Ref Threatened Coaches

bkraus · December 07, 2015, 02:10:18 PM

I officiated a tournament this weekend and had a dad all over me on a match that his son won by technical fall. At one point in the match, his kid was riding with a leg in and trying to turn his opponent with a wrist and half. He brought the wrist hand up on top of the head and created a full nelson. I stopped the match and awarded the penalty point accordingly and that made the dad lose it. He yelled "How can you call locked hands? It's ok son, this ref doesn't know what he is doing" amongst other things. After the match he still was on me about locked hands. I so wanted to say "you are correct sir, it wasn't locked hands. It was a full nelson" but I kept it to myself.

bulldog · December 07, 2015, 03:25:58 PM

bkraus...I appreciate your restraint, but in that situation I think you do tell them. But I guess I should ask, was it a HS or Youth Tournament? I guess in HS I still think that a ref should not even acknowledge the fans. Coaches...yes...fans...no. Don't get in a pissing match with a fan. They look dumb enough yelling on their own without a ref getting into an argument with them.

But a ref does have to keep his ears open because coaches (and fans) will see things. Saw one this weekend that a kid threw a headthrow. Right to the back and was tight as heck. The ref was looking for the pin. Never checked to see if the headlock was legal. All the spectators and coaches are yelling "Illegal headlock". As the ref is slapping the mat for the pin he looks up. He calls the pin and realizes the lock was illegal. He does call off the pin. Awards 2 takedown and 3 nearfall. And continues the match. I am not sure if the takedown was even legal but the 3 points should not have been awarded...the kid did not have the lock correct...but the ref never looked. The kid that was getting pinned came back and won the match

What I am getting at is sometimes the ref has to pay attention to what is being said...they are so focused on the match that they don't see the illegal move or the locked hands...heck...I don't know how many times I have seen a ref reminded they can call stalling and they finally do. But stalling calls is probably another thread entirely...

littleguy301 · December 07, 2015, 04:01:43 PM

I had to laugh a bit at the listening to the crowd. Not at what was said it was my vision of a WWE match.

Yes you should hear the crowd but sometimes the loudest voice could be calling for something else.

I witnessed a coach yelling to the ref while having his wrestler locking his hand but the coach yelled to the ref about something that was away from the locked hands and the ref listened and a locked hands into a pinning situation happened.

Reffing is tough and is as tough as it gets. Wrestling is a very passionate sport. I have been on the coaching side more than anything and sometimes I get alittle over the top (not often but I aint perfect) but I try to respect their calls, they are human.

As a coach I have said things I am not proud of and I usually say sorry, so I guess I cannt expect a ref to be perfect because I am not.

.

bulldog · December 08, 2015, 07:56:54 AM

I think that is a rare situation. It seems that coaches are pointing out locked hands or stalling more then trying to deflect away from an illegal move. Most the time if their wrestler has something illegal the coach is quiet and hoping not to draw attention.

YES respect refs calls...but if there is an illegal hold it isn't about respect. It is about the safety of the athlete...that is why the move is illegal. And a refs eyes cannot be everywhere. If they are looking for a pin they may not see that the elbow slipped off or the shoulder is being cranked into a dangerous position.

bkraus · December 08, 2015, 08:11:06 AM

Bulldog, it was high school.

I have no problem with technical assistance from coaches. What I mean by that is if they see a move gone from legal to illegal that I can't necessarily see due to position, ie headlock when searching for a pin. That is getting it right. But yelling about judgment calls such as stalling is the ones that are tough. Everyone's definition is different, and often the coaches see it through a bias of their kid. To me, as long as the official is consistent with that it is good. The hardest technical call we get yelled at for is the locked hands after a mat return on a standup. Most often the kids twist during the move and chances are you can be out of position. It takes a second to get around. I anticipate the movement to try and be in the right spot, but can't always get there.

