no more school boy duals!

[aarons23]

First it was the  cadet and junior duals that the wwf and the coaching decided not to do and now its the school boy duals! The reason given for the Junior/ cadet duals was to get more wrestlers at Fargo....they already had to tell wrestlers they could only wrestle one style and not go up weight classes.  With this being the case...I am not sure how many more numbers the state can support.  Now we were told last night that they are not going to the schoolboy duals because they want to support the kids national tournament.  The Duals are two weeks prior to the national tourney.....but we have the perfect situation here in Wisconsin for the next two years.  Northern Plaines are in Rockford, Il and the National tournament is in Wisconsin Dells.  No real need to prohibit the school boys from the duals.  IMO these duals are one of the most exciting events for wrestlers.  The ones I have talked to that are now out of school cherish those events and one of if not the most memorable times in wrestling. 

What do others think? 

[ksbird]

At first blush, I was disappointed as this was by far my best experience with my boys. But given the great job the Midwest has done in picking up Kids Northern Plaines in Rockford again as well as the National Tournament in the Dells and having the World Trials in Madison, all around the same time, I am reconsidering and thinking they made the right decision. Something I have been trying to get done for several years is the Northern Plaines Duals.  it sounds like they are considering trying to get this at the World Trials which would be AWESOME for schoolboys, Cadets and Juniors. At the end of the day, Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois, and Minnesota are typically in the hunt for National Dual titles and this would be a great use of our money. Although it may appear these decisions are made in a vacuum I think they have some great minds helping with the decision. If anyone is having heart burn about this,  flood the annual meeting in the Dells October 5th. This is a good meeting of the state, fun for the family, shopping for the ladies that don't want to attend the meeting and a place where your voice can be heard. See you there.

[nutman]

 When I first read this post about the possibility of no more school boy duals, I was bothered because I had remembered how extremely privileged my son was to be a part of such a group.    Then I thought about the experience of Fargo for the first time this year.  I noticed how proud Illinois felt about winning the team title.  Then I thought about the number of athletes they had competing.  They almost maxed out their spots.  In Wisconsin we had good numbers, but Illinois year in and year out has more numbers competing.  Illinois as a state has a higher population in general.  When you have almost 60 athletes competing for a team and another has 30, who is going to win the title?    

We need more Wisconsin wrestlers competing at Fargo.  We need to get more athletes into formats that mirror Fargo at a younger age...Northern Plains, etc.  The more athletes we get to Northern Plains and qualifying tournaments, the more spots we earn at Fargo.   The competition level of school boy duals was awesome, but it also strengthened the bond of the sport for those young athletes to become friends with other like-minded athletes.  This could only happen if the athletes made the school boy team.  In many cases, it served as motivation to continue wrestling.  If WWF goes to this format it will be more inclusive.  If Wisconsin goes to a new format and gets more kids involved earlier, we might have better numbers later for Fargo.   Let's face it, we cannot keep  doing things the same way and expect different results.    Don't get me wrong it was pretty cool to have a kid who was the only wrestler from his community to make the team; however, it was a whole lot cooler to have 4 kids from our school competing at Fargo. All of the athletes from our school did not become All-Americans at Fargo, but as I see them interact with their teammates who did not compete at Fargo there is a whole different level of understanding and appreciation for our sport.    I'm hoping next year we have 6-8.   I would love nothing more with this new emphasis to have 10-12 kids at Northern Plains.  

I'm assuming our goal if we try something different is to increase participation in freestyle and greco beyond the WWF State Tournament.  I'm assuming it will be to increase our chances to win a team national title.  If those are the criteria we are trying to accomplish, then  this will be a great experiment.  Whatever the criteria is, we should get behind it and commit to getting Wisconsin on top.  If we are trying something different and we continue not to reach the defined level of success, we can always go back to the way it was.

[aarons23]

We have won national titles as a dual team, placed in the top five consistently as a dual team.....not the same results at Fargo. Our population alone makes it hard to compete with Illinios.  Doesn't mean we can not not get better....but I don't think it should be at the expense of the dual teams.

Like I said....how many more do you think we can support at Fargo?  We already restrict them to one style because there are not enough spots, restrict them from moving up a weight from Greco to freestyle....which by the way basically forces them to choose one style which hurts Greco because most view freestyle as the avenue to get to college.

If money is the issue here.....look for sponsors.  I for one would help sponsor the dual teams....the experience for those wrestler is that important.

[skibum93]

Being a huge supporter of Ben Askren! I would really like him to chime in here? 

[benaskren]

I have to say I don't feel passionately either way. 

