State Division for 6 and under. Thoughts?

[benaskren]

NO WAY!!!

[DocWrestling]

A 6U state championship would be done for nothing more than stroking a parents ego and boasting.  The kids have no clue what it means.  It is not about the wrestler but simply trying to rank the kids to see who is the best.  The best wrestler is often not the best but most aggressive and has a great head throw. 

To me it would be like cockfighting but instead of people bringing their chickens they would bring their kids to battle.

I can agree that parents are the problem more than the kids are.  Yo know that what the kids weight would become a focus.  "Son, you can't weigh any more that 50lbs so no ice cream, chips, or candy for the next month.  I know the hockey players can eat what they want but it is about the dedication and trophy and not fun my little kindergartner"

You could even get me to think about it if coaches/parents were not allowed matside!

I just have a different philosophy than most.  I believe youth sports are meant to be fun and you have lots of years to prepare them for success in high school.  Youth sports to me are prep for high school sports.  It is a marathon and not a sprint and goal is to get them to the finish line above all.  A .500 wrestler through his career but competes through senior year has learned more about wrestling and character to carry him in life than a kid that one a 12U state title and never wrestled again.  The opposite philosophy seems to be the instant reward and gratification where making the now the most important.

[bkraus]

Yeah I don't like this idea.  I had a son last year at that level, and another this year at that level.  If it would have been a possibility for them to wrestle at regionals I would have opted not to.  As it is, I have a personal philosophy that they may not until 9-10 years old.  My desire and emphasis for them at this young age is having fun, and learning proper technique.  That to me is what will hook them to the sport.  Not how they do at state. I watch parents almost more than the kids at youth tournaments, and just watch most of the dad's who are about the results more than their kids enjoyment or development.  Like they can go to work and say "My kid won a championship yesterday" while they sandbagged their experience level.  Let the kids have fun!  Don't put this on them.

[MarkK]

A .500 wrestler through his career but competes through senior year has learned more about wrestling and character to carry him in life than a kid that one a 12U state title and never wrestled again.  The opposite philosophy seems to be the instant reward and gratification where making the now the most important.

I really like that.  For those of us who didn't win state or just missed going but are absolutely convinced that the experience outweighs the accomplishments, thank you.   It was a great quote.  I agree wholeheartedly.   

[Ivan Stankowski]

A 6U state championship would be done for nothing more than stroking a parents ego and boasting.  The kids have no clue what it means.  It is not about the wrestler but simply trying to rank the kids to see who is the best.  The best wrestler is often not the best but most aggressive and has a great head throw. 

To me it would be like cockfighting but instead of people bringing their chickens they would bring their kids to battle.

I can agree that parents are the problem more than the kids are.  Yo know that what the kids weight would become a focus.  "Son, you can't weigh any more that 50lbs so no ice cream, chips, or candy for the next month.  I know the hockey players can eat what they want but it is about the dedication and trophy and not fun my little kindergartner"

You could even get me to think about it if coaches/parents were not allowed matside!

I just have a different philosophy than most.  I believe youth sports are meant to be fun and you have lots of years to prepare them for success in high school.  Youth sports to me are prep for high school sports.  It is a marathon and not a sprint and goal is to get them to the finish line above all.  A .500 wrestler through his career but competes through senior year has learned more about wrestling and character to carry him in life than a kid that one a 12U state title and never wrestled again.  The opposite philosophy seems to be the instant reward and gratification where making the now the most important.

Same philosophy here, but I think we are the minority, I get into a lot of debates about this. My youngest started hockey last year and trust me I was not one of the parents favorites because I did not share the same philosophy as the rest of the parents. These were 8 year old kids and played almost every weekend, multiple games at multiple towns on same weekend. I actually had my son tell me 1/2 the way through the season he was not having fun, and we did not go to 1/2 of the games scheduled, to say the least it was very interesting conversation with coaches and other parents. 

[padre]

I don't have any kids young enough for a 6U event nor did my kids start wrestling until they were older then 6, so I don't have a dog in the hunt on this topic. I just want folks to understand if others want to do it who cares, we are one of the "only states" that are considered a wrestling state that "doesn't". When I looked up every one that my son wrestled in the semi finals of National events last year almost all of them were 6u state champs. They dint walk funny or look abused, many of them dint have dads in the corner they had coaches in the corner. They all seem to love the sport and look to be getting a lot out of it.
Why are we always the lets do less state? It doesn't seem to be working.
I do understand the down side to it mainly caused by parents, but that's a tournament function issue not a kid issue. I can easily go to youth state and watch my kid from the stands and let others coach my kids, so if the issue is DAD that doesn't change at 6 or 10. It sounds to me the concern many have is cutting weight and parent pressure, so have the coach pick the kids weight and determine if the child should try regionals.

