I'm curious what others think, does a hypothetical challenger exist to Cael at PSU?
I'm assuming a current challenger doesn't exist in the foreseeable future, for example Brands at Iowa, Ryan at Ohio State, etc. The gap is only growing and my opinion is that PSU's only competition is past and future PSU teams.
So what about a hypothetical? Is there a coach/college combination that could fund raise, recruit, and develop enough to catch PSU. Coaches could include Steiber, Taylor, Dake, Burroughs, Metcalf, Askren, Cox, Cormier, Snyder, etc. Colleges could include Ohio State, Michigan, Iowa, Oklahoma State, Arizona State, Wisconsin, etc.
I'll throw out a couple:
1. Ben Askren at Wisconsin
2. David Taylor to Iowa
3. Kyle Dake to Michigan
4. Kyle Snyder to Ohio State
Ben is obviously a great coach, but does he have the juice to re-start a moribound program with the worst practice facility known to man?
If Bono only lived up to his promises when he took the job, UW would be that challenger. Bono said he'd close the borders if he got the job. Now if UW had KOT, Keckeisen, Mesenbrink, Sinclair, Buchanan, Hopke, Mirasola, Mirasola etc., we'd be as good as any team not named Penn State. C'mon Bono live up to your word and no more excuses.
Quote from: BadgerOne on April 30, 2024, 04:39:43 PMIf Bono only lived up to his promises when he took the job, UW would be that challenger. Bono said he'd close the borders if he got the job. Now if UW had KOT, Keckeisen, Mesenbrink, Sinclair, Buchanan, Hopke, Mirasola, Mirasola etc., we'd be as good as any team not named Penn State. C'mon Bono live up to your word and no more excuses.
If it were only that simple...
All you need is a rich backer, convince them to support college wrestling if they aren't fans already and let them pick the coach:
Elon Musk and other wealthy Stanford alums, Stanford
Phil Knight, Oregon State
Warren Buffet, Nebraska
Walton family, Little Rock
Of course Wisconsin has its share of wealthy people who Bono should be wining and dining: John Menard, Diane Hendricks, Judy Faulkner, James Cargill, Helen Johnson-Leipold, Curtis Johnson, Fisk Johnson, Richard & Elizabeth Uihlein, Herb Kohl
Jump Around!
Herb Kohl might be a tough sell, as he's dead and all, but you never know.
Quote from: BadgerOne on April 30, 2024, 07:24:23 PMAll you need is a rich backer, convince them to support college wrestling if they aren't fans already and let them pick the coach:
Elon Musk and other wealthy Stanford alums, Stanford
Phil Knight, Oregon State
Warren Buffet, Nebraska
Walton family, Little Rock
Of course Wisconsin has its share of wealthy people who Bono should be wining and dining: John Menard, Diane Hendricks, Judy Faulkner, James Cargill, Helen Johnson-Leipold, Curtis Johnson, Fisk Johnson, Richard & Elizabeth Uihlein, Herb Kohl
Jump Around!
Sure - simple.
Let me ask, assume that you were a very rich UW alum and the crew coach (or pick any sport that has not seen the light of day for a number of years and one that you have never seen nor paid attention to) showed up on your door step and asks you for $5M to support the program. That $5M could buy a great crew coach and possibly push UW crew into the top five programs in the nation. They would even name the crew boat house after you! I know, hard to say no, isn't it? ::) Do you really think that there is anything they could say to get $5M from you? That's how the typical person looks at wrestling.
I am absolutely sure that at least one person (probably more) in the UW athletic department's sole job is to locate rich potential benefactors for the athletic program. Locating such messiah is no easy task and then getting them on board is even harder. I suspect the pecking order is that the AD department identifies a prospect and gets close and then brings in the coach to sell the program. I think it is very unlikely that the coach is the one tapping such donors on the shoulder - coaches haven't been trained in those skills.
Quote from: Ghetto on April 30, 2024, 08:15:30 PMHerb Kohl might be a tough sell, as he's dead and all, but you never know.
I guess I forget that, but might make Bono's sell job easier :P
I don't think money alone can get you to the top (yet). It can get you in the conversation for 2nd, but it is still just a tool to recruit people, which is the key. Facilities, academic notoriety, etc., they are all just tools to recruit people. However to contend with PSU/NLWC, you need leadership that can convince people they can achieve the highest of goals under their guidance. I still think that is the #1 tool to recruit the very best and PSU/NLWC is the proof. It starts with the one right person in the right place.
What rjchev141 said is on the nuts dead on. Couldn't agree more.
Quote from: rjchev141 on April 30, 2024, 10:12:56 PMI don't think money alone can get you to the top (yet). It can get you in the conversation for 2nd, but it is still just a tool to recruit people, which is the key. Facilities, academic notoriety, etc., they are all just tools to recruit people. However to contend with PSU/NLWC, you need leadership that can convince people they can achieve the highest of goals under their guidance. I still think that is the #1 tool to recruit the very best and PSU/NLWC is the proof. It starts with the one right person in the right place.
Penn State boosters would agree!
Has anyone contacted John Menard or Diane Hendricks?
Quote from: BadgerOne on April 30, 2024, 07:24:23 PMAll you need is a rich backer, convince them to support college wrestling if they aren't fans already and let them pick the coach:
Elon Musk and other wealthy Stanford alums, Stanford
Phil Knight, Oregon State
Warren Buffet, Nebraska
Walton family, Little Rock
Of course Wisconsin has its share of wealthy people who Bono should be wining and dining: John Menard, Diane Hendricks, Judy Faulkner, James Cargill, Helen Johnson-Leipold, Curtis Johnson, Fisk Johnson, Richard & Elizabeth Uihlein, Herb Kohl
Jump Around!
Elon didn't go to Stanford (he applied, but never entered) and Phil Night went to Oregon. Also, Herb Kohl would be a long shot LOL.
Quote from: Ledger on May 01, 2024, 07:55:00 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on April 30, 2024, 07:24:23 PMAll you need is a rich backer, convince them to support college wrestling if they aren't fans already and let them pick the coach:
Elon Musk and other wealthy Stanford alums, Stanford
Phil Knight, Oregon State
Warren Buffet, Nebraska
Walton family, Little Rock
Of course Wisconsin has its share of wealthy people who Bono should be wining and dining: John Menard, Diane Hendricks, Judy Faulkner, James Cargill, Helen Johnson-Leipold, Curtis Johnson, Fisk Johnson, Richard & Elizabeth Uihlein, Herb Kohl
Jump Around!
