Alternate regional formats

ramjet · February 10, 2018, 05:41:49 PM

Quote from: PCA on February 10, 2018, 10:36:45 AM
Not releasing information until 11

That's is hilarious

wrestling123 · February 10, 2018, 07:50:17 PM

Since Super Regional keeps getting shot down due to 6 matches I like the idea of having a coaches meeting to seed the top 8 teams in a sectional to separate between the 4 regionals. All other teams disbursed based on potential participants/location.

AZKing · February 11, 2018, 12:17:21 AM

The only change in the process needs to be seeding at the state tournament.

Every year good wrestlers stay home from the state tournament because there were other buzzsaws in their sectional. It happens. You learn to improve. If we set the bar low and are trying to reach the state tournament as some sort of benchmark...we are setting kids up for failure. Although, Making it to the dance...it's exciting. That's why it's special...because it's not suppose to be easy. The whole goal is to win.

Adjusting a system that has worked for years to benefit the few who can't break through for whatever reason isn't going to be better for anyone. Demanding it be changed isn't the solution. Hard work is...

grasshopper · February 11, 2018, 01:06:00 AM

Quote from: AZKing on February 11, 2018, 12:17:21 AM
The only change in the process needs to be seeding at the state tournament.

Every year good wrestlers stay home from the state tournament because there were other buzzsaws in their sectional. It happens. You learn to improve. If we set the bar low and are trying to reach the state tournament as some sort of benchmark...we are setting kids up for failure. Although, Making it to the dance...it's exciting. That's why it's special...because it's not suppose to be easy. The whole goal is to win.

Adjusting a system that has worked for years to benefit the few who can't break through for whatever reason isn't going to be better for anyone. Demanding it be changed isn't the solution. Hard work is...

Most of the people advocating change aren't saying we should expand the number of state tournament participants, so I'm not certain how the you get the impression that people want to "lower the bar" in terms of qualifying for the state tournament. Rather most of the suggestions are attempting to make sure the RIGHT wrestlers are representing their areas at state and sectionals. You say that the state tournament should be seeded, and I'm assuming that is because you want the right 2 wrestlers (the best 2) to be showcased in the state finals matches. That same concept is what many people on this thread are looking to accomplish, just at the regional/sectional level.
The fact is that there are currently weight classes where there are BYES at some sectional tournaments, while some 30 win wrestlers are left at home following regionals is ridiculous. To me allowing this to happen seems more like "lowering the bar" than altering the format to help increase the odds that only the best available competition represent their areas at sectionals and state.

AZKing · February 11, 2018, 01:40:22 AM

Division one has no need for an alternate format for regionals or sectionals. There are no 30 win wrestlers staying home from sectionals unless they didn't perform like a 30 win wrestler at regionals. I'm just saying everything can't always be deemed "fair." It's the whole concept of the Wiaa pursuing the champion and not being overly concerned with those who aren't crowned King.

ramjet · February 11, 2018, 07:42:36 AM

King you are missing the point the setup as it stands today has sectional competition at SOME of the regionals. Other regionals allow kids to walk through. Combining regionals will and expanding the qualifiers allows for tough entertaining wrestling without walk throughs or qualifying with wrestling one match or only one match. Keep track of the percentage of kids from the NLC for example that get through to the State tournament.

In looking at this NLC has a good chance to get 3-4 wrestlers through to State.

AZKing · February 11, 2018, 09:49:49 AM

There are so many teams that cannot even come close to competing with the teams that qualify for team state. Why waste time and a tournament for teams to get hammered by schools who can fill lineups with quality talent? The current system at The D1 Level in my mind works fair enough. No D1 regional has sectional competition. I'd take that to the bank. I can't speak for D2 or D3.

It just seems to me that little Timmy got beat out and didn't qualify and the me me me society of today is trying to come to the rescue. Wrestling is like life. It's hard and not always fair. We get our children involved because we want them to learn the lessons wrestling taught us. Trying to accommodate and make sure it's an even playing field promotes a culture of children who think that's how real life works - and ta dah! It isn't! If you can put up then get out...that's how the real world operates. Either get the job done or we'll find someone else than can. Don't you want your children to learn those crucial life lessons before they're playing for keeps? I sure do. It's not always easy to swallow but sometimes taking a L is the best motivation and life lesson at the time.

