http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/235410721.html
I imagine that the company will welcome the opportunity to sell more crossbows. Are there any projections regarding the number of middle class jobs this will produce?
Smart move. I think it's high time crossbows were more accessible to hunters.
Would be interesting if the PETA faithful were to try to confront this, as greater accuracy means less suffering.
I wish they would have made it a seperate season and tag from the archery. I was surprised by the 91-0 vote in the Assembly.
Quote from: futurerichguy on December 11, 2013, 11:46:40 AM
Scott Walker must have a man-crush on Daryl Dixon.
I think it has almost nothing to do with Walker or creating jobs as Fish was inquiring. He was just signing something that appearently was popular enough to be passed unanimously.
Quote from: Houndhead on December 11, 2013, 12:22:41 PM
Quote from: futurerichguy on December 11, 2013, 11:46:40 AM
Scott Walker must have a man-crush on Daryl Dixon.
I think it has almost nothing to do with Walker or creating jobs as Fish was inquiring. He was just signing something that appearently was popular enough to be passed unanimously.
Yeah, no-brainer. I know I'd love to own a cross. I really enjoyed shooting my dad's for practice.
Some things to consider:
1) a crossbow weighs more than a bow. This weight is a bit harder to handle in a tree stand and a bit awkward. Practice shooting from a stand is critical to success. Not so much with a reg. bow.
2) use only the bolts that are suggested by the company you buy the crossbow from. Bolts, unlike normal arrows are very specific to the shooting of a specific crossbow.
3) you won't be getting a second shot...ever. Much harder to put a bolt in, cock the crossbow...much more movement and time is required.
4) If you are in the market for a "new" used bow, wait till this next season to buy. Many of the archers out there will be switching to a crossbow, thus many more bows will be on the used market most likely driving the prices down.
Good advice. Thanks for that.
Quote from: Houndhead on December 11, 2013, 12:22:41 PM
Quote from: futurerichguy on December 11, 2013, 11:46:40 AM
Scott Walker must have a man-crush on Daryl Dixon.
I think it has almost nothing to do with Walker or creating jobs as Fish was inquiring. He was just signing something that appearently was popular enough to be passed unanimously.
Back when I used to bow hunt, I always thought a crossbow would be a lot more effective. I don't see a problem with the new law, especially since it will probably result in less suffering by the deer. I am serious about the jobs question, though. Anyone heard or read any projections?
Quote from: jeast on December 11, 2013, 12:56:42 PM
Some things to consider:
1) a crossbow weighs more than a bow. This weight is a bit harder to handle in a tree stand and a bit awkward. Practice shooting from a stand is critical to success. Not so much with a reg. bow.
2) use only the bolts that are suggested by the company you buy the crossbow from. Bolts, unlike normal arrows are very specific to the shooting of a specific crossbow.
3) you won't be getting a second shot...ever. Much harder to put a bolt in, cock the crossbow...much more movement and time is required.
4) If you are in the market for a "new" used bow, wait till this next season to buy. Many of the archers out there will be switching to a crossbow, thus many more bows will be on the used market most likely driving the prices down.
With regards to #1 the new crossbows, at least the higher end ones, are not as big and heavy as their predecessors. I couldn't believe some of the ones out there. They are not bad for second shot if u r able to cock them without aid.
I haven't bow hunted in some time but now I will probably get back into it with a crossbow.
The idea it has to be separate form archery season is a bunch of BS the archery lobby seems to think that hoards of folks will flock to the woods because of crossbows. BS the people who are going take up cross bows are maybe some women and younger folks that is good thing, we need more numbers to take up hunting. The other group will be older folks that just do not have time or have some issue to using a compound. Heck an 80 compound with 85% setoff can be held for a very long time not a heck of allot different than a crossbow.
G PM me I have several crossbows I have done some in-depth testing of them and can give you some heads up on plusses and minuses of the different models and makes.
By the way I hunt with Longbow and a crossbow I have had more success with my longbow than my crossbow uummmm contrary to what you here isn't it.
There is allot of mis-information on crossbows out there and if you want me to expound on my personal experience this year hunting with one I will.
i agree with hound, walker had no political reason to sign this, it's simply what most of the hunters wanted...to me, crossbows are not really part of old time traditional bow hunting, i see them as a advanced killing tool that gives the hunter a huge edge against an animal and not a Bow. for those who hunt for meat because they really need it, i guess i can understand using them. one thing that has always bugged me is the fact that most of the people who use them think there rifles, it really bothers me to hear a person say, i shot at one 50 yds away or 60 yds away...ya, you sure can kill a deer at 50 yd with a crossbow as you can with a regular bow, but how many deer are wounded because of this? where i hunt, i have seen a lot more deer walking around wounded than i have seen before the people around the area started using them..as hound said, and again i agree,(that's twice in one day hound :)) i would also like to see a crossbow season separate from all other hunts...
Well except that in the DNR spring meetings they was overwhelmingly voted to support a crossbow bill and your interpretation of the crossbow like most things you attempt to analyze is so far from the truth it is not even on this planet.
Crossbows have been around for hundreds of years longer than Compounds FACT.
Crossbows have been around darn near as long as Yew Longbows....FACT
Crossbows increase the opportunity for younger folks to hunt and effectively and CLEANLY harvest game the outdoor experience is important and some success keeps them interested. FACT
Crossbows is just another option like Compound vs Recurve or Longbow or 243 vs 30-30 or handgun. Do not over think this and take out your political bias and you can see this "tool" opens the opportunity to draw in some new and give more opportunity to the old.
The idea of hunting is harvest game that is the ultimate end to the beginning and we owe to the game to make it clean and effective. FACT
Crossbows shoot an arrow just like a longbow and or compound......FACT
Compound bows use sighting devices which include lighted pins and scopes just like crossbows.
So under your idea of hunting we should make our own bows from Hickory and shoot stone tipped arrows made from Rivercane? I have done both made a bow and the arrows nice experience but we would have more deer for the toddle pups than for the freezer but with your mentality that is the way to go because with your statement compounds should NOT be allowed either.