Elon didn't go to Stanford (he applied, but never entered) and Phil Night went to Oregon. Also, Herb Kohl would be a long shot LOL.
Elon did attend Stanford but dropped out after two days. :P The only D1 wrestling program in Oregon is Oregon State. Herb died without any spouse or children, and not too long ago. Bono should have schmoozed Herb and become besties with him instead of going on 100 mile jog/walkathon and UW could have a nice spanking new Herb Kohl wrestling center in the works.
I would venture a guess that a lot of the shmoozing the athletic department is doing right now is specifically for money for football and basketball money to keep UW in the black in the new age of college athletics. If those programs aren't healthy, the whole athletic department suffers.
Quote from: BadgerOne on May 01, 2024, 09:25:10 AMQuote from: Ledger on May 01, 2024, 07:55:00 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on April 30, 2024, 07:24:23 PMAll you need is a rich backer, convince them to support college wrestling if they aren't fans already and let them pick the coach:
Elon Musk and other wealthy Stanford alums, Stanford
Phil Knight, Oregon State
Warren Buffet, Nebraska
Walton family, Little Rock
Of course Wisconsin has its share of wealthy people who Bono should be wining and dining: John Menard, Diane Hendricks, Judy Faulkner, James Cargill, Helen Johnson-Leipold, Curtis Johnson, Fisk Johnson, Richard & Elizabeth Uihlein, Herb Kohl
Jump Around!
Elon didn't go to Stanford (he applied, but never entered) and Phil Night went to Oregon. Also, Herb Kohl would be a long shot LOL.
Elon did attend Stanford but dropped out after two days. :P The only D1 wrestling program in Oregon is Oregon State. Herb died without any spouse or children, and not too long ago. Bono should have schmoozed Herb and become besties with him instead of going on 100 mile jog/walkathon and UW could have a nice spanking new Herb Kohl wrestling center in the works.
Badger One your comments are entertaining but a little out of touch. Nice talk with little understanding of the reality of college athletics. Any big time donor would be contacted by the AD of external affairs office and would be "schmoozed" to give money to 4-5 other sports before wrestling. What wrestling needs is a big time donor that has some interest and/or connection to wrestling!
This conversation keeps steering toward money first. I'm making the argument that money is a secondary priority. Iowa is the proof. They seem to focus on the money, which in turn helps them recruit people focused on money, instead of reaching the top.
Another example, when UW leadership's priorities align with mine, I'll start contributing again.
Quote from: BadgerOne on April 30, 2024, 04:39:43 PMIf Bono only lived up to his promises when he took the job, UW would be that challenger. Bono said he'd close the borders if he got the job. Now if UW had KOT, Keckeisen, Mesenbrink, Sinclair, Buchanan, Hopke, Mirasola, Mirasola etc., we'd be as good as any team not named Penn State. C'mon Bono live up to your word and no more excuses.
I think this ignores Bono's inability to develop talent that we have or have gotten. I am not confident that we would be in a much different spot even if we had landed half of those guys.
Money is #1 priority first.
Need a facility
Need a coach
Need to pay the wrestlers
Paying wrestlers might even be at the top if you look at basketball. If you had a son would you recommend he attend Penn St where he might have the best change at a national title or would you send up to Other St University where they will pay you $400,000 more? Everyone in basketball is taking the cash. Now wrestling will likely never get to those levels where one school can pay that much more than another but if it does kids would be stupid not to take the money. Especially in a sport that has no professional ranks.
UW wrestling needs basketball success and football success to even consider having a future.
Just a thought. I have heard Ben Askren has done well with his MMA career and such. Has anyone reached put to Ben about being a possible "bigger" donor for Wisconsin wrestling? Bet he has made more than some of the regular monthy donors?
I think one of Bono's flaws is that he thinks he can take any kid who has some wrestling skill, put him through Bono's bootcamp, and brainwash him into believing he is a champion. Bono's training is very old school, except for his belief that hypnotizing kids is game changing, but he is not like Cael or Ben in his development philosophy. Working harder has diminishing returns and you need to recruit or develop talent.
Quote from: BadgerOne on April 30, 2024, 04:39:43 PMIf Bono only lived up to his promises when he took the job, UW would be that challenger. Bono said he'd close the borders if he got the job. Now if UW had KOT, Keckeisen, Mesenbrink, Sinclair, Buchanan, Hopke, Mirasola, Mirasola etc., we'd be as good as any team not named Penn State. C'mon Bono live up to your word and no more excuses.
Every new coach would like to "close the borders" and get the top talent in their state but that is not realistic. The top HS football player in the state of Wisconsin committed to Notre Dame, Mr. Basketball in the state over the last few years has gone to Duke and or North Carolina. Heck Cael couldn't land Spencer Lee in PA and we all know that haven't had great success at 125. Come on Fickell, Gard and Sanderson (to name a few), live up to your word, no more excuses!!
Quote from: Healthy and happy on May 02, 2024, 07:30:22 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on April 30, 2024, 04:39:43 PMIf Bono only lived up to his promises when he took the job, UW would be that challenger. Bono said he'd close the borders if he got the job. Now if UW had KOT, Keckeisen, Mesenbrink, Sinclair, Buchanan, Hopke, Mirasola, Mirasola etc., we'd be as good as any team not named Penn State. C'mon Bono live up to your word and no more excuses.
Every new coach would like to "close the borders" and get the top talent in their state but that is not realistic. The top HS football player in the state of Wisconsin committed to Notre Dame, Mr. Basketball in the state over the last few years has gone to Duke and or North Carolina. Heck Cael couldn't land Spencer Lee in PA and we all know that haven't had great success at 125. Come on Fickell, Gard and Sanderson (to name a few), live up to your word, no more excuses!!
I wasn't talking about what every coach "would like to" do, but what a coach actually said. Bono said he'd close the borders, along with turning the program into a top 5 program that would compete for trophies and apparently somebody believed this as the UW hired him over all other applicants, who I believe included both Damian Hahn and Ben Askren. So whoever believed Bono's slick sales job made a ridiculously stupid decision. There is such a thing as accountability. It's even more stupid that UW extended Bono after he has overpromised and underdelivered. And I believe Bono is set to make over $2 million for swinging and missing on nearly every high end recruit from the state. Wisconsin has plenty of money to burn. Its not UW's lack of money which has plunged them into this mess, but their basic stupidity.
