How exciting that wrestling is almost here. Should be another great year for the CWC. Weyauwega looks primed for a run to team state with the sectional change, plus a nice crop of freshman talent. Should be very competitive for the conference title as well, looking forward to it. Any predictions for this year?
Pretty quiet on this Forum.
CWC should get interesting now that W-F beat highly ranked Stratford and Random Lake yesterday. W-F even forfeited that last few matches after securing the victory in a couple duals to keep their wrestlers fresh. Team scores could have been higher. W-F also defeated Oshkosh West, Neenah, and New London. Check results on Trackwrestling.
Heck of a dual last night between W-F and W-B. Potential dual of the year. Wega seems to be in the drivers seat in the CWC.
Waupaca-Fremont?
Quote from: muskie89 on January 05, 2024, 02:04:47 PMWaupaca-Fremont?
Everyone needs something to complain about. ::)
Legit.
Shiocton over WF 40-33.
Looks like WF might need to recruit a couple more Waupaca kids before they can take the driver seat in this conference...
Wittenberg still has a chance to shake everything up next week if they can beat Shiocton. Then it all comes down to the Conference Tourney!
Shiocton showed some homegrown grit last night.
Congrats on the big win. Could have been much worse had they won the flip. WB will be a fun dual.
Quote from: muskie89 on January 19, 2024, 10:48:01 AMShiocton showed some homegrown grit last night.
Congrats on the big win. Could have been much worse had they won the flip. WB will be a fun dual.
You sure about that???? ;)
Quote from: BrokeHimOnBottom on January 18, 2024, 10:49:00 PMShiocton over WF 40-33.
Looks like WF might need to recruit a couple more Waupaca kids before they can take the driver seat in this conference...
Wittenberg still has a chance to shake everything up next week if they can beat Shiocton. Then it all comes down to the Conference Tourney!
[/quote :'(
First off, I'd like to say hats off to Shiocton they had a heck of a dual. Nothing better than seeing 2 great CWC teams battling match for match. It's a shame WF had stud 120 out due to injury, probably would have messed things up for Shiocton.
However, I'm with Bolognapony...I'm sick and tired of people complaing/looking for excuses for their own teams lack of performances. Say what you want but when you step foot on the line it's up to the two individuals at that moment.
Tough night last night for WF. Shiocton definitely out wrestled them. However I think everyone can agree Tim and Trevor will have this team ready to wrestle for bigger things than a darn conference team title.
Wow what a finish to the dual portion of the conference. Just a few takeaways from the season this far heading into next week's tournament:
Top 5 teams
Shiocton
Wega
Wittenberg
Amherst
Pittsville
Those were three incredible duals between the top three teams wow! All came down to a match or two and bonus points. Maybe the strongest group of three teams I can remember. What a rivalry between them. Hats off to Shiocton for coming out on top. The next three teams had some darn good duals themselves as well. The rest of the conference just really struggling with numbers.
Wega and Shiocton are both legitimate contenders to make team state. Wb would be as well if not for being D2 this year. Nice finish for the Amherst team with the young rookie head coach and Pittsville has a nice team. Bonduel got hit with the injury bug a little bit.
Next Saturday should be a great day of wrestling with some very entertaining and competitive matches throughout the day. Not sure how Shiocton hosts two years in a row but hey they did a good job last year. I'm sure their coaches will be strutting around in their cowboy boots though. See you all next week can't wait!
Anyone have predictions this weekend? I think Waupaca Fremont and Clintonville/New London Shiocton have a nice battle coming up. ;D
Quote from: bolognapony on January 30, 2024, 03:10:53 PMAnyone have predictions this weekend? I think Waupaca Fremont and Clintonville/New London Shiocton have a nice battle coming up. ;D
Lol Shiocton doesn't have any new London kids, and the "Clintonville" kids parents actually bought a house and moved there 4 years ago. Unlike Wega who uses the 💩 factory to pick up kids from surrounding schools.
Quote from: pin23 on January 30, 2024, 09:17:17 PMQuote from: bolognapony on January 30, 2024, 03:10:53 PMAnyone have predictions this weekend? I think Waupaca Fremont and Clintonville/New London Shiocton have a nice battle coming up. ;D
Lol Shiocton doesn't have any new London kids, and the "Clintonville" kids parents actually bought a house and moved there 4 years ago. Unlike Wega who uses the 💩 factory to pick up kids from surrounding schools.
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
Quote from: bolognapony on January 30, 2024, 03:10:53 PMAnyone have predictions this weekend? I think Waupaca Fremont and Clintonville/New London Shiocton have a nice battle coming up. ;D
What kids on Shiocton are from Clintonville and New London? Generally curious ???
Does it really matter where kids are from? Some find better educational programs or their parents move. Why take it out on the kids? Everyone still starts every match the same no matter what school they are from. Looking forward to a competitive battle on Saturday between WF and Shiocton. Classic rivalry between two good teams!
I just hope I don't see cowboy boots everywhere in Shiocton, kinda tacky if you ask me. May the best team win!
Quote from: WFactory19 on January 31, 2024, 11:25:04 AMDoes it really matter where kids are from? Some find better educational programs or their parents move. Why take it out on the kids? Everyone still starts every match the same no matter what school they are from. Looking forward to a competitive battle on Saturday between WF and Shiocton. Classic rivalry between two good teams!
I just hope I don't see cowboy boots everywhere in Shiocton, kinda tacky if you ask me. May the best team win!
Don't count out WB! Although their duals didn't go quite the way they wanted them to, they still have a chance to shake things up and could win the tournament!
I just hope I don't see cowboy boots everywhere in Shiocton, kinda tacky if you ask me.
WFFactory19, you looking to start a fight?
Quote from: Grapl on January 31, 2024, 12:35:13 PMI just hope I don't see cowboy boots everywhere in Shiocton, kinda tacky if you ask me.
WFFactory19, you looking to start a fight?
Lol nothing to fight about. I thought I'm allowed to have an opinion in today's day and age?
Quote from: WFactory19 on February 01, 2024, 09:00:55 AMQuote from: Grapl on January 31, 2024, 12:35:13 PMI just hope I don't see cowboy boots everywhere in Shiocton, kinda tacky if you ask me.
WFFactory19, you looking to start a fight?
Lol nothing to fight about. I thought I'm allowed to have an opinion in today's day and age?
Agree 100% good luck to all this weekend!
Congrats to all on a great season. Which team do we think will have the most state qualifiers? I think it will be Wega (predicting 7 qualifiers).
Congrats to shiocton on a hard fought conference championship. Wega and Wittenberg battle all the way till the end. However, I believe some questionable calls by the refs and rowdy atmosphere ultimately was the reason why the chiefs pull this one off. I think we can all agree that it's the Warhawk's conference to lose for the up coming years. Also amazing end to one of the best HWT careers of all time. Vanden Hoffman truly earned the MVP award today.
Quote from: Bulleyes25 on February 03, 2024, 05:39:49 PMCongrats to shiocton on a hard fought conference championship. Wega and Wittenberg battle all the way till the end. However, I believe some questionable calls by the refs and rowdy atmosphere ultimately was the reason why the chiefs pull this one off. I think we can all agree that it's the Warhawk's conference to lose for the up coming years. Also amazing end to one of the best HWT careers of all time. Vanden Hoffman truly earned the MVP award today.
100% agree. However, I think Bennett Gunderson in his prime would've beaten Hoffman.
Quote from: Birnamwoodfan on February 03, 2024, 05:45:22 PMQuote from: Bulleyes25 on February 03, 2024, 05:39:49 PMCongrats to shiocton on a hard fought conference championship. Wega and Wittenberg battle all the way till the end. However, I believe some questionable calls by the refs and rowdy atmosphere ultimately was the reason why the chiefs pull this one off. I think we can all agree that it's the Warhawk's conference to lose for the up coming years. Also amazing end to one of the best HWT careers of all time. Vanden Hoffman truly earned the MVP award today.
100% agree. However, I think Bennett Gunderson in his prime would've beaten Hoffman.
That would be a fun match up, however I truly believe it's hard to match up to Hoffman due to his athletic abilities.
Quote from: Bulleyes25 on February 03, 2024, 05:39:49 PMCongrats to shiocton on a hard fought conference championship. Wega and Wittenberg battle all the way till the end. However, I believe some questionable calls by the refs and rowdy atmosphere ultimately was the reason why the chiefs pull this one off. I think we can all agree that it's the Warhawk's conference to lose for the up coming years. Also amazing end to one of the best HWT careers of all time. Vanden Hoffman truly earned the MVP award today.
