I don't understand?

missinghome · December 24, 2015, 10:32:49 PM

How can the Badgers keep getting so much in state talent year after year but cannot get that talent to the next level? They have some of Wisconsin's finest to ever step on a high school mat their right now and they can't even crack the line up on this team? I don't understand?

imnofish · December 24, 2015, 10:41:36 PM

It's tough to crack the starting lineup at this level, especially with so much talent coming in from other states. Then, a winning record can be elusive for the best of them. Heck, look at the Badgers' guy at 125; he was an absolute high school stud, back in Illinois. Right now, he's taking his lumps. Illinois is loaded with high school talent, but their kids aren't dominating the college ranks, either.

billymurphy · December 25, 2015, 06:26:58 AM

Dieringer went to Oklahoma State. He did not seem to have much trouble trying to crack the lineup there and the last I checked,
cracking Wisconsin's lineup in theory should be easier to crack.

imnofish · December 25, 2015, 10:35:52 AM

Quote from: billymurphy on December 25, 2015, 06:26:58 AM
Dieringer went to Oklahoma State. He did not seem to have much trouble trying to crack the lineup there and the last I checked,
cracking Wisconsin's lineup in theory should be easier to crack.

Had he gone to Madison, he would be in Wisconsin's lineup, too. Again, we are talking individual talent. I don't get the assertion that somehow Barry should be expected to get the local talent into the lineup. Do we want Wisconsin to have the best possible team, or not?

stp · December 25, 2015, 10:59:03 AM

Quote from: missinghome on December 24, 2015, 10:32:49 PM
How can the Badgers keep getting so much in state talent year after year but cannot get that talent to the next level? They have some of Wisconsin's finest to ever step on a high school mat their right now and they can't even crack the line up on this team? I don't understand?

Maybe because the Wisconsin in-state talent isn't as good compared to other parts of the country?

Ivan Stankowski · December 25, 2015, 11:12:35 AM

Quote from: stp on December 25, 2015, 10:59:03 AM
Quote from: missinghome on December 24, 2015, 10:32:49 PM
How can the Badgers keep getting so much in state talent year after year but cannot get that talent to the next level? They have some of Wisconsin's finest to ever step on a high school mat their right now and they can't even crack the line up on this team? I don't understand?

Maybe because the Wisconsin in-state talent isn't as good compared to other parts of the country?

Nope!!

MNbadger · December 25, 2015, 12:24:20 PM

Are you agreeing with stp or disagreeing?

billymurphy · December 25, 2015, 12:52:12 PM

I watched nearly every single Dieringer Fargo match, National Duals matches, state matches and his matches to make the world teams.
My dad and I both honestly thought he would be a four time NCAA champion. My health is no longer great so I have to rely on the computer or tv to
watch any matches now.

It is my opinion that Coach Davis never has had a good grasp on Wisconsin high school talent, but now that Brandvold is there,
I no longer have to worry about that because it is pretty obvious he does. And quite frankly, Ben Askren has also clearly demonstrated
that his knowledge is superior when picking out the states top talent.

stp · December 25, 2015, 02:02:22 PM

Quote from: Ivan Stankowski on December 25, 2015, 11:12:35 AM
Quote from: stp on December 25, 2015, 10:59:03 AM
Quote from: missinghome on December 24, 2015, 10:32:49 PM
How can the Badgers keep getting so much in state talent year after year but cannot get that talent to the next level? They have some of Wisconsin's finest to ever step on a high school mat their right now and they can't even crack the line up on this team? I don't understand?

Maybe because the Wisconsin in-state talent isn't as good compared to other parts of the country?

Nope!!

I wish we had a sarcastic font. Ohio State doesn't always get all of the best from instate PSU has the same thing with Pennsylvania. We can list lots of states who lose supposed blue chip talent. Even sometimes that expected blue chip talent can't make it at the next level. Being a student athlete in college is not easy...

mkm13 · December 25, 2015, 05:36:10 PM

None of our current wrestlers from Wisconsin had much success at the national level while in high school. They all struggled in national tournaments against future D1 college wrestlers. Barry, for whatever reason, has not been able to get the ones who had success at the national level other than Thielke (Dieringer, Sueflon, Breske, Askren).

Thielke dominated in high school, but focused on Greco. I think if he focused strictly on folkstyle, and managed his body for his college weight class, he would have had more success here.