Quote from: BadgerOne on May 02, 2024, 09:39:46 AMQuote from: Healthy and happy on May 02, 2024, 07:30:22 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on April 30, 2024, 04:39:43 PMIf Bono only lived up to his promises when he took the job, UW would be that challenger. Bono said he'd close the borders if he got the job. Now if UW had KOT, Keckeisen, Mesenbrink, Sinclair, Buchanan, Hopke, Mirasola, Mirasola etc., we'd be as good as any team not named Penn State. C'mon Bono live up to your word and no more excuses.
Every new coach would like to "close the borders" and get the top talent in their state but that is not realistic. The top HS football player in the state of Wisconsin committed to Notre Dame, Mr. Basketball in the state over the last few years has gone to Duke and or North Carolina. Heck Cael couldn't land Spencer Lee in PA and we all know that haven't had great success at 125. Come on Fickell, Gard and Sanderson (to name a few), live up to your word, no more excuses!!
I wasn't talking about what every coach "would like to" do, but what a coach actually said. Bono said he'd close the borders, along with turning the program into a top 5 program that would compete for trophies and apparently somebody believed this as the UW hired him over all other applicants, who I believe included both Damian Hahn and Ben Askren. So whoever believed Bono's slick sales job made a ridiculously stupid decision. There is such a thing as accountability. It's even more stupid that UW extended Bono after he has overpromised and underdelivered. And I believe Bono is set to make over $2 million for swinging and missing on nearly every high end recruit from the state. Wisconsin has plenty of money to burn. Its not UW's lack of money which has plunged them into this mess, but their basic stupidity.
When you are part of a major college sports program and the flagship University in your state,
like UW Madison, you have fans/boosters/donators/alumni who want to see the top HS talent in the state stay home ("close the borders") and play where the fans can follow/watch them. All coaches in the department understand this! All coaches also know that getting the top HS talent will not necessarily happen each and every year. Bono just happened to say it out loud. Somehow you have to make a widely known and accepted practice in college athletics and turn it into a negative.
Quote from: Healthy and happy on May 03, 2024, 01:27:47 PMQuote from: BadgerOne on May 02, 2024, 09:39:46 AMQuote from: Healthy and happy on May 02, 2024, 07:30:22 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on April 30, 2024, 04:39:43 PMIf Bono only lived up to his promises when he took the job, UW would be that challenger. Bono said he'd close the borders if he got the job. Now if UW had KOT, Keckeisen, Mesenbrink, Sinclair, Buchanan, Hopke, Mirasola, Mirasola etc., we'd be as good as any team not named Penn State. C'mon Bono live up to your word and no more excuses.
Every new coach would like to "close the borders" and get the top talent in their state but that is not realistic. The top HS football player in the state of Wisconsin committed to Notre Dame, Mr. Basketball in the state over the last few years has gone to Duke and or North Carolina. Heck Cael couldn't land Spencer Lee in PA and we all know that haven't had great success at 125. Come on Fickell, Gard and Sanderson (to name a few), live up to your word, no more excuses!!
I wasn't talking about what every coach "would like to" do, but what a coach actually said. Bono said he'd close the borders, along with turning the program into a top 5 program that would compete for trophies and apparently somebody believed this as the UW hired him over all other applicants, who I believe included both Damian Hahn and Ben Askren. So whoever believed Bono's slick sales job made a ridiculously stupid decision. There is such a thing as accountability. It's even more stupid that UW extended Bono after he has overpromised and underdelivered. And I believe Bono is set to make over $2 million for swinging and missing on nearly every high end recruit from the state. Wisconsin has plenty of money to burn. Its not UW's lack of money which has plunged them into this mess, but their basic stupidity.
When you are part of a major college sports program and the flagship University in your state,
like UW Madison, you have fans/boosters/donators/alumni who want to see the top HS talent in the state stay home ("close the borders") and play where the fans can follow/watch them. All coaches in the department understand this! All coaches also know that getting the top HS talent will not necessarily happen each and every year. Bono just happened to say it out loud. Somehow you have to make a widely known and accepted practice in college athletics and turn it into a negative.
So you are saying we should just ignore what Bono promises or says? Should UW sign Bono to a lifetime contract?
Bono's promises mean nothing. He's a good used car salesman and nothing more. He cant and hasnt backed up anything he said or promised when he was hired. That wont change anytime soon and his record of past performance is very indicative of future performance. "Next year" is gonna be a long long long year. We will see how many of you guys in love with him are still on board after the pathetic showing to come next year. I tell it like it is and if someone dont like it tough.
Quote from: BadgerOne on May 03, 2024, 02:26:24 PMQuote from: Healthy and happy on May 03, 2024, 01:27:47 PMQuote from: BadgerOne on May 02, 2024, 09:39:46 AMQuote from: Healthy and happy on May 02, 2024, 07:30:22 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on April 30, 2024, 04:39:43 PMIf Bono only lived up to his promises when he took the job, UW would be that challenger. Bono said he'd close the borders if he got the job. Now if UW had KOT, Keckeisen, Mesenbrink, Sinclair, Buchanan, Hopke, Mirasola, Mirasola etc., we'd be as good as any team not named Penn State. C'mon Bono live up to your word and no more excuses.
Every new coach would like to "close the borders" and get the top talent in their state but that is not realistic. The top HS football player in the state of Wisconsin committed to Notre Dame, Mr. Basketball in the state over the last few years has gone to Duke and or North Carolina. Heck Cael couldn't land Spencer Lee in PA and we all know that haven't had great success at 125. Come on Fickell, Gard and Sanderson (to name a few), live up to your word, no more excuses!!
I wasn't talking about what every coach "would like to" do, but what a coach actually said. Bono said he'd close the borders, along with turning the program into a top 5 program that would compete for trophies and apparently somebody believed this as the UW hired him over all other applicants, who I believe included both Damian Hahn and Ben Askren. So whoever believed Bono's slick sales job made a ridiculously stupid decision. There is such a thing as accountability. It's even more stupid that UW extended Bono after he has overpromised and underdelivered. And I believe Bono is set to make over $2 million for swinging and missing on nearly every high end recruit from the state. Wisconsin has plenty of money to burn. Its not UW's lack of money which has plunged them into this mess, but their basic stupidity.
When you are part of a major college sports program and the flagship University in your state,
like UW Madison, you have fans/boosters/donators/alumni who want to see the top HS talent in the state stay home ("close the borders") and play where the fans can follow/watch them. All coaches in the department understand this! All coaches also know that getting the top HS talent will not necessarily happen each and every year. Bono just happened to say it out loud. Somehow you have to make a widely known and accepted practice in college athletics and turn it into a negative.