I think maybe we should have a catch and release deer hunting season. With our latest paint ball technology, we should be able to do it. Maybe use trail cams to record the "catch." Then, go celebrate with a tofurkey! ;)
I like that. Tranq dart, take some pictures with the deer in funny poses, then cut 'em. "Deer with a beer" picture. Another with the deer on an outhouse stool "Deer John." Possibilities are endless.
If we have more people enter the woods regardless of weapon, there will be more deer taken cleanly, and more wounded deer that perhaps live, perhaps don't. Crossbows will be part of that. Just as with other weapons, the easier it is to use, the less (some) people will practice with it and learn which shots to take, which not to take, what angles the deer must be at etc. This leads to more wounding even if the weapon is inherantly more accurate, that doesn't mean the shooter will be more prepared and effective.
Accuracy, though, depends more on the shooter than the weapon. Practice, practice practice.
I just want the atlatl to have its own season, so I can find some dang solitude out there.
I don't know how anyone has ever killed anything with one of those. I tried it once and it's tough!
Quote from: Handles II on December 13, 2013, 02:59:12 PM
If we have more people enter the woods regardless of weapon, there will be more deer taken cleanly, and more wounded deer that perhaps live, perhaps don't. Crossbows will be part of that. Just as with other weapons, the easier it is to use, the less (some) people will practice with it and learn which shots to take, which not to take, what angles the deer must be at etc. This leads to more wounding even if the weapon is inherantly more accurate, that doesn't mean the shooter will be more prepared and effective.
You need to go back rewrite this as you contradict yourself so much that it is hard to follow. Nothing wrong with crossbows and more people in the woods that is good thing the resources are there for everyone to enjoy and use. You and other private landowners like myself do not own the deer and what do you use a Compound or a self bow? Either way it does not matter choose what you want and hunt with it it is not going to put more people other than a few youth hunters and some gals and maybe some older folks I cannot see that being a problem. AT ALL fringing WBH associations is elitist group of self centered lobbysts that think they own the deer heard and so is the WTA of which I am member and i have openly supported in front of the members the use of crossbows.
Crossbow dates back way longer than the Compound bow only dated by the self bow made of yew that English archers used. Frankly they are rather cumbersome to use and you still have to get close enough and see deer to use them.
Quote from: bigG on December 13, 2013, 03:05:14 PM
Accuracy, though, depends more on the shooter than the weapon. Practice, practice practice.
I just want the atlatl to have its own season, so I can find some dang solitude out there.
When I was a kid, I killed a goose with a rock. Pretty quiet way to go, but it takes a good arm.
Quote from: smitty71 on December 13, 2013, 04:03:13 PM
I don't know how anyone has ever killed anything with one of those. I tried it once and it's tough!
I felt it came naturally to me. I lobe the thing; but you need to room get a head of steam. Need a barbed spear, though to stick into the critter and keep it bleeding. Tracking skills are big for Atlatl hunters, I'm guessing. Not a treestand-friendly weapon. :) Like anything, you'll suck the first fifty launches. I've always liked throwing, and the atlatl is natural to those coached correctly in baseball. I still suck; but I've seen many opportunities by my camper that screamed "if only I had an atlatl right now!" ;)
ahhhhhhh, crossbows shoot a BOLT ;) NOT AN ARROW....just saying..
Quote from: ramjet on December 13, 2013, 05:27:14 PM
Quote from: Handles II on December 13, 2013, 02:59:12 PM
If we have more people enter the woods regardless of weapon, there will be more deer taken cleanly, and more wounded deer that perhaps live, perhaps don't. Crossbows will be part of that. Just as with other weapons, the easier it is to use, the less (some) people will practice with it and learn which shots to take, which not to take, what angles the deer must be at etc. This leads to more wounding even if the weapon is inherantly more accurate, that doesn't mean the shooter will be more prepared and effective.
You need to go back rewrite this as you contradict yourself so much that it is hard to follow. Nothing wrong with crossbows and more people in the woods that is good thing the resources are there for everyone to enjoy and use. You and other private landowners like myself do not own the deer and what do you use a Compound or a self bow? Either way it does not matter choose what you want and hunt with it it is not going to put more people other than a few youth hunters and some gals and maybe some older folks I cannot see that being a problem. AT ALL fringing WBH associations is elitist group of self centered lobbysts that think they own the deer heard and so is the WTA of which I am member and i have openly supported in front of the members the use of crossbows.
Crossbow dates back way longer than the Compound bow only dated by the self bow made of yew that English archers used. Frankly they are rather cumbersome to use and you still have to get close enough and see deer to use them.
You need to re-read what I posted. I stated that more people in the woods attempting to shoot more deer will equal more wounded deer as there will be more people taking bad shots or overestimating the effectiveness of their weapon, or more likely, their abilities.
Please explain how I am wrong without going into some tangent about the WBH or the history of crossbows.
Quote from: Houndhead on December 11, 2013, 12:18:20 PM
I wish they would have made it a seperate season and tag from the archery. I was surprised by the 91-0 vote in the Assembly.
Why?
I have hunted with traditional gear and am a life member of the WTA and have zero issue with full inclusion. The idea that they will shoot all the deer is absurd. This just gives another option to folks to hunt with a device older than the compound. It's no real big deal. I will add I have permit and used one this last week and shot an old wise doe the quickest most human kill I have made with archery equipment. Just an option hound do not get caught up in the propaganda from the WBH. They are selfish self serving group of hunters that are not friends of conservation only themselves.
Quote from: Handles II on January 08, 2014, 02:24:53 PM
Quote from: ramjet on December 13, 2013, 05:27:14 PM
Quote from: Handles II on December 13, 2013, 02:59:12 PM
If we have more people enter the woods regardless of weapon, there will be more deer taken cleanly, and more wounded deer that perhaps live, perhaps don't. Crossbows will be part of that. Just as with other weapons, the easier it is to use, the less (some) people will practice with it and learn which shots to take, which not to take, what angles the deer must be at etc. This leads to more wounding even if the weapon is inherantly more accurate, that doesn't mean the shooter will be more prepared and effective.
You need to go back rewrite this as you contradict yourself so much that it is hard to follow. Nothing wrong with crossbows and more people in the woods that is good thing the resources are there for everyone to enjoy and use. You and other private landowners like myself do not own the deer and what do you use a Compound or a self bow? Either way it does not matter choose what you want and hunt with it it is not going to put more people other than a few youth hunters and some gals and maybe some older folks I cannot see that being a problem. AT ALL fringing WBH associations is elitist group of self centered lobbysts that think they own the deer heard and so is the WTA of which I am member and i have openly supported in front of the members the use of crossbows.
