Building a great wrestling program

[Handles II]

 Gotta have that young (inexperienced) coach! History has shown that people over 30 suck at coaching and their programs fail. And "popular" teacher always fill a roster? Huh, looks like the majority of coaches in our state are unpopular teachers and have been for years. Plus none of the coaches that have had or continue to have solid programs are old or disciplinarians.
Talk about perceptions.    bad and untruthful ones at that. Sheesh.

And hopefully for the last time...its PRIVATE club, not PRIVET.

[DocWrestling]

For 90% of wrestlers in Wisconsin, wrestling is absolutely a "seasonal" sport.   We need those "seasonal" kids to make the sport successful.

The great majority of HS athletes are "seasonal" athletes.  They do it for the fun and to be a part of a team.  Success is low on their priorities and concerns.  That is all the commitment they are willing to give or they also enjoy doing other sports

We do not have to worry about the year round wrestlers, those studs will always be there.  Wrestling needs more "seasonal" athletes.

There are probably more first year wrestlers than year round wrestlers on each high school team.

Wrestling can be fun and does not need to be a grueling year round sport for everyone.  Certainly not everyone can handle that.  It is possible to balance both types of athletes with different goals.

[Handles II]

+1

[littleguy301]

I think the days of that 8-4 teacher are long gone. Most teachers have a lot more on their plates than just a few years ago. The new assessments, RTI, PLCs, etc. have crunched time for educators.

I don't know how in the heck I'd have time to coach and get papers graded in a timely manner. It was really tough just a few years ago. Now, there's more paperwork, phone calls, etc., and less benefits.

Still, a job I very much love and don't regret doing. I work with the best kids on earth, though. 

now 7-3 as long as you get your minutes your free to go in my district. It is all about the minutes now.

Yes the work, aaa what the heck enjoy life!

[Jimmy]

How well today are coaches and parents doing on developing wrestlers that truly love and are passionate about the sport? Imo way to much focus on winning. Especially at the younger age. Develope that love of wrestling and you will have a greater pool of future coaching candidates .

[Handles II]

Energetic coaches, yes, but you specifically said young. And I hate to break it to you, but many if not most of our best programs, in any sport, have a disciplinarian as a coach. And what disciplinarian means to one person may be different for another.  You see, it's very possible to have balance rather than being just one or the other. Unfortunately you are stereotyping older coaches as unpopular and bad, and young coaches as popular and good. Some awesome programs have come from coaches that aren't well liked but are very much respected, and some crap programs occur with energetic popular young guys. I've read you saying these types of things before. Looking at Team State, what do you think the average age of the head coaches are? Those guys aren't 26 years old. Are there any that are under 35?  My guess is that each one of them can look back at when they were younger and perhaps more energetic and say "Wow, I made some big mistakes. I'm a better coach now than I was then."  I certainly look for advice from coaches much older or more experienced than I am. I've had some great talks with HOF coaches. Guess what? They didn't get in there by being young coaches, or by quitting coaching when they were young. They got there from doing a good job for a long time, with many ups and downs along the way.
So as a way to, as the thread is named, "Building a great wrestling program", please stop stereotyping coaches by age or popularity as two extremely important elements for success. It just isn't true. What is of much more importance is what Doc has been saying, the lower 90% needs to be more in focus. A good program is built not with a couple elite kids.

As for the spelling, I know that this forum has spell check. So learning disability or not, you write the word privet dozens and dozens of times in many different threads. Use the tools that are designed to assist and facilitate learning rather than ignoring it over and over. Would guess that is what you as a large business owner would advise your employees to do, rather than making the same mistakes over and over, right?

[MNbadger]

Big G; "By stats, we should see an upswing in education majors in WI because our economy lags. Maybe that's why I got my first intended Ed. major senior in years. Maybe teaching is on the decline regardless of economy. Maybe it's just easier to get that two cert. or associates and get paid the same as the Ed. major making the same amount of money with 4+ years of education. I'd only be speculating."

Yes, but if the options for pay are better in neighboring states these candidates are likely to leave WI.

[bigG]

You're stretching.... JK

I know many who have gone MN.

I still dig my kids, though. Y'know?

More likely to leave if close to the border. True.

I know some old supers (Milwaukee area)who went ILL in their retirement and made bank.

I got a good district, IMO.

[MNbadger]

I like my kids too but too many things have changed.   As much as I have loved my job for most of my career, I'd never make the same choice again.  It comes down to the hard reality of finances.
More to the point of the thread... Either something has to happen to make teaching more appealing or sports will have to change, particularly wrestling.  Between fewer and fewer people choosing education as a career and the demands of the job getting to be more and more, coaches will be even harder to come by.

[Handles II]

Handles,
First of all I consider 35 young!!!
Second in this neck of the woods most of the top coaches are 28-42 in all sports. The Kaukauna coach is a bit older then that but he is still young and energetic in his approach.
I am in agreement with  Doc, my point is that the elite kids are why the other kids are not coming out.

No I would never call out one of my team members out in front of other's, my ego isn't in need of that type stroking.

Oh, so now 35 is a 'young' coach? Teams are supposed to go out and find 35 year olds to coach them? Ever consider that most 35 year olds aren't out looking for teaching jobs? Jeff at Kaukauna is at or close to 50. Smith at Sauk is 47ish. Both have great things going but are far from young, and my guess is that they are improving their coaching as they have aged. This isn't to discourage any young coaches, but to state as you have done on several occasions that 'young' coaches are who needs to be hired is simply false, wrong, and discriminatory.

[bigG]

I think many teams show those signs of greatness; but, like my team, not as consistently as the very best programs seem to come out on fire, year after year. Constantly having a core of coaches seems to be the factor. The best have the "lifer" coach, IMHO.