So you are saying we should just ignore what Bono promises or says? Should UW sign Bono to a lifetime contract?
as typical, your missing the point. We all understand you have a major axe the grind. My point, that you turned into a negative is that all college coaches would love to keep the top HS talent in the state at home. Nothing more, nothing less
Quote from: Healthy and happy on May 04, 2024, 08:01:20 PMQuote from: BadgerOne on May 03, 2024, 02:26:24 PMQuote from: Healthy and happy on May 03, 2024, 01:27:47 PMQuote from: BadgerOne on May 02, 2024, 09:39:46 AMQuote from: Healthy and happy on May 02, 2024, 07:30:22 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on April 30, 2024, 04:39:43 PMIf Bono only lived up to his promises when he took the job, UW would be that challenger. Bono said he'd close the borders if he got the job. Now if UW had KOT, Keckeisen, Mesenbrink, Sinclair, Buchanan, Hopke, Mirasola, Mirasola etc., we'd be as good as any team not named Penn State. C'mon Bono live up to your word and no more excuses.
Every new coach would like to "close the borders" and get the top talent in their state but that is not realistic. The top HS football player in the state of Wisconsin committed to Notre Dame, Mr. Basketball in the state over the last few years has gone to Duke and or North Carolina. Heck Cael couldn't land Spencer Lee in PA and we all know that haven't had great success at 125. Come on Fickell, Gard and Sanderson (to name a few), live up to your word, no more excuses!!
I wasn't talking about what every coach "would like to" do, but what a coach actually said. Bono said he'd close the borders, along with turning the program into a top 5 program that would compete for trophies and apparently somebody believed this as the UW hired him over all other applicants, who I believe included both Damian Hahn and Ben Askren. So whoever believed Bono's slick sales job made a ridiculously stupid decision. There is such a thing as accountability. It's even more stupid that UW extended Bono after he has overpromised and underdelivered. And I believe Bono is set to make over $2 million for swinging and missing on nearly every high end recruit from the state. Wisconsin has plenty of money to burn. Its not UW's lack of money which has plunged them into this mess, but their basic stupidity.
When you are part of a major college sports program and the flagship University in your state,
like UW Madison, you have fans/boosters/donators/alumni who want to see the top HS talent in the state stay home ("close the borders") and play where the fans can follow/watch them. All coaches in the department understand this! All coaches also know that getting the top HS talent will not necessarily happen each and every year. Bono just happened to say it out loud. Somehow you have to make a widely known and accepted practice in college athletics and turn it into a negative.
So you are saying we should just ignore what Bono promises or says? Should UW sign Bono to a lifetime contract?
as typical, your missing the point. We all understand you have a major axe the grind. My point, that you turned into a negative is that all college coaches would love to keep the top HS talent in the state at home. Nothing more, nothing less
There is no point to miss!
Quote from: BadgerOne on May 04, 2024, 08:12:07 PMQuote from: Healthy and happy on May 04, 2024, 08:01:20 PMQuote from: BadgerOne on May 03, 2024, 02:26:24 PMQuote from: Healthy and happy on May 03, 2024, 01:27:47 PMQuote from: BadgerOne on May 02, 2024, 09:39:46 AMQuote from: Healthy and happy on May 02, 2024, 07:30:22 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on April 30, 2024, 04:39:43 PMIf Bono only lived up to his promises when he took the job, UW would be that challenger. Bono said he'd close the borders if he got the job. Now if UW had KOT, Keckeisen, Mesenbrink, Sinclair, Buchanan, Hopke, Mirasola, Mirasola etc., we'd be as good as any team not named Penn State. C'mon Bono live up to your word and no more excuses.
Every new coach would like to "close the borders" and get the top talent in their state but that is not realistic. The top HS football player in the state of Wisconsin committed to Notre Dame, Mr. Basketball in the state over the last few years has gone to Duke and or North Carolina. Heck Cael couldn't land Spencer Lee in PA and we all know that haven't had great success at 125. Come on Fickell, Gard and Sanderson (to name a few), live up to your word, no more excuses!!
I wasn't talking about what every coach "would like to" do, but what a coach actually said. Bono said he'd close the borders, along with turning the program into a top 5 program that would compete for trophies and apparently somebody believed this as the UW hired him over all other applicants, who I believe included both Damian Hahn and Ben Askren. So whoever believed Bono's slick sales job made a ridiculously stupid decision. There is such a thing as accountability. It's even more stupid that UW extended Bono after he has overpromised and underdelivered. And I believe Bono is set to make over $2 million for swinging and missing on nearly every high end recruit from the state. Wisconsin has plenty of money to burn. Its not UW's lack of money which has plunged them into this mess, but their basic stupidity.
When you are part of a major college sports program and the flagship University in your state,
like UW Madison, you have fans/boosters/donators/alumni who want to see the top HS talent in the state stay home ("close the borders") and play where the fans can follow/watch them. All coaches in the department understand this! All coaches also know that getting the top HS talent will not necessarily happen each and every year. Bono just happened to say it out loud. Somehow you have to make a widely known and accepted practice in college athletics and turn it into a negative.
So you are saying we should just ignore what Bono promises or says? Should UW sign Bono to a lifetime contract?
as typical, your missing the point. We all understand you have a major axe the grind. My point, that you turned into a negative is that all college coaches would love to keep the top HS talent in the state at home. Nothing more, nothing less
There is no point to miss!
When you lack a good understanding of the subject,that is an understandable response
Quote from: Healthy and happy on May 05, 2024, 08:56:48 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on May 04, 2024, 08:12:07 PMQuote from: Healthy and happy on May 04, 2024, 08:01:20 PMQuote from: BadgerOne on May 03, 2024, 02:26:24 PMQuote from: Healthy and happy on May 03, 2024, 01:27:47 PMQuote from: BadgerOne on May 02, 2024, 09:39:46 AMQuote from: Healthy and happy on May 02, 2024, 07:30:22 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on April 30, 2024, 04:39:43 PMIf Bono only lived up to his promises when he took the job, UW would be that challenger. Bono said he'd close the borders if he got the job. Now if UW had KOT, Keckeisen, Mesenbrink, Sinclair, Buchanan, Hopke, Mirasola, Mirasola etc., we'd be as good as any team not named Penn State. C'mon Bono live up to your word and no more excuses.