Crossbow dates back way longer than the Compound bow only dated by the self bow made of yew that English archers used. Frankly they are rather cumbersome to use and you still have to get close enough and see deer to use them.
You need to re-read what I posted. I stated that more people in the woods attempting to shoot more deer will equal more wounded deer as there will be more people taking bad shots or overestimating the effectiveness of their weapon, or more likely, their abilities.
Please explain how I am wrong without going into some tangent about the WBH or the history of crossbows.
I can assure you their will be less wounded deer from CB than guys with longbows self bows and compounds.
I just took a doe with crossbow it was fast and over faster than any deer I shot with traditional equipment and I have taken allot of deer with my longbow and a few elk. In fact the nice buck I shot with my GNR 375 #2 flopped around longer than this doe did and she weighed over 140 lbs dressed out.
Let's leave aside the propaganda the law will allow more folks to have the option to hunt with crossbow and then declare if they used a CB or other archery equipment to harvest the game. 2 years from now the data will be available to examine to see if they became the prolific game taking machines many say they are.
To celebrate the law I will go tomorrow and buy another CB this time to support a State business it will be a Mathews (Mission) CB. Looked them today great bow with narrow limbs and light weight well made by skilled workers here in Wisconsin. I am excited to get it may even go out and see if I can call in a yoddle pup or two.
I would and everyone should be more concerned with the baiting and feeding of deer than a CB.
I said more people in the woods will equate to more wounded deer. I stated that as a fact regardless of the weapon used.
You argued against me twice and both times you were wrong.
Quote from: Handles II on January 10, 2014, 07:56:01 AM
I said more people in the woods will equate to more wounded deer. I stated that as a fact regardless of the weapon used.
You argued against me twice and both times you were wrong.
A "fact" according to you.
Feeding deer on one side of the highway equates to more deer crossing and getting hit by cars. Wheres the outrage?
Would you let your kids (if they are old enough) if they asked hunt with crossbow?
Why do think there will be more people hunting or that many "more" people?
I actually think and see more people considering it that already hunt than anyone who is new.
I was going to upgrade compound bows for my son; but I think I'll wait and go with a cross the next purchase.
Yes it is a fact.
As for your questions that change the subject:
1. There is outrage about baiting deer
2. Not unless they are buying their crossbows. Dad already bought them vertical bows that they asked for.
3. There will be people using crossbows that do not use vertical bows, therefore more people hunting with bows. I never said "many" learn to comprehend what you read.
4. See #3.
My only issue with feeding deer is the increasing prevalence of CWD and the potential for spreading it by feeding. I know we aren't hearing as much about this lately, but it is an issue that should be dealt with. Maybe the big deer populations should be a thing of the past, if we are ever going to get this problem under control. If the use of more efficient weapons can be safely included in that effort, I don't have a problem with it. My brother's really good with a slingshot. Any potential for a slingshot season? ;D
Quote from: ramjet on January 09, 2014, 10:19:08 PM
Quote from: Houndhead on December 11, 2013, 12:18:20 PM
I wish they would have made it a seperate season and tag from the archery. I was surprised by the 91-0 vote in the Assembly.
Why?
I have hunted with traditional gear and am a life member of the WTA and have zero issue with full inclusion. The idea that they will shoot all the deer is absurd. This just gives another option to folks to hunt with a device older than the compound. It's no real big deal. I will add I have permit and used one this last week and shot an old wise doe the quickest most human kill I have made with archery equipment. Just an option hound do not get caught up in the propaganda from the WBH. They are selfish self serving group of hunters that are not friends of conservation only themselves.
I just like the idea of increasing hunting opportunities, same reason as I would not like the muzzleloader and rifle season to become one and the same. A muzzleloader and a rifle are two different weapons, why not have a season for both? I wish they had a separate license for both. A compound bow and a crossbow are different weapons, why not have a season for both. I think having separate seasons would increase hunting opportunities, instead of making them one and the same. I think the state is missing out on a chance to raise additional revenue. There should be a separate license for bow, crossbow, rifle, muzzleloader, atla, wrist rocket, spear, ect........ Whatever people want to do, make them appreciate it by buying a licence specific to that season. Great way to increase revenue for the state.
By the way, I agree with you about the WBH.
Quote from: imnofish on January 10, 2014, 10:50:22 AM
My only issue with feeding deer is the increasing prevalence of CWD and the potential for spreading it by feeding. I know we aren't hearing as much about this lately, but it is an issue that should be dealt with. Maybe the big deer populations should be a thing of the past, if we are ever going to get this problem under control. If the use of more efficient weapons can be safely included in that effort, I don't have a problem with it. My brother's really good with a slingshot. Any potential for a slingshot season? ;D
If you can humanely harvest a deer with it, I would be in favor.
Quote from: imnofish on January 10, 2014, 10:50:22 AM
My only issue with feeding deer is the increasing prevalence of CWD and the potential for spreading it by feeding. I know we aren't hearing as much about this lately, but it is an issue that should be dealt with. Maybe the big deer populations should be a thing of the past, if we are ever going to get this problem under control. If the use of more efficient weapons can be safely included in that effort, I don't have a problem with it. My brother's really good with a slingshot. Any potential for a slingshot season? ;D
i can guarantee you that big deer populations is not a problem in this area.
Quote from: Houndhead on January 10, 2014, 10:53:37 AM
Quote from: imnofish on January 10, 2014, 10:50:22 AM
My only issue with feeding deer is the increasing prevalence of CWD and the potential for spreading it by feeding. I know we aren't hearing as much about this lately, but it is an issue that should be dealt with. Maybe the big deer populations should be a thing of the past, if we are ever going to get this problem under control. If the use of more efficient weapons can be safely included in that effort, I don't have a problem with it. My brother's really good with a slingshot. Any potential for a slingshot season? ;D
If you can humanely harvest a deer with it, I would be in favor.
He took a crow off the top of a cornstalk, so he could probably take a deer down with an appropriately accurate stop. Those things are wicked!