I understand why the WWF went this route.  Hoping better participation in Northern Plains and USAW nationals.  With all 3 tournaments(Duals, NP, and Nationals) all being in the same month a few hardcore kids will do all events but the majority will pick.

Being a member of the cadet and junior duals teams as an athlete I know how much fun those trips were despite the 14 hour bus trip.  Now being a coach and putting together travel trips that include coach buses I see the astronomical costs of trips such as this. 

Final answer I would say I don't feel strongly either way and I am extremely happy that our kids will have easy trips to compete in both the NP and the USAW nationals.

[knowgangs]

That's a shame.  I'm sure IL, IA, MN, IN and other surrounding states will still be sending teams to schoolboy duals.  We have Northern Plains and Nationals right in our own backyard and we think it's too much for our state?  What better way to get our schoolboy aged kids prepared and interested in nationals then giving them the opportunity to participate in schoolboy duals...

[maggie]

is it deteriorating any part our sport in any manor ?

[knowgangs]

is it deteriorating any part our sport in any manor ?

I would say "deteriorating" might be a bit dramatic description, but we are definitely bypassing a great opportunity.  The Schoolboy Duals brings together the best Freestyle / Greco middle school wrestlers in the nation for several days of matches.

For several years I have taken a group of Wisconsin youth wrestlers to Northern Plaines and ASIC Nationals in Utah.  I've also taken groups of wrestler to other tournaments in at least a dozen states.  Of those trips, the trip I hear the boys speak most fondly of is participating in Schoolboy duals.  The reason being is this is one of the few opportunities these youth participate in this sport as a team.  What a great experience to prepare our middle schoolers for high school!  It's one of the few times in their youth wrestling experiences that they are cheering on teammates from clubs they normally consider rivals.  The friendships that they establish at this event continues into high school and in my opinion only strengthens our sport.  I know of one wrestler who started doing Freestyle / Greco specifically hoping he could make the Schoolboy Team.  I can't count how many times I've heard our youth wrestlers telling other wrestlers about how fun Schoolboy Duals were.

In addition, they are competing and associating with the very best youth wrestlers in the nation.  Yes, I see this at other youth national events, but nothing to the degree of schoolboy duals.  I see more team comradery at this event than any other.

On an individual level, they get the opportunity to get 8 - 10 freestyle matches and 8 - 10 Greco matches against the very best in the nation.  There is no national tournament where you get that many matches against the nation's best. 

I would hope that part of the goal of the WWF is creating experiences and memories for our youth so they will want to continue to support and love the sport into adulthood.  I would suspect that WWF has underestimated how much our youth have loved this event and the maturing and personal growth that resulted as well.  My perception of my son and his friend's experience could be 100% wrong, but I would encourage any coach or parent to ask your kids their thoughts on the positives of schoolboy duals and how they felt about their experience.

Lastly, as we compare ourselves to surrounding states--as far as youth wrestling, Wisconsin has been behind a bit in participating in out of state youth team duals.  All of our surrounding states frequently participate in national youth duals throughout the country.  As far as I know, on a national level, the only national youth dual meets we go to were because of Matt Ochs (who a couple years ago started organizing teams for some national youth events).  This is done through his own efforts and fundraising.  Schoolboy duals was the one national youth dual event WWF supported.  As I said before, it is a shame to give this up.

[Irish]

I would like to know if this is 1 persons vision?  Kluever?  Or is this the entire WWF?  Really seems like we are throwing all of our eggs into one basket.

[boowrestle]

With all the people questioning and asking questions about this decision,some of you should try and attend the annual wwf meeting in the Dells in Oct.You can ask all the questions and get answers and explainations from the people that are making the decisions.

[Ofhsfan]

We were privileged to be part of the schoolboy and cadet duals. It was the best experience in wrestling for the entire family. Great memories! We were very disappointed they discontinued junior duals.
Still talk about it with coaches from different states. Remember the cowbell? Also MN stomping on WI singlet and then we whipped their butts.

[Oldtimer]

Dieringer vs Ness.  I wonder how many times these two studs met in the duals over the years.  Look at em now.

[Kevin Black]

Dieringer and Ness wrestled in 2010 at Junior Duals (Freestyle - 145 lbs).  Ness won 1-0, 2-1.  No other meetings at the duals.

They wrestled each a lot in individual tournaments.

[billymurphy]

I personally thing/thought they are the very most exciting wrestling event for a fan to watch.
Keep in Mind Dieringer was dinged up in that 2010 match against Ness otherwise Ness goes down.
It is a huge mistake in my opinion  to skip it and even though it is expensive, it is worth the money to do it.