Every new coach would like to "close the borders" and get the top talent in their state but that is not realistic. The top HS football player in the state of Wisconsin committed to Notre Dame, Mr. Basketball in the state over the last few years has gone to Duke and or North Carolina. Heck Cael couldn't land Spencer Lee in PA and we all know that haven't had great success at 125. Come on Fickell, Gard and Sanderson (to name a few), live up to your word, no more excuses!!
I wasn't talking about what every coach "would like to" do, but what a coach actually said. Bono said he'd close the borders, along with turning the program into a top 5 program that would compete for trophies and apparently somebody believed this as the UW hired him over all other applicants, who I believe included both Damian Hahn and Ben Askren. So whoever believed Bono's slick sales job made a ridiculously stupid decision. There is such a thing as accountability. It's even more stupid that UW extended Bono after he has overpromised and underdelivered. And I believe Bono is set to make over $2 million for swinging and missing on nearly every high end recruit from the state. Wisconsin has plenty of money to burn. Its not UW's lack of money which has plunged them into this mess, but their basic stupidity.
When you are part of a major college sports program and the flagship University in your state,
like UW Madison, you have fans/boosters/donators/alumni who want to see the top HS talent in the state stay home ("close the borders") and play where the fans can follow/watch them. All coaches in the department understand this! All coaches also know that getting the top HS talent will not necessarily happen each and every year. Bono just happened to say it out loud. Somehow you have to make a widely known and accepted practice in college athletics and turn it into a negative.
So you are saying we should just ignore what Bono promises or says? Should UW sign Bono to a lifetime contract?
as typical, your missing the point. We all understand you have a major axe the grind. My point, that you turned into a negative is that all college coaches would love to keep the top HS talent in the state at home. Nothing more, nothing less
There is no point to miss!
When you lack a good understanding of the subject,that is an understandable response
To borrow a phrase from our good friend Ben, don't be a dummy!
There is a reason Bono said he would keep the borders closed and get in state kids to come to Wisconsin. There was a belief that Barry didn't do a good enough job of landing the top in state talent. So Bono saying he would close the borders holds more weight than normal. Making the statement and not following through is failing. Some would say that in state recruiting has gotten worse under Bono.
Some of you make it sound like Bono has not offered the elite Wisconsin guys. If wrestlers choose other universities that is not all on Bono. It takes both sides.
Quote from: Numbers on May 05, 2024, 06:30:19 PMSome of you make it sound like Bono has not offered the elite Wisconsin guys. If wrestlers choose other universities that is not all on Bono. It takes both sides.
I think most people have been pretty clear that the frustration is Bono not signing the Wisconsin elite kids. Isn't about not offering. Nothing will change with Bono at the helm. If I was a Wisconsin kid I wouldn't be looking at the Badger program.
Quote from: Barou on May 06, 2024, 08:06:11 AMQuote from: Numbers on May 05, 2024, 06:30:19 PMSome of you make it sound like Bono has not offered the elite Wisconsin guys. If wrestlers choose other universities that is not all on Bono. It takes both sides.
I think most people have been pretty clear that the frustration is Bono not signing the Wisconsin elite kids. Isn't about not offering. Nothing will change with Bono at the helm. If I was a Wisconsin kid I wouldn't be looking at the Badger program.
Can you expand on the why you would choose not to go to UW because of Bono at the helm?
Quote from: Numbers on May 05, 2024, 06:30:19 PMSome of you make it sound like Bono has not offered the elite Wisconsin guys. If wrestlers choose other universities that is not all on Bono. It takes both sides.
There are stories all over the place that Bono and staff haven't even once contacted, let alone talk to some of the elite wrestlers. I also hear that is to bad because when Bono sits down and the kitchen table he talks well.
Quote from: bigoil on May 06, 2024, 08:50:33 AMQuote from: Barou on May 06, 2024, 08:06:11 AMQuote from: Numbers on May 05, 2024, 06:30:19 PMSome of you make it sound like Bono has not offered the elite Wisconsin guys. If wrestlers choose other universities that is not all on Bono. It takes both sides.
I think most people have been pretty clear that the frustration is Bono not signing the Wisconsin elite kids. Isn't about not offering. Nothing will change with Bono at the helm. If I was a Wisconsin kid I wouldn't be looking at the Badger program.
Can you expand on the why you would choose not to go to UW because of Bono at the helm?
Over the past few years I think all of the reasons have been stated to the point of kicking a dead horse.
Quote from: hammer on May 06, 2024, 12:43:19 PMQuote from: bigoil on May 06, 2024, 08:50:33 AMQuote from: Barou on May 06, 2024, 08:06:11 AMQuote from: Numbers on May 05, 2024, 06:30:19 PMSome of you make it sound like Bono has not offered the elite Wisconsin guys. If wrestlers choose other universities that is not all on Bono. It takes both sides.
I think most people have been pretty clear that the frustration is Bono not signing the Wisconsin elite kids. Isn't about not offering. Nothing will change with Bono at the helm. If I was a Wisconsin kid I wouldn't be looking at the Badger program.
Can you expand on the why you would choose not to go to UW because of Bono at the helm?
Over the past few years I think all of the reasons have been stated to the point of kicking a dead horse.
Asking Barou his reason.
Interesting, we have a potential challenger, David Taylor to Oklahoma State!
I bet the guys in the portal are reaching out to Okie St vs the other way around right now. Congratulations Magic Man!
Quote from: rjchev141 on May 06, 2024, 09:41:37 PMInteresting, we have a potential challenger, David Taylor to Oklahoma State!
Crazy how his plans changed on a dime. I assume he thought he would be in Paris this summer and now he is in Stillwater in May. I am also assuming he is done competing but maybe not.
It will be interesting to see what transfers they will bring in now. I would think he will garner some big time transfers and recruits immediately.
Is anyone happier than DJ Hamiti today? I'm guessing he had no idea this was in the works, and now he gets to work with/under one of the greats.
DT to Stillwater and suddenly I'm a cowboys fan. Hoping the magicman can sink State College. The fate of NCAA wrestling depends on it!!
Go Pokes ;D
As fans we aways want to see kids go to your favorite school.
But it is a business decision for the Student Athlete!!!
Who has the best offer to get your education?
Who has the best financial package?
Who has the best system to get you to your goals?
Who has the best RTC plan and potential income (if you are a top talent)
Who has the best Donors?
Who has the best facilities?
Who has the best job networking?
I think most of you are over exaggerating the Askren vs Bono beaf when it comes to why these young men choose where they go. The Student Athletes are looking for the best opportunity whether it home or away. Loyalty to a letter on a jersey is for fans not athletes.