Quote from: Houndhead on January 10, 2014, 10:54:31 AM
Quote from: imnofish on January 10, 2014, 10:50:22 AM
My only issue with feeding deer is the increasing prevalence of CWD and the potential for spreading it by feeding. I know we aren't hearing as much about this lately, but it is an issue that should be dealt with. Maybe the big deer populations should be a thing of the past, if we are ever going to get this problem under control. If the use of more efficient weapons can be safely included in that effort, I don't have a problem with it. My brother's really good with a slingshot. Any potential for a slingshot season? ;D
i can guarantee you that big deer populations is not a problem in this area.
Yeah, I know it's always varied by county/local area. It certainly depends on where you are hunting.
Quote from: imnofish on January 10, 2014, 10:50:22 AM
My only issue with feeding deer is the increasing prevalence of CWD and the potential for spreading it by feeding. I know we aren't hearing as much about this lately, but it is an issue that should be dealt with. Maybe the big deer populations should be a thing of the past, if we are ever going to get this problem under control. If the use of more efficient weapons can be safely included in that effort, I don't have a problem with it. My brother's really good with a slingshot. Any potential for a slingshot season? ;D
Yup thats one issue the other is the deer that cross the roads to get to grandmas feeder and cause automobile accidents and allot damage to vehicles. They would not be crossing as much at some places if they were not going to corn feeders. Plus from a hunting stand point the deer turn nocturnal.
Unbelievable. ::)
Deer are more active in their feeding patterns nocturnally no matter where they are, what time of the year it is, or if it's a feeder or a field, and they will always continue to feed, though more sparingly and more often on browse in the woods during the day when they aren't resting . Grandma's feeder doesn't make them nocturnal.
You really come up with some dandy's ramjet.
Quote from: Handles II on January 11, 2014, 07:26:10 AM
Unbelievable. ::)
Deer are more active in their feeding patterns nocturnally no matter where they are, what time of the year it is, or if it's a feeder or a field, and they will always continue to feed, though more sparingly and more often on browse in the woods during the day when they aren't resting . Grandma's feeder doesn't make them nocturnal.
You really come up with some dandy's ramjet.
Using that logic, we should ban cornfields... or roads. ;)
Quote from: Houndhead on January 10, 2014, 10:52:37 AM
Quote from: ramjet on January 09, 2014, 10:19:08 PM
Quote from: Houndhead on December 11, 2013, 12:18:20 PM
I wish they would have made it a seperate season and tag from the archery. I was surprised by the 91-0 vote in the Assembly.
Why?
I have hunted with traditional gear and am a life member of the WTA and have zero issue with full inclusion. The idea that they will shoot all the deer is absurd. This just gives another option to folks to hunt with a device older than the compound. It's no real big deal. I will add I have permit and used one this last week and shot an old wise doe the quickest most human kill I have made with archery equipment. Just an option hound do not get caught up in the propaganda from the WBH. They are selfish self serving group of hunters that are not friends of conservation only themselves.
I just like the idea of increasing hunting opportunities, same reason as I would not like the muzzleloader and rifle season to become one and the same. A muzzleloader and a rifle are two different weapons, why not have a season for both? I wish they had a separate license for both. A compound bow and a crossbow are different weapons, why not have a season for both. I think having separate seasons would increase hunting opportunities, instead of making them one and the same. I think the state is missing out on a chance to raise additional revenue. There should be a separate license for bow, crossbow, rifle, muzzleloader, atla, wrist rocket, spear, ect........ Whatever people want to do, make them appreciate it by buying a licence specific to that season. Great way to increase revenue for the state.
By the way, I agree with you about the WBH.
Sorry hound, but I have to disagree here. I think one of the major problems in the recent past was that many hunters quit hunting. One of the main reasons they quit was because of all of the different rules regarding season, limits, etc. etc. etc. Fishing too is on the decline, especially trout and walleye, mainly because it is almost hard to make sure you are legal in all aspects of all of the regulations. People just quit rather than try to figure out legality.
I would support a tax, license or permit for bird watching, hiking, snow shoeing, cross country skiing, bicycling etc. on state owned ground. Why must the hunting/fishing people buy all of the licenses? If it were not for hunting enthusiasts, there would not be turkeys in wisconsin, nor elk, nor a healthy deer herd. If not for people buying conservation patrons licenses ( I am on my 24th year of buying cons. patron lic) we wouldn't have all of the land (19% of all wisconsin is state owned). License sales have been the main funding source for all of the DNR activities including land aquisition.
I think we should make the rules easier to follow. Allow for high sensitivity areas to be controlled differently, but overall...I would like to fish for walleye on the mississippi without wondering what the slot size is between every lock and dam, what the length is I can keep...etc. I love the new hunting regs. Much easier to follow than before. More people will buy lic. if they could understand the rules better, rather than making more licenses and more seasons to confuse the situation. jmho
Quote from: Handles II on January 11, 2014, 07:26:10 AM
Unbelievable. ::)
Deer are more active in their feeding patterns nocturnally no matter where they are, what time of the year it is, or if it's a feeder or a field, and they will always continue to feed, though more sparingly and more often on browse in the woods during the day when they aren't resting . Grandma's feeder doesn't make them nocturnal.
You really come up with some dandy's ramjet.
Actually he is correct. In areas where baiting is allowed deer have learned to stay bedded until dark and then just head to the buffet. They need to travel more in the daylight to get their daily allowance without bait piles. If I'm not mistaken, baiting is not allowed where you live correct?
Quote from: jeast on January 11, 2014, 09:50:48 AM
Quote from: Houndhead on January 10, 2014, 10:52:37 AM
Quote from: ramjet on January 09, 2014, 10:19:08 PM
Quote from: Houndhead on December 11, 2013, 12:18:20 PM
I wish they would have made it a seperate season and tag from the archery. I was surprised by the 91-0 vote in the Assembly.
Why?
I have hunted with traditional gear and am a life member of the WTA and have zero issue with full inclusion. The idea that they will shoot all the deer is absurd. This just gives another option to folks to hunt with a device older than the compound. It's no real big deal. I will add I have permit and used one this last week and shot an old wise doe the quickest most human kill I have made with archery equipment. Just an option hound do not get caught up in the propaganda from the WBH. They are selfish self serving group of hunters that are not friends of conservation only themselves.
