Big Ten Tourney

[littleguy301]

Only from my memory, which has many short comings, but I think Goodale at RU had no college coaching experience when hired.

You are right! Was a top high school coach and state coach for fargo teams.

I think coach Goodall was the last to go from high school to college. Thier aren't many that do what Dresser and Goodale have done!

[Vir Fortis]

I think DJ got hurt shortly before he got put on his back. His energy level died after that and he was limping badly after the match. Hated to see that match get away from him. He was dominating and Messenbrink was dragging

I didn't think he got hurt at the end of the 2nd...I just think that's a Messenbrink-Hamiti match. They're going constantly and shooting non-stop.
I also do not think Messenbrink was "dragging." I think he still had a full gas-tank.

It DID seem to me like he got hurt(limping off the match made it pretty clear). And I think it most likely happened on that last TD.

Maybe he was gassed, but Messenbrink Wrestled smart there. He had him in a turk, he had that tight waist, kept driving forward and Hamiti was probably a bit dejected, he was flat...the biggest thing is I thought it was just dumb to go for what was a desperation move when you're still up even if you give up the TD.


That is going to end up being a HUGE outcome for NCAA seeding. Messenbrink is now on the same side(I'd guess) as Carr. Carr is a monster and probably a 2-3X NC in other eras, but lost last year to O'Toole when they were basically evenly matched.
I THOUGHT Messenbrink, Carr, even Hamiti were capable of winning it this year but the way O'Toole dominated that B12 finals match? I guess it's kinda like last year, just flipping the results(IIRC, Carr won 7-2 just before the NCAAs and then won another close match). But I got a different feeling from this one. O'Toole looks like he's taken it to another level.

I don't want to get ahead of the D1s, but he just looked SO solid with his leg defense and Carr hit some nice deep shots that are 3 vs anyone else in the Country and he wasn't even close to O'Toole. And what I love about how O'Toole defends, it's just heavy hips, making him carry your weight, not diving over the top getting into a scramble(he doesn't need that, he can score enough ways)...but he's also so dangerous there that Carr was afraid to step up or he was gonna get cradled. It was like Jaggers offense off the shot combined with...IDK, Aaron Brooks leg defense? Is that too hyperbolic?

It's one match, but I went from thinking he could get beat(mostly because the weight is so stacked) to thinking he's now head and shoulders above the best weight this year. Him and Messenbrink would be fun, but I think he can slow Messenbrink down.


Alright, now that I got all the way off that topic, the next Badgers HC. I'll stay with the last name. Messenbrink. He got the absolute most out of guys. He had guys who'd get teched the year before(or heck, even the same year) come back and pull off some huge upset in the biggest matches.

He gets guys ready for the end of the year. I remember Sueflohn for example beating Thielke based on how he was prepared for that match. He's got the Askren ties.

The thing that makes me doubt it'll ever happen is...you'd have to divest yourself entirely of the AWA club, no? Otherwise, Max would be perfect.
But you can't have anything to do with AWA in terms of running the club, making money off the kids, having contact with them from the time they're 4th graders through HS, and coaching in the B1Gs...right?

Max has a...kinda oddly overlooked background due to Ben casting a pretty wide net, but he had an incredible career, including kinda walking through '84 as a Sr(ran into Varner a couple times IIRC).

But same problem as Ben.

John Messenbrink though, he's the guy who kinda started it all. The problem there...is he gonna want to again, divest himself of what seems to be a lucrative job that affords him the flexibility of watching his son who seems destined to take home at least a couple of D1 Titles(and I'd guess that's the start of his goals) to rebuild a program?

Ben gave UW the answer. Craig Becker. Get Becker, he knows enough high-level Wrestlers. Get Reader to stay on, try and pry Branvold back(he's another option as just the head coach as well).


I think Dean Hamiti is getting better.

I HOPE Rivera, Zargo and others will, but there was too much stagnation with Barnett(I get it, stacked weight, but it's the same way he loses every time). Hilger came in and looked like he'd climb the ladder and end up an NC and he ended up just putting up the same results year after year(maybe his best year was his first year when he took 6th, but I could be wrong).

Amos, you lose Clark and Estrada.

I also reject the idea it's NIL. Wrestling has always been dominated by a couple programs. The Football team doesn't pay HS recruits. They have an incentive program, but they're not handing over money to top recruits and I believe very few schools are.

And, if I understand correctly, Iowa has more money to throw around than anyone else...yet they were right there with Neb, OSU, Mich(they're not poor, but it seems to be mostly transfers who get the money) and Minnesota(I'm forgetting whoever else was in that group of 5 after PSU).


You can still be competitive. Winning an NCAA Title isn't the only mark of a successful program. Team Trophy, NCAA Champs, watching kids grow.

I doubt a Cornell Wrestling fan is complaining about their lack of success...and I believe they're prohibited from handing out NIL money in the Ivy's(but not certain). But not nearly as much has changed in Wrestling as people are inferring...IMO. You can still be competitive with the right coach and recruiting.

The way this year turned, again, we had Rowley, Amos, Estrada, and Root coming in with Clark, all gone and Amos wrestling Greco with rumors he's not coming back. That's a BIG blow. Something needs to be done now.

[Healthy and happy]

Help me understand why some of you keep pushing the Askren name.  He had the opportunity to coach at the collegiate level years ago but choose not to. He got out.  Sounds like he would probably have to move, take a pay cut, work more hours and deal with a lot more BS than he currently does. Why would he or his brother want to do that?  Maybe some of you should consider not throwing the name around anymore??