Loyalty is a driving factor for Adults, Opportunities should be the only driving factor for kids.
Quote from: No One Cares on May 07, 2024, 09:01:21 PMQuote from: factfinder on May 07, 2024, 06:30:56 PMAs fans we aways want to see kids go to your favorite school.
But it is a business decision for the Student Athlete!!!
Who has the best offer to get your education?
Who has the best financial package?
Who has the best system to get you to your goals?
Who has the best RTC plan and potential income (if you are a top talent)
Who has the best Donors?
Who has the best facilities?
Who has the best job networking?
I think most of you are over exaggerating the Askren vs Bono beaf when it comes to why these young men choose where they go. The Student Athletes are looking for the best opportunity whether it home or away. Loyalty to a letter on a jersey is for fans not athletes.
Loyalty is a driving factor for Adults, Opportunities should be the only driving factor for kids.
Lol. Stick to the guillotine forum. You moved from here long ago.
Not sure of the back story but I thought it was a honest post to what future recruits think and go through.
UW is a very good school to get an education from. Very hard to get in also. UW has a great atmosphere of get togetherness, lots of opportunities for college age students to to. With that said it comes done to as an athlete, how you feel the coaching staff is going to help you reach the athletes goals. Teammates also factor in on this also to some degree. UW may not be a good fit for some, maybe some of the athletes just want to get away from their home also and not be a short distance away.
Quote from: wrestle_4ever on May 07, 2024, 01:48:05 PMDT to Stillwater and suddenly I'm a cowboys fan. Hoping the magicman can sink State College. The fate of NCAA wrestling depends on it!!
Go Pokes ;D
Not sure if this helps college wrestling or just continues to separate the haves from the have nots. Reports are that DT is receiving a million dollar salary, a new facility and a boat full of NIL money. Apparently Chad Richison is behind it. He is a billionaire former Central Oklahoma college wrestler who has joined the giving pledge.
Quote from: vsmf2010 on May 08, 2024, 04:24:23 PMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on May 07, 2024, 01:48:05 PMDT to Stillwater and suddenly I'm a cowboys fan. Hoping the magicman can sink State College. The fate of NCAA wrestling depends on it!!
Go Pokes ;D
Not sure if this helps college wrestling or just continues to separate the haves from the have nots. Reports are that DT is receiving a million dollar salary, a new facility and a boat full of NIL money. Apparently Chad Richison is behind it. He is a billionaire former Central Oklahoma college wrestler who has joined the giving pledge.
Have you seen the Central Oklahoma wrestling facility and sports facility that Chad Richison has donated to at UCO? Now if he is on board at Okie State maybe now they can have the best facility in Oklahoma. Cannt hurt wrestling having a billionaire on board!
Quote from: hammer on May 09, 2024, 07:11:25 AMQuote from: vsmf2010 on May 08, 2024, 04:24:23 PMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on May 07, 2024, 01:48:05 PMDT to Stillwater and suddenly I'm a cowboys fan. Hoping the magicman can sink State College. The fate of NCAA wrestling depends on it!!
Go Pokes ;D
Not sure if this helps college wrestling or just continues to separate the haves from the have nots. Reports are that DT is receiving a million dollar salary, a new facility and a boat full of NIL money. Apparently Chad Richison is behind it. He is a billionaire former Central Oklahoma college wrestler who has joined the giving pledge.
Have you seen the Central Oklahoma wrestling facility and sports facility that Chad Richison has donated to at UCO? Now if he is on board at Okie State maybe now they can have the best facility in Oklahoma. Cannt hurt wrestling having a billionaire on board!
"Cannt hurt wrestling having a billionaire on board!" - Famous last words.
Quote from: Ledger on May 09, 2024, 07:50:33 AMQuote from: hammer on May 09, 2024, 07:11:25 AMQuote from: vsmf2010 on May 08, 2024, 04:24:23 PMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on May 07, 2024, 01:48:05 PMDT to Stillwater and suddenly I'm a cowboys fan. Hoping the magicman can sink State College. The fate of NCAA wrestling depends on it!!
Go Pokes ;D
Not sure if this helps college wrestling or just continues to separate the haves from the have nots. Reports are that DT is receiving a million dollar salary, a new facility and a boat full of NIL money. Apparently Chad Richison is behind it. He is a billionaire former Central Oklahoma college wrestler who has joined the giving pledge.
Have you seen the Central Oklahoma wrestling facility and sports facility that Chad Richison has donated to at UCO? Now if he is on board at Okie State maybe now they can have the best facility in Oklahoma. Cannt hurt wrestling having a billionaire on board!
"Cannt hurt wrestling having a billionaire on board!" - Famous last words.
This man does alot for Oklahoma wrestling in general. Sure it doesn't bode well for others but I cannt knock a person for supporting what he loves.
Quote from: bigoil on May 06, 2024, 02:27:59 PMQuote from: hammer on May 06, 2024, 12:43:19 PMQuote from: bigoil on May 06, 2024, 08:50:33 AMQuote from: Barou on May 06, 2024, 08:06:11 AMQuote from: Numbers on May 05, 2024, 06:30:19 PMSome of you make it sound like Bono has not offered the elite Wisconsin guys. If wrestlers choose other universities that is not all on Bono. It takes both sides.
I think most people have been pretty clear that the frustration is Bono not signing the Wisconsin elite kids. Isn't about not offering. Nothing will change with Bono at the helm. If I was a Wisconsin kid I wouldn't be looking at the Badger program.
Can you expand on the why you would choose not to go to UW because of Bono at the helm?
Over the past few years I think all of the reasons have been stated to the point of kicking a dead horse.
Asking Barou his reason.
Well a few things I'd say. 1.) The trajectory of the program is not good. I would think even the biggest Bono supporters would share that observation. As it stands right now I would say PSU is more likely to have more national champions than UW has national qualifiers. 2.) The failure of the RTC. Again, I think the biggest supporters can make the observation that the RTC has been managed poorly. 3.) Way better options. I can't say definitively that Bono has character issues but they've certainly been called into question. Askren never really gets into detail how things went south there but something happened and right, wrong, or otherwise there are a lot of people that trust Askren's judgment. Probably doesn't hurt that Askren is a way more visible figure than Bono. Doug Schwab, Brian Smith, Cael Sanderson, David Taylor, etc appear to be high character guys. I wouldn't think twice about sending my kid to be part of Doug Schwab's program. Do you think the same can be said about Bono? Fortunately for Bono and his supporters McCintosh and UW don't care about wrestling. Unless Bono can pull some magic out of the transfer portal UW is looking to have their worst year in over a decade.
