Badgers Excited to Battle at Big Tens | Kirk Nelson

[hammer]

"Looking at the team scores, if Wick and Amos were wrestling this year we likely move up to 10th."

That's actually kind of sad when you think about it and they're supposed to be the big guns.

"Krattiger and Barnett both scored only 1 team point."

Add Model to that group because he had a very good B1G tournament last season (wrestling above seed) along Krattiger and for whatever reason, they just didn't have it this weekend.

To clarify, we do likely finish 10th with them, but there not many points between 5th and 9th.  If Krattiger and Barnett can both score 6 to 8 points, which isn't crazy, that could put us as high as 5th.

Ok that is promising but the big problem is those two we are talking about got one point. Dang I want or I am wishing this team to be top 5! Good luck for those going forward.

[wrestlemania]

To clarify, we do likely finish 10th with them, but there not many points between 5th and 9th.  If Krattiger and Barnett can both score 6 to 8 points, which isn't crazy, that could put us as high as 5th.

On that point I agree with you: ideally 10th this weekend w/o Wick and Amos; fifth with them if all else goes well.

[DocWrestling]

Studs are studs when you get 9 #1 seeds winning and one #2 seed.  Many other upsets but the best are the best and when a team has a couple then you have a special team.

There are levels of wrestlers in the Big Ten.  And quite a bit of differences in talent from first place to fifth place to 10th place.

More often than not you don't see to many guys finish 8th-14th at big tens and then in future years get into top 5. That is a huge jump. They are actually more likely to be passed by incoming freshman than they are to move up into that top tier.

[hammer]

Studs are studs when you get 9 #1 seeds winning and one #2 seed.  Many other upsets but the best are the best and when a team has a couple then you have a special team.

There are levels of wrestlers in the Big Ten.  And quite a bit of differences in talent from first place to fifth place to 10th place.

More often than not you don't see to many guys finish 8th-14th at big tens and then in future years get into top 5. That is a huge jump. They are actually more likely to be passed by incoming freshman than they are to move up into that top tier.

I may agree with that but do you have data that backs the 8 to 14 place up?

[mkm13]

Studs are studs when you get 9 #1 seeds winning and one #2 seed.  Many other upsets but the best are the best and when a team has a couple then you have a special team.

There are levels of wrestlers in the Big Ten.  And quite a bit of differences in talent from first place to fifth place to 10th place.

More often than not you don't see to many guys finish 8th-14th at big tens and then in future years get into top 5. That is a huge jump. They are actually more likely to be passed by incoming freshman than they are to move up into that top tier.

For the most part i agree, but every weight is different. This year, for example, the 2nd best at 125 is very weak compared to many years, and there is not a big gap between the 2nd best and 10th best.  Now the gap between #1 and #2 is huge. 

[neutral]

Studs are studs when you get 9 #1 seeds winning and one #2 seed.  Many other upsets but the best are the best and when a team has a couple then you have a special team.

There are levels of wrestlers in the Big Ten.  And quite a bit of differences in talent from first place to fifth place to 10th place.

More often than not you don't see to many guys finish 8th-14th at big tens and then in future years get into top 5. That is a huge jump. They are actually more likely to be passed by incoming freshman than they are to move up into that top tier.

So, maybe - if a guy doesn't place 8th or higher by the end of his Soph. year ... his scholarship should be pulled for a new recruit?

[Handles II]

Studs are studs when you get 9 #1 seeds winning and one #2 seed.  Many other upsets but the best are the best and when a team has a couple then you have a special team.

There are levels of wrestlers in the Big Ten.  And quite a bit of differences in talent from first place to fifth place to 10th place.

More often than not you don't see to many guys finish 8th-14th at big tens and then in future years get into top 5. That is a huge jump. They are actually more likely to be passed by incoming freshman than they are to move up into that top tier.

There's a very good chance that if they are on a (partial) scholarship (very few in the sport are on a full scholarship), that it will be reduced or revolked. They can stay on the team and earn back what they lost, they may be able to get some other types of financial assistance, but with only 9.9 available per team, nobody is "locked in" to their scholarship amount for the full duration of their time on the team. New guys need to be brought in. It's how it works for virtually every sport that isn't a "head count".

So, maybe - if a guy doesn't place 8th or higher by the end of his Soph. year ... his scholarship should be pulled for a new recruit?