I think it would help the interest in the wrestling program if we were able to get the elite wrestlers from Wiaconsin. Hope that eventually happens.

npope · December 25, 2015, 06:51:58 PM

Correct me if I am mistaken on this point, but didn't Davis pick off Theilke - the same guy who beat Sueflon and Deiringer in high school? In a system that only provides for limited scholarships, Davis got the "best" guy among that group. Subsequently, things haven't worked out so well, but geezzz, he got the guy. To suggest that Davis was asleep at the wheel on that one really isn't fair.

That said, I am not arguing that the Badgers have been collecting all of the elite talent in the state - only that using the example of Theilke, Sueflon and Deiringer isn't a good example of recruiting in state talent. Now, developing talent once in the room is another matter.

missinghome · December 25, 2015, 07:08:40 PM

My point is your not going to get all the great talent, and just because you have success in high school it does not mean you will have success at the next level. But sometimes you should hit a home run. I mean a down year for Iowa or Penn State would be the best year WI ever had. Nothing against anyone of the wrestlers at WI but if he was or is a Greco wrestler, why did WI recruit him so heavy. WI wrestles Folkstyle right? I believe he was also extremely successful on a national level (wrestling folkstyle) in high school. I really don't see anyone that comes to WI having great success.

Ivan Stankowski · December 25, 2015, 07:09:15 PM

Quote from: npope on December 25, 2015, 06:51:58 PM
Correct me if I am mistaken on this point, but didn't Davis pick off Theilke - the same guy who beat Sueflon and Deiringer in high school? In a system that only provides for limited scholarships, Davis got the "best" guy among that group. Subsequently, things haven't worked out so well, but geezzz, he got the guy. To suggest that Davis was asleep at the wheel on that one really isn't fair.

That said, I am not arguing that the Badgers have been collecting all of the elite talent in the state - only that using the example of Theilke, Sueflon and Deiringer isn't a good example of recruiting in state talent. Now, developing talent once in the room is another matter.

Why not get all 3? Should not that have been the goal. It is also easy to be the arm chair Qb at this point, But he went after the Greco guy, which in past hasn't proven to be the best choice, but he is the DI coach not me.

npope · December 25, 2015, 07:37:41 PM

Quote from: Ivan Stankowski on December 25, 2015, 07:09:15 PM
Quote from: npope on December 25, 2015, 06:51:58 PM
Correct me if I am mistaken on this point, but didn't Davis pick off Theilke - the same guy who beat Sueflon and Deiringer in high school? In a system that only provides for limited scholarships, Davis got the "best" guy among that group. Subsequently, things haven't worked out so well, but geezzz, he got the guy. To suggest that Davis was asleep at the wheel on that one really isn't fair.

That said, I am not arguing that the Badgers have been collecting all of the elite talent in the state - only that using the example of Theilke, Sueflon and Deiringer isn't a good example of recruiting in state talent. Now, developing talent once in the room is another matter.

Why not get all 3? Should not that have been the goal. It is also easy to be the arm chair Qb at this point, But he went after the Greco guy, which in past hasn't proven to be the best choice, but he is the DI coach not me.

I am not at all sure about the character of the scholarships each of those guys received, but the 9.9 limit the NCAA puts on wrestling teams is intended to "spread the talent" around; no one team is supposed to get all of the good guys. I strongly suspect those three guys all pulled full rides (maybe not Sueflon) - that's a lot of money tied up in just a few kids and that hurts recruiting other talent. School like Iowa, PSU, etc. have other resources that the UW simply does not have, financial and otherwise, that may serve to compensate a kid for not demanding a full ride. If you want to know more about some of those issues check in with Badgerjohn and the efforts of the booster club.

As for chasing after a Greco guy (instead of the other ones), that is a no win situation for Davis. There were posters on the forum threatening anarchy if the Badgers didn't bring in Theilke - he was the ultimate recruiting prize that year and I don't think there was anyone standing up saying otherwise. It just hasn't turned out as anyone planned.

billymurphy · December 25, 2015, 09:04:48 PM

The coach at Oklahoma State went with the Fargo FREESTYLE champion.
Nobody said being the Badgers coach has an easy job and when you
let the super talented Badgers all end up out of state, then you finish
in the bottom half of the Big Ten. Greco specialist have had very limited
success in college, that is fact.