I just like the idea of increasing hunting opportunities, same reason as I would not like the muzzleloader and rifle season to become one and the same. A muzzleloader and a rifle are two different weapons, why not have a season for both? I wish they had a separate license for both. A compound bow and a crossbow are different weapons, why not have a season for both. I think having separate seasons would increase hunting opportunities, instead of making them one and the same. I think the state is missing out on a chance to raise additional revenue. There should be a separate license for bow, crossbow, rifle, muzzleloader, atla, wrist rocket, spear, ect........ Whatever people want to do, make them appreciate it by buying a licence specific to that season. Great way to increase revenue for the state.
By the way, I agree with you about the WBH.
Sorry hound, but I have to disagree here. I think one of the major problems in the recent past was that many hunters quit hunting. One of the main reasons they quit was because of all of the different rules regarding season, limits, etc. etc. etc. Fishing too is on the decline, especially trout and walleye, mainly because it is almost hard to make sure you are legal in all aspects of all of the regulations. People just quit rather than try to figure out legality.
I would support a tax, license or permit for bird watching, hiking, snow shoeing, cross country skiing, bicycling etc. on state owned ground. Why must the hunting/fishing people buy all of the licenses? If it were not for hunting enthusiasts, there would not be turkeys in wisconsin, nor elk, nor a healthy deer herd. If not for people buying conservation patrons licenses ( I am on my 24th year of buying cons. patron lic) we wouldn't have all of the land (19% of all wisconsin is state owned). License sales have been the main funding source for all of the DNR activities including land aquisition.
I think we should make the rules easier to follow. Allow for high sensitivity areas to be controlled differently, but overall...I would like to fish for walleye on the mississippi without wondering what the slot size is between every lock and dam, what the length is I can keep...etc. I love the new hunting regs. Much easier to follow than before. More people will buy lic. if they could understand the rules better, rather than making more licenses and more seasons to confuse the situation. jmho
I agree with much of what you say, but I don't think having a license for different weapons would be very confusing. It might simplify things.
Quote from: Houndhead on January 11, 2014, 09:54:10 AM
Quote from: Handles II on January 11, 2014, 07:26:10 AM
Unbelievable. ::)
Deer are more active in their feeding patterns nocturnally no matter where they are, what time of the year it is, or if it's a feeder or a field, and they will always continue to feed, though more sparingly and more often on browse in the woods during the day when they aren't resting . Grandma's feeder doesn't make them nocturnal.
You really come up with some dandy's ramjet.
Actually he is correct. In areas where baiting is allowed deer have learned to stay bedded until dark and then just head to the buffet. They need to travel more in the daylight to get their daily allowance without bait piles. If I'm not mistaken, baiting is not allowed where you live correct?
Just as they have learned to go to the cornfields in the evenings, just as they go to the natural grassy clearings in the woods in the evenings. And if someone is baiting, they can set their feeders to feed during daylight hours.
The reality is that deer are and always will be more actively moving and feeding during twilight hours. People who say they turn nocturnal because of feeding obviously don't know much about deer behavior.
Hound is correct. In a completely "natural" state, deer are twilight animals, neither fully nocturnal nor fully diurnal. Deer will bed down shortly after feeding well after dusk, at some point they will again get up and feed/water during night hours but also bed down shortly after dawn. Hunting pressure can and will make animals nocturnal completely. Feeding/baiting deer does not change their habits too much, other than change their natural fear of humans. It will also help keep weaker animals alive during brutally hard winters. This in turn has a detrimental effect on the herd overall, survival of the fittest and all that. Feeding can also increase the likely hood that disease will run rampant on a local herd, much like the CWD concerns in the south part of the State. I know people enjoy seeing deer in their back yards, until that same herd starts wiping out trees and ornimental shrubs, then not so much.
In fact, feeding wild animals in our National parks out west is illegal. Why? Because a fed bear is a dead bear. Same holds true for most wild animals. Although people think they are helping by feeding wild animals, in fact it usually creates far more harm than good.
Much like many things humans percieve as good...like buying a brand new prius for the environment. The energy consumed, the CO2 released to build that brand new car far, far, far outweighs any added environmental benefits from the few gallons of gas saved over the lifetime of that car. We would be better off running our older cars until they have turned into scrap iron if you really care about the environment. But, it makes some humans feel good about themselves, much like feeding wild animals.
Same is true of the so-called "benefits" of wind towers...there really are not any benefits of wind towers except on a very small scale with private wind towers that are not on the main power grid. True also of the so-called "Benefits" of corn ethanol. But I regress...a lot sometimes...HA. ;D
Good post. I agree with the whole thing.
Quote from: Handles II on January 11, 2014, 10:10:48 AM
Quote from: Houndhead on January 11, 2014, 09:54:10 AM
Quote from: Handles II on January 11, 2014, 07:26:10 AM
Unbelievable. ::)
Deer are more active in their feeding patterns nocturnally no matter where they are, what time of the year it is, or if it's a feeder or a field, and they will always continue to feed, though more sparingly and more often on browse in the woods during the day when they aren't resting . Grandma's feeder doesn't make them nocturnal.
You really come up with some dandy's ramjet.
Actually he is correct. In areas where baiting is allowed deer have learned to stay bedded until dark and then just head to the buffet. They need to travel more in the daylight to get their daily allowance without bait piles. If I'm not mistaken, baiting is not allowed where you live correct?
Just as they have learned to go to the cornfields in the evenings, just as they go to the natural grassy clearings in the woods in the evenings. And if someone is baiting, they can set their feeders to feed during daylight hours.
The reality is that deer are and always will be more actively moving and feeding during twilight hours. People who say they turn nocturnal because of feeding obviously don't know much about deer behavior.
Is it legal to feed and bait where you live and hunt?
But anyhow crossbows are completely great option. The new Mission (Mathews) are some nice crossbows and even though I went with si,plicity and got the Excaliber Matrix 380 I am going to give that to my son and get a Mission little more complicated but made in by Wisconsin Company and I support the home grown companies in our State. Plus it is small lite and good performance. I took a nice 140 lb doe two weeks ago with my !atrix and a Rage CB 125 grain expandable human and quick tool for conservation. She dressed out at 140 lbs and went to family who have 6 kids to feed.