Lol considering he is a 215 pounder and pumped up to a weaker weight class I don't believe he earned it. 106,150 and 165 were the toughest weight classes and those winners earned it today.
Quote from: pin23 on February 03, 2024, 11:12:58 PMQuote from: Bulleyes25 on February 03, 2024, 05:39:49 PMCongrats to shiocton on a hard fought conference championship. Wega and Wittenberg battle all the way till the end. However, I believe some questionable calls by the refs and rowdy atmosphere ultimately was the reason why the chiefs pull this one off. I think we can all agree that it's the Warhawk's conference to lose for the up coming years. Also amazing end to one of the best HWT careers of all time. Vanden Hoffman truly earned the MVP award today.
Lol considering he is a 215 pounder and pumped up to a weaker weight class I don't believe he earned it. 106,150 and 165 were the toughest weight classes and those winners earned it today.
With all due respect I don't think you know what you're talking about. Hoffman has been the overall best hwt with his size and athleticism abilities.
Lol! This is what we are doing now? Vanden Hoffman was deserving of the conference MVP without a doubt. Not one kid in the conference can beat him and he's a senior that's absolutely rolling. I get he didn't have the "toughest" bracket but so what? Does that make him less of a MVP wrestler...no.
On the other hand, congratulations to Shiocton they earned the hard fought conference title. They needed their whole team to step up and win in order to beat Wega's 6 champs. However, don't get too comfortable on top for long ;D
Quote from: Birnamwoodfan on February 03, 2024, 05:45:22 PMQuote from: Bulleyes25 on February 03, 2024, 05:39:49 PMCongrats to shiocton on a hard fought conference championship. Wega and Wittenberg battle all the way till the end. However, I believe some questionable calls by the refs and rowdy atmosphere ultimately was the reason why the chiefs pull this one off. I think we can all agree that it's the Warhawk's conference to lose for the up coming years. Also amazing end to one of the best HWT careers of all time. Vanden Hoffman truly earned the MVP award today.
100% agree. However, I think Bennett Gunderson in his prime would've beaten Hoffman.
Someone call up Whitewing from his prime... free airline tickets for everyone :o
Quote from: WFactory19 on February 04, 2024, 08:55:16 AMLol! This is what we are doing now? Vanden Hoffman was deserving of the conference MVP without a doubt. Not one kid in the conference can beat him and he's a senior that's absolutely rolling. I get he didn't have the "toughest" bracket but so what? Does that make him less of a MVP wrestler...no.
On the other hand, congratulations to Shiocton they earned the hard fought conference title. They needed their whole team to step up and win in order to beat Wega's 6 champs. However, don't get too comfortable on top for long ;D
Congrats on 2nd place.
Quote from: muskie89 on February 05, 2024, 12:09:01 PMQuote from: WFactory19 on February 04, 2024, 08:55:16 AMLol! This is what we are doing now? Vanden Hoffman was deserving of the conference MVP without a doubt. Not one kid in the conference can beat him and he's a senior that's absolutely rolling. I get he didn't have the "toughest" bracket but so what? Does that make him less of a MVP wrestler...no.
On the other hand, congratulations to Shiocton they earned the hard fought conference title. They needed their whole team to step up and win in order to beat Wega's 6 champs. However, don't get too comfortable on top for long ;D
Congrats on 2nd place.
Classic Shiocton Fan :-[
Quote from: Bulleyes25 on February 06, 2024, 01:02:31 PMQuote from: muskie89 on February 05, 2024, 12:09:01 PMQuote from: WFactory19 on February 04, 2024, 08:55:16 AMLol! This is what we are doing now? Vanden Hoffman was deserving of the conference MVP without a doubt. Not one kid in the conference can beat him and he's a senior that's absolutely rolling. I get he didn't have the "toughest" bracket but so what? Does that make him less of a MVP wrestler...no.
On the other hand, congratulations to Shiocton they earned the hard fought conference title. They needed their whole team to step up and win in order to beat Wega's 6 champs. However, don't get too comfortable on top for long ;D
Congrats on 2nd place.
