Alternate regional formats

[DocWrestling]

If the sixth match is a hang-up can't we wrestle that last round of matches at the same venue as the team state duals that happen on that Tuesday?

Wrestle that last round on that Tuesday night.

Or the Tuesday or Thursday night prior to regionals is a dead time with nothing going on.  Maybe you bring in the kids that are sub .500 for a pre-tournament that night.  Now you have already started to eliminate some wrestlers but does not affect everyone?

I still think the easiest way is to have all coaches submit their lineups and just eliminate however many of the worst records you need to do complete the regionals in one day with match limitations.  Make kids earn the right to compete in the post season.  Not everyone has to qualify for regionals and waste are round of wrestling eliminating them.

Of course this means changing the idiotic way team state teams are decided by starting with regionals tournament results

[FoldEmUp]

The easiest fix, and what makes the most sense to not have the 6th match issue is if you lose your first match you're done.  No wrestleback.  That's exactly what we have in the first round at state.  You lose your first match at state (other than sectional champions) and you don't have an opportunity to wrestle for 3rd. You're done.  And let's be honest, when putting two regionals together, what wrestler who loses in the first round at such a regional deserves a chance to continue on?  You'd be losing to a really poor wrestler.

[shouldvewrestled]

FoldEmUp and Quad have the best idea I feel to keep 5 match limit rule worry out of the way. Not sure it helps with the team worry aspect if we don't change that system in some way too.    

Teamwise if we don't want to add another event, we could then take top 4 teams from each regional. Seed the 8 teams. Two sites 1, 4, 5, 8 seeds and 2, 3, 6, 7 wrestle 2 duals for team sectionals, take both winners to state. Reseed at state.  I know this still uses individual tournament for team series but gets rid of the problem of second best teams lose out in tough regional. D2/D3 anyway.

[DocWrestling]

If you want to invite everyone to regionals then allow kids through their coaches to register for either the gold bracket where the top kids move on to sectionals and state OR register for the silver division where they get another tournament against similar ability kids for quality matches at the end of the year and a chance to win a tournament.  Those in the silver division cannot advance.  Now everyone is getting quality wrestling opportunities and you will not have match limit issues.  Essentially eliminates all the silly first round matches that end in pin.  Now your less talented wrestlers don't have to show up get pinned and sit around and watch the rest of the day on another Saturday they gave up.

[DarkKnight]

I'm all for growth and positive change. So any change that gives the top wrestlers a better chance to get to state, along with the top teams, has my vote.

[imnofish]

We don't have to totally reinvent the wheel.  Illinois has a great model that we could apply here.  Check it out.

[DarkKnight]

The easiest fix, and what makes the most sense to not have the 6th match issue is if you lose your first match you're done.  No wrestleback.  That's exactly what we have in the first round at state.  You lose your first match at state (other than sectional champions) and you don't have an opportunity to wrestle for 3rd. You're done.  And let's be honest, when putting two regionals together, what wrestler who loses in the first round at such a regional deserves a chance to continue on?  You'd be losing to a really poor wrestler.

Whens it's a 2nd against a 3rd placer, I agree, the loser should be 1 and done.

But I'm strongly for seeding the teams and creating the regionals in the first week of January, after teams are formed and ranked, I'm sure the rankings are made based off performance and not just pure guess.

The rankings can't ever be perfect,  But they're generally pretty close.

[ramjet]

The easiest fix, and what makes the most sense to not have the 6th match issue is if you lose your first match you're done.  No wrestleback.  That's exactly what we have in the first round at state.  You lose your first match at state (other than sectional champions) and you don't have an opportunity to wrestle for 3rd. You're done.  And let's be honest, when putting two regionals together, what wrestler who loses in the first round at such a regional deserves a chance to continue on?  You'd be losing to a really poor wrestler.

Whens it's a 2nd against a 3rd placer, I agree, the loser should be 1 and done.

