Best wrestling programs

[shouldvewrestled]

What this really cements for me is that Kaukauna, Ellsworth, and Luxemburg-Casco are relatively new phenomena, while Stoughton, Rapids, Coleman, and Mineral Point have more longevity as programs. If I do this post again in 10 years, I'd expect to see Kaukauna near the top.

Excuse me...Ellsworth has, as a meaningful force, been around since the late 1970s and consistently been a "player" in the team title equation; they aren't "relatively new" to the equation.

From the beginning of the earth until 1992, Ellsworth had one second place finish and no first place finish.

1992 is recent?

We've been giving out team state titles since 1940.

Yes, but it was a totally different dynamic back then.  Still, they have been a strong program for more than 40 years, with plenty of good individuals.  Sorry, but that's not what I would call recent.  To be clear, I am not from Ellsworth, but I've watched them pretty closely for the past 40 years and they were already strong before I came to the area.  

Your opinion is noted.

I'm not offering an opinion. I'm simply saying that every single Ellsworth title, along with 7 of their 8 runner up finishes have come since we went to the dual format. You literally can't contest these facts. They are inarguable. I'm sorry if they hurt someone's feelings.

Do you even know who Kirby Symes is? You are arguing with people who have actually lived the wrestling history your data claims to know more about. You claim people who don't agree with you have the IQ of 5 year olds. Maybe sometimes instead of trying to be right you should ask questions about the true history of wrestling and listening to people like imnofish. You'll learn more from them than any spread sheet you can make.

[littleguy301]

Didnt ellsworth win a state title in 1985, which was under the old format.

I also would like to believe they had a couple top 3 finishes in the seventies also.

Back in the day before mass transportation and schools traveling. Ellsworth would regularly travel to rapids, Stoughton and those schools over christmas and other times of the year to have the who is the best type of duals. I always thought was a very unquie situation because most teams of the 60`s, 70`s and esrly 80`s traveling outside a hour wasnt all that common.

Ellsworth has been a player for well over 50 years probably closing in on 60 years now.

[littleguy301]

What this really cements for me is that Kaukauna, Ellsworth, and Luxemburg-Casco are relatively new phenomena, while Stoughton, Rapids, Coleman, and Mineral Point have more longevity as programs. If I do this post again in 10 years, I'd expect to see Kaukauna near the top.

Excuse me...Ellsworth has, as a meaningful force, been around since the late 1970s and consistently been a "player" in the team title equation; they aren't "relatively new" to the equation.

From the beginning of the earth until 1992, Ellsworth had one second place finish and no first place finish.

1992 is recent?

We've been giving out team state titles since 1940.

Yes, but it was a totally different dynamic back then.  Still, they have been a strong program for more than 40 years, with plenty of good individuals.  Sorry, but that's not what I would call recent.  To be clear, I am not from Ellsworth, but I've watched them pretty closely for the past 40 years and they were already strong before I came to the area. 

Your opinion is noted.

I'm not offering an opinion. I'm simply saying that every single Ellsworth title, along with 7 of their 8 runner up finishes have come since we went to the dual format. You literally can't contest these facts. They are inarguable. I'm sorry if they hurt someone's feelings.

Please look at 1985. Not sure if my eye sight is very good but just asking for help to see if it is correct. Would 1985 be before the dual format or after

[npope]

Part of the issue her is that JW's data is measuring strength of program using only championships and runner-up finishes. Additionally, the data doesn't recognize the arrival of the multi-class system where after there were three "champs" each year. While Ellsworth has won its share of crowns and been in the running for more on many occasions, what JW's data doesn't capture is the competitiveness of Ellsworth with the very best in the state on a regular basis going back as far as the 1970s - only the old dogs among us have those memories.

So, if championships/runner-up finishes are the sole measure of the quality of a program, the data doesn't lie. That said...there was always something sweet about those boys from that dinky little burg showing up and popping the likes of Rapids and Stoughton in the chops (and take the win) just to get their attention.

[wrestlemania]

Ellsworth has been a solid program for 60 years but there's also no question the class system and then dual meet championships have been a big boost for EHS. However, if we go over the whole span of the history of high school wrestling in Wisconsin, perhaps the best medium to small school program is Coleman, because they were winning state titles when it was one class. That's impressive.

If we look at state team tournament it's the usual suspects although Stratford and Fennimore are relatively new in terms of the state team wrestling power (this is what limits its appeal unfortunately). If we look at the individual state meet from a week ago, what was striking how many champions and finalists were from schools who are not traditional wrestling powers like Eau Claire North, Nicolet, Whitefish Bay, Reedsburg, West Allis Hale, Jefferson, St. John's Northwest Military Academy, Omro, Spencer/Columbus Catholic, Cochrane-Fountain City, Markesan.

That's good for the sport of course but it also shows the clear divide between the schools that put individual champions and also are good as a team and those who aren't as strong at team but have the ability to produce a champion. Many schools in the state will continue to wrestle even they could never win a state team title because they don't have the depth to do so. Do you want them to drop or should we reward them at the very least by officially scoring the state individual meet? That's the dilemma prep wrestling in the state faces right now.

[imnofish]

Here's some interesting info...    https://www.wiaawi.org/Sports/Wrestling/History.aspx

[npope]

Ellsworth had been a solid program for 60 years but there's also no question the class system and then dual meet championships have been a big boost for EHS. However, if we go over the whole span of the history of high school wrestling in Wisconsin, perhaps the best medium to small school program is Coleman, because they were winning state titles when it was one class. That's impressive.

Personally, I have no problem recognizing Coleman in the same breath as Ellsworth. Coleman was "doing it" way back when and generated some incredible high school wrestlers; they just haven't been quite as dominant in more recent times.

[wrastle63]

Ellsworth had been a solid program for 60 years but there's also no question the class system and then dual meet championships have been a big boost for EHS. However, if we go over the whole span of the history of high school wrestling in Wisconsin, perhaps the best medium to small school program is Coleman, because they were winning state titles when it was one class. That's impressive.

Personally, I have no problem recognizing Coleman in the same breath as Ellsworth. Coleman was "doing it" way back when and generated some incredible high school wrestlers; they just haven't been quite as dominant in more recent times.

Because they are possibly the 2nd best team in the state but can't make it to state because of Stratford? That is funny.