Pennsylvania had 16 and New Jersey had 9. Not a single All-American is a native of Wisconsin. That fact alone displays why to be successful UW why the majority of recruits have to come from out of state.
The success from WI kids has been non existent since Dieringer. It has been a tough stretch for sure. Hopefully with the increased excitement Bono has created in the state, as well as Askren, things will pick up.
Bo Nickal scored 27 points at the NCAA Tournament, the same number of points the Badgers team scored.
While most people would readily admit that UW needs to recruit out of state, to use this one year to make your argument that the majority of the team needs to be out of state kids is not accurate
.
Look at the current crop of Wisconsin HS juniors and seniors and tell me that Wisconsin as a state will continue to get shut out at the NCAAs 3 or 4 years from now.......
Quote from: billymurphy on March 23, 2019, 09:13:27 PM
Bo Nickal scored 27 points at the NCAA Tournament, the same number of points the Badgers team scored.
Bo returns zero points next year!
The number of D1 NCAA qualifiers from Wisconsin WILL be increasing. But how many will gain AA status?
Quote from: billymurphy on March 23, 2019, 09:13:27 PM
Bo Nickal scored 27 points at the NCAA Tournament, the same number of points the Badgers team scored.
And he's from Texas, a state that doesn't even get many AAs.
Quote from: Numbers on March 23, 2019, 09:58:40 PM
The number of D1 NCAA qualifiers from Wisconsin WILL be increasing. But how many will gain AA status?
I would tell you but I can't seem to find my crystal ball right now.....
Quote from: whatever on March 23, 2019, 09:22:55 PM
While most people would readily admit that UW needs to recruit out of state, to use this one year to make your argument that the majority of the team needs to be out of state kids is not accurate
.
Look at the current crop of Wisconsin HS juniors and seniors and tell me that Wisconsin as a state will continue to get shut out at the NCAAs 3 or 4 years from now.......
Has a kid from WI been an AA any of the last 3 years? If there has been, I am not remembering. At this point, even next year the best potential for AA's are Martin, Mocco, Breske, Krattiger, Dow, Joles, or Barnett. Not sure we will get one next year either, but it would be great to see.
I agree there are guys in high school right now that seem to have a good chance to AA in the future. Hope it happens.
this is pretty cool
http://intermatwrestle.com/articles/21741?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook
This is kind of silly and stupid without showing the other side. How about showing us how many top 10 kids, top 20 kids, top 50 kids, or top 100 kids did not become all-americans. Just as many have failed as have exceeded I would imagine.
Only one champion had been ranked #1 during his HS senior season.
Quote from: imnofish on March 27, 2019, 12:50:30 AM
Only one champion had been ranked #1 during his HS senior season.
To clarify, those are not individual weight rankings in high school, that is overall. If you go by individual weight ranking in high school, several were champions.
The wrestlers ranked number one overall by year were:
Gable Steveson (2018) - lost by 2 seconds of riding time to the champ as a true freshman at heavyweight. elite.
Spencer Lee (2017) - Good chance to be a 4 time champ
Mark Hall (2016) - has finished 1st, 2nd, 2nd (finishing 2nd to arguably one of the best wrestlers in college who was ranked at #3 overall in 2015)
Anthony Valencia (2015) - was ranked ahead of Zahid. Took a redshirt this year. Has been having to make a big cut to make lineup with brother, which I think has hurt his performance. Still an AA level wrestler
There were only 4 in college right now as Kyle Snyder was ranked #1 in 2014 and didnt redshirt. Over the last 5 years, the only one who has really not lived up to the hype has been Anthony, but his brother has more than made up for that.
Recruiting the top guys is extremely important (obviously some flame out). I think Bono, Reader, McDonough, and Askren will have a lot more pull with the top recruits than the previous staff.
So 67 of the 80 all americans were ranked in the top 100 of their recruiting class.
That is over 4-5 recruiting classes so 400 wrestlers. So in reality 67 of 400 (top 100) wrestlers became all-americans. I am sure there are plenty that redshirted or were out injured, etc but still matters.
I agree 100% that getting top wrestlers/talent in your room is the key and this staff will be much better at that.
My point is more that even with top 50 wrestlers it is still a bit of a crapshoot as to who becomes all-americans because it is dang hard to become an all-american. That is a huge accomplishment and reward for a ton of hard work and dedication
coaching them once they get there may make a difference? I think we are in a good place now.
