rule question

[WINfan]

I see in college wrestling, they finally changed the rule where if you take some one down to there butt and they are hanging on for their life around your belly, its now a takedown instead of a stalemate.  I think this is a great rule change, have the wiaa officials adopted this rule change yet?

[Spartan]

That's interesting nutritional value, are you a NCAA official?

[WINfan]

spartan....do you like the new rule change?  do you think it should be applied to high school?

[Spartan]

Win, purpose of the rule changes is to get more scoring, and thru the first
month and a half it has taken some getting use to, but I like the rule changes
I really like the changes on the mat the most it really leaves no place to hide.
I really can't wait to see how they will adjust the mat arrangements at the Midlands
To accommodate for the space needed around the circle for safety. I enjoy reffing down there
But man is that place tight

[chuckref]

The WIAA doesn't like takedowns.  We have the most restrictive rules in the nation on what a takedown is.  They will NEVER adapt this rule.

Chuck

[whatever]

I see in college wrestling, they finally changed the rule where if you take some one down to there butt and they are hanging on for their life around your belly, its now a takedown instead of a stalemate.  I think this is a great rule change, have the wiaa officials adopted this rule change yet?

This has been in the NFHS rule book (which the WIAA uses) for years.

This one that makes me incredulous when referees don't award the takedown.  As soon as I get the exact page number of the rulebook, I will post it.  It shows PICTURES, for pete's sake explaining that this is a TAKEDOWN.

[chuckref]

I see in college wrestling, they finally changed the rule where if you take some one down to there butt and they are hanging on for their life around your belly, its now a takedown instead of a stalemate.  I think this is a great rule change, have the wiaa officials adopted this rule change yet?

This has been in the NFHS rule book (which the WIAA uses) for years.

This one that makes me incredulous when referees don't award the takedown.  As soon as I get the exact page number of the rulebook, I will post it.  It shows PICTURES, for pete's sake explaining that this is a TAKEDOWN.

Sorry read the OP better and you are right based on what he is describing.  I believe you are looking for pic 23 on page 66.

[whatever]

Yep - exactly, Chuck.

In fact, pictures 23, 25, and 26 all show variations of the defender attempting to defend a double leg while sitting on his butt.  In 23, he is locked around the waist, in 25, he is locked in the crotch and in 26, he is locked under each arm.

IN ALL THE PICTURES, IT CLEARLY SAYS THIS IS A TAKEDOWN FOR THE WRESTLER WITH THE DOUBLE LEG.

[WINfan]

Thank you for clearing that up.  its too bad that some refs are too stuburn to try and learn and be the best they can be.  Ive seen this cost kids matches, even at the state tournament.  Worst is when you go to show a few (most do a great job) the rule book they dont want to read it because they are afraid they might find out they were wrong.

[chuckref]

You can ask Spartan but we are never wrong

[bkraus]

Thank you for clearing that up.  its too bad that some refs are too stuburn to try and learn and be the best they can be.  Ive seen this cost kids matches, even at the state tournament.  Worst is when you go to show a few (most do a great job) the rule book they dont want to read it because they are afraid they might find out they were wrong.

My biggest disappointment is when ego gets into play.  Here's my scenario from last week.  I questioned an direct application of a rule, not judgment.  The situation was stalling being called on the top wrestler and wrestling not being stopped.  No scoring was imminent for either wrestler.  during the bad time the other kid scored three points and we lost by one.  I asked who stalling was called on just to clarify and he said my wrestler.  When I asked why wrestling wasn't stopped he told me you only stop it for the bottom wrestler.  I asked if he was 100% sure on that (knowing the answer) and he said yes.  Not to get into an argument with him, I took the lump and discussed it with the head official and asked him to discuss it with the official in question.  Might my kid have lost anyway?  Maybe?  Might he have been able to ride him out and win the match?  Maybe.  We never will know.  And this was at the varsity level as well.  He did not want to admit he was wrong or misapplied a rule.  It's unfortunate as we all do make mistakes.

[thequad]

It took a lot of years for officials to start calling the cross body rides stalling after a few stalemates also. In fact I still think some officials let it go too long. JMO

[Spartan]

Chuck,

I will never say I am always right, or that all refs are right. But for the most part we are the only person in the gym who has no dog in the fight. I have also learned to listen carefully before I respond, and also to identify who is on the rules committee for the NCAA when having a discussion with said person at the table. It helps to compromise and move on rather than argue your point to your own detriment.

JMHO as an official

But some of the things that get questioned make me laugh.

Steve

[chuckref]

Steve,
You are absolutely correct.  I am guessing that the ref who did not stop the match is a younger official.  Hopefully he talked to some of the seasoned vets and would not make that same mistake again.  Believe me, we as officials talk all the time about coaches and calls we make.  Remember that we are human and do make mistakes, but it's not intentional.  I have learned over the years that getting the call correct is far more important than my ego, after all, it's about the wrestlers, not me.

Chuck

[Spartan]

+1