Did anyone hear Cael say this to the ref during the 197 final yesterday because he wouldn't call stalling?
Some interesting comments on the mat about this subject-
http://forums.themat.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=360036 (http://forums.themat.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=360036)
Thoughts?
They're right, I was yelling at the TV throughout the finals and my dad looks at me and says, then go ask a ref. Ok, Spartan, inappropriate term03? Why don't they call blatant stalling? Nelson took one shot in around 9 minutes and blocked the rest of the time. The Indiana wrestler took at least 9 shots thought the match and was blocked for most of the time. This is why I love freestyle over this form of wrestling.
Also, Delgado should have been penalized as well. TOTALLY stalled and knew he had riding time so why not just keep putting yourself in a potentially dangerous position. Horrible to watch!
The really sad thing is that I'll bet these guys are SOOOOO fun to watch in the wrestling room where they take chances. Just another reason people who don't wrestle hate the sport and just don't get it. I love the sport but some of these matches made me sick. I watched all the finals but only saw wrestling about 15% of the time. The rest was pushing and running.
Not that this can happen but there have to be some standardization of stalling. even some of the obvious ones did not get called this weekend (running off the mat); on belly and the guy gets up and bottom does not move; on the ankle...
There must be someway to help the guys in strips to standardize and help them make a good call for top, bottom, and on the feet.
How about bottom man gets cut and gets to his feet while top man pushes him and he refuses to turn around and allows himself to get pushed out 20 feet and is still down..... ? ::)
dude had ample time and chance to turn and face his opponent.
I keep saying they need to reward aggressiveness rather than penalize stalling as it is easier. Give a point for every shot that ends up in a stalemate- reward the agressor. Go as far as giving a point to any wrestler that shoots and gets his hands locked around an opponents thigh but can't finish- this would have helped the Indiana wrestling in the HWT match as he was wrestling where Nelson did not wrestle at all.
It is easier to score and win by being less aggressive and winning some scrambles or using defense.
You can still lose by being aggressive. The Penn St wrestler at 197 in the finals shot with 7 seconds left in double overtime and fell flat and lost the match. He could have waited for tiebreakers.
In another question for the refs out there. Could Graff have been called for fleeing in the 3rd period when he just kept trying to get out of bounds for a re-start?
I, for one, and sick death of watching the top guy dropping down and hanging on a leg.
I said this on the OpenMat forum:
Make locking hands around a leg when riding a technical violation the same as locking hands around the body.
Quote from: whatever on March 10, 2014, 04:30:48 PM
I, for one, and sick death of watching the top guy dropping down and hanging on a leg.
I said this on the OpenMat forum:
Make locking hands around a leg when riding a technical violation the same as locking hands around the body.
Great rule!
Maybe it should be a rule you cannot win a match without getting a takedown, reversal, or back points?
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 10, 2014, 04:35:22 PM
Quote from: whatever on March 10, 2014, 04:30:48 PM
I, for one, and sick death of watching the top guy dropping down and hanging on a leg.
I said this on the OpenMat forum:
Make locking hands around a leg when riding a technical violation the same as locking hands around the body.
Great rule!
Maybe it should be a rule you cannot win a match without getting a takedown, reversal, or back points?
That would be fun.
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 10, 2014, 04:12:14 PM
In another question for the refs out there. Could Graff have been called for fleeing in the 3rd period when he just kept trying to get out of bounds for a re-start?
No such thing as fleeing anymore. It's simply a stalling call now.
Quote from: whatever on March 10, 2014, 04:30:48 PM
I, for one, and sick death of watching the top guy dropping down and hanging on a leg.
I said this on the OpenMat forum:
Make locking hands around a leg when riding a technical violation the same as locking hands around the body.
I like this. I think most of us get tired of this legal stalling tactic.
Quote from: Badger_Fan on March 10, 2014, 05:16:12 PM
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 10, 2014, 04:12:14 PM
In another question for the refs out there. Could Graff have been called for fleeing in the 3rd period when he just kept trying to get out of bounds for a re-start?
No such thing as fleeing anymore. It's simply a stalling call now.
But they didn't call that either
Quote from: imwi on March 10, 2014, 07:23:50 PM
Quote from: Badger_Fan on March 10, 2014, 05:16:12 PM
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 10, 2014, 04:12:14 PM
In another question for the refs out there. Could Graff have been called for fleeing in the 3rd period when he just kept trying to get out of bounds for a re-start?
