Barry Davis

[wrastle63]

I think you all just need to prepare yourself, and not be surprised or disappointed when Brandvold/Ruschell are named interim coaches for next year, and after the one year on interim basis one of them is the new permanent head coach.  Rumors are running wild that this is exactly what will happen.

I wonder who would come in then as an assistant? Also would they both come back or just one?

[bigoil]

Wow, you are a genius GradeTough.  If you had to just take in-state talent WI would be 10 to 14 in the Big10 every year.  But you think their going to recruit and get better guys than Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois, Minnesota............Ill stop with those schools.  Guess what?  It's never going to happen.

Really?  If you're talking recent history I'll agree with you...but certainly not historically true.

Here are the last five years according to Flo:  5 year cycle: #18, NR, #20, NR, NR

Historically?

2012:  #8 overall behind Iowa, Michigan, and Illinois.  Ahead of the rest.  Including this year what were the previous four years?  #8, #14, #UR, #12

http://d1collegewrestling.net/Recruiting_Rankings2012.html
https://www.flowrestling.org/rankings/6031439-2012-recruiting-class-rankings/14106-2012-recruiting-class-rankings

2011:  #14 overall behind Nebraska, Ohio State, Penn St. but ranked right there with Minnesota.  Ahead of Iowa, Michigan and Illinois.

https://www.flowrestling.org/rankings/6031438-2011-recruiting-class-rankings/14105-2011-recruiting-class-rankings

2008:  #4 overall behind Minnesota.  Ahead of everyone else.

http://d1collegewrestling.net/Recruiting_Rankings2008.html

These are the classes that Wisconsin got. These are not a reflection of the in-state talent the state of Wisconsin produced. In fact, nearly all the high quality recruits the University has brought in justify those rankings have been out-of-state talents.

J. Thielke #4 (WI)
T. Graff #6 (CO)
A. Howe #11 (IN)
R. Christensen #22 (WA)
H. Ritter #26 (MD)
I. Jordan #27 (OH)
E. Wick #29 (CA)
Z. Wick #32 (CA)
R. Taylor #35 (OH)
R. Robertson #39 (IL)
B. Jordan #48 (OH)
J. Jimenez #50 (IL)
T. Brandvold #61 (WI)
C. Medbury #62 (CO)
E. Stickley #92 (OH)

I realize these guys didn't wrestle at UW but were part of that Thielke class-
McCauley - #1 wasn't he?
Caldwell ranked?
One more kid I think I'm forgetting in that class that chose to wrestle elsewhere, Laux?

[FoldEmUp]

Wow, you are a genius GradeTough.  If you had to just take in-state talent WI would be 10 to 14 in the Big10 every year.  But you think their going to recruit and get better guys than Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois, Minnesota............Ill stop with those schools.  Guess what?  It's never going to happen.

Really?  If you're talking recent history I'll agree with you...but certainly not historically true.

Here are the last five years according to Flo:  5 year cycle: #18, NR, #20, NR, NR

Historically?

2012:  #8 overall behind Iowa, Michigan, and Illinois.  Ahead of the rest.  Including this year what were the previous four years?  #8, #14, #UR, #12

http://d1collegewrestling.net/Recruiting_Rankings2012.html
https://www.flowrestling.org/rankings/6031439-2012-recruiting-class-rankings/14106-2012-recruiting-class-rankings

2011:  #14 overall behind Nebraska, Ohio State, Penn St. but ranked right there with Minnesota.  Ahead of Iowa, Michigan and Illinois.

https://www.flowrestling.org/rankings/6031438-2011-recruiting-class-rankings/14105-2011-recruiting-class-rankings

2008:  #4 overall behind Minnesota.  Ahead of everyone else.

http://d1collegewrestling.net/Recruiting_Rankings2008.html

These are the classes that Wisconsin got. These are not a reflection of the in-state talent the state of Wisconsin produced. In fact, nearly all the high quality recruits the University has brought in justify those rankings have been out-of-state talents.

J. Thielke #4 (WI)
T. Graff #6 (CO)
A. Howe #11 (IN)
R. Christensen #22 (WA)
H. Ritter #26 (MD)
I. Jordan #27 (OH)
E. Wick #29 (CA)
Z. Wick #32 (CA)
R. Taylor #35 (OH)
R. Robertson #39 (IL)
B. Jordan #48 (OH)
J. Jimenez #50 (IL)
T. Brandvold #61 (WI)
C. Medbury #62 (CO)
E. Stickley #92 (OH)

His point wasn't about in-state.  He said we don't have the in-state talent.  Given.  But then he said we can't recruit the same as those other schools.  That's patently false.

[FoldEmUp]

I think you all just need to prepare yourself, and not be surprised or disappointed when Brandvold/Ruschell are named interim coaches for next year, and after the one year on interim basis one of them is the new permanent head coach.  Rumors are running wild that this is exactly what will happen.

I'm calling bologna!

There's not a better way to tank the program than to put an interim tag on the next coach.  Try to get recruits to come when you have an interim tag on you when every coach in the nation will point out that Wisconsin can't even tell you if their coach will be back the next year or not.

Barry Alvarez is not that dumb.

[bigG]

OMG, we were jacked up around here with the prospect that McAuley was supposedly coming here.