And 70 percent? They only take four kids. That's like saying most brackets have <6 athletes. Checking various brackets that differs a lot from my observation.

grasshopper · February 11, 2018, 10:58:32 AM

Quote from: AZKing on February 11, 2018, 09:49:49 AM
There are so many teams that cannot even come close to competing with the teams that qualify for team state. Why waste time and a tournament for teams to get hammered by schools who can fill lineups with quality talent? The current system at The D1 Level in my mind works fair enough. No D1 regional has sectional competition. I'd take that to the bank. I can't speak for D2 or D3.

It just seems to me that little Timmy got beat out and didn't qualify and the me me me society of today is trying to come to the rescue. Wrestling is like life. It's hard and not always fair. We get our children involved because we want them to learn the lessons wrestling taught us. Trying to accommodate and make sure it's an even playing field promotes a culture of children who think that's how real life works - and ta dah! It isn't! If you can put up then get out...that's how the real world operates. Either get the job done or we'll find someone else than can. Don't you want your children to learn those crucial life lessons before they're playing for keeps? I sure do. It's not always easy to swallow but sometimes taking a L is the best motivation and life lesson at the time.

And 70 percent? They only take four kids. That's like saying most brackets have <6 athletes. Checking various brackets that differs a lot from my observation.

I can't speak for everyone else, but I believe that most of the suggestions and comments on this thread are talking about D2 and D3 formats (I know most of mine have). Perhaps if I explain the current D2 and D3 systems you will get what most people are trying to get at. (I am not trying to sound condescending when I say this, I just do not know based on your last comment if you are familiar with the D2/3 system. In D2/D3 regionals the top 2 move on to sectionals, there are 4 regionals per sectional (making an 8 man sectional bracket), and 3 wrestlers move on from sectionals onto state (making a 12 man state bracket). You advocate for the current D1 system,which allows 4 to move on from each regional and only 2 from sectionals. This is a similar concept that many of us want to achieve at the D2/3 level, that is avoiding a bottleneck at regionals that will sort out the potential 3rd place qualifier for the state tournament in the regionals. As for your comment about "There are no 30 win wrestlers staying home from sectionals if they wrestled like a 30 win wrestler", you are completely wrong in regards to D2 and D3. Look at the Stratford regional and you will see what I am talking about (some brackets had 3-4 wrestlers with at least 70% win percentages), while another regional in that sectional had less than 40 total wrestlers (an average of less than 3 wrestlers per bracket). If you combine these two regionals you would improve the quality of wrestling at sectionals and wouldn't be "rewarding" kids for "just showing up" at the smaller regional.

ramjet · February 11, 2018, 06:11:32 PM

Quote from: AZKing on February 11, 2018, 09:49:49 AM
There are so many teams that cannot even come close to competing with the teams that qualify for team state. Why waste time and a tournament for teams to get hammered by schools who can fill lineups with quality talent? The current system at The D1 Level in my mind works fair enough. No D1 regional has sectional competition. I'd take that to the bank. I can't speak for D2 or D3.

It just seems to me that little Timmy got beat out and didn't qualify and the me me me society of today is trying to come to the rescue. Wrestling is like life. It's hard and not always fair. We get our children involved because we want them to learn the lessons wrestling taught us. Trying to accommodate and make sure it's an even playing field promotes a culture of children who think that's how real life works - and ta dah! It isn't! If you can put up then get out...that's how the real world operates. Either get the job done or we'll find someone else than can. Don't you want your children to learn those crucial life lessons before they're playing for keeps? I sure do. It's not always easy to swallow but sometimes taking a L is the best motivation and life lesson at the time.

And 70 percent? They only take four kids. That's like saying most brackets have <6 athletes. Checking various brackets that differs a lot from my observation.

You are missing the point.