I'm not saying the UM does or doesn't care about wrestling, but curious as to the "why's" people think that they don't? Seems like McIntosh goes to the matches. They gave Bono a high paying contract. I get the wrestling room isn't the greatest but I heard there are plans for that when they redo the football "stuff". And the UW "sticking with" Bono doesn't mean they don't care about wrestling, but rather he really hasn't screwed up too bad at this point to just fire him with no plan in place. I also believe if there was a chance the Badgers could get a David Taylor type head coach, and the UW had the financial backing to pay him and the wrestlers, I truly believe the UW would do so. At the same time I have a hard time believing the UW is hurting for money.
My $0.02 for UW to even begin to compete with the Penn St.s, OKST's, etc....UW needs to bring in a big-name DT type coach, build the wrestling facility sooner than later, make amends with the Askren's (ex. hire one of them), and keep the AWA and other club kids in state at all costs.
Quote from: dman on May 09, 2024, 10:58:19 AMI'm not saying the UM does or doesn't care about wrestling, but curious as to the "why's" people think that they don't? Seems like McIntosh goes to the matches. They gave Bono a high paying contract. I get the wrestling room isn't the greatest but I heard there are plans for that when they redo the football "stuff". And the UW "sticking with" Bono doesn't mean they don't care about wrestling, but rather he really hasn't screwed up too bad at this point to just fire him with no plan in place. I also believe if there was a chance the Badgers could get a David Taylor type head coach, and the UW had the financial backing to pay him and the wrestlers, I truly believe the UW would do so. At the same time I have a hard time believing the UW is hurting for money.
My $0.02 for UW to even begin to compete with the Penn St.s, OKST's, etc....UW needs to bring in a big-name DT type coach, build the wrestling facility sooner than later, make amends with the Askren's (ex. hire one of them), and keep the AWA and other club kids in state at all costs.
IMO the UW admin and fan base do support the wrestling program. Until recently (David Taylor, et al), Bono and his staff were one of the highest paid coaching staffs in D1 wrestling. While the RTC appears to be doing very very little in regards to NIL, senior level development and overall anything it is right in the middle of financially funded RTCs year in and year out.
I would assume it is the responsibility of Bono and the the admin to locate the big whale type donors and that is a big part of what is missing. If UW-Eau Claire athletic dept can find one so can Badger wrestling.
https://www.uwec.edu/finance-administration/county-materials-complex/
Another example is what Little Rock has done in a state with NO wrestling history in just 5 years. Think they were .5 points from Badgers at nationals, did not lose anyone to the portal and actually picked up a couple portal kids. This article should be used as the template on how to build (or re--build) a program. It a pretty impressive story.
https://armoneyandpolitics.com/greg-hatcher-arkansas-wrestling/
Agree with what is being said by Barry, dman and asdf.
If you look at badger wrestling aside from the room, which is the same room many of us went to camp in 40+ years ago the other facilities and amenities UW brings are right up there. They fly to meets, World class lifting literally outside the wrestling room, nutritionist, and strength and conditioning. A former wrestler as an AD.
RTC transparency needs to improve no doubt.
Ok state has it figured out. Now they hire Fix to run their RTC.
Gilman coming over from NLWC was smart on DTs part. Yin to Yang
Oklahoma State is back.
After watching the Oklahoma State press conference, I think a legitimate contender now exists. David Taylor is the right person and Oklahoma State is the right place. At a bare minimum, it will be exciting to follow them. This is good for wrestling!
I only hope we see more of this after the Olympics and World Championships later this year. Dake to Iowa would be interesting for sure. Maybe not the right fit, but Dake would be another game changer and Iowa has everything else (tradition, money, facilities, etc).
Does anyone think Askren to Wisconsin is on this same level? Yes Wisconsin is missing a lot and it would be a long shot with the amount of things that would need to happen, but this combination actually has potential (just look at the team score post AWA consistently shares on social media from NCAA and UWW qualifier events). Bringing in a couple RTC athletes (AWA alum), bringing in a couple portal transfers (AWA alum), flipping a couple commitments, actually securing the borders, and creating PNL pipeline to WI. If this happened, I can guarantee one thing, I would be actively supporting again. Things like filling the field house, securing new donors, kids wearing Badger Wrestling t-shirts again; these things might actually happen. On the flip side, unfortunately what we do know, none of this happens in the current scenario.
I think David was the best thing to do for the program as a whole. While I feel for Scott, the program is always bigger than an individual. This is also what college wrestling needs as the rivalries with Penn St. and Iowa are going to be quite intense. I'm interested to see if there are going to be any commitment changes and how the portal shakes out. I would imagine DJ redshirts this year and wins a Natty in '26
Quote from: charteroak1 on May 13, 2024, 10:07:15 AMI think David was the best thing to do for the program as a whole. While I feel for Scott, the program is always bigger than an individual. This is also what college wrestling needs as the rivalries with Penn St. and Iowa are going to be quite intense. I'm interested to see if there are going to be any commitment changes and how the portal shakes out. I would imagine DJ redshirts this year and wins a Natty in '26
Why would DJ redshirt? There's no easy route for him. If he waits until '26 he'd probably have to move up to 174. If he competes in '25 at 165, and wins, it would not look good for Bono. If he waits until '26 and stays at 165 he'd have to get through Messenbrink.
Quote from: charteroak1 on May 13, 2024, 10:07:15 AMI think David was the best thing to do for the program as a whole. While I feel for Scott, the program is always bigger than an individual. This is also what college wrestling needs as the rivalries with Penn St. and Iowa are going to be quite intense. I'm interested to see if there are going to be any commitment changes and how the portal shakes out. I would imagine DJ redshirts this year and wins a Natty in '26
A little birdie told me that we shouldn't feel bad for Coleman Scott. Sometimes you dig your own hole. He was the air apparent, until he wasn't.
Pivoting to DT is a much bigger move than Coleman Scott. Coleman Scott isn't relevant with kids who are graduating now.
Who else is on this plain and at the same age? THIS is the future of NCAA wrestling, for better or for worse.
Dake
Maybe Spencer Lee, but his career internationally isn't on par at the senior level
Burroughs
I'm sure there are a few more that fit the bill, but not quite on the GOAT list.