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 27, 2019, 08:55:09 AM
So 67 of the 80 all americans were ranked in the top 100 of their recruiting class.
That is over 4-5 recruiting classes so 400 wrestlers. So in reality 67 of 400 (top 100) wrestlers became all-americans. I am sure there are plenty that redshirted or were out injured, etc but still matters.
I agree 100% that getting top wrestlers/talent in your room is the key and this staff will be much better at that.
My point is more that even with top 50 wrestlers it is still a bit of a crapshoot as to who becomes all-americans because it is dang hard to become an all-american. That is a huge accomplishment and reward for a ton of hard work and dedication
None of this changes the fact that not a single Wisconsin kid, ranked in the top 100, or not ranked in the top 100, has been on the podium in the last 3 years. That does not speak well to the overall quality of wrestling in our State recently.
Quote from: 1Iota on March 27, 2019, 09:59:22 AM
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 27, 2019, 08:55:09 AM
So 67 of the 80 all americans were ranked in the top 100 of their recruiting class.
That is over 4-5 recruiting classes so 400 wrestlers. So in reality 67 of 400 (top 100) wrestlers became all-americans. I am sure there are plenty that redshirted or were out injured, etc but still matters.
I agree 100% that getting top wrestlers/talent in your room is the key and this staff will be much better at that.
My point is more that even with top 50 wrestlers it is still a bit of a crapshoot as to who becomes all-americans because it is dang hard to become an all-american. That is a huge accomplishment and reward for a ton of hard work and dedication
None of this changes the fact that not a single Wisconsin kid, ranked in the top 100, or not ranked in the top 100, has been on the podium in the last 3 years. That does not speak well to the overall quality of wrestling in our State recently.
It speaks to the top end only. The best of the best AA in college. We've had some very good kids in the recent past. We just haven't produced a Dieringer type kid in a while. We forget that those kids are special talents.
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 27, 2019, 08:55:09 AM
So 67 of the 80 all americans were ranked in the top 100 of their recruiting class.
That is over 4-5 recruiting classes so 400 wrestlers. So in reality 67 of 400 (top 100) wrestlers became all-americans. I am sure there are plenty that redshirted or were out injured, etc but still matters.
I agree 100% that getting top wrestlers/talent in your room is the key and this staff will be much better at that.
My point is more that even with top 50 wrestlers it is still a bit of a crapshoot as to who becomes all-americans because it is dang hard to become an all-american. That is a huge accomplishment and reward for a ton of hard work and dedication
It is astounding how many people fail to recognize just how hard it is to accomplish that feat. So many great wrestlers never even qualify for nationals.
Not sure if this has been stated or not, but maybe we don't focus enough on folkstyle in the offseason...maybe the WWF has to re-examine what the larger percent of kids is going to do once they graduate high school-wrestle freestyle/greco in attempts to make national and world teams or wrestle collegiate style. Then the WWF can build a program around the masses. I would think their are more collegiate style wrestlers out there then Freestyle/Greco. This might address the reason why WI kids aren't high when it comes to college results.
I firmly believe that the way to build a better and better wrestler no matter the level is through quality practice partners.
Many youth programs, high school teams and even college programs lack quality partners for their best wrestlers.
Clubs are starting to fill that void with getting more high level wrestlers in one place more often but not all have means or geographic access. The Milwaukee metro area is producing a lot more quality wrestlers than they have in the past and I think that is due to quality clubs with great coaching and many kids working out together. Even at the youth level
Off-season workouts are a great way to find quality practice partners although like has been said a lot of that is freestyle and greco but I don't think that is much different than other states.
Quote from: Luke Louison on March 27, 2019, 11:02:27 AM
Your point, that a high recruiting ranking doesn't guarantee you success, is noted.
That doesn't conflict with the fact that you're much more likely to have success as a highly ranked wrestler than as an unheralded recruit.
Extrapolating a Badger game plan, start by recruiting more high pedigree guys than you need and let the cream rise.
Every college coach has known that for 100 years and every college coach has tried to do that. Do you feel like there are coaches that don't want to recruit top wrestlers? ::)
Quote from: mkm13 on March 23, 2019, 05:56:22 PM
The success from WI kids has been non existent since Dieringer. It has been a tough stretch for sure. Hopefully with the increased excitement Bono has created in the state, as well as Askren, things will pick up.