Classic Shiocton Fan :-[
Quote from: Bulleyes25 on February 06, 2024, 01:02:31 PMQuote from: muskie89 on February 05, 2024, 12:09:01 PMQuote from: WFactory19 on February 04, 2024, 08:55:16 AMLol! This is what we are doing now? Vanden Hoffman was deserving of the conference MVP without a doubt. Not one kid in the conference can beat him and he's a senior that's absolutely rolling. I get he didn't have the "toughest" bracket but so what? Does that make him less of a MVP wrestler...no.
On the other hand, congratulations to Shiocton they earned the hard fought conference title. They needed their whole team to step up and win in order to beat Wega's 6 champs. However, don't get too comfortable on top for long ;D
Congrats on 2nd place.
Classic Shiocton Fan :-[
Happy you said classic, and not classy. Because there is no such thing as a classy Shiocton fan.
My take on the conference this year...we saw some of the best duals in many years. It's something to celebrate that we brought crowded gyms to their feet for 2 hour duals.
IMO great chance 2 teams get to team state. Overall it's something to celebrate. WB May not quite contend next year but the top 2 will again be a dog fight next year.
We have a bunch of kids that will contend for the podium and there is a great chance we will have multiple girls contending for titles!!!
The CWC has represented well this year and hopefully will put exclamation points in the post season!!!
Quote from: bolognapony on February 07, 2024, 02:36:39 PMQuote from: Bulleyes25 on February 06, 2024, 01:02:31 PMQuote from: muskie89 on February 05, 2024, 12:09:01 PMQuote from: WFactory19 on February 04, 2024, 08:55:16 AMLol! This is what we are doing now? Vanden Hoffman was deserving of the conference MVP without a doubt. Not one kid in the conference can beat him and he's a senior that's absolutely rolling. I get he didn't have the "toughest" bracket but so what? Does that make him less of a MVP wrestler...no.
On the other hand, congratulations to Shiocton they earned the hard fought conference title. They needed their whole team to step up and win in order to beat Wega's 6 champs. However, don't get too comfortable on top for long ;D
Congrats on 2nd place.
Classic Shiocton Fan :-[
Happy you said classic, and not classy. Because there is no such thing as a classy Shiocton fan.
Like WF should be talking about class. I witnessed some parents and coaches berating and belittling kids after their matches at conference and it was absolutely sickening. I agree, Shiocton and their fans are definitely not classy, but you don't see their staff or or any other staff in the conference doing that kind of stuff!
Quote from: BrokeHimOnBottom on February 09, 2024, 12:38:00 PMQuote from: bolognapony on February 07, 2024, 02:36:39 PMQuote from: Bulleyes25 on February 06, 2024, 01:02:31 PMQuote from: muskie89 on February 05, 2024, 12:09:01 PMQuote from: WFactory19 on February 04, 2024, 08:55:16 AMLol! This is what we are doing now? Vanden Hoffman was deserving of the conference MVP without a doubt. Not one kid in the conference can beat him and he's a senior that's absolutely rolling. I get he didn't have the "toughest" bracket but so what? Does that make him less of a MVP wrestler...no.
On the other hand, congratulations to Shiocton they earned the hard fought conference title. They needed their whole team to step up and win in order to beat Wega's 6 champs. However, don't get too comfortable on top for long ;D
Congrats on 2nd place.
Classic Shiocton Fan :-[
Happy you said classic, and not classy. Because there is no such thing as a classy Shiocton fan.
Like WF should be talking about class. I witnessed some parents and coaches berating and belittling kids after their matches at conference and it was absolutely sickening. I agree, Shiocton and their fans are definitely not classy, but you don't see their staff or or any other staff in the conference doing that kind of stuff!
Shiocton fans obviously have way too much time on their hands watching our coaches intently. Must want to see how great coaching is done ;D
Good luck CWC conference at regionals this weekend! Btw, I have WF getting 8 state qualifiers.
Good Luck to all 3 CWC teams competing tomorrow in the team sectional. Very nice year for the conference.
Congratulations to WEYAUWEGA-Fremont on making it to team state. Very cool to have a representative from the CWC down at team state! 8) ;D
Congrats to WF! They made it out of a VERY tough team sectionals.
Quote from: Birnamwoodfan on February 15, 2024, 06:59:13 AMCongrats to WF! They made it out of a VERY tough team sectionals.
W/B should get some help with LC likely going up to D1 next year, if I understand the competitive balance rules. Overall should have very good representation down in madison next weekend. Very nice year for the CWC.