[DocWrestling]

I think you all just need to prepare yourself, and not be surprised or disappointed when Brandvold/Ruschell are named interim coaches for next year, and after the one year on interim basis one of them is the new permanent head coach.  Rumors are running wild that this is exactly what will happen.

If this happens I will still be excited because they are young and will connect better with recruits.  I just hope they also demand and push for changes from the UW administration.  It has been obvious for years that the present and past wrestlers have connected with the assistants more than with Coach Davis.

I just hope that whoever the new coach is has the guts to demand changes from the administration before they take the job.

[wrestlemania]

There's not a better way to tank the program than to put an interim tag on the next coach.  Try to get recruits to come when you have an interim tag on you when every coach in the nation will point out that Wisconsin can't even tell you if their coach will be back the next year or not. Barry Alvarez is not that dumb.

No kidding. Why would you do that? You name interim head coach if something happens to the head guy just before or during a season not afterwards. Barry Davis is stepping down as head coach after the NCAAs, now they have the opportunity to hire a new coach. It's that simple. The current assistant's can apply for the job. BA will either hire one of them or someone else based on their qualifications and who he feels can do the job. There's no point in hiring someone for just one year and then opening the search all over again.

[FoldEmUp]

Wow, you are a genius GradeTough.  If you had to just take in-state talent WI would be 10 to 14 in the Big10 every year.  But you think their going to recruit and get better guys than Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois, Minnesota............Ill stop with those schools.  Guess what?  It's never going to happen.

...

His point wasn't about in-state.  He said we don't have the in-state talent.  Given.  But then he said we can't recruit the same as those other schools.  That's patently false.

I see. You were taking exception with the second half of the statement. That's fair.

I don't like his "never" assertion, as these things can change, but by and large, I agree that we will continue to lose to those schools on the aggregate. That doesn't mean we can't beat them from year to year. I don't believe we generally beat them for the best recruits.

And there was a time when Barry Davis was competitive recruiting as the head coach as I showed...but the result on the mat didn't show that.  I think someone like Ben Askren can recruit on a far greater level than Barry Davis.  IMO, he would put us up there in at least the next level after Penn St and Ohio State.

[DocWrestling]

LOL!   Do you seriously think it is just as hard to be top 20 in wrestling as it is in football?  Don't know what to say if you think wrestling has had the same success as football over past 20 years. 

Football has a lot more going against it than wrestling does.  In football we often wish we could be like the SEC.  Guess what, the Big Ten conference is the SEC on steroids for wrestling.

Football is on par to compete against the Power 5 conferences with 60+ teams on a par with them fighting for top 20.

Wrestling has about 30 teams nationally and that is probably stretching that are on a par with UW

Maybe you could start with Big ten championships or division titles if you just wanted to compare against Big Ten schools.  Ask random fans to name the top 3 or 4 football programs in the Big Ten and most are going to name Wisconsin.  Will that happen with wrestling?

[FoldEmUp]

I'll point to my previous comment that you can't compare wrestling and football this way because teams 1-20 in wrestling are much further apart in talent than teams 1-20 in football.  A top football team can (this years college playoff for example) lose to unranked football teams.  One of the top 5 wrestling teams losing to an unranked wrestling team is unfathomable.  Penn State has almost no chance of losing to teams ranked outside the top ten much less an unranked team.  So your comparison isn't very valid.  It isn't apples to apples.

[DocWrestling]

Do you really think Alvarez thinks the wrestling program has had the same success as the football program?

[FoldEmUp]

But, they're still the 20th best team. There are still 18 other teams with a better likelihood to beat the #1 team, in either sport. That's how rankings work.

Anyway, if you can literally look at the data and just not accept it, I'm going echo you. I don't know what to say.

That isn't true at all. The likelihoods aren't the same or really even close to the same.  The mere number of teams means nothing.  It's the quality of those team in relation to the upper echelon that matters.  The #20 ranked wrestling team has .1% chance of beating team #1.  The #20 ranked football team can have close to a 30-40% chance of beating team #1.  I know you don't believe that the difference in those two scenarios doesn't matter.  The football team is worlds, and I mean worlds, ahead of the wrestling team in terms of competitiveness with the top echelon of their sport right now.

[DocWrestling]

A #17 ranking out of 60 football teams is not the same as a #17 ranking out of 30 wrestling teams.

A #17 ranking in hockey does not even make the NCAA tournament and there are more competitive hockey teams than wrestling teams

[bigoil]

How many of the 80 div 1 teams even have fully funded 9.9 scholarships?

FB has five major conferences, wrestling has 1.5.

[Numbers]

I'll point to my previous comment that you can't compare wrestling and football this way because teams 1-20 in wrestling are much further apart in talent than teams 1-20 in football.  A top football team can (this years college playoff for example) lose to unranked football teams.  One of the top 5 wrestling teams losing to an unranked wrestling team is unfathomable.  Penn State has almost no chance of losing to teams ranked outside the top ten much less an unranked team.  So your comparison isn't very valid.  It isn't apples to apples.

Football has 130 D1 teams.  Wrestling has 76 this year.

So a top 25  (#25) football ranking is top 19% of teams competing in the D1.  Just making the "top 25" equivalent in wrestling is the 15th best team.  So the top 10 football ranking equivalent in wresting is top 6 when you consider the population of teams competing for that spot.