Whats it going to take?

[OneEyedFatMan]

Unfortunately, as good a coach as Ben may be/is, the problem is with the kids coming up is.... "Ben Who??" He graduated from college about what, 9 years ago? So he finished high school in what...2003? You and I know about Ben, and his passion for the sport, but today's kids are likely more in tune with his Bellator than his wrestling successes. His and Max's school is great, but a lot of guys have schools in Wisconsin now. I will say that Ben is NOT afraid to get his name out there, and of course he could possibly do well as a head coach at a major university.   But I would be willing to bet that the noose the NCAA wraps around a program would be stifling to an entrepreneur such as himself?

Most of these kids don't have a clue who is John Smith, let alone Gable, Kemp, the Petersons....or just how dominant Ben Askren was. So would he really be a bigger draw than anyone else?
Wonder how many kids know who Pat Smith is and what he accomplished? Or Kenny Monday?    

They know Cael Sanderson, because of what he accomplished and also how he seized opportunity when it presented itself. He has coupled winning with his fame, ala Gable.


Guess what I'm saying is....unless you are currently the National Freestyle coach, or head coach/assistant of the NC school, or very VERY recent 2-3 time champ, not likely many of today's top flight wrestlers will be awestruck enough to buy in lock,stock and barrel like so many Gable-ites or Cael-ites of recent times.

I predict that even Kyle Dake will become "passe" soon enough if he doesn't get into the coaching game. Burroughs should retire after this Olympic cycle and get himself a good gig. David Taylor and Ed Ruth aren't going to become the saviors of any program coming up at this point, unless I'm mistaken.

Its H-E- double toothpicks getting old.


Media coverage is huge....Madison gives very little to wrestling. The State Journal/Capital Times offer next to zip to wrestling, gymnastics, track/XC and almost everything to football, basketball and hockey. Radio???   Nothing.  TV---doodley squat.


Randy Lewis, 2 time NCAA champ and 2 time Olympian told me this " I went to visit several campuses upon graduating ( we finished 9th in state his senior year, after 2nd, 1st and 1st), I wanted to go to a WINNING program, with great coaching, and perform in front of a lot of people".  

He vacillated between Iowa and Okie State, but decided Iowa was the place for him. They had great media coverage, huge crowds, and were winners. And they had Dan Gable. He went on to finish 2nd, 1st, 1st and 7th (big injury) with no redshirts at the NCAAs, with an 84 match win streak going before the injury.



Kleven/Hellickson kept Lee Kemp in the room from 1975-84, and had quite a few great recruiting classes. He also had Reinwand, Haines, Soucie, Ben Peterson, Rein and Hull sticking around to train, with guest coaches Ichiguchi and Horiuchi. Pretty big time draws, for sure. Wisconsin was typically finishing pretty high in the last half of the 70s. Half the team made AA in 80.


Its going to take a effort to haul in the kids you want. Collective effort.  Iowa had Gable and Roy Carver . OKie State has John Smith and presumably backing from T Boone Pickens? PSU has the great state of Pennsylvania and Cael.   Wisconsin used to have a 3 time World Champ and the backing of the Dairy industry of Wisconsin. Our boys were actively sent out to many schools to run clinics sponsored by the dairy association, and we also wrestled exhibitions at places like Mineral Point, Sun Prairie and the like. This is called marketing- new concept I know.  And if the media outlets won't help, you've got to do it yourself ( and alert the media in the process).

UW doesn't have any Jordan Burroughs guys right now, but if you do those other things, you would be surprised how far a little oomph in the sales aspect will go.

Give em something to talk about.    

[Barou]

Unfortunately, as good a coach as Ben may be/is, the problem is with the kids coming up is.... "Ben Who??" He graduated from college about what, 9 years ago? So he finished high school in what...2003? You and I know about Ben, and his passion for the sport, but today's kids are likely more in tune with his Bellator than his wrestling successes. His and Max's school is great, but a lot of guys have schools in Wisconsin now. I will say that Ben is NOT afraid to get his name out there, and of course he could possibly do well as a head coach at a major university.   But I would be willing to bet that the noose the NCAA wraps around a program would be stifling to an entrepreneur such as himself?

Most of these kids don't have a clue who is John Smith, let alone Gable, Kemp, the Petersons....or just how dominant Ben Askren was. So would he really be a bigger draw than anyone else?
Wonder how many kids know who Pat Smith is and what he accomplished? Or Kenny Monday?    