Yup CB just another tool and way to get out and hunt I was really impressed with the performance and lethality of the setup. Lots of fun.
Quote from: Houndhead on January 11, 2014, 05:42:58 PM
Quote from: Handles II on January 11, 2014, 10:10:48 AM
Quote from: Houndhead on January 11, 2014, 09:54:10 AM
Quote from: Handles II on January 11, 2014, 07:26:10 AM
Unbelievable. ::)
Deer are more active in their feeding patterns nocturnally no matter where they are, what time of the year it is, or if it's a feeder or a field, and they will always continue to feed, though more sparingly and more often on browse in the woods during the day when they aren't resting . Grandma's feeder doesn't make them nocturnal.
You really come up with some dandy's ramjet.
Actually he is correct. In areas where baiting is allowed deer have learned to stay bedded until dark and then just head to the buffet. They need to travel more in the daylight to get their daily allowance without bait piles. If I'm not mistaken, baiting is not allowed where you live correct?
Just as they have learned to go to the cornfields in the evenings, just as they go to the natural grassy clearings in the woods in the evenings. And if someone is baiting, they can set their feeders to feed during daylight hours.
The reality is that deer are and always will be more actively moving and feeding during twilight hours. People who say they turn nocturnal because of feeding obviously don't know much about deer behavior.
Is it legal to feed and bait where you live and hunt?
Some of the places yes. However I certainly don't need to live in a place that allows baiting to know that deer are more actively feeding during twilight hours and had been doing so long before baiting was a typical practice or to know that the deer are more actively feeding during twilight hours where baiting is not legal.
I drove past a field last night at 10:00 last night (non baiting area) and saw about a dozen deer out feeding in it. Hmm, must be that someone had a feeding station right there. Otherwise those darn deer would be sleeping at night and feeding during the day just like the hunters.
Quote from: ramjet on January 12, 2014, 09:03:28 AM
But anyhow crossbows are completely great option. The new Mission (Mathews) are some nice crossbows and even though I went with si,plicity and got the Excaliber Matrix 380 I am going to give that to my son and get a Mission little more complicated but made in by Wisconsin Company and I support the home grown companies in our State. Plus it is small lite and good performance. I took a nice 140 lb doe two weeks ago with my !atrix and a Rage CB 125 grain expandable human and quick tool for conservation. She dressed out at 140 lbs and went to family who have 6 kids to feed.
Yup CB just another tool and way to get out and hunt I was really impressed with the performance and lethality of the setup. Lots of fun.
Mathews is a well-run company. Have many, many friends who work there.
Quote from: Handles II on January 12, 2014, 10:50:23 AM
Quote from: Houndhead on January 11, 2014, 05:42:58 PM
Quote from: Handles II on January 11, 2014, 10:10:48 AM
Quote from: Houndhead on January 11, 2014, 09:54:10 AM
Quote from: Handles II on January 11, 2014, 07:26:10 AM
Unbelievable. ::)
Deer are more active in their feeding patterns nocturnally no matter where they are, what time of the year it is, or if it's a feeder or a field, and they will always continue to feed, though more sparingly and more often on browse in the woods during the day when they aren't resting . Grandma's feeder doesn't make them nocturnal.
You really come up with some dandy's ramjet.
Actually he is correct. In areas where baiting is allowed deer have learned to stay bedded until dark and then just head to the buffet. They need to travel more in the daylight to get their daily allowance without bait piles. If I'm not mistaken, baiting is not allowed where you live correct?
Just as they have learned to go to the cornfields in the evenings, just as they go to the natural grassy clearings in the woods in the evenings. And if someone is baiting, they can set their feeders to feed during daylight hours.
The reality is that deer are and always will be more actively moving and feeding during twilight hours. People who say they turn nocturnal because of feeding obviously don't know much about deer behavior.
Is it legal to feed and bait where you live and hunt?
Some of the places yes. However I certainly don't need to live in a place that allows baiting to know that deer are more actively feeding during twilight hours and had been doing so long before baiting was a typical practice or to know that the deer are more actively feeding during twilight hours where baiting is not legal.
I drove past a field last night at 10:00 last night (non baiting area) and saw about a dozen deer out feeding in it. Hmm, must be that someone had a feeding station right there. Otherwise those darn deer would be sleeping at night and feeding during the day just like the hunters.
So you have become a self-appointed expert on the behavior of deer that are baited by watching deer feed in a field? I'm sure that outweighs the experiences of people that live and hunt where there is baiting. Are you a polar bear expert also?
Quote from: bigG on January 12, 2014, 12:07:05 PM
Quote from: ramjet on January 12, 2014, 09:03:28 AM
But anyhow crossbows are completely great option. The new Mission (Mathews) are some nice crossbows and even though I went with si,plicity and got the Excaliber Matrix 380 I am going to give that to my son and get a Mission little more complicated but made in by Wisconsin Company and I support the home grown companies in our State. Plus it is small lite and good performance. I took a nice 140 lb doe two weeks ago with my !atrix and a Rage CB 125 grain expandable human and quick tool for conservation. She dressed out at 140 lbs and went to family who have 6 kids to feed.
Yup CB just another tool and way to get out and hunt I was really impressed with the performance and lethality of the setup. Lots of fun.
Mathews is a well-run company. Have many, many friends who work there.
Definitely they stay aggressive in the market and have offerings for most folks needs in archery.
The crossbows they make are really impressive and fun but they listened to the people using them, they made them really compact and used the technology they developed in the compound market and put it use in the crossbow market.
I really like the simplicity of my Excaliber but my son wants to try the crossbow so I will pass my Matrix along to him and I am dealing on the Mission crossbow the one I shot was really impressive. Hopefully I can get my grandson out this fall with my crossbow and let him harvest his first deer that would be real treat.
We are doing a bunny hunt with the recurves and longbows the end of the month that will be allot of fun as well. Love the diversity this State offers in hunting opportunities.
