NCAA's and Jordan

[Micah]

I think Jordan has to win B10s to get seeded ahead of Massa.  I don't think just beating Massa and losing to Imar will get him the 2 seed.  Either way 2/3 seed is opposite Imar.  Just can't take 4th at B10s and end up the 4 seed at nationals.

I'd imagine the goal of Isaac Jordan is to win the NCAA tournament. What round he defeats Isaiah Martinez, Logan Massa, Michigan, Vincenzo Joseph, Chad Walsh, Anthony Valencia, Daniel Lewis or Chandler Rogers does not matter.

You beat each one you meet, no matter the round, or you finish below 1st. You train to win, not for a certain round.
(I realize I am preaching to the choir here Micah... just felt a need to expound...)

While true, I would prefer to take the path of least resistance to reach my goal.

[npope]

I am sure that IJo has only one goal - be the NCAA champ. Anything other than that, e.g., second, third, fifth, etc. will be a significant disappointment for him and the coaching staff. I agree that anyone of that group (other than IMar) has the potential to knock off any other guy - so the importance of seeding at the NCAA (and possibly at the B10, as well) is of relatively little importance. A couple of the group might even have a chance at IMar, on the right day. So, while the B10 will be important for its own sake, it is not the NCAA meet - it's just a warm up.

While catching IMar in the finals would be the icing on the cake, I am sure that IJo isn't concerned about catching him in the semis or the finals (or even earlier) because being number one is the only thing that counts for IJo at this point - a two time runner-up or three-time AA simply isn't gonna make those folks happy.

[Huckfinn]

I think Jordan has to win B10s to get seeded ahead of Massa.  I don't think just beating Massa and losing to Imar will get him the 2 seed.  Either way 2/3 seed is opposite Imar.  Just can't take 4th at B10s and end up the 4 seed at nationals.

I'd imagine the goal of Isaac Jordan is to win the NCAA tournament. What round he defeats Isaiah Martinez, Logan Massa, Michigan, Vincenzo Joseph, Chad Walsh, Anthony Valencia, Daniel Lewis or Chandler Rogers does not matter.

You beat each one you meet, no matter the round, or you finish below 1st. You train to win, not for a certain round.
(I realize I am preaching to the choir here Micah... just felt a need to expound...)

I agree with your philosophy, but most of the wrestling world does not.  It seems like most people agonize over seeding that gets Jordan and Medbery into the finals.  It's certainly true that being a finalist is a great honor.  I tried to explain in another thread that finishing third always involves more winning and often requires more difficulty than 2nd place; eggs and tomatoes thrown my way.   That "finalist" honor really grabs people.

[Barou]

I am sure that IJo has only one goal - be the NCAA champ. Anything other than that, e.g., second, third, fifth, etc. will be a significant disappointment for him and the coaching staff. I agree that anyone of that group (other than IMar) has the potential to knock off any other guy - so the importance of seeding at the NCAA (and possibly at the B10, as well) is of relatively little importance. A couple of the group might even have a chance at IMar, on the right day. So, while the B10 will be important for its own sake, it is not the NCAA meet - it's just a warm up.

While catching IMar in the finals would be the icing on the cake, I am sure that IJo isn't concerned about catching him in the semis or the finals (or even earlier) because being number one is the only thing that counts for IJo at this point - a two time runner-up or three-time AA simply isn't gonna make those folks happy.

Seeds are "of relative importance".  Generally speaking the better seed earns more favorable matchups leading to less difficult matches as one advances.  Yes, there are examples where this isn't always the case.  IJo's goal is to win a NT as it should be.  I'm sure he would rather have the easiest path possible before meeting the best of the best. 

[Huckfinn]

A couple of the group might even have a chance at IMar, on the right day.  

Even Taylor Walsh's little brudder Chad nearly beat him.    

165  is a class where Imar is heavy favorite, 7 guys have a prayer to beat him, but it better be a good prayer.

At 184, Dean is heavy favorite,   I think Bo and Myles are within praying distance.

At HW, only Medbery can challenge the man, and it looks like longshot.

[Huckfinn]

I think Jordan has to win B10s to get seeded ahead of Massa.  I don't think just beating Massa and losing to Imar will get him the 2 seed.  Either way 2/3 seed is opposite Imar.  Just can't take 4th at B10s and end up the 4 seed at nationals.

I'd imagine the goal of Isaac Jordan is to win the NCAA tournament. What round he defeats Isaiah Martinez, Logan Massa, Michigan, Vincenzo Joseph, Chad Walsh, Anthony Valencia, Daniel Lewis or Chandler Rogers does not matter.

You beat each one you meet, no matter the round, or you finish below 1st. You train to win, not for a certain round.
(I realize I am preaching to the choir here Micah... just felt a need to expound...)

While true, I would prefer to take the path of least resistance to reach my goal.

Ya, but you are a fan, your goal is to be maximally entertained.  Watching lots of competitive bouts is more to the better.   If you're the wrestler, the best thing that can happen is to get unseeded guys and injury forfeits.

Or as Vince Lombardi said, "Winning isn't everything, watching great wrestling is what counts."

[npope]

Seeds are "of relative importance".  Generally speaking the better seed earns more favorable matchups leading to less difficult matches as one advances.  Yes, there are examples where this isn't always the case.  IJo's goal is to win a NT as it should be.  I'm sure he would rather have the easiest path possible before meeting the best of the best.  

