D1 182

[maggie]

Dale is right, let the chips fall where they will...i guess i'm old school, ya have to beat them all to be the champion, so why not start fresh!...

[imnofish]

Justwrestle how would you suggest you seed the sectional champs??Records(a lot of kids thru out the brackets with inflated records because haven't wrestled in any of the tougher tournaments),rankings(that wont work either),there is no easy or right way to seed the state tournament.Sooner or later it comes down to 'you need to beat the best to be the best"!!!Let the kids decide it on the mat!Good luck to all the competitors this weekend.

They could come up with the criteria that would get it close. Is it going to be perfect, NO, but it would be a lot better than what we have now (ie. 160, 180) With your logic why would we seed any tournament?

We see this argument every year which would lead you to believe we have an issue and folks are frustrated. I have no horse in any race but put me in the camp of those in favor of a change.....

What is wrong with two outstanding wrestlers meeting on a Thursday night?

What is the real difference between a 2nd and a 3rd place?

And this from the Father of a highly ranked kid that ran into 4-timer Cibula on a Thursday night.  My kid got 3rd that year...everybody is fine.

I am also the Father of another highly ranked kid that didn't get out of Sectionals when the eventual State Champion and eventual 4th placer were the two to go to State.  Everybody is fine...

If you want drama for 3 days, you have it.  Sometimes the marquee match ups happen in the Quarterfinals, sometimes in the Semi-finals and sometimes Finals.  Truth be told, the mat is where it is decided and that is as it should be.

The ranking committee has ranked every kid that qualified for State.  Just look at the number of previously unranked kids in the top 16, and the rankings are only a week old at this time.  Right now every kid has an equal opportunity of making the podium; somehow that is not fair?

I don't think the argument is that seeding is too hard, I think that settling it on the mat is so easy; fair; rewarding.

The State Tournament is seeded.  Regionals are seeded; regionals are the State Tournament.

I agree wholeheartedly.  Good post, Dale!  Even with seeding, a stacked Regional can leave a very good kid behind, as happened to my son years ago.  That happens all the time, due to preseason tournament assignments.  What are they supposed to do, pre-seed the entire Sectional and send individual kids from each team to different Regionals?  Yeah, like that's doable...      It is what it is and kids have to do their best to wrestle through the situation they're given.  Most often, the kids handle the situation better than their parents, IMO.

[wrestlingmama123]

Justwrestle how would you suggest you seed the sectional champs??Records(a lot of kids thru out the brackets with inflated records because haven't wrestled in any of the tougher tournaments),rankings(that wont work either),there is no easy or right way to seed the state tournament.Sooner or later it comes down to 'you need to beat the best to be the best"!!!Let the kids decide it on the mat!Good luck to all the competitors this weekend.

They could come up with the criteria that would get it close. Is it going to be perfect, NO, but it would be a lot better than what we have now (ie. 160, 180) With your logic why would we seed any tournament?

We see this argument every year which would lead you to believe we have an issue and folks are frustrated. I have no horse in any race but put me in the camp of those in favor of a change.....

What is wrong with two outstanding wrestlers meeting on a Thursday night?

What is the real difference between a 2nd and a 3rd place?

And this from the Father of a highly ranked kid that ran into 4-timer Cibula on a Thursday night.  My kid got 3rd that year...everybody is fine.

I am also the Father of another highly ranked kid that didn't get out of Sectionals when the eventual State Champion and eventual 4th placer were the two to go to State.  Everybody is fine...

If you want drama for 3 days, you have it.  Sometimes the marquee match ups happen in the Quarterfinals, sometimes in the Semi-finals and sometimes Finals.  Truth be told, the mat is where it is decided and that is as it should be.

The ranking committee has ranked every kid that qualified for State.  Just look at the number of previously unranked kids in the top 16, and the rankings are only a week old at this time.  Right now every kid has an equal opportunity of making the podium; somehow that is not fair?

I don't think the argument is that seeding is too hard, I think that settling it on the mat is so easy; fair; rewarding.

The State Tournament is seeded.  Regionals are seeded; regionals are the State Tournament.

+1

[imwi]

I understand arguments both in favor and against seeding.  I haven't read anything that helps me understand what could be wrong with double elimination.  What IS the reasoning for not having double elimination at state?  

I believe it's time

[Paul Harvey]

Justwrestle how would you suggest you seed the sectional champs??Records(a lot of kids thru out the brackets with inflated records because haven't wrestled in any of the tougher tournaments),rankings(that wont work either),there is no easy or right way to seed the state tournament.Sooner or later it comes down to 'you need to beat the best to be the best"!!!Let the kids decide it on the mat!Good luck to all the competitors this weekend.