Quote from: Houndhead on January 12, 2014, 01:49:41 PM
Quote from: Handles II on January 12, 2014, 10:50:23 AM
Quote from: Houndhead on January 11, 2014, 05:42:58 PM
Quote from: Handles II on January 11, 2014, 10:10:48 AM
Quote from: Houndhead on January 11, 2014, 09:54:10 AM
Quote from: Handles II on January 11, 2014, 07:26:10 AM
Unbelievable. ::)
Deer are more active in their feeding patterns nocturnally no matter where they are, what time of the year it is, or if it's a feeder or a field, and they will always continue to feed, though more sparingly and more often on browse in the woods during the day when they aren't resting . Grandma's feeder doesn't make them nocturnal.
You really come up with some dandy's ramjet.
Actually he is correct. In areas where baiting is allowed deer have learned to stay bedded until dark and then just head to the buffet. They need to travel more in the daylight to get their daily allowance without bait piles. If I'm not mistaken, baiting is not allowed where you live correct?
Just as they have learned to go to the cornfields in the evenings, just as they go to the natural grassy clearings in the woods in the evenings. And if someone is baiting, they can set their feeders to feed during daylight hours.
The reality is that deer are and always will be more actively moving and feeding during twilight hours. People who say they turn nocturnal because of feeding obviously don't know much about deer behavior.
Is it legal to feed and bait where you live and hunt?
Some of the places yes. However I certainly don't need to live in a place that allows baiting to know that deer are more actively feeding during twilight hours and had been doing so long before baiting was a typical practice or to know that the deer are more actively feeding during twilight hours where baiting is not legal.
I drove past a field last night at 10:00 last night (non baiting area) and saw about a dozen deer out feeding in it. Hmm, must be that someone had a feeding station right there. Otherwise those darn deer would be sleeping at night and feeding during the day just like the hunters.
So you have become a self-appointed expert on the behavior of deer that are baited by watching deer feed in a field? I'm sure that outweighs the experiences of people that live and hunt where there is baiting. Are you a polar bear expert also?
The original claim was that baiting turns deer nocturnal (as opposed to diurnal) and that is the reason to cross roads at night for food. While deer may cross roads at night and may go to bait stations at night, there is not a causation effect in place. Otherwise deer would not cross roads and would not feed at night in non-baiting parts of the state or country which they do all the time and have been doing long before baiting or feeders were ever in the picture.
Quote from: Handles II on January 13, 2014, 07:47:06 AM
Quote from: Houndhead on January 12, 2014, 01:49:41 PM
Quote from: Handles II on January 12, 2014, 10:50:23 AM
Quote from: Houndhead on January 11, 2014, 05:42:58 PM
Quote from: Handles II on January 11, 2014, 10:10:48 AM
Quote from: Houndhead on January 11, 2014, 09:54:10 AM
Quote from: Handles II on January 11, 2014, 07:26:10 AM
Unbelievable. ::)
Deer are more active in their feeding patterns nocturnally no matter where they are, what time of the year it is, or if it's a feeder or a field, and they will always continue to feed, though more sparingly and more often on browse in the woods during the day when they aren't resting . Grandma's feeder doesn't make them nocturnal.
You really come up with some dandy's ramjet.
Actually he is correct. In areas where baiting is allowed deer have learned to stay bedded until dark and then just head to the buffet. They need to travel more in the daylight to get their daily allowance without bait piles. If I'm not mistaken, baiting is not allowed where you live correct?
Just as they have learned to go to the cornfields in the evenings, just as they go to the natural grassy clearings in the woods in the evenings. And if someone is baiting, they can set their feeders to feed during daylight hours.
The reality is that deer are and always will be more actively moving and feeding during twilight hours. People who say they turn nocturnal because of feeding obviously don't know much about deer behavior.
Is it legal to feed and bait where you live and hunt?
Some of the places yes. However I certainly don't need to live in a place that allows baiting to know that deer are more actively feeding during twilight hours and had been doing so long before baiting was a typical practice or to know that the deer are more actively feeding during twilight hours where baiting is not legal.
I drove past a field last night at 10:00 last night (non baiting area) and saw about a dozen deer out feeding in it. Hmm, must be that someone had a feeding station right there. Otherwise those darn deer would be sleeping at night and feeding during the day just like the hunters.
So you have become a self-appointed expert on the behavior of deer that are baited by watching deer feed in a field? I'm sure that outweighs the experiences of people that live and hunt where there is baiting. Are you a polar bear expert also?
The original claim was that baiting turns deer nocturnal (as opposed to diurnal) and that is the reason to cross roads at night for food. While deer may cross roads at night and may go to bait stations at night, there is not a causation effect in place. Otherwise deer would not cross roads and would not feed at night in non-baiting parts of the state or country which they do all the time and have been doing long before baiting or feeders were ever in the picture.
I don't think anyone was saying that only deer that are baited cross roads at night. But I agree with you, all deer cross roads at night. I can't believe I never knew that until you pointed it out. Your knowledge of deer is amazing. Thanks.
Since you already knew that, why did you have to be a choad about it and disagree? What I said was true, you admitted it.
The original post from ramjet is below. Note that it says feeding turns deer nocturnal. That is what I argued and was correct on, yet you argued that I was wrong.
He is correct that it can increase deer road crossings in some places, but so can any type of food, water, cover and land features. So it is not exclusive to feeding.
Yup thats one issue the other is the deer that cross the roads to get to grandmas feeder and cause automobile accidents and allot damage to vehicles. They would not be crossing as much at some places if they were not going to corn feeders. Plus from a hunting stand point the deer turn nocturnal.
Quote from: Handles II on January 13, 2014, 09:07:30 AM
Since you already knew that, why did you have to be a choad about it and disagree? What I said was true, you admitted it.
The original post from ramjet is below. Note that it says feeding turns deer nocturnal. That is what I argued and was correct on, yet you argued that I was wrong.
He is correct that it can increase deer road crossings in some places, but so can any type of food, water, cover and land features. So it is not exclusive to feeding.
Yup thats one issue the other is the deer that cross the roads to get to grandmas feeder and cause automobile accidents and allot damage to vehicles. They would not be crossing as much at some places if they were not going to corn feeders. Plus from a hunting stand point the deer turn nocturnal.
Baiting deer does make them nocturnal. I don't see where he said it was exclusive to feeding. Rams post is 100% correct. You felt a need to argue because you have a hard time admitting Ram is right about anything. He's right. You're wrong. Get over it. You are still correct about all deer crossing roads, so you have that.