Ghetto · December 08, 2015, 08:24:14 AM

Quote from: littleguy301 on December 07, 2015, 04:01:43 PM
As a coach I have said things I am not proud of and I usually say sorry, so I guess I can't expect a ref to be perfect because I am not.

+1

bulldog · December 08, 2015, 09:31:51 AM

bkraus...Yep...I agree with you 100%. Stalling calls drive me nuts and I wish folkstyle would go towards Greco/Freestyle to push action. But you are correct...I do see stalling from a biased potion when I have an athlete on the mat. And YES...I do agree it is tough to see the locked hands or the illegal moves when you are looking for the pin. The refs eyes cannot be everywhere at once.

maggie · December 08, 2015, 11:46:30 AM

""Cocked off"...

...ah, last i knew, an official had the last voice and decision...

bigG · December 08, 2015, 02:57:54 PM

Quote from: TILTS4LYFE on December 07, 2015, 09:44:03 AM
It's the fact that he cocked off during a situation where a kid could have been hurt. Take it as it is, very unprofessional.

In my area, we're running out of refs quick. Are you going to take this man's place if he retires?

We're lucky to have the ones we have; but there are some places that just can't get any refs, because their fans are out of control; and the tourney/dual supervision lets it go.

When I empty nest I plan on reffing more. I already do; but very limited. I think the no-warning toss out might be coming into fashion. I might just lean that direction. If we have to sign off on skin checks, I'm out for good.

lizard king · December 08, 2015, 03:17:47 PM

I guess I should look at the thread below but I feel that part of the shortage of refs is due to the WIAA making it somewhat difficult to be a certified ref. I know most people will not agree but, if you are not currently a ref, do this; pretend you want to ref some Jv matches just to help out when needed. You have no desire to do the state tournament, just help. Go get certified and tell me if it is worth your time? I just feel we should make it very easy and cheap to get certified then we can decide who is good enough to do higher levels.

woody53 · December 08, 2015, 08:25:24 PM

The WIAA does not make it difficult at all to become an Official. In fact it is easier than surrounding States.

Jimmy · December 08, 2015, 08:52:39 PM

Wiaa will gladly take your money to become an official. The rest of the process is not so good

SEMRAD · December 09, 2015, 01:16:58 AM

I've been around wrestling for over 40 years and been officiating for the past 7 years. I got into it to yes, to make some money but , I also wanted to give back and stay involved. I got my son doing it as well. My problem is we don't do anything during the week. I have done maybe 2 varsity duels in 7 years and that is because they were none conference. I'm good enough to do national freestyle and Greco but not good enough to do conference duels. I've never done a sectional? What do I have to do to get one? Very discouraging! Make me want to go back and coach. I feel that's way we are going to lose our refs. Same guys every year doing conference and sectionals state. Last year was the first time I saw new faces at the state tourney. We need a better way to rank refs. What that is I don't know? Tyler is gone to coaching. We lost a really good young official.

lizard king · December 09, 2015, 07:30:23 AM

Quote from: woody53 on December 08, 2015, 08:25:24 PM
The WIAA does not make it difficult at all to become an Official. In fact it is easier than surrounding States.

I still have to disagree with the WIAA making it easy. (easier than surrounding states does not mean easy.) My son was asked to ref a MS match this year, to be nice, he said he would and the AD told him to go to the web WIAA site and get certified. He is in grad school, wrestled in college, but went to the web site, had to print something off, then fill it out, then fax it or mail it, he just said forget it, he is busy. Now if he could have filled it out on line, and put in his credit card we would have a new young ref, that maybe would do it for 30 years? I know many of you are like me and think, well you big baby, but really that is what kids know now, so instead of crying for refs, the WIAA needs to change with the times.

bkraus · December 09, 2015, 07:59:46 AM

I think woody means they make it easy by really just registering and taking a test. I do other sports and have worked in other states. For lacrosse we have to complete 8 hours of classroom work and 2 hours on field for certification. Any extra training for wrestling is done if you join a local officials association, which I strongly recommend.