Lol
It's basically 2 All Americans in the past 9-10 years counting Monk. Askren runs a great show as do several other clubs in the state. But every state has 2-6 great clubs now. Askren has been around for about 8 years now, two full cycles of HS wrestlers, "Clubs alone can't fix this"
The wi clubs are the only life support wi wrestling has, to catch up to the rest of the Midwest (we will never catch the east coast) the WIAA needs a leadership change and a cultural change. The WIAA needs to go from leaning always towards rules and accountability to easing up on coaches that are willing to work with there wrestlers and get rid of suppressing rules like 7&7, along with many other issues.
Wisconsin won't catch up ever until the WIAA allows it to along with the coaches association finding a way to stop spinning its wheels. We have been behind forever we just had our heads in the sand, track and Flo have just finally put a light on it. On a side note Football and basketball are in worse shape then wrestling in the state of Wisconsin.
Only the WIAA can fix this!!
If that all changed WI could compete in the next 5-8 years.
Quote from: factfinder on March 27, 2019, 04:13:25 PM
Quote from: mkm13 on March 23, 2019, 05:56:22 PM
The success from WI kids has been non existent since Dieringer. It has been a tough stretch for sure. Hopefully with the increased excitement Bono has created in the state, as well as Askren, things will pick up.
Lol
It's basically 2 All Americans in the past 9-10 years counting Monk. Askren runs a great show as do several other clubs in the state. But every state has 2-6 great clubs now. Askren has been around for about 8 years now, two full cycles of HS wrestlers, "Clubs alone can't fix this"
The wi clubs are the only life support wi wrestling has, to catch up to the rest of the Midwest (we will never catch the east coast) the WIAA needs a leadership change and a cultural change. The WIAA needs to go from leaning always towards rules and accountability to easing up on coaches that are willing to work with there wrestlers and get rid of suppressing rules like 7&7, along with many other issues.
Wisconsin won't catch up ever until the WIAA allows it to along with the coaches association finding a way to stop spinning its wheels. We have been behind forever we just had our heads in the sand, track and Flo have just finally put a light on it. On a side note Football and basketball are in worse shape then wrestling in the state of Wisconsin.
Only the WIAA can fix this!!
If that all changed WI could compete in the next 5-8 years.
I certainly don't agree that basketball is in worse shape from the stand point of producing talent. Wisconsin HS basketball has never in it's history had kids ranked nationally as high as it has the last few years. The State of Wisconsin currently has the number 3 and number 80 ranked player nationally for the class of 2020, it has the number 2 and number 5 ranked player in 2021. This follows last season when SEC Frosh of they year Tyler Herro was an in state player.
Quote from: factfinder on March 27, 2019, 04:13:25 PM
Quote from: mkm13 on March 23, 2019, 05:56:22 PM
The success from WI kids has been non existent since Dieringer. It has been a tough stretch for sure. Hopefully with the increased excitement Bono has created in the state, as well as Askren, things will pick up.
Lol
It's basically 2 All Americans in the past 9-10 years counting Monk. Askren runs a great show as do several other clubs in the state. But every state has 2-6 great clubs now. Askren has been around for about 8 years now, two full cycles of HS wrestlers, "Clubs alone can't fix this"
The wi clubs are the only life support wi wrestling has, to catch up to the rest of the Midwest (we will never catch the east coast) the WIAA needs a leadership change and a cultural change. The WIAA needs to go from leaning always towards rules and accountability to easing up on coaches that are willing to work with there wrestlers and get rid of suppressing rules like 7&7, along with many other issues.
Wisconsin won't catch up ever until the WIAA allows it to along with the coaches association finding a way to stop spinning its wheels. We have been behind forever we just had our heads in the sand, track and Flo have just finally put a light on it. On a side note Football and basketball are in worse shape then wrestling in the state of Wisconsin.
Only the WIAA can fix this!!
If that all changed WI could compete in the next 5-8 years.
Yes I agree that the WIAA has to change some things in order for wrestling to get a boost.
7 and 7 has to go. leave it up to the schools what is best for the growth of their own team. The less than stellar programs have huge ebs and flows and there will be up years and down years so they need to adjust to them.
go away from conference tournaments or regionals. same tournament just different weekends.