[DocWrestling]

Those are hard decisions.  I think some probably treat it like the pros and if you are not good enough the university is not giving you any more money.  Others struggle with loyalty and believe in the athlete to get better.  Injuries and redshirts complicate this even more.  Is it about the sport and success or is it about the student athletes.

[vsmf2010]

Those are hard decisions.  I think some probably treat it like the pros and if you are not good enough the university is not giving you any more money.  Others struggle with loyalty and believe in the athlete to get better.  Injuries and redshirts complicate this even more.  Is it about the sport and success or is it about the student athletes.

Hard decisions and complex decisions. Everyone's situation is different. Some athletes come from a family that can easily afford the tuition if there is little or no scholarship, or have an Edvest account, other athletes will have to take student loans for every penny that is not covered by the UW and many fall somewhere in between. Also if you voluntarily give up some of your scholarship that may help to recruit other athletes with that money. That could make for team success, provide for better practice partners but could also bring in an athlete that could beat you out. Doc I like your point about the student athlete. It often gets lost that with wins and losses, NCAA births, and All Americans that these are young men with hopes and dreams that are busting their a** to try to get a degree and be really good in a very difficult sport.

[Woody38]

After watching the ACC, Big 12, and Big 10 Finals, I noticed a very significant difference in the talent level.  It is nice to see Wisconsin kids doing well in the other conferences but I doubt that MOST of them would have any better success than the Wisconsin kids wrestling for the Badgers.   The Big 10 conference is so tough.

[Handles II]

After watching the ACC, Big 12, and Big 10 Finals, I noticed a very significant difference in the talent level.  It is nice to see Wisconsin kids doing well in the other conferences but I doubt that MOST of them would have any better success than the Wisconsin kids wrestling for the Badgers.   The Big 10 conference is so tough.

And this might be part of the reason why some of them chose schools in other conferences. It might be an easier task getting an NCAA berth, and for some, that's the piece of the pie they want.

[vsmf2010]

After watching the ACC, Big 12, and Big 10 Finals, I noticed a very significant difference in the talent level.  It is nice to see Wisconsin kids doing well in the other conferences but I doubt that MOST of them would have any better success than the Wisconsin kids wrestling for the Badgers.   The Big 10 conference is so tough.

That is a very interesting take. I am curious how they are going to seed the NCAA with no tournaments and no inter-conference match ups. I suspect there may be some fairly highly seeded wrestlers from those conferences being knocked off by much lower seeded big ten wrestlers with .500 records in the early rounds.

[Wis-Mallard]

The Big 10 gets a lot more automatic qualifiers than the other conferences. It might be easier to have a good record in the other conferences but I don't know if it's significantly easier to qualify for the NCAA's in the other conferences. There are a lot of good wrestlers in the other conferences too.

[dman]

The Big 10 gets a lot more automatic qualifiers than the other conferences. It might be easier to have a good record in the other conferences but I don't know if it's significantly easier to qualify for the NCAA's in the other conferences. There are a lot of good wrestlers in the other conferences too.

Agreed.  No one can deny the Big Ten's depth, but the talent level at the top isn't that far off from each conference.

[mkm13]

Based on Wrestlestat, the big 10 has the following amount of wrestlers at the top 5 of their weight:

125: 2 (including easily the best)
133: 2 (2nd and 3rd best)
141: 4 of top 5 (easily the top 3)
149: 2 (2nd and 5th best)
157: 2 (2nd and 5th best)
165: 1 (the best. If Wick was not sitting out, would be 2)
174: 5 of top 6 (easily the best)
184: 2 (the best)
197: 3 (the best)
285: 3 (easily the 3 best)

Based on that, I would say the talent level at the top is not that close, especially if you consider the depth of top talent.  The big 10 has atleast 1 wrestler ranked 1st or 2nd at each weight.  In addition, they have atleast 2 wrestlers ranked in the top 5 at each weight except for 165, which would also be the case if Wick wrestled this year.  If you want to be wrestling in the big 10 championship finals, you better plan on being a top 3 or 4 wrestler in the country.  For 30% of the weights (141, 174, 285), that still might not be enough.

So having said that, which young wrestlers on the roster do you see that have any shot at wrestling in the big 10 finals?  I can't see any currently.  Will really need to hope Amos and Hamiti are at that level for any kind of quick turnaround.  In the big 10, you need those guys to have a chance.