Pulaski tournament 1-30-2016

[some help]

I think what this shows is that it's important to have a full squad whenever possible.  Just looking at the numbers, where Hortonville lost by 7 points, a 14th wrestler more than likely have turned the tables.  In a tournament where they wrestle back to 8th place, a warm body in the weight would earn you points.  Averaging out what Hortonville had with 13 wrestlers comes out to about 16.8 points per wrestler, where Kaukauna averaged about 16 points per wrestler.  In no way am I taking anything away from Kaukauna or Hortonville because they are both top notch.  I am just making an observation.

In general, when looking at the averages of all teams competing, it comes out to 11 wrestlers per team.  It seems that the programs that we know to be on top have the numbers, and those that don't have the numbers are struggling.  I think it's time to revisit going back down to 12 weight classes again. 

[tiger]

what would the 12 classes be?

I think what this shows is that it's important to have a full squad whenever possible.  Just looking at the numbers, where Hortonville lost by 7 points, a 14th wrestler more than likely have turned the tables.  In a tournament where they wrestle back to 8th place, a warm body in the weight would earn you points.  Averaging out what Hortonville had with 13 wrestlers comes out to about 16.8 points per wrestler, where Kaukauna averaged about 16 points per wrestler.  In no way am I taking anything away from Kaukauna or Hortonville because they are both top notch.  I am just making an observation.

In general, when looking at the averages of all teams competing, it comes out to 11 wrestlers per team.  It seems that the programs that we know to be on top have the numbers, and those that don't have the numbers are struggling.  I think it's time to revisit going back down to 12 weight classes again. 

[some help]

Good question Tiger.  As I don't work for the WIAA, and wouldn't admit if I did, there are many factors that would go into it.  First, I would analyze throughout the last 5 years which weight classes were least/most represented during the season.  Perhaps it would look this way:

105, 114, 123, 132, 140, 149, 159, 170, 182, 195, 220, and HWT.

Again, there are many factors that would go into this.  However, you must admit that the numerous forfeits for more than 1/2 the teams out there are not in the sports best interest.  Something needs to be done   other than running co-ops.  Again, if you look for the teams that are by and large at the top of the pecking order year in and out it's the numbers game.  That starts at the youth level, works it way through the middle grades, and ends at the high school level.  Without even 14 guys in a program a full squad can't be reached.  They may not even have 12, but 12 less points to start out a dual is better than starting down 24. Even tournaments that wrestle back for 8th when there are only 5-7 guys in the bracket punishes the small squad who doesn't have someone there to just step on the scale.

[woody53]

Good question Tiger.  As I don't work for the WIAA, and wouldn't admit if I did

Now there is some hate for the WIAA. I will admit I work for them, and proud of it. Trying to make things better.

[bigG]

WOODY!!!WOODY!

Looks to me like you do a fine job, to boot.

[DarkKnight]

Good question Tiger.  As I don't work for the WIAA, and wouldn't admit if I did, there are many factors that would go into it.  First, I would analyze throughout the last 5 years which weight classes were least/most represented during the season.  Perhaps it would look this way:

105, 114, 123, 132, 140, 149, 159, 170, 182, 195, 220, and HWT.

Again, there are many factors that would go into this.  However, you must admit that the numerous forfeits for more than 1/2 the teams out there are not in the sports best interest.  Something needs to be done   other than running co-ops.  Again, if you look for the teams that are by and large at the top of the pecking order year in and out it's the numbers game.  That starts at the youth level, works it way through the middle grades, and ends at the high school level.  Without even 14 guys in a program a full squad can't be reached.  They may not even have 12, but 12 less points to start out a dual is better than starting down 24. Even tournaments that wrestle back for 8th when there are only 5-7 guys in the bracket punishes the small squad who doesn't have someone there to just step on the scale.

I don't think any weights should be taken out in the middle. Forfeits will be the name of the game forever.

[hasbeen]

I agree. Doesn't make sense to remove weight classes that are well represented. 106 and 285 typically have the fewest kids. Can't hardly remove those two though. Look at the next fewest represented and my guess would be 195/220. I would combine 182/195/220 into 189/215 bringing it back to 13 weights and call it a day.

[woody53]

No attack taken. The only way that there is meaningful change in our sport with the WIAA, is when our Coaches Association Champions a change. There are many ideas on the table right now. As a presenter to the Coaches association, you need a well thought out plan and reliable results. Communication is important. I will liken it to years ago when I was working on the Wrestle back change at State. I was struggling with some timing issues. DocWrestling opened my eyes to some changes that I was blind to for looking at it so long. So in a way, the Forum helped with the change as I was able to send it to the Coaches association and had quite a few guys get behind it.

[bigdawg]

If we start letting 7th and 8th graders wrestle varsity there will be less forfeits.

[fastnfurious]

If we start letting 7th and 8th graders wrestle varsity there will be less forfeits.

+1

[bigdawg]

If we start letting 7th and 8th graders wrestle varsity there will be less forfeits.

+1

+1

[matman]

I vote 13 weight classes, with 8th grade inclusion.
107, 114, 121, 128, 135, 142, 149, 157, 165, 175, 197, 220, HWT maybe?
It'd also be cool to see a one division individual state tourney, but the three divisions for team state
Don't eat me alive now  
Just a thought...

[ramjet]

I vote 13 weight classes, with 8th grade inclusion.
107, 114, 121, 128, 135, 142, 149, 157, 165, 175, 197, 220, HWT maybe?
It'd also be cool to see a one division individual state tourney, but the three divisions for team state
Don't eat me alive now  
Just a thought...

One division-same amount of participants as today with three divisions one large double elimination bracket ?

[matman]

Ramjet, I was thinking a large individual bracket at state, double elimination, maybe like a 32 man bracket? I really didn't think much into it, just threw the idea out there. Then for team state three divisions, the same setup as now. But I guess trouble would arise with qualifying for it since the regionals and sectionals leading up to individual state would be all one division.

[foose4]

Ramjet, I was thinking a large individual bracket at state, double elimination, maybe like a 32 man bracket? I really didn't think much into it, just threw the idea out there. Then for team state three divisions, the same setup as now. But I guess trouble would arise with qualifying for it since the regionals and sectionals leading up to individual state would be all one division.

Why do some people in wrestling think we should live by separate rules than other sports? You can talk about how you want it to be, but I just don't understand why some think we should have one individual tournament. Should they do the same for track and field, tennis, cross country, those are all individual sports so if we merge one let's merge them all.

Actually those that bring this up to me are being selfish and think the tournament series is about them, but it's not and never will be, it's about the kids (I am sure someone will come back and say the WIAA doesn't care, just wants money).  Does having 3 state champs a year really make it a bad thing? I personally think it's great.

Now also to those that will say "fine...trophies for all". Yeah get over yourselves before you post it, that's not what people mean when they say more chances are better.

Now off my soapbox. Lets talk positives about the next 5 weeks and enjoy them.for what they are.