No such thing as fleeing anymore. It's simply a stalling call now.
But they didn't call that either
Would he have done anything differently had they been in the center? I contend no. Therefore, no stalling.
Doc to answer your question If Tyler would have kicked free and ended up completely out of bounds he would have been called for stalling, Fleeing does not exist in college anymore it is just a stalling call.
Manty, when you ref wrestlers at this level and you are on the mat you can appreciate how tactical the entire match is. While Chiflant from Indiana was shooting, Nelson defended those shots and they were deep shots. But he never got one of them finished. In Ramos match with Graff, Tyler only had on serious shot and almost completed it, he needs to push the pace on him to get that call, as for the hanging on the ankles I agree with Whatever, but we are instructed to call it the way you were seeing it. I personally would have called a stalemate earlier and then the second time he dropped down you can call a stalling.
I love reading some of the posts on here but until you step on that mat and have to make those calls it is easier said than done. It is easy to sit in the stands and pontificate on how you would do it or how you think it should be done, it is quite different when you are the one under the gun and have Cael, or Brands Breathing down your neck.
Look at how many video reviews there were in the tournament. I went home and watched the Graff Ramos match cause I was sure he had the takedown, and from the other angle he lost the hip rite before they hit the mat. No takedown.
I will say this the officials on the mat on Saturday and Sunday did a great job, you can't even imagine the pressure they are under in this tournament. Remember they make the calls in a slit second and then have to hold it up through scrutiny of video review. It is not like high school you look at it with the assistant official and it has to hold up.
Quote from: Spartan on March 11, 2014, 08:27:56 PM
Doc to answer your question If Tyler would have kicked free and ended up completely out of bounds he would have been called for stalling, Fleeing does not exist in college anymore it is just a stalling call.
Manty, when you ref wrestlers at this level and you are on the mat you can appreciate how tactical the entire match is. While Chiflant from Indiana was shooting, Nelson defended those shots and they were deep shots. But he never got one of them finished. In Ramos match with Graff, Tyler only had on serious shot and almost completed it, he needs to push the pace on him to get that call, as for the hanging on the ankles I agree with Whatever, but we are instructed to call it the way you were seeing it. I personally would have called a stalemate earlier and then the second time he dropped down you can call a stalling.
I love reading some of the posts on here but until you step on that mat and have to make those calls it is easier said than done. It is easy to sit in the stands and pontificate on how you would do it or how you think it should be done, it is quite different when you are the one under the gun and have Cael, or Brands Breathing down your neck.
Look at how many video reviews there were in the tournament. I went home and watched the Graff Ramos match cause I was sure he had the takedown, and from the other angle he lost the hip rite before they hit the mat. No takedown.
I will say this the officials on the mat on Saturday and Sunday did a great job, you can't even imagine the pressure they are under in this tournament. Remember they make the calls in a slit second and then have to hold it up through scrutiny of video review. It is not like high school you look at it with the assistant official and it has to hold up.
A ton of respect for your analysis of the situations, Spartan. Been there.
I'm just impressed Spartan used the word pontificate! :D
LOL ! We just had a Mr. Rogers moment with the Concretekid. " Can you say Pontificate kids?" Nice try !
Quote from: woody53 on March 11, 2014, 08:57:40 PM
LOL ! We just had a Mr. Rogers moment with the Concretekid. " Can you say Pontificate kids?" Nice try !
I knew you could! Dang, someone stole my sneakers!
Quote from: imnofish on March 11, 2014, 09:14:35 PM
Quote from: woody53 on March 11, 2014, 08:57:40 PM
LOL ! We just had a Mr. Rogers moment with the Concretekid. " Can you say Pontificate kids?" Nice try !
I knew you could! Dang, someone stole my sneakers!
We are so warped !
Quote from: woody53 on March 11, 2014, 09:17:10 PM
Quote from: imnofish on March 11, 2014, 09:14:35 PM
Quote from: woody53 on March 11, 2014, 08:57:40 PM
LOL ! We just had a Mr. Rogers moment with the Concretekid. " Can you say Pontificate kids?" Nice try !
I knew you could! Dang, someone stole my sneakers!
We are so warped !
;D Mr. McFeely, is that you? Speedy delivery?
Quote from: Concretekid on March 11, 2014, 08:52:03 PM
I'm just impressed Spartan used the word pontificate! :D
It's because he went to the Harvard of DII, baby! ;)