While there may be easier paths to the finals, there is no easier path to the championship - you gotta wrestle them all (the king included) and I would suggest the order doesn't matter - assuming that a championship is the sole goal - that second is the same as fifth.

[sudden_victory]

Isaac will win every match the rest of this season. He's got a can of whoop inappropriate term2  he's been saving.

[Harris]

It's funny how everyone thinks IMar and Snyder are sure things.  The thing I love about the sport of wrestling is that on any given day, the wheels can fall off the bus and all heck can break loose. 

Let the games begin 

[Micah]

Seeds are "of relative importance".  Generally speaking the better seed earns more favorable matchups leading to less difficult matches as one advances.  Yes, there are examples where this isn't always the case.  IJo's goal is to win a NT as it should be.  I'm sure he would rather have the easiest path possible before meeting the best of the best.  

While there may be easier paths to the finals, there is no easier path to the championship - you gotta wrestle them all (the king included) and I would suggest the order doesn't matter - assuming that a championship is the sole goal - that second is the same as fifth.

Except you don't have to wrestle everyone to win it all.  You only have to wrestle 4-5 matches to win it.  With this line of thinking he should strategically try to place himself in the bracket and get the 8 seed.  Best time to beat Imar is in the Qtrs.

[Huckfinn]

While there may be easier paths to the finals, there is no easier path to the championship - you gotta wrestle them all (the king included) and I would suggest the order doesn't matter - assuming that a championship is the sole goal - that second is the same as fifth.

Except you don't have to wrestle everyone to win it all.  You only have to wrestle 4-5 matches to win it.  With this line of thinking he should strategically try to place himself in the bracket and get the 8 seed.  Best time to beat Imar is in the Qtrs.

Micah, your post makes no sense to me.   The 8-seed likely has to beat 9-4-1-2 seeds.    I think you are overthinking this.    I agree with npope's statement, it is essentially correct if you accept that superior wrestlers are advancing in the championship bracket.

[Huckfinn]

It's funny how everyone thinks IMar and Snyder are sure things.  The thing I love about the sport of wrestling is that on any given day, the wheels can fall off the bus and all heck can break loose. 

Let the games begin 

You've been watching that "Hoosiers" movie.

Speaking of Imar, I saw somewhere a short video of the Illinois team having an arm wrestling tournament.   Not only did Imar win it,  he didn't even have to strain to win against bigger guys.   That boy is not human.   

[npope]

Except you don't have to wrestle everyone to win it all.  You only have to wrestle 4-5 matches to win it.  With this line of thinking he should strategically try to place himself in the bracket and get the 8 seed.  Best time to beat Imar is in the Qtrs.

The comment wasn't meant in a literal sense, as in wrestling everyone in the tournament. Rather, that weight is littered with a lot of guys of comparable talent, so one path isn't necessarily easier than another path. And yes, IMar is the "king" among the group (until somebody beats him). The point is, if the singular goal is to be champ, i.e., no other placing matters, then wrestling IMar earlier or later is a moot point; one will have to run the gauntlet of wrestling "everybody" and beat them to be champ. That's my point.

[Micah]

Except you don't have to wrestle everyone to win it all.  You only have to wrestle 4-5 matches to win it.  With this line of thinking he should strategically try to place himself in the bracket and get the 8 seed.  Best time to beat Imar is in the Qtrs.

The comment wasn't meant in a literal sense, as in wrestling everyone in the tournament. Rather, that weight is littered with a lot of guys of comparable talent, so one path isn't necessarily easier than another path. And yes, IMar is the "king" among the group (until somebody beats him). The point is, if the singular goal is to be champ, i.e., no other placing matters, then wrestling IMar earlier or later is a moot point; one will have to run the gauntlet of wrestling "everybody" and beat them to be champ. That's my point.

Then you should agree it is in Jordan's best interest to catch Imar at his most vulnerable time which would be in the qtrs and mean an 8 seed.

Besides now I think I know why some of you reasoning is flawed. Nobody has a singular goal of just winning first place.  If this were true guys would be withdrawing after their first loss.  I have never seen anyone withdraw unless of injury and even then they try to wrestle at NCAAs.   I do think a set of goals probably goes something like this:

1. Take first
2. Place as high as possible
3. Win as many matches as possible
4. Score as many team points as possible

If you don't think seeding helps you achieve any of these goals I can't really debate with you anymore.

[Micah]

While there may be easier paths to the finals, there is no easier path to the championship - you gotta wrestle them all (the king included) and I would suggest the order doesn't matter - assuming that a championship is the sole goal - that second is the same as fifth.

Except you don't have to wrestle everyone to win it all.  You only have to wrestle 4-5 matches to win it.  With this line of thinking he should strategically try to place himself in the bracket and get the 8 seed.  Best time to beat Imar is in the Qtrs.

Micah, your post makes no sense to me.   The 8-seed likely has to beat 9-4-1-2 seeds.    I think you are overthinking this.    I agree with npope's statement, it is essentially correct if you accept that superior wrestlers are advancing in the championship bracket.

8 and 1 meet in the qtrs and everyone knows the qtrs are pure chaos. It goes: unseeded guy, 9, 1, 4 or 5, guy from other side of bracket.  I know you had problems visualizing a bracket before in a different thread do I will give you a pass.