You act as if all these kids have coaches.  Not everyone goes to Ringers, WGW, Crass, Askren,  etc.  Many of the 8U at state only have parents at state as their small hometown club coach doesn't make that trip.  Ben Askren was pretty good don't you think?  And he says No Way!!!!  Im quite sure Dennis Hall and many other state club coaches would agree.  Its not about the competition at that age...its about practicing for technique.  I would take their opinion over yours on what's good for state wrestling and many good points were brought up why it shouldn't happen yet you opt to basically say Wisconsin wrestling is not as good as it could be because there is no 6U state.  You keep saying you don't care one way or another but your posts definitely tell us you believe 6U state would help get our kids better overall.....which just simply is not true at all!!!!

[MarkK]

There is a sentiment that the kids seem to like it and the parents are ok with it so it is all right and why should we get intheir business.  I think it has to do with the best interest of the sport long term.   I don't see this as positive for the sport long term and I think this is an area that needs to be studied.  I think it has been, but I'm not aware.  Just because a parent can do something, doesn't mean it is the best for the sport.  I'm open to hearing a rationale for it, but I don't think it exists.   As far as coaches are concerned, I don't think many of them are interested in carting around the country with 6u kids unless they are being handsomely paid.   I know I wouldn't do it.  They have a life too.  I'm sure they'd rather have the kids come to the gym and work technique and test their skills at a later date.

[DocWrestling]

I think we are all in agreement that you could easily fill 16 man brackets for 6U state tournaments.  That is not the issue.  And yes probably the top kids are maybe ready for it but lets think about the majority.  Lets protect the kids from the parents.  When my kid was 5 I probably would have wanted him to try.  I was not overboard but I have learned it is a marathon and was more about me than him.

So you have a state tourney and now you can rank the top kids.  Is that the only positive?   What if the majority of kids don't like the experience.  What if the 2nd place kid never lost all year and gets beat in the finals and now does not want to wrestle because that is how his season ended.  He is not ready for that.  Why risk losing kids for the few that are ready?

Now mention that we are going to have weight classes for this age group and it is silly.

To answer your question, why do other states have a 6U division.  #1 answer- make money, #2 answer- parents wanted it.  Youth sports have gotten younger and younger because organizations realize those parents will keep paying!  Why else would someone want it?  The kids are not clamoring for it and if one is there is nothing wrong with making them wait rather than giving it all to them before they can even read the names on the brackets!

[MarkK]

I know this we had 6u youth wrestling all week long out in the playground.   We just didnt' know we could make a tournament for it and sell tickets.

[littleguy301]

I think it would be a nightmare at regionals and state like someone (Padre) said.

At state it is already a cluster at times with kids watching the screen to see when they are up just image another age group and at that young age.

If keeping up with the other states, well, that is interesting to say the least.

[Barou]

I don't have any kids young enough for a 6U event nor did my kids start wrestling until they were older then 6, so I don't have a dog in the hunt on this topic. I just want folks to understand if others want to do it who cares, we are one of the "only states" that are considered a wrestling state that "doesn't". When I looked up every one that my son wrestled in the semi finals of National events last year almost all of them were 6u state champs. They dint walk funny or look abused, many of them dint have dads in the corner they had coaches in the corner. They all seem to love the sport and look to be getting a lot out of it.
Why are we always the lets do less state? It doesn't seem to be working.
I do understand the down side to it mainly caused by parents, but that's a tournament function issue not a kid issue. I can easily go to youth state and watch my kid from the stands and let others coach my kids, so if the issue is DAD that doesn't change at 6 or 10. It sounds to me the concern many have is cutting weight and parent pressure, so have the coach pick the kids weight and determine if the child should try regionals.

Great post.  I think people are losing sight of the fact that nobody is forced to have their child compete at a younger age.  My son wasn't competing at that age as he wasn't interested.  If he loved the sport at an early age and wanted to compete at a regional at a young age and I felt he was mentally and physically ready, I'd have let him.  Plus, I wouldn't make him cut weight and I wouldn't be "over the top" Dad in the corner.  I'm all about opportunities.  Who am I to say when someone else's kid should be or shouldn't be competing at whatever age?