But I'm strongly for seeding the teams and creating the regionals in the first week of January, after teams are formed and ranked, I'm sure the rankings are made based off performance and not just pure guess.

The rankings can't ever be perfect,  But they're generally pretty close.

Team rankings yes are pretty accurate. Individual after the top 3 not so sure. Not saying the committe is doing a bad job they can only work with the information that is available and there is not enough hours in a day for them to delve into the details.

[grasshopper]

Is there another reason to have divisions for individual wrestling at all, other than "Get more guys trophies"?

I'd argue that it may help with wrestling participation numbers, especially in the small schools. The goal of one day getting to the state tournament is a big motivation factor for wrestlers are struggling to succeed as underclassmen. If there is one division and less total available spots at the state tournament that may deter some of the kids who are currently on the fence about continuing to wrestle . With numbers down right now as it is that could potentially drop them further. (This is just speculation though, I also see value in having only 1 or 2 divisions for the individual tournament as well)

[foose4]

Is there another reason to have divisions for individual wrestling at all, other than "Get more guys trophies"?

There are divisions in every other individual sport also (tennis, CC, Track).  Why would we make wrestling different?   What is the rationale for 1 division?   Is it really that bad that 42 kids win a individual state championship instead of 14?   Don't see the world ending if we keep it with divisions.

If your going to say "So we see who is the best is at 113 instead of having 3 kids" then it's about what you personally want and not what's best for the sport or sports in general.

[awaFan]

Good Luck to ALL at Regionals!!

[imnofish]

Is there another reason to have divisions for individual wrestling at all, other than "Get more guys trophies"?

There are divisions in every other individual sport also (tennis, CC, Track).  Why would we make wrestling different?   What is the rationale for 1 division?   Is it really that bad that 42 kids win a individual state championship instead of 14?   Don't see the world ending if we keep it with divisions.

If your going to say "So we see who is the best is at 113 instead of having 3 kids" then it's about what you personally want and not what's best for the sport or sports in general.

+1

[ramjet]

yea it all depends on the Coaches being united and pushing for a specific aspect. The issue some are so stubborn in there personal beliefs they "would let a sport die on the vine rather than change".

I can say this the NLC is looking to eliminate the conference tournament. The talk has been going on for years yet they have some that feel that conference trophy is of great importance. Frankly it may be to some kids. I do know this kids will live UP or DOWN to expectations. Set the bar high and give them the tools they will try thier hearts out.

The issue is not the sport not even coaches , WIAA or school budgets. It is a culture that was started years ago that is the "everyone gets a trophy" and "it's ok to quit if you do not like it" these cultural changes have had very negative impacts on the sport and our society. Now notice I did not say you pound younger kids into the ground by pushing high competitive activities at a young age but a balance of fun and fellowship developed through team work and compeitition. Goal setting and working to achieve those goals. Walk through to the Scrional tournament is a direct result of the culture we allowed this sport to be part of. I am going to tick off some people (what's new) Clubs and private organizations have the right formula , if you go into those rooms and you will find some hard working dedicated athletes and families that are not beholden to the political pressures the public schools are. A they are not beholden to the WIAA and its political pressures. Off season programs even those in the schools are a much more relaxed but intense experience but those who gravitate towards those programs and clubs have the commitment and dedication and drive to try achieve set goals. Goals they set goals void of politics and regulation goals that have the support of thier families. A they must feel it's worth it some pay thier hard earned money to be there.

So Fareast Whizzer you have it right and it works in Greco and Freestyle one class one champion and a big room full of dedicated athletes that have set goals for themselves and a support system that encourages the acheivement of goals of the individual and the team. A system void of most political and societal pressures that come with tax payer funded programs.

Coaches are the key put a group of business men club owners in a room they will find a compromise and work things out for the big picture. Tax payer funded public schools/coaches have a tough time even coming to the table. Not all but we can say the majority or this situation would have been fixed years ago.

[dad 2 5]

Can't get track to load the brackets for Sun Prairie. Wonder what is up...

[PCA]

Not releasing information until 11