They know Cael Sanderson, because of what he accomplished and also how he seized opportunity when it presented itself. He has coupled winning with his fame, ala Gable.


Guess what I'm saying is....unless you are currently the National Freestyle coach, or head coach/assistant of the NC school, or very VERY recent 2-3 time champ, not likely many of today's top flight wrestlers will be awestruck enough to buy in lock,stock and barrel like so many Gable-ites or Cael-ites of recent times.

I predict that even Kyle Dake will become "passe" soon enough if he doesn't get into the coaching game. Burroughs should retire after this Olympic cycle and get himself a good gig. David Taylor and Ed Ruth aren't going to become the saviors of any program coming up at this point, unless I'm mistaken.

Its H-E- double toothpicks getting old.


Media coverage is huge....Madison gives very little to wrestling. The State Journal/Capital Times offer next to zip to wrestling, gymnastics, track/XC and almost everything to football, basketball and hockey. Radio???   Nothing.  TV---doodley squat.


Randy Lewis, 2 time NCAA champ and 2 time Olympian told me this " I went to visit several campuses upon graduating ( we finished 9th in state his senior year, after 2nd, 1st and 1st), I wanted to go to a WINNING program, with great coaching, and perform in front of a lot of people".  

He vacillated between Iowa and Okie State, but decided Iowa was the place for him. They had great media coverage, huge crowds, and were winners. And they had Dan Gable. He went on to finish 2nd, 1st, 1st and 7th (big injury) with no redshirts at the NCAAs, with an 84 match win streak going before the injury.



Kleven/Hellickson kept Lee Kemp in the room from 1975-84, and had quite a few great recruiting classes. He also had Reinwand, Haines, Soucie, Ben Peterson, Rein and Hull sticking around to train, with guest coaches Ichiguchi and Horiuchi. Pretty big time draws, for sure. Wisconsin was typically finishing pretty high in the last half of the 70s. Half the team made AA in 80.


Its going to take a effort to haul in the kids you want. Collective effort.  Iowa had Gable and Roy Carver . OKie State has John Smith and presumably backing from T Boone Pickens? PSU has the great state of Pennsylvania and Cael.   Wisconsin used to have a 3 time World Champ and the backing of the Dairy industry of Wisconsin. Our boys were actively sent out to many schools to run clinics sponsored by the dairy association, and we also wrestled exhibitions at places like Mineral Point, Sun Prairie and the like. This is called marketing- new concept I know.  And if the media outlets won't help, you've got to do it yourself ( and alert the media in the process).

UW doesn't have any Jordan Burroughs guys right now, but if you do those other things, you would be surprised how far a little oomph in the sales aspect will go.

Give em something to talk about.    

I'd be willing to bet Askren is still a very familiar name in the wrestling community and not just in Wisconsin.  He brought flare into a sport that needed it (still needs more of it).  It appeared he was a natural leader at Mizzou (can't confirm for sure).  I would like to know how he relates to kids at his academy.  The notion that he doesn't have name recognition outside of WI is untrue....at least IMO.  Talking to wrestling people I know outside of the state they are very familiar with Askren.  Many people seem to be aware that even though he went to Missouri he is a Wisconsin native.

[Ghetto]

I'd say that having an MMA background would also bring in guys who might want to go down that road after college.

Also, I would guess Ben would bring more media coverage just by being him. And if he couldn't get them to come to him, he'd go to them.

[jaguarwrestler]

I'd say that having an MMA background would also bring in guys who might want to go down that road after college.

Also, I would guess Ben would bring more media coverage just by being him. And if he couldn't get them to come to him, he'd go to them.

you can bet he would promote the team in new ways and he would put more butts in the stands. I would love to see him have a shot, I don't think it will happen but I would love to see it.

[Barou]

I'd say that having an MMA background would also bring in guys who might want to go down that road after college.

Also, I would guess Ben would bring more media coverage just by being him. And if he couldn't get them to come to him, he'd go to them.

I bet you are 100% right!  Ben doesn't seem like the type of guy that just works with things that come to him.  I would bet when it comes to wrestler limits, coaching limits, etc. he will actually be very proactive in increasing those numbers.  He seems more like a "find a way" kind of guy not a "this is what we have to work with" kind of guy.  As far as the media I think he would get UW "out there".  In football and basketball they don't have to promote their sport, the media comes to them.  With wrestling I bet Ben will consistently splash media outlets with news stories.  It will be better.