Quote from: Birnamwoodfan on February 15, 2024, 06:59:13 AMCongrats to WF! They made it out of a VERY tough team sectionals.
Congratulations to W/F.
Can only wrestle who they put in front of you.
WIAA geography is challenging.
I'm neither a W/F fan or Shiocton, but how awesome it would have been if Shiocton could have pulled off a win Tuesday and put 2 from the CWC at team state.
Good luck to all in the coming weeks.
Congratulations WF on qualifying for Team State! Super cool accomplishment for them and the CWC. It's always nice to see someone represent down at team state! Bring home the gold!!
8 through for the good guys.
Congrats to all of the state qualifiers from the conference! Shiocton and WF certainly are representing the conference well.
17 state qualifiers for the top 3 teams in the CWC this year. Incredible year, and if W-B was in D3, we probably see 2 or 3 more. Maybe not the best year in general for the CWC as it is far more top heavy than years past, but still very impressive. Shiocton, W-F, and W-B should all be proud. Congratulations to all 3 programs.
Quote from: Bulleyes25 on January 19, 2024, 01:49:08 PMTough night last night for WF. Shiocton definitely out wrestled them. However I think everyone can agree Tim and Trevor will have this team ready to wrestle for bigger things than a darn conference team title.
Great prediction from earlier in the year. Good luck to WF (Waupaca-Fremont) as they go to battle today!
Quote from: Birnamwoodfan on March 02, 2024, 08:28:40 AMQuote from: Bulleyes25 on January 19, 2024, 01:49:08 PMTough night last night for WF. Shiocton definitely out wrestled them. However I think everyone can agree Tim and Trevor will have this team ready to wrestle for bigger things than a darn conference team title.
Go cougars! Hopefully they build up a big enough lead and can FF out to save their guys for fennimore!
Great prediction from earlier in the year. Good luck to WF (Waupaca-Fremont) as they go to battle today!
Quote from: pin23 on March 02, 2024, 09:35:34 AMQuote from: Birnamwoodfan on March 02, 2024, 08:28:40 AMQuote from: Bulleyes25 on January 19, 2024, 01:49:08 PMTough night last night for WF. Shiocton definitely out wrestled them. However I think everyone can agree Tim and Trevor will have this team ready to wrestle for bigger things than a darn conference team title.
Go cougars! Hopefully they build up a big enough lead and can FF out to save their guys for fennimore!
Great prediction from earlier in the year. Good luck to WF (Waupaca-Fremont) as they go to battle today!
21-16 after 138
Who's talking now.
Go Warhawks
Quote from: Bulleyes25 on March 02, 2024, 11:04:49 AMQuote from: pin23 on March 02, 2024, 09:35:34 AMQuote from: Birnamwoodfan on March 02, 2024, 08:28:40 AMQuote from: Bulleyes25 on January 19, 2024, 01:49:08 PMTough night last night for WF. Shiocton definitely out wrestled them. However I think everyone can agree Tim and Trevor will have this team ready to wrestle for bigger things than a darn conference team title.
Go cougars! Hopefully they build up a big enough lead and can FF out to save their guys for fennimore!
Great prediction from earlier in the year. Good luck to WF (Waupaca-Fremont) as they go to battle today!
21-16 after 138
Who's talking now.
Go Warhawks
Just watched Trevor walk away during the 165 pound match, dual must be over! That's what he does!
Quote from: pin23 on March 02, 2024, 11:24:28 AMQuote from: Bulleyes25 on March 02, 2024, 11:04:49 AMQuote from: pin23 on March 02, 2024, 09:35:34 AMQuote from: Birnamwoodfan on March 02, 2024, 08:28:40 AMQuote from: Bulleyes25 on January 19, 2024, 01:49:08 PMTough night last night for WF. Shiocton definitely out wrestled them. However I think everyone can agree Tim and Trevor will have this team ready to wrestle for bigger things than a darn conference team title.
Go cougars! Hopefully they build up a big enough lead and can FF out to save their guys for fennimore!
Great prediction from earlier in the year. Good luck to WF (Waupaca-Fremont) as they go to battle today!
21-16 after 138
Who's talking now.
Go Warhawks
Just watched Trevor walk away during the 165 pound match, dual must be over! That's what he does!