I like the MN/PA way of seeding and giving points to the wrestlers during the year to help with this. makes for less FF hopefully and probably increases the use of JV on varisity also.
encourage more college kids to get back into coaching at any level. I realize that wisconsin pay for coaches is a district thing but when you compare the wages of coaches from state to state you see a huge dip when you get to wisconsin. look up coaching wages in Minnesota. not un common to see 10-20K for a coach at the bigger or better schools. I really doubt there is many or just maybe a couple in Wisconsin in schools that hit the 10K mark and that is with booster money.
I know so little about basketball because I really dont care about it. I do know that football in wisconsin is suffering a increasing attendence rate amoung athletes. so I doubt the WIAA really cares about any sport because their cash cow is drying up in football.
also I just read that Wisconsin football is in the bottom 1/3 of the nation in college kids from wisconsin. I know every publication is subject to how they twist things but still football in wisconsin just isnt jumping off the books nationally any more.
I do think overall the talent pool in wisconsin is getting richer. There seems to be alot more interest nationally with more wisconsin kids.
the east side is doing very well
the south east is seemingly doing alot better with help from AWA
dont know much about the south west so I will be quiet.
west side is sneaky pretty good but with the help of some local clubs like crass and revolution and the twin cities clubs that area is putting out some pretty good kids.
central wisconsin is doing well. lots of tough kids coming out of there. tough kids may not win individual state titles but they make for some really tough teams that are very good.
I think wisconsin is starting to rock that national door. just going to have to take someone to kick that sucker door and say "we are here!"
I predict right now that this cycle will be blown up. Maybe I am optimistic or maybe naive, but I feel the group soon to be in college or the group there now will break through. I think in the next 5 years WI will have multiple AA. (Barnett, O'toole, Keckisein, VanManan, Bianchi's, Wichman, Medora, Otto, Mocco, Raschka, Bohn, Schulist, Somalai, Breske, Martin, Dow, Krattiger, Schoenherr and actually more that names are escaping me) One or more of these kids will AA. Does this still put us behind PA and some other states, yes, but its trending the right way IMO.
Quote from: kmoc33 on March 28, 2019, 09:01:30 AM
I predict right now that this cycle will be blown up. Maybe I am optimistic or maybe naive, but I feel the group soon to be in college or the group there now will break through. I think in the next 5 years WI will have multiple AA. (Barnett, O'toole, Keckisein, VanManan, Bianchi's, Wichman, Medora, Otto, Mocco, Raschka, Bohn, Schulist, Somalai, Breske, Martin, Dow, Krattiger, Schoenherr and actually more that names are escaping me) One or more of these kids will AA. Does this still put us behind PA and some other states, yes, but its trending the right way IMO.
Agreed! I feel like the volume of D1 guys has gone up a lot for the state of Wisconsin. A big key is to get guys in the starting lineup as well. How many guys were Wisconsin native starters this year? Breske, Lantz, Martin, Reinhardt, and Thorton(I am may be missing a couple). Before we get a ton of AAs we need to get guys who are starters and national qualifiers. This year we had 5 starting guys, 3 national qualifiers, and 0 all americans.
A few more starters were VanManan, Robb Lee, Model most of the year, 195 kid at MN. I think the slinger kid at Davidson. But I completely agree with you, the more starters the better the chances.
I forgot to mention Keaton Kluever in my previous post, sorry, I know he reads this forum. :)
Quote from: kmoc33 on March 28, 2019, 12:38:50 PM
A few more starters were VanManan, Robb Lee, Model most of the year, 195 kid at MN. I think the slinger kid at Davidson. But I completely agree with you, the more starters the better the chances.
I forgot to mention Keaton Kluever in my previous post, sorry, I know he reads this forum. :)
Thanks! I knew I was missing some.
It certainly seems that the amount of Wisconsin HS wrestlers on D1 rosters has grown greatly and maybe also the reason why our D3 programs seem to be having fewer all-americans
The minnesota197 pounder is Dylan Anderson of Hudson. Also state of Wi.had 4 qualifiers. Jackson Hamauer at Fresno st.
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 28, 2019, 01:06:19 PM
It certainly seems that the amount of Wisconsin HS wrestlers on D1 rosters has grown greatly and maybe also the reason why our D3 programs seem to be having fewer all-americans
I think you are spot on!! D1 programs are bringing on 5-6 more kids per team as room guys, Wisconsin is sending up room guys that could be D1 and maybe D2 All Americans. I know schools like Augsburg (D3) are getting a lot of 2x state champs so its hard for the WI D3 programs to keep up.