[hornbuckleb]

Put Max askren as coach bring Parker K for an assistant with seth and have John Messenbrink Manger of operation for bucky.

Like some one said being a head coach is time consuming. NCAA compliance meeting, budget meeting, progress reports, keeping 18 to 25 year Olds in line and grades and such, fund raising, rubbing elbows, 24/7 recruiting. The easiest part of the day I the 1.5 hours in the practice room!

Parker has another year

[hornbuckleb]

Highly unlikely.....
Ben Askren is unemployable. Max is the only option, then let Ben run the RTC outside of the UW Facilities.  Too many assitant options to list

It would work.....
Branvold (understands Wisconsin)
Ringer (doubtful to make olympic team, but will probably be a world teamer)  possibly looking to settle down
Steiner to Run the RTC (daughter is at Parkside)

Wish List....
Jason Nolf after this cycle (more than likely not going to beat Dake)
David Taylor (done after this cycle, but M2 and hobby farm living is the life for him)

[littleguy301]

Put Max askren as coach bring Parker K for an assistant with seth and have John Messenbrink Manger of operation for bucky.

Like some one said being a head coach is time consuming. NCAA compliance meeting, budget meeting, progress reports, keeping 18 to 25 year Olds in line and grades and such, fund raising, rubbing elbows, 24/7 recruiting. The easiest part of the day I the 1.5 hours in the practice room!

Parker has another year

Does have to be another year on uni if max was the coach mainly speculation on my part. I doubt that is going to happen wit max and john.

[Healthy and happy]

Put Max askren as coach bring Parker K for an assistant with seth and have John Messenbrink Manger of operation for bucky.

Like some one said being a head coach is time consuming. NCAA compliance meeting, budget meeting, progress reports, keeping 18 to 25 year Olds in line and grades and such, fund raising, rubbing elbows, 24/7 recruiting. The easiest part of the day I the 1.5 hours in the practice room!

Educate us, what coaching experience (especially collegiately) does Max have outside of AWA?

[dman]

I'd instantly become a Badger super fan if they hired John Mesenbrink or Becker out of Parkside!

[MNbadger]

"It would work.....
Branvold (understands Wisconsin)"
Never will we let Brandvold go...... 

Highly unlikely.....
Ben Askren is unemployable. Max is the only option, then let Ben run the RTC outside of the UW Facilities.  Too many assitant options to list

It would work.....
Branvold (understands Wisconsin)
Ringer (doubtful to make olympic team, but will probably be a world teamer)  possibly looking to settle down
Steiner to Run the RTC (daughter is at Parkside)

Wish List....
Jason Nolf after this cycle (more than likely not going to beat Dake)
David Taylor (done after this cycle, but M2 and hobby farm living is the life for him)

[littleguy301]

Put Max askren as coach bring Parker K for an assistant with seth and have John Messenbrink Manger of operation for bucky.

Like some one said being a head coach is time consuming. NCAA compliance meeting, budget meeting, progress reports, keeping 18 to 25 year Olds in line and grades and such, fund raising, rubbing elbows, 24/7 recruiting. The easiest part of the day I the 1.5 hours in the practice room!

Educate us, what coaching experience (especially collegiately) does Max have outside of AWA?

Actually not overly sure. He was at one time connected to Cornell but not sure in what role.

I believe behind the scenes max has a very good reputation of a good coach. Behind the scenes I bet he has worked with some well known wrestlers.

As for running a program he doesn't have any experience I know of outside his program. I put that list together of responsibilities that any one that wants to coach would have to do. I also put those name together because people talk about then and putting those three max, joh and Parke on a staff would make for some excitement at least amount wisconsin people. It would for me!

[wrestle03]

All of these hypothetical hires sound great - but why would either of the Askrens even be remotely interested in giving up their club life to embark into a journey as a Big Ten coach which would likely take up hundreds of more hours of their time?  As for Messenbrink - great guy, superb coach and technical teacher of wrestling.  But at nearly 55 years old and one of the founders and head coaches at AWA - why in the world would he be interested as well?  I think Ben, Max and John are all more than happy with the life they are leading right now.
But, with that being said - Ben may be able to be tempted to prove the doubters wrong and build a team/program HIS way.  Time will tell - Bono likely isnt going anywhere unfortunately.

[Wrestling Guru]

I just think having someone like Ben in the position could create excitement while also producing high caliber wrestlers that take steps of improvement.

I think Bono brought a lot of excitement when he first came to Wisconsin and I think he does an okay job of hyping the program, however I do not see our guys jumping levels with him.  He is a good manager but I have been disappointed in his recruiting and results.

If Ben Askren was a badger regardless of money, facilities, or all the excuses people keep listing on why we are mediocre, we would have O'Toole, Mesenbrink, Parker, Mirasolas', Sinclair, Millard, and the list continues...

We are too busy celebrating mediocrity and making excuses rather than taking a chance on something new. What do we have to lose?     

[DocWrestling]

Bono has certainly helped the Badger program in growth with fans on social media and hype and fan experience.  Now it is about the product.  You need facilities and money but the most important part is probably having an exciting coach who can recruit.  Bono is not getting any big time full scholarship type recruits that can be all-americans early.  He has to try to recruit nationally because he is handicapped even in his own state.  Before Mesenbrink and O'Toole there was Dieringer.

Mcintosh is very familiar with AWA and Askrens and Mesenbrink.  If I am him and they do not want the job I am certainly going to ask their opinion on who they think would work well at UW.