[aarons23]

I don't have any kids young enough for a 6U event nor did my kids start wrestling until they were older then 6, so I don't have a dog in the hunt on this topic. I just want folks to understand if others want to do it who cares, we are one of the "only states" that are considered a wrestling state that "doesn't". When I looked up every one that my son wrestled in the semi finals of National events last year almost all of them were 6u state champs. They dint walk funny or look abused, many of them dint have dads in the corner they had coaches in the corner. They all seem to love the sport and look to be getting a lot out of it.
Why are we always the lets do less state? It doesn't seem to be working.
I do understand the down side to it mainly caused by parents, but that's a tournament function issue not a kid issue. I can easily go to youth state and watch my kid from the stands and let others coach my kids, so if the issue is DAD that doesn't change at 6 or 10. It sounds to me the concern many have is cutting weight and parent pressure, so have the coach pick the kids weight and determine if the child should try regionals.

Great post.  I think people are losing sight of the fact that nobody is forced to have their child compete at a younger age.  My son wasn't competing at that age as he wasn't interested.  If he loved the sport at an early age and wanted to compete at a regional at a young age and I felt he was mentally and physically ready, I'd have let him.  Plus, I wouldn't make him cut weight and I wouldn't be "over the top" Dad in the corner.  I'm all about opportunities.  Who am I to say when someone else's kid should be or shouldn't be competing at whatever age?

+1000 I have 3 boys who have wrestled all who have done well. But none followed the same path.  All developed their love for the sport as well as technique at different stages.  If I treated them all the same Id only have 1 wrestler.  Only 1 of mine do I feel would be ready for that competition at 5 or 6.

[Handles II]

I guess I'll retort with...How would any 6 year old know about the relative meaning of, and have an interest in competing in a state event unless there is adult (maybe not the parent) intervention?

And yes, perhaps in the state there is a handful of kid who can actually understand what this is all about, does that mean that the state should oblige them? They can't wait another year or two to compete in a state competition? What would waiting do that would be negative to the child or the sport?

There was a nice piece on the radio this morning about the "over-giving" that we are doing for our children. Families that take 1 and 2 year old children to Disney rather than waiting until they are 7 or 8 and can not only appreciate and understand it, but actually remember it. I think that sums up this subject pretty well.  

[DocWrestling]

Youth sports have an effect as they get older.

In baseball I have seen this,  We start going to to tournaments at 8U and have great under armour uniforms with the kids names on the back all the way up the age groups, etc.  Parents do everything for these teams to make it a great experience.  Then when they get to high school and they get old hand me down uniforms and no name on the back and not their favorite number it seems to diminish their experience.  Is that a good thing?

Kids get trophies for wrestling tournaments no matter the place and then they get to middle school and they wrestle 3 matches at a multi-team dual and they get nothing.  Then you have JV tourneys.  We run an 8-man bracket and I cannot tell you how many kids come up to head table wondering if there are trophies and medals for 2nd-8th place.  You should see their faces when I say no.  Then look at the champion's face when he gets a small medal.  Where is his T-shirt, his gaudy custom trophy, his large medal?  Is he really going to take this little 2 1/2" medal and set it next to the huge trophy he got in 4th grade for a Saturday tourney?

Does going to state as a 6 year old make the experience at 8 or 10 less or different because then it is not a new experience?  I see it often, the most excited kids are the ones going for the first time.  They are making a memory.  Those that have been there before are going just to win, is that less fun?

No matter how you structure youth sports though it is the parents that are the problem.  Just had a 7th grade athlete tell me that her mom told her that her cross country time "sucked".  The truth is that parents are worse in the individual sports and I believe are the worst of all in wrestling because of its combative nature.  Parents take it personally and when there kid loses they don't take it as a loss but more like their kid got beat up in a fight.

[TomM]

Worked in a school district in Minnesota for a few years. Of course hockey is a big deal.

Kids 'traveling' type teams had all the stuff DocWrestling mentioned above.
Additionally
- they played something like 80 games per 'season'.
- rarely had ice time for practice, so being on the team meant pretty much all games (just fun, no drilling/conditioning etc.)

Kids would get to high school and kids and parents could not adjust or just didn't like it.
- ONLY 30 games on schedule.
- practice 3-4-5 times per week for a couple of hours.

People were upset... "Only 30 games and lots of practice. WHAT?"
Maybe we just should end athletics in high school entirely and let the parents and 'clubs' do it.
Things change all the time. Things in wrestling change all the time.
I liked things the way they were.. (Of course!) I got to wrestle and coach in what I feel/felt was the golden age of high school wrestling. I feel I was lucky.