Regional Observations

Numbers · February 18, 2020, 05:57:19 PM

I understand 16 does not want to make weight to wrestle 1. But if there was no regional team points to be earned to qualify for team sectionals, that kid with actual match wins you can count on one hand probably stays home. Yet some kids won regionals this week by just making weight.

I doubt the WIAA will set standards to qualify for individual regionals. There are slot(s) for each varsity competitor per team. It is the team coach who decides if someone enters or not.

MNbadger · February 18, 2020, 06:20:55 PM

The dearth of coaches is from too much regulation and record keeping (weight certification, weight descent plans, etc.). Your system in WI is more onerous than ours in MN. If I had to do all the trackwrestling stuff my assistant does I would simply not coach at all.

Quote from: DocWrestling on February 18, 2020, 04:17:47 PM
Quote from: ramjet on February 18, 2020, 02:07:54 PM

My goodness just take a week or so and enjoy the ride, let this thing play out .....

You state "enjoy the ride". My point is that facts prove that many are not "enjoying the ride" because retention of wrestlers AND coaches is a problem.

missinghome · February 18, 2020, 08:15:02 PM

I don't agree with you Doc on Gold and Silver divisions. We don't need any more of the everybody gets a trophy thing. In my opinion that is where the numbers dropping thing is all coming from. Could you imagine if you did this in other sports. You loose your first playoff game in football and then you get to go play again? Again my opinion is you take away from the "champion" by watering it down with more levels.

TomM · February 18, 2020, 08:30:13 PM

Quote from: missinghome on February 18, 2020, 08:15:02 PM
I don't agree with you Doc on Gold and Silver divisions. We don't need any more of the everybody gets a trophy thing. In my opinion that is where the numbers dropping thing is all coming from. Could you imagine if you did this in other sports. You loose your first playoff game in football and then you get to go play again? Again my opinion is you take away from the "champion" by watering it down with more levels.

Wait, wait, wait.. WHAT ABOUT DOUBLE ELIMINATION?

Numbers · February 18, 2020, 08:39:46 PM

Quote from: TomM on February 18, 2020, 08:30:13 PM
Quote from: missinghome on February 18, 2020, 08:15:02 PM
I don't agree with you Doc on Gold and Silver divisions. We don't need any more of the everybody gets a trophy thing. In my opinion that is where the numbers dropping thing is all coming from. Could you imagine if you did this in other sports. You loose your first playoff game in football and then you get to go play again? Again my opinion is you take away from the "champion" by watering it down with more levels.

Wait, wait, wait.. WHAT ABOUT DOUBLE ELIMINATION?

Has not been at D1 sectionals in over 3 decades.
And also missing at D1 state for 4 per bracket.

Should be added for state but at least super sectionals could have wrestlebacks for top 8.

DocWrestling · February 18, 2020, 09:25:23 PM

Quote from: missinghome on February 18, 2020, 08:15:02 PM
I don't agree with you Doc on Gold and Silver divisions. We don't need any more of the everybody gets a trophy thing. In my opinion that is where the numbers dropping thing is all coming from. Could you imagine if you did this in other sports. You loose your first playoff game in football and then you get to go play again? Again my opinion is you take away from the "champion" by watering it down with more levels.

Football allows this. If you don't qualify for the playoffs you can schedule another game against a different team that also did not make the playoffs. College wrestling tournaments do this.

I agree with you that everyone does not deserve a trophy. That is why I don't think every wrestler or team should qualify for the championship postseason. But I do believe that every athlete and team likes to compete and have fun especially if they know they might have a chance to get a victory.

I am just not into wasting time with matchups that have a 99% probability of outcome and I don't think the loser in these matchups is having any fun. This is an individual tournament. In a dual it is much different because it is all about the team and a wrestler does not have to win to help his team.

ramjet · February 19, 2020, 02:44:02 PM

Quote from: DocWrestling on February 18, 2020, 04:17:47 PM
Quote from: ramjet on February 18, 2020, 02:07:54 PM

My goodness just take a week or so and enjoy the ride, let this thing play out .....

You state "enjoy the ride". My point is that facts prove that many are not "enjoying the ride" because retention of wrestlers AND coaches is a problem.

If that s the case then we would only have those who qualified for state come back each year. Yet new wrestlers join and some quit. But that's anything in life. Your thinking is flawed if you think 70% are NOT enjoying the ride. Maybe not enjoying the fact they didn't make it to state. The great thing about the sport is many come back and keep trying or they reach other goals acceptable to them. 70% my goodness that is ridiculous ......

YAAFAHB · February 20, 2020, 09:12:28 AM

Completely agree with your recommendations. The current format is broken and does not allow for the best wrestlers and teams to move forward to the state tournament. Case in point is Arrowhead. They are no way in the top tier of teams in the state and do not deserve to be in the state team tournament, but they benefit because they are constantly put in weak regionals/sectionals. There are plenty of higher ranked teams that will not make the tourney because they are in tough Regionals/Sectionals.

We need to force the WIAA to make a change

NoFooForU · February 20, 2020, 09:35:59 AM

Quote from: YAAFAHB on February 20, 2020, 09:12:28 AM
Completely agree with your recommendations. The current format is broken and does not allow for the best wrestlers and teams to move forward to the state tournament. Case in point is Arrowhead. They are no way in the top tier of teams in the state and do not deserve to be in the state team tournament, but they benefit because they are constantly put in weak regionals/sectionals. There are plenty of higher ranked teams that will not make the tourney because they are in tough Regionals/Sectionals.

We need to force the WIAA to make a change

A couple things here.... I would insert the word "all" into your second sentence...
"The current format is broken and does not allow all for the best wrestlers and teams to move forward..."
This would be more accurