Would kids moving to clubs help or hurt the future?

[joeski]

Have read a lot of talk the last few months on how kids should just go to clubs. Not everyone that reads on here posts there opinion. So let's try to find out what everyone thinks. What would happen, if the ms and hs kids said that's enough. I don't want to wear a mask, I want to wrestle, and the parents take them. Not trying to start arguments with people. Hopefully most people just vote, and leave the political slants out, please.

[littleguy301]

Over all I think it would hinder the growth of the sport. There would be less kids going out.

I dont think it would be a good thing going all club and nomschool.

[MNbadger]

If we consider greater numbers as a positive, losing school wrestling will hurt wrestling overall.

[DarkKnight]

I haven't seen any problems with the masks. They work fine and kids are doing well. Don't get so caught up about the masks... They will help a postseason happen.

Kids can do clubs in the offseason all they want.

Alot of kids wrestle for their school and that's pretty much it.

[bigG]

Agreed 100%. I think there is now a light at the end of the tunnel.

I'm all for clubs, bit not clubs only. Schools + clubs= better for wrestling.

[ramjet]

Have read a lot of talk the last few months on how kids should just go to clubs. Not everyone that reads on here posts there opinion. So let's try to find out what everyone thinks. What would happen, if the ms and hs kids said that's enough. I don't want to wear a mask, I want to wrestle, and the parents take them. Not trying to start arguments with people. Hopefully most people just vote, and leave the political slants out, please.

People vote their slants most of the followers on their page are in public education what do think the results of this will be on this site?

[dman]

I think it is a hard question to answer because it all depends on a lot of things.  To ask the question with nothing else changing and keeping everything as it is today, of course it would "hurt" wrestling to go away from school affiliated wrestling and move to all club wrestling.  But if you couldn't have school wrestling or it continues to be run without using common sense and their is a revolt, I think club wrestling is a very viable productive option...IF some changes are made (ex., cost structures, proximity of practice facilities to average households, transportation, governing body, parental involvement, etc.).  But to say going to club will unequivocally hurt the sport is pretty disingenuous and shows one's lack of ability to think outside of the box.

Me personally, I like that sports are affiliated with schools for many many reasons (tie to academics, school pride, parental involvement, opportunity for all kids, etc.).  But I also think, if the sport had to, moving to a club format can be as successful if done correctly.  Heck...half of the problem with our support is most of us "hard core wrestling people" don't want to change and think outside of the box...I know I have been guilty of it a time or two...but the core of the sport can be protected while still thinking way differently about how things currently are run and we make bold drastic changes.  Wearing a mask isn't one of those bold changes either...if it is what is needed to satisfy some bureaucrats sitting in an office somewhere, worried they will get sued if someone gets sick, than so be it...the kids have suffered enough already through this nonsense, at least getting a few matches this year (unless you live in Dane Co.) is a good thing.  But I also don't think the WIAA gets a free pass and voices of disagreement should be heard.

[madeyson]

Coming from my perspective as a parent that supports our wrestlers to attend a private club - and believe we have a good number of great private clubs in Wisconsin - I think it would be a detriment to the sport. To really answer the question of would it really help or hurt the future - what are you going to use as the metric for success or failure:

- Total number of participants in the sport
- Total number of programs in wrestling
- Fan support at events
- Number of collegiate programs with wrestling
- Success at the international level

Each one of these could create a different answer. Even with the private clubs, filling a team with seasonal and multi-sport athletes is great for the recognition of the sport. If it was only a club sport - would Alec Ingold have wrestled? Would he give the sport some of the exposure he have given it? I have seen many...many good wrestlers contribute to their high school teams in a major way - do we really want to see that go away?

Other states have created a successful model, WI has had some success - I would prefer to put the effort towards figuring out how to make our current model better (post-COVID).

[DocWrestling]

Clubs are crucial for helping the most motivated and most talented athletes to get the most of that drive and skill.

But if wrestling shifted to an all club model it would kill the sport especially the team aspect and dual.

Wrestling Clubs, AAU basketball, Select Baseball, and Club soccer are all created to make a profit and then advance the athlete.  This is the privatization of sports.  They have a much higher cost without tax support (pay of coaches and supplying facility, mats, equipment, etc) and the for profit model.  These private programs are great for the individuals but a detriment of the sport.

Why would numbers plummet?
1) Going to nothing but clubs would immediately reduce the number of kids wrestling by 50% at the high school level.  This would be due to geography, time, and money.  The convenience and availability of practicing right after school at school would be gone.  It would have an even larger effect at youth levels where fewer kids would be exposed in local programs
2) Over time after eliminating all the seasonal wrestlers there are less wrestlers for the club wrestlers to compete against and the easy wins are gone.  The average club wrestlers that go 25-15 during the high school season now go 15-25 during a club season.
3) Slowly the snowball grows and you have only the best wrestlers competing.  Again great for them but not for the sport.  Kids want to get their hand raised and win championships to warrant the cost and time.
4) Ultimately there is no doubt that you will have fewer programs and fewer wrestlers which dwindles over time leading to more costs and time based on more kids falling prey to geography.
5) Soccer, baseball, and basketball have developed some way of having B teams, C teams, etc that allow more kids to compete which could be a path.

Club wrestling...
How many kids on the team today would pay more to wrestle?
How many kids on the team would go to practice at a private facility with practice time in the evening when coaches are available?
How many kids on your team would travel to another community if there was not a club in their community?

[3boys]

Having been a varsity coach and parent of two wrestlers I would say that going all club would hurt H.S. wrestling. My youngest son benifited greatly from the club aspect. Wrestling in national tournaments and working out with great partners allowed him to have a successful H.S. career and wrestle at the D-III level. As a coach as I tried to build a program I recruited anybody I could. we quickly became the spot where the principal or counselor pushed many kids to us that most people would not recruit. In other words they needed us more than we needed them. WE became a safe haven for some kids, some turned out tyo be very successful wrestlers some not so much but most of them their in school behavior and grades made them eligible to compete. This is what I think H.S. sports is all about. Clubs would not allow those kids a place.

[tomfox]

I have three boys and all have wrestled. My youngest is a senior this year and had/ hopefully has a shot at placing at State this year. If I had to do it all over I would either home school, send to private school or have my kids do virtual school. Along with that I would recommend club sports. I just found out tonight no meet again this week. We might have 1 high school match in December. We plan on going to the Dells tourney and are able to pick up anywhere from 2-4 matches in one day.

[Wrestling Novice]

It would set the sport back significantly.  Especially if the clubs would put together a state championship to compete with the WIAA.  More freedom and opportunities for the athlete. 

Once the stars switch to club, this reduces the want for your average Joes of joining. 

Bottom line for me if the WIAA doesn't relax it's rules, I would encourage the wrestlers especially the juniors and seniors tondo what is in their best interest.

[bulldog]

I am interested in what information anyone is basing the statement that going to club would hurt the sport? I look at sports like gymnastics, swimming, and other sports that have a strong club following and it doesn't seem to be hurting those sports. From what I have read, club gymnastics and swimming are recruited more by colleges than their HS equivalent. Looking at club gymnastics the athlete benefits by having access to a gym that is dedicated to their sport. Not shoved in the corner of the school only to be pushed aside as soon as spring baseball starts up.

Doc...I appreciate your comments but is HS sports really about getting your hand raised? Or is it about learning some valuable life lessons? Kids who work at the sport and put the time in will get their hands raised.

3boys...I also see your point...I too have seen the HS principle push kids to wrestling because "they have no place else to be"...but is that really what wrestling should be? "HEY...I can't compete at anything else so...wrestling".

[littleguy301]

I am interested in what information anyone is basing the statement that going to club would hurt the sport? I look at sports like gymnastics, swimming, and other sports that have a strong club following and it doesn't seem to be hurting those sports. From what I have read, club gymnastics and swimming are recruited more by colleges than their HS equivalent. Looking at club gymnastics the athlete benefits by having access to a gym that is dedicated to their sport. Not shoved in the corner of the school only to be pushed aside as soon as spring baseball starts up.

Doc...I appreciate your comments but is HS sports really about getting your hand raised? Or is it about learning some valuable life lessons? Kids who work at the sport and put the time in will get their hands raised.

3boys...I also see your point...I too have seen the HS principle push kids to wrestling because "they have no place else to be"...but is that really what wrestling should be? "HEY...I can't compete at anything else so...wrestling".

Bulldog.......you answered the question with a statement that rings true.

How many schools have swimming, gymnastics and those other clubs sport types. I would bet many more schools have wrestling than those sports.

Certainly clubs will do alot ofmgood but if youngomclub wrestling I seriously doubt that all the clubs in Wisconsin could handle handle that amount of kids.

If only 10% of the kids go to clubs and some clubs have waiting list I doubt they can handle 50% of all,high schoolmwrestlers along with the youth. Space and time would be a concern.

Clubs are awesome to say the least, not sure if they are built to take over the state of wrestling

[bigG]

They'd help the top 10%. might get 20% do afford and do club. Leaves a whole lot of kids behind.