What about feeders that deer come to during the day? I know there are many a bar in the north that have deer at the feeder on/off all day and thousands of people have witnessed this. I guess that would be a complete contradiction to your and ramjet's conclusion.
As you said two posts ago. I am right. Thank you for admitting it.
Quote from: Handles II on January 13, 2014, 09:42:16 AM
What about feeders that deer come to during the day? I know there are many a bar in the north that have deer at the feeder on/off all day and thousands of people have witnessed this. I guess that would be a complete contradiction to your and ramjet's conclusion.
As you said two posts ago. I am right. Thank you for admitting it.
I don't think anybody but you thought Ram's post meant feeding makes deer exclusively nocturnal. But I guess you thought it was something you could jump Ram for being wrong about.
Yes, you were right, I admit it. All deer cross roads.
Umm lets ge this down the feeding of deer puts them into pattern because they are nocturnal feeders and because frankly they have to get up and browse every 3-4 hours because of the digestive system they have this is what bait does..........the deer who would normally browse all over the forest and move more frequently if they had to depend on natural browse. But, they congregate in areas that have bait and because it is easy for them and because the cover of darkness gives them security they usually pattern to that security dan they would not naturally do that if they had to eat natural forage. This also makes them suspetable to predators too although they would be if the yarded in cedar swamps too.
Furthermore baiting of deer is for one of two reasons: people want to watch them or people want to kill them.
The later is what is destroying the hunting in Wisconsin we have entire generation of lazy (spoiled) hunters who would rather spend $1000.00 on corn (pumpkins, carrots, sugar beets) than go out and have to scout and find deer or pattern them and really "hunt" the deer as they did many years ago when baiting was not accepted.
The first of the reasons above has a direct correlation to vehicle accidents most of them at night because the deer are congregated and moving to concentrated food source.
Feeding and baiting should be banned completely if for no other reason CWD.
But more so it changes the feeding habits of the animals and takes them from natural feeding habits to predictable and mostly nocturnal feeding habits. That is the facts JACK.
So the people who want to watch deer at their feeder have to do it in the dark because they become nocturnal?
What about all those feeders hit during the day and the thousands of people who have witnessed it?
What you are correct on is that deer will feed on and off throughout the day and night. They will do this regardless of feeders or fields. If the feed they want is close to their bedding area and water, they won't have to travel as far to get what they need so they can remain bedded longer if they like. Is that a pattern? Yes, just as all deer form certain patterns certain times of the year.
To say that baiting turns deer nocturnal is a false statement and if it was true it would mean that it is the exact opposite of what a lazy hunter should do because they would not be able to shoot a deer over bait in the daytime. Obviously and by your own statement about lazy hunters, that isn't true and deer come to bait during the daylight hours. Watch any hunting show that uses bait, or go to some of the dozens of live feeder cams that are on the web and you will see that to be true. Deer will eat day and/or night.
And for your other point. I also dislike the idea of baiting deer, but am not sure where the line should be drawn. What is a small food plot if not baiting? What is hunting over a water hole (which is much more specific and needed by a deer than on singlular type of food) I really don't know and there are some good arguments both ways.
Quote from: Handles II on January 13, 2014, 11:49:26 AM
So the people who want to watch deer at their feeder have to do it in the dark because they become nocturnal?
What about all those feeders hit during the day and the thousands of people who have witnessed it?
What you are correct on is that deer will feed on and off throughout the day and night. They will do this regardless of feeders or fields. If the feed they want is close to their bedding area and water, they won't have to travel as far to get what they need so they can remain bedded longer if they like. Is that a pattern? Yes, just as all deer form certain patterns certain times of the year.
To say that baiting turns deer nocturnal is a false statement and if it was true it would mean that it is the exact opposite of what a lazy hunter should do because they would not be able to shoot a deer over bait in the daytime. Obviously and by your own statement about lazy hunters, that isn't true and deer come to bait during the daylight hours. Watch any hunting show that uses bait, or go to some of the dozens of live feeder cams that are on the web and you will see that to be true. Deer will eat day and/or night.
And for your other point. I also dislike the idea of baiting deer, but am not sure where the line should be drawn. What is a small food plot if not baiting? What is hunting over a water hole (which is much more specific and needed by a deer than on singlular type of food) I really don't know and there are some good arguments both ways.
Just as I thought, your expertise comes from watching TV and web cams. Nobody said deer become exclusively nocturnal. They will certainly come to feeders in the daylight. More so in areas the feel safe, like backyards. To say that feeding them doesn't change their behavior is just ignorant and sounds like it is from an armchair expert.
Quote from: Handles II on January 13, 2014, 11:49:26 AM
So the people who want to watch deer at their feeder have to do it in the dark because they become nocturnal?
What about all those feeders hit during the day and the thousands of people who have witnessed it?
What you are correct on is that deer will feed on and off throughout the day and night. They will do this regardless of feeders or fields. If the feed they want is close to their bedding area and water, they won't have to travel as far to get what they need so they can remain bedded longer if they like. Is that a pattern? Yes, just as all deer form certain patterns certain times of the year.
To say that baiting turns deer nocturnal is a false statement and if it was true it would mean that it is the exact opposite of what a lazy hunter should do because they would not be able to shoot a deer over bait in the daytime. Obviously and by your own statement about lazy hunters, that isn't true and deer come to bait during the daylight hours. Watch any hunting show that uses bait, or go to some of the dozens of live feeder cams that are on the web and you will see that to be true. Deer will eat day and/or night.
And for your other point. I also dislike the idea of baiting deer, but am not sure where the line should be drawn. What is a small food plot if not baiting? What is hunting over a water hole (which is much more specific and needed by a deer than on singlular type of food) I really don't know and there are some good arguments both ways.
Yup food plots brings up an interesting point and certainly adds some complexity to the equation.
But someone dumping 500 lbs of corn to attract bambi so they blast them is not hunting.
As far those who "feed" the deer to watch them I think if they do that they should have to carry liability insurance and cover any damage from car deer collisions in that area.
Your last idea would be pretty tough to make stick.
I agree it would thats why they should just ban feeding of deer problem solved. The fines should be $1000.00 first offense then maybe just maybe people would stop doing it. Heck want to watch wildlife feed the birds they are more interesting than deer anyways.