Quote from: Ghetto on May 13, 2024, 11:02:11 AMQuote from: charteroak1 on May 13, 2024, 10:07:15 AMI think David was the best thing to do for the program as a whole. While I feel for Scott, the program is always bigger than an individual. This is also what college wrestling needs as the rivalries with Penn St. and Iowa are going to be quite intense. I'm interested to see if there are going to be any commitment changes and how the portal shakes out. I would imagine DJ redshirts this year and wins a Natty in '26
A little birdie told me that we shouldn't feel bad for Coleman Scott. Sometimes you dig your own hole. He was the air apparent, until he wasn't.
Pivoting to DT is a much bigger move than Coleman Scott. Coleman Scott isn't relevant with kids who are graduating now.
Who else is on this plain and at the same age? THIS is the future of NCAA wrestling, for better or for worse.
Dake
Maybe Spencer Lee, but his career internationally isn't on par at the senior level
Burroughs
I'm sure there are a few more that fit the bill, but not quite on the GOAT list.
If you're going of what he's won, then DT is behind Dake, Burroughs, and Snyder for credentials. Then behind Lee at the same point in their careers.
Burroughs - 3x NCAA champ, 7x World/Olympic champ, beat DT at 2014 World team trials
Dake - 4x NCAA champ (beat DT 2x including NCAA finals), 4x World champ, beat DT at three different World/Olympic trials
Snyder - 3x NCAA champ, 4x World/Olympic champ, 1x Junior World champ
Taylor - 2x NCAA champ, 4x World/Olympic champ
Lee - 3x NCAA champ, 2x Junior World champ, 1x Cadet World champ - by the same age DT had never made a national team and wouldn't for another three years, so Spencer very well could be on the path to the same or better international career
So yes DT is big time and he's enormously popular, but it's not as if he's the GOAT.
I don't think David Taylor is the GOAT. I didn't know what to call the elite list.
Snyder for sure is on that upper tier. Wonder if he'd want to get into coaching.
Quote from: oregoncy on May 13, 2024, 03:18:21 PMQuote from: Ghetto on May 13, 2024, 11:02:11 AMQuote from: charteroak1 on May 13, 2024, 10:07:15 AMI think David was the best thing to do for the program as a whole. While I feel for Scott, the program is always bigger than an individual. This is also what college wrestling needs as the rivalries with Penn St. and Iowa are going to be quite intense. I'm interested to see if there are going to be any commitment changes and how the portal shakes out. I would imagine DJ redshirts this year and wins a Natty in '26
A little birdie told me that we shouldn't feel bad for Coleman Scott. Sometimes you dig your own hole. He was the air apparent, until he wasn't.
Pivoting to DT is a much bigger move than Coleman Scott. Coleman Scott isn't relevant with kids who are graduating now.
Who else is on this plain and at the same age? THIS is the future of NCAA wrestling, for better or for worse.
Dake
Maybe Spencer Lee, but his career internationally isn't on par at the senior level
Burroughs
I'm sure there are a few more that fit the bill, but not quite on the GOAT list.
If you're going of what he's won, then DT is behind Dake, Burroughs, and Snyder for credentials. Then behind Lee at the same point in their careers.
Burroughs - 3x NCAA champ, 7x World/Olympic champ, beat DT at 2014 World team trials
Dake - 4x NCAA champ (beat DT 2x including NCAA finals), 4x World champ, beat DT at three different World/Olympic trials
Snyder - 3x NCAA champ, 4x World/Olympic champ, 1x Junior World champ
Taylor - 2x NCAA champ, 4x World/Olympic champ
Lee - 3x NCAA champ, 2x Junior World champ, 1x Cadet World champ - by the same age DT had never made a national team and wouldn't for another three years, so Spencer very well could be on the path to the same or better international career
So yes DT is big time and he's enormously popular, but it's not as if he's the GOAT.
This is just the top of the list of accomplishments from 2013-2024 for USA.
Compare that to a list from 2000-2012. What a difference!
Quote from: Numbers on May 14, 2024, 08:56:25 AMQuote from: oregoncy on May 13, 2024, 03:18:21 PMQuote from: Ghetto on May 13, 2024, 11:02:11 AMQuote from: charteroak1 on May 13, 2024, 10:07:15 AMI think David was the best thing to do for the program as a whole. While I feel for Scott, the program is always bigger than an individual. This is also what college wrestling needs as the rivalries with Penn St. and Iowa are going to be quite intense. I'm interested to see if there are going to be any commitment changes and how the portal shakes out. I would imagine DJ redshirts this year and wins a Natty in '26
A little birdie told me that we shouldn't feel bad for Coleman Scott. Sometimes you dig your own hole. He was the air apparent, until he wasn't.
Pivoting to DT is a much bigger move than Coleman Scott. Coleman Scott isn't relevant with kids who are graduating now.
Who else is on this plain and at the same age? THIS is the future of NCAA wrestling, for better or for worse.
Dake
Maybe Spencer Lee, but his career internationally isn't on par at the senior level
Burroughs
I'm sure there are a few more that fit the bill, but not quite on the GOAT list.
If you're going of what he's won, then DT is behind Dake, Burroughs, and Snyder for credentials. Then behind Lee at the same point in their careers.
Burroughs - 3x NCAA champ, 7x World/Olympic champ, beat DT at 2014 World team trials
Dake - 4x NCAA champ (beat DT 2x including NCAA finals), 4x World champ, beat DT at three different World/Olympic trials
Snyder - 3x NCAA champ, 4x World/Olympic champ, 1x Junior World champ
Taylor - 2x NCAA champ, 4x World/Olympic champ
Lee - 3x NCAA champ, 2x Junior World champ, 1x Cadet World champ - by the same age DT had never made a national team and wouldn't for another three years, so Spencer very well could be on the path to the same or better international career
So yes DT is big time and he's enormously popular, but it's not as if he's the GOAT.
This is just the top of the list of accomplishments from 2013-2024 for USA.
Compare that to a list from 2000-2012. What a difference!
If this is supposed to be some kind of GOAT list, I am more impressed with Gable Steveson's career than Spencer Lee and I think Logan Stieber who was a 4-time NCAA champ should be on it if Lee makes the list.
Second time: I don't think DT, Lee, etc are the GOAT
LET ME TRY THIS AGAIN.
That was a list of possible end of their wrestling career in the next few years that possibly would want to venture into coaching and have some name recognition to young wrestlers coming up now.
Seemed like a long name for a list.
Which means I don't think Lees international career will be long due to having no ACLs left.