They could come up with the criteria that would get it close. Is it going to be perfect, NO, but it would be a lot better than what we have now (ie. 160, 180) With your logic why would we seed any tournament?

We see this argument every year which would lead you to believe we have an issue and folks are frustrated. I have no horse in any race but put me in the camp of those in favor of a change.....

What is wrong with two outstanding wrestlers meeting on a Thursday night?

What is the real difference between a 2nd and a 3rd place?

And this from the Father of a highly ranked kid that ran into 4-timer Cibula on a Thursday night.  My kid got 3rd that year...everybody is fine.

I am also the Father of another highly ranked kid that didn't get out of Sectionals when the eventual State Champion and eventual 4th placer were the two to go to State.  Everybody is fine...

If you want drama for 3 days, you have it.  Sometimes the marquee match ups happen in the Quarterfinals, sometimes in the Semi-finals and sometimes Finals.  Truth be told, the mat is where it is decided and that is as it should be.

The ranking committee has ranked every kid that qualified for State.  Just look at the number of previously unranked kids in the top 16, and the rankings are only a week old at this time.  Right now every kid has an equal opportunity of making the podium; somehow that is not fair?

I don't think the argument is that seeding is too hard, I think that settling it on the mat is so easy; fair; rewarding.

The State Tournament is seeded.  Regionals are seeded; regionals are the State Tournament.

How would seeding the state tournament eliminate two quality wrestlers meeting on Thursday night?

[Dale Einerson]

I am not sure I understand your question...

[Pheasant 1984]

Wile man and Wadell will be worth the admission Thursday afternoon! Will any matches be televised or live streamed Thursday thru Saturday's finals?

[Dale Einerson]

Justwrestle how would you suggest you seed the sectional champs??Records(a lot of kids thru out the brackets with inflated records because haven't wrestled in any of the tougher tournaments),rankings(that wont work either),there is no easy or right way to seed the state tournament.Sooner or later it comes down to 'you need to beat the best to be the best"!!!Let the kids decide it on the mat!Good luck to all the competitors this weekend.

They could come up with the criteria that would get it close. Is it going to be perfect, NO, but it would be a lot better than what we have now (ie. 160, 180) With your logic why would we seed any tournament?

We see this argument every year which would lead you to believe we have an issue and folks are frustrated. I have no horse in any race but put me in the camp of those in favor of a change.....

What is wrong with two outstanding wrestlers meeting on a Thursday night?

What is the real difference between a 2nd and a 3rd place?

And this from the Father of a highly ranked kid that ran into 4-timer Cibula on a Thursday night.  My kid got 3rd that year...everybody is fine.

I am also the Father of another highly ranked kid that didn't get out of Sectionals when the eventual State Champion and eventual 4th placer were the two to go to State.  Everybody is fine...

If you want drama for 3 days, you have it.  Sometimes the marquee match ups happen in the Quarterfinals, sometimes in the Semi-finals and sometimes Finals.  Truth be told, the mat is where it is decided and that is as it should be.

The ranking committee has ranked every kid that qualified for State.  Just look at the number of previously unranked kids in the top 16, and the rankings are only a week old at this time.  Right now every kid has an equal opportunity of making the podium; somehow that is not fair?

I don't think the argument is that seeding is too hard, I think that settling it on the mat is so easy; fair; rewarding.

The State Tournament is seeded.  Regionals are seeded; regionals are the State Tournament.

How would seeding the state tournament eliminate to quality wrestlers meeting on Thursday night?

I object to the insinuation that anybody at State is not a quality wrestler...

In fact, just about every early season wrestling tournament next year will provide advantages in seeding to returning state qualifiers, so, apparently just about every early season wrestling tournament director agrees with my objection.

[Paul Harvey]

I am not sure I understand your question...

You asked me what was wrong with two outstanding wrestlers meeting on Thursday night. I don't think seeding the tournament would stop this from happening. There is always going to be outstanding match ups in the quarterfinals.

[jaguarwrestler]

Justwrestle how would you suggest you seed the sectional champs??Records(a lot of kids thru out the brackets with inflated records because haven't wrestled in any of the tougher tournaments),rankings(that wont work either),there is no easy or right way to seed the state tournament.Sooner or later it comes down to 'you need to beat the best to be the best"!!!Let the kids decide it on the mat!Good luck to all the competitors this weekend.

They could come up with the criteria that would get it close. Is it going to be perfect, NO, but it would be a lot better than what we have now (ie. 160, 180) With your logic why would we seed any tournament?

We see this argument every year which would lead you to believe we have an issue and folks are frustrated. I have no horse in any race but put me in the camp of those in favor of a change.....

What is wrong with two outstanding wrestlers meeting on a Thursday night?

What is the real difference between a 2nd and a 3rd place?

And this from the Father of a highly ranked kid that ran into 4-timer Cibula on a Thursday night.  My kid got 3rd that year...everybody is fine.

I am also the Father of another highly ranked kid that didn't get out of Sectionals when the eventual State Champion and eventual 4th placer were the two to go to State.  Everybody is fine...

If you want drama for 3 days, you have it.  Sometimes the marquee match ups happen in the Quarterfinals, sometimes in the Semi-finals and sometimes Finals.  Truth be told, the mat is where it is decided and that is as it should be.

The ranking committee has ranked every kid that qualified for State.  Just look at the number of previously unranked kids in the top 16, and the rankings are only a week old at this time.  Right now every kid has an equal opportunity of making the podium; somehow that is not fair?

I don't think the argument is that seeding is too hard, I think that settling it on the mat is so easy; fair; rewarding.

The State Tournament is seeded.  Regionals are seeded; regionals are the State Tournament.

exactly, just last week you had the committee ranking kids HM that 1 week later are 3rd, or 12th that are now a 5, or 4th that are now a 1... I mean these are massive changes in just 1 week. How many of the top 4 ranked wrestlers will actually finish top 4? I would bet less than 75%

[Paul Harvey]

Justwrestle how would you suggest you seed the sectional champs??Records(a lot of kids thru out the brackets with inflated records because haven't wrestled in any of the tougher tournaments),rankings(that wont work either),there is no easy or right way to seed the state tournament.Sooner or later it comes down to 'you need to beat the best to be the best"!!!Let the kids decide it on the mat!Good luck to all the competitors this weekend.

They could come up with the criteria that would get it close. Is it going to be perfect, NO, but it would be a lot better than what we have now (ie. 160, 180) With your logic why would we seed any tournament?

We see this argument every year which would lead you to believe we have an issue and folks are frustrated. I have no horse in any race but put me in the camp of those in favor of a change.....

What is wrong with two outstanding wrestlers meeting on a Thursday night?

What is the real difference between a 2nd and a 3rd place?

And this from the Father of a highly ranked kid that ran into 4-timer Cibula on a Thursday night.  My kid got 3rd that year...everybody is fine.

I am also the Father of another highly ranked kid that didn't get out of Sectionals when the eventual State Champion and eventual 4th placer were the two to go to State.  Everybody is fine...

If you want drama for 3 days, you have it.  Sometimes the marquee match ups happen in the Quarterfinals, sometimes in the Semi-finals and sometimes Finals.  Truth be told, the mat is where it is decided and that is as it should be.

The ranking committee has ranked every kid that qualified for State.  Just look at the number of previously unranked kids in the top 16, and the rankings are only a week old at this time.  Right now every kid has an equal opportunity of making the podium; somehow that is not fair?

I don't think the argument is that seeding is too hard, I think that settling it on the mat is so easy; fair; rewarding.

The State Tournament is seeded.  Regionals are seeded; regionals are the State Tournament.

How would seeding the state tournament eliminate to quality wrestlers meeting on Thursday night?

I object to the insinuation that anybody at State is not a quality wrestler...

In fact, just about every early season wrestling tournament next year will provide advantages in seeding to returning state qualifiers, so, apparently just about every early season wrestling tournament director agrees with my objection.

Dale, it was you who brought up the "outstanding wrestler" point, not I. Also, your "advantage in seeding next year" comment is making my point. Why shouldn't those same advantages (acquired through this season) be afforded to the participants of this year's tournament? Or, why should they be given advantages next year if it is not important to seed tournaments?

[Oldtimer]

The year my boy won it he wrestled #2 ranked in the quarterfinals, #4 ranked in semis and #3 ranked in finals.  That just wasn't fair (sarcasm).

I think the boys should be able to choose which sectional they want to attend so they can avoid the best competition (sarcasm again)

Sorry, I'm kind of silly today.

Bob

[FinalWord]

I could just imagine how the wrestlers from NW Was. Would get treated at a statewide seeding meeting. Furthermore, my hometown along with several others, seeks the best competition it can find. Every year we go against top MN teams and pile up the loses to make us better at years end.

[justwrestle]

Justwrestle how would you suggest you seed the sectional champs??Records(a lot of kids thru out the brackets with inflated records because haven't wrestled in any of the tougher tournaments),rankings(that wont work either),there is no easy or right way to seed the state tournament.Sooner or later it comes down to 'you need to beat the best to be the best"!!!Let the kids decide it on the mat!Good luck to all the competitors this weekend.

Other states have been doing it for years.  It is based on a point system including returning state champion, state place winner, undefeated record and so on.  In the event of a tie they have tie breaking criteria.  Also, other states...see Iowa have a 16 man bracket double elimination tournament.

[Jimmy]

Why not use a freestyle bracket with the points system. I have never heard complaints about that