[OneEyedFatMan]

You guys are forgetting some things.....



Andy Rein was a dynamic wrestler, and his wife Suzi a great marketer. He brought in good kids ( an Apple Valley wrestler comes to mind-Matt Demaray, as well as David Lee), as well as assistants Dave Schultz and John Azevedo. Three Olympians with 3 NCAA championships and several world level/olympic medals between them. Andy's boys still love to get together with him- they are great friends many to this day.

Andy Rein raised about $400 grand for a new wrestling room once upon a time- it was promised to him below the McClain Center. "Somebody" harped about it, however, and the wrestlers were relegated back to the concrete columns- to be "placated"  with a different room, but with a new set of concrete columns.

Andy was undercut by the administration ( Joel Maturi) and not renewed for very minor indiscretions - one of them was a couple of visiting boys from Japan just wanted to work out in the room.
   Overall   Big Ten         
Year       W-L-T   Pct.   W-L-T   Pct.   Place   B1G champs   All-Americans   Coach
1986-87    15-6-0   .714   7-1-0   .875   2nd   1   2   Andy Rein
1987-88    10-7-0   .588   5-3-0   .625   4th   2   3   Andy Rein
1988-89    8-5-1           .607   4-4-0   .500   7th   1   2   Andy Rein
1989-90   10-8-1   .553   3-4-1   .438   7th   0   1   Andy Rein
1990-91   12-4-1   .735   6-2-0   .750   4th   1   1   Andy Rein
1991-92   14-5-0   .737   6-1-0   .857   2nd   1   3   Andy Rein
1992-93   12-6-0   .667   3-4-0   .429   6th   1   2   Andy Rein

You have to admit you had a very good coach in Rein, with 2 seconds and a 4th in the Big Ten 7 years. And a hustler, as evidenced by his campaign to make the wrestling room a good one.

But, Alvarez/Richter stymied the room below the football workout areas, and Maturi chopped Andy's tenure off.

I'm just saying...there have been tremendous efforts in the past to make this program great, but seems there is a resident evil in the background that just doesn't want uber-success.

Our staff is working hard to make a success- let's stay behind them- who knows what they are fighting in the background of all this?

[Micah]

I loved Andy Rein growing up, the guy definitely had a magnetic personality about him.  A guy in my home town is a pretty big badger backer and we would get smaller clinics with Andy and his wrestlers growing up.  Loved his Garbukoff story about getting out of a hold nobody else could, if you what story I am talking about you know why it's funny.

[imnofish]

I loved Andy Rein growing up, the guy definitely had a magnetic personality about him.  A guy in my home town is a pretty big badger backer and we would get smaller clinics with Andy and his wrestlers growing up.  Loved his Garbukoff story about getting out of a hold nobody else could, if you what story I am talking about you know why it's funny.

I think I heard it; something about getting out of the pretzel hold, right?  That one is hilarious!  My boy went to many of Rein's commuter camps, as well as camps at Madison.  He did a great job of reaching out to the wrestling community throughout the state, including small schools up in the north.  Too bad Barry hasn't done that.

[Micah]

I loved Andy Rein growing up, the guy definitely had a magnetic personality about him.  A guy in my home town is a pretty big badger backer and we would get smaller clinics with Andy and his wrestlers growing up.  Loved his Garbukoff story about getting out of a hold nobody else could, if you what story I am talking about you know why it's funny.

I think I heard it; something about getting out of the pretzel hold, right?  That one is hilarious!  My boy went to many of Rein's commuter camps, as well as camps at Madison.  He did a great job of reaching out to the wrestling community throughout the state, including small schools up in the north.  Too bad Barry hasn't done that.

Yes, it's about getting out of a hold!

[whatever]

Does it have to do with said wrestler biting something hanging in his face?

[Micah]

Does it have to do with said wrestler biting something hanging in his face?

Grabbing something lol but it turns out to be his own.

[vsmf2010]

Does it have to do with said wrestler biting something hanging in his face?

Grabbing something lol but it turns out to be his own.

Five on Two?

[Micah]

Yes, and the way Rein told it was hilarious!