Apparently it's a sin for a coach to get guys jacked up and prepared before matches...classic guys who talk behind their phones
Quote from: WFactory19 on March 02, 2024, 11:29:01 AMQuote from: pin23 on March 02, 2024, 11:24:28 AMQuote from: Bulleyes25 on March 02, 2024, 11:04:49 AMQuote from: pin23 on March 02, 2024, 09:35:34 AMQuote from: Birnamwoodfan on March 02, 2024, 08:28:40 AMQuote from: Bulleyes25 on January 19, 2024, 01:49:08 PMTough night last night for WF. Shiocton definitely out wrestled them. However I think everyone can agree Tim and Trevor will have this team ready to wrestle for bigger things than a darn conference team title.
Go cougars! Hopefully they build up a big enough lead and can FF out to save their guys for fennimore!
Great prediction from earlier in the year. Good luck to WF (Waupaca-Fremont) as they go to battle today!
21-16 after 138
Who's talking now.
Go Warhawks
Just watched Trevor walk away during the 165 pound match, dual must be over! That's what he does!
Apparently it's a sin for a coach to get guys jacked up and prepared before matches...classic guys who talk behind their phones
At least Waupaca-Fremont had a slightly better showing at Team State than they did at Individual State last weekend. Hopefully more CWC teams can get into that sectional next year!
You all should just be thankful that you're not D2. Wega and Shiocton wouldn't stand a chance in the Oconto Falls sectional!
Quote from: pin23 on March 02, 2024, 11:24:28 AMQuote from: Bulleyes25 on March 02, 2024, 11:04:49 AMQuote from: pin23 on March 02, 2024, 09:35:34 AMQuote from: Birnamwoodfan on March 02, 2024, 08:28:40 AMQuote from: Bulleyes25 on January 19, 2024, 01:49:08 PMTough night last night for WF. Shiocton definitely out wrestled them. However I think everyone can agree Tim and Trevor will have this team ready to wrestle for bigger things than a darn conference team title.
Go cougars! Hopefully they build up a big enough lead and can FF out to save their guys for fennimore!
Great prediction from earlier in the year. Good luck to WF (Waupaca-Fremont) as they go to battle today!
21-16 after 138
Who's talking now.
Go Warhawks
Just watched Trevor walk away during the 165 pound match, dual must be over! That's what he does!
Going to be a long spring in shiocton. Waters low, so you guys can't even poach walleyes. Maybe you will have more time to recruit kids from Clintonville. Knock some boots, boys.
Quote from: Birnamwoodfan on March 02, 2024, 11:50:51 AMYou all should just be thankful that you're not D2. Wega and Shiocton wouldn't stand a chance in the Oconto Falls sectional!
Funniest thing I've read all year.Thats a losing mentality if I've ever heard one ;D Sounds like an excuse for a team with a few down years coming
Quote from: bolognapony on March 02, 2024, 07:50:08 PMQuote from: pin23 on March 02, 2024, 11:24:28 AMQuote from: Bulleyes25 on March 02, 2024, 11:04:49 AMQuote from: pin23 on March 02, 2024, 09:35:34 AMQuote from: Birnamwoodfan on March 02, 2024, 08:28:40 AMQuote from: Bulleyes25 on January 19, 2024, 01:49:08 PMTough night last night for WF. Shiocton definitely out wrestled them. However I think everyone can agree Tim and Trevor will have this team ready to wrestle for bigger things than a darn conference team title.
Go cougars! Hopefully they build up a big enough lead and can FF out to save their guys for fennimore!
Great prediction from earlier in the year. Good luck to WF (Waupaca-Fremont) as they go to battle today!
21-16 after 138
Who's talking now.
Go Warhawks
Just watched Trevor walk away during the 165 pound match, dual must be over! That's what he does!
Going to be a long spring in shiocton. Waters low, so you guys can't even poach walleyes. Maybe you will have more time to recruit kids from Clintonville. Knock some boots, boys.
Haha not wrong! I wonder if they will find a few extra deer too?
All the hatred on this thread.
I THINK THERE SHOULD BE A CWC ALUMNI SUMMER DUAL/GRUDGE MATCH...... THEN THE ANGER CAN BE TAKEN OUT.
Unless everyone talking smack is just a bunch of dads who never wrestled reliving life through their children's lives ???
But that'd make for an interesting dual too lol.