Look at the very best: Pieper, Lehrke, Lewie, Berceau, etc. All had/have the long-haul coaches. Then, before hanging it up, the great coaches find great replacements.

[bigG]

Big G,
You are talking about hall of fame coaches that were once all young energetic coaches, they built long lasting reputations that drew kids in for decades. I am not suggesting finding coaches of that caliber because they are impossible to duplicate.
Like in football a guy has a 5-8 year run as a coach and if he can't build numbers he either steps down or aside. We need a huge WWF effort to find more referees and coaches, it should be the number 1 initiative of that group, turn over coaching cadet and juniors to Ben and Dennis. Executives should be spending a majority of there time recruiting and developing.
If we make that important change we might get WI competing again, in numbers and on the mat.

I agree as far as the Badgers are concerned. I'm not saying you can just find a legend; but look at the consistently great teams, regardless of division. MP and Coleman are no exceptions. I never said it is something one can replicate easily. It does seem to be the thing that puts teams into that category.

I love the idea of Ben coaching. Would that be a pay cut for him? Even if we wanted like the dickens to have been coach Bucky; would he find it an attractive position?

[Handles II]

Points,
I like your idea here but I'm confused about how it would work. If we don't have wrestlers going into coaching because they either don't want to, or don't have the time, and we don't have wrestlers going into officiating (pretty tough to find more than a handful in the state under 45 y.o.) for the same reasons, what would a coaching and officiating program do to keep the sport alive and strong? How would that work? Where, when, and how often would it meet?

Our biggest downfall in this (and other) states is how our youth wrestling is set up. We lose masses of kids each year and nothing is changed. Then we harp on the high school coaches for not putting enough effort into recruiting. Fix the youth wrestling-specific issues that cause kids to quit and there will be more kids and more experienced kids in the H.S. programs.  THIS is what we need the WWF to get involved in.

[MarkK]

For 90% of wrestlers in Wisconsin, wrestling is absolutely a "seasonal" sport.   We need those "seasonal" kids to make the sport successful.

The great majority of HS athletes are "seasonal" athletes.  They do it for the fun and to be a part of a team.  Success is low on their priorities and concerns.  That is all the commitment they are willing to give or they also enjoy doing other sports

We do not have to worry about the year round wrestlers, those studs will always be there.  Wrestling needs more "seasonal" athletes.

There are probably more first year wrestlers than year round wrestlers on each high school team.

Wrestling can be fun and does not need to be a grueling year round sport for everyone.  Certainly not everyone can handle that.  It is possible to balance both types of athletes with different goals.

I agree Doc.   It has to be fun and if there are going to be full teams throughout the state it will be seasonal athletes who make it happen. 

[MarkK]

Mark, If fewer and fewer people are going into education and wrestlers are a small portion of them, why would you expect different results?
If any other industry is not getting workers, usually the assumption is that they are not being paid enough.  This is not a stretch.  
You likely have opportunities to talk with college coaches too.  Ask them how many education majors they have right now and how many they have had for the last 10-15 years. I know how many there were in my competition era compared to more recent years.

"Your example of having none to one to two was broken in your own example.  4 students.  Not sure if it is statistically significant but even I know it is more than none or one."

I don't know what you are saying here... please explain.  I thought I was very clear.  

Oil: "76% of education majors are female, is that Walkers fault too?"

The percentage of females is irrelevant, in fact, there are more male education majors now that in years past.  Besides, it doesn't matter, I am counting males as they are the ones wrestling in high school and college as the majority.  We are drawing from wrestlers and a vast minority are choosing education as a career.  

Where did I mention Walker?

And yes, the economy is doing well and has been for some time (one of the best stretches since Clinton).  This has the effect of people choosing more lucrative careers than teaching.

By broken I mean this.   When 10% of the graduates of a wrestling program are going into teaching that is a significant number.  When 4 students out of 40 go into teaching that is significant.   Really, there are how many majors on a campus?   Ten percent of a group going into the same major has to be pretty significant.  Then if it is true 70+ percent of all education majors are female and you have a group of males who have 10%  that is significant.  There are around 200 majors at UW-Madison.  30 of them are department of Education Majors.  so you have about 170 non education related majors plus lots of variations.   It is just natural that people have different interests and money often doesn't have a lot to do with it.  Many of the listed majors are making less than teachers.   Many of them make more.   Again I will say that 10% of a group of 40 men choosing teaching is significant when you consider most teachers are women.   Is it less than years past, I don't know.   But there are factors beyond pay that are a work as well.  I can't tell you how many ex wrestlers who are teachers who are not coaching wrestling.  I can point to them right now.  All great guys.  They are trying to raise a family and wrestling every weekend in a tournament is killing them.   I'm going to say it but when I wrestled in the 80's we had less than 30 matches.   We had few weekend tournaments.   It was a lot easier on the coaches and families involved.   The specialization of the sport toward a commitment level of time has not helped secure more refs, coaches, athletes.   Think about it.   We have less refs, coaches and athletes.  Do you think that maybe the schedule is driving people away?  It is driving away the "seasonal" athletes as Doc has called them.  In the past year I've seen teachers who WERE coaches step down to be with their growing families.  They have been replaced by non-teachers.   When every weekend there is a tournament, refs, coaches, athletes and fans have more going on than wrestling.  I know it pains us to think that but it is true.   Something that was to be extracurricular and fun has become all-consuming.   I think there are too many matches.   I don't think full programs are going to be built with so many matches. 

I also agree with Handles, youth wrestling as great as it could be has prematurely created the pecking order and kids realize their potential and drop out.   We all know prematurely.