1.5%/Week?!?!

[MNbadger]

Well the deaths were really because of the use of creatine in addition to severe dehydration.
What really helped push it was coaches who believed they were "getting beaten on the scale". 
We have more than enough rules.  As I said, most of the rules (like this requiring more and more data entry) make the sport MORE about weight cutting than less.

[bulldog]

Well then...let's ban creatine go back to rubber suits and Dang the skin fold tests and hydration issues.   

[Coach V]

Might as well have hydration tests before every match!!! Heck ,every athletic event?? Maybe even before a math test??? 

[Handles II]

See? Those last two posts were why people can't get along in this country. If something is working, either we have to make it more difficult or flippantly respond to throw away all aspects of what was working.

The Clash is one of the biggest dual tournaments in the nation. It's held in MN, where there is no urine test, no 1/2 lb or 1.5% per day or week rule. There hasn't been any advantage for MN teams over teams that do it with 15 additional rules, and there hasn't been anything detrimental in MN teams performance for them to say "hey, we really should be adding 15 more steps to this process".

So the reality is that both work, just one is much more efficient for the coaches, wrestlers, and managers. Are there imperfections? Yes. Is that ok? Yes. Does it all seem to work out in the end? Yes.

I do believe MN's requirement that all wrestlers must make weight at 1/2 or more of all weigh-ins from Jan 15th on or they can't wrestle at that weight at Sections is a rule that is very self-governing. The kids find out if they can do it and be effective, or not.  It's pretty simple and works quite well.

[bulldog]

"The Clash is one of the biggest dual tournaments in the nation. It's held in MN, where there is no urine test, no 1/2 lb or 1.5% per day or week rule."

Handles II are you saying that MN doesn't have a hydration test or the Clash doesn't have a hydration test? Your statement is unclear. If you are saying the Clash doesn't...well of course it doesn't. Neither does the Cheesehead or any tournament that I know of.

If you are saying MN doesn't...I think it does...or is the Minnesota State High School League not the equivalent of the WIAA?

[Handles II]

MN does not have a hydration test is what I said.  "It's held in MN, where there is no urine test..."

The MSHSL is not the equivalent to the WIAA when it comes to wrestling. It's superior. 

[Coach V]

I see, Handles cant HANDLE any sarcasm . I want to coach and I will do whatever they ask of me, but I think that is why I can give some perspective on it. Old or young all the opinions and different ideas are good. They make us all think of ways to make wrestling better and even a little fun once in a while. 

[bulldog]

MN does not have a hydration test is what I said.  "It's held in MN, where there is no urine test..."

The MSHSL is not the equivalent to the WIAA when it comes to wrestling. It's superior. 

So on the MSHSL website is this statement

"Any wrestler who is determined to be below 7% body fat at the time of certification will be required to verify proper hydration.  The wrestler will submit a urine sample to the skin fold technician who is certifying the wrestler's weight.  The technician will determine the hydration of the wrestler via refractometer or dip stick analysis.  The specific gravity of the urine must be less than 1.025.:

That isn't a hydration test?

[MNbadger]

Bulldog, If you read it carefully it states the hydration test is done only if the wrestler is under 7% at the time of the fat test.
No one else does hydration in MN.
You are fat tested at the beginning of the season.
You must make at least 1/2 of your weigh-ins after Jan. 15th at the weight you want to wrestle post season (lowest being your certified 7% weight).
The biggest pain now is the data entry for this.  If it gets entered wrong it is too costly to the wrestlers.

[bulldog]

MNbadger...I did read it carefully. I understand that the hydration test is only if the wrestler is under 7%. Handles statement was "It's held in MN, where there is no urine test..." That is not accurate. I know it is splitting hairs but there is a hydration test.

For clarification you say "no one else does hydration in MN"...do you mean that no wrestlers go under 7%? Or am I misunderstanding your statement?

Maybe I am mixing things up. So this means if my kid cuts down from 145 to 113 at skinfold (he doesn't) then he skinfolds at 113 and I don't have to sign off on the 5% allowance as a parent so he would be okay to drop to 113 and would not have to take the hydration test.

Is that the way it works in MN?

If so then yeah...I could get behind that.   

Also, you say they must make 1/2 their weigh-ins at the weight they want to wrestle after Jan 15th. Is that with the 2 lb allowance? Yeah...if that is the case I could go with that too.

Looking at it from a different angle I think the hydration test is "supposed to" discourage dropping too much weight by dehydrating yourself. I know that was the fastest way to cut weight when I competed. Stop drinking water put on a rubber suit and sit in a sauna and seat off the weight. Bad idea. And I know it is still being done...and by kids that were standing on the podium at State. So how does MN discourage dehydration techniques?

[Handles II]

This is a new rule, so yes, splitting hairs. If anyone is 7% or above at body fat testing, no hydration test.

1/2 of weigh ins means if a wrestler is certified for 126 and would like to wrestle at that weight for Sections, if they weigh in 6 times after January 15, 3 times or more they must make the 126 weight class (including growth allowance, but must be certified for scratch weight).

[MNbadger]

Yes, I think you are splitting hairs.  That is fine.  I did not mean to come off as curt.
It is against the rules to use "plastics".  I don't doubt some still do.  It is not terribly different from layer upon layer of sweat shirts.
Yes, the weigh-ins are with the allowance as that IS the weight (ie; 126 + 2lb allowance IS 126 weight class).

MNbadger...I did read it carefully. I understand that the hydration test is only if the wrestler is under 7%. Handles statement was "It's held in MN, where there is no urine test..." That is not accurate. I know it is splitting hairs but there is a hydration test.

For clarification you say "no one else does hydration in MN"...do you mean that no wrestlers go under 7%? Or am I misunderstanding your statement?

Maybe I am mixing things up. So this means if my kid cuts down from 145 to 113 at skinfold (he doesn't) then he skinfolds at 113 and I don't have to sign off on the 5% allowance as a parent so he would be okay to drop to 113 and would not have to take the hydration test.

Is that the way it works in MN?

If so then yeah...I could get behind that.   

Also, you say they must make 1/2 their weigh-ins at the weight they want to wrestle after Jan 15th. Is that with the 2 lb allowance? Yeah...if that is the case I could go with that too.

Looking at it from a different angle I think the hydration test is "supposed to" discourage dropping too much weight by dehydrating yourself. I know that was the fastest way to cut weight when I competed. Stop drinking water put on a rubber suit and sit in a sauna and seat off the weight. Bad idea. And I know it is still being done...and by kids that were standing on the podium at State. So how does MN discourage dehydration techniques?

[bulldog]

New rule...as in this year? If so then it will be interesting to see how many actually do pass without the hydration test. Or should I say how many opt to drop below the 7%. But it is possibly a moot point...if you had to weigh in at scratch weight once to certify at your lowest weight then it is almost like the old Wisconsin rules before skinfold where you had to make scratch weight before Christmas.

You almost wonder if this is the first step for MN to adapt a hydration test like Wisconsin has...just conjecture on my part

I am surprised because (the way it looks to me) it doesn't address the dehydration issue. Heck...I know a bunch of wrestlers that would have gone down another weight class if they didn't have to pee in a cup to pass the hydration test. I think the hydration test has somewhat curbed the big weight cuts I recall before skinfold.

By no means am I a proponent of big weight cuts...I agree it is a negative part of the sport but it is still a part of the sport

[Jimmy]

Didn't have to make scratch before Christmas. You did have to make scratch once to get the growth allowance tho.could be in January or February.

[MNbadger]

You don't have to make the scratch weight.  You just have to have made the skin fold test at the beginning and then make 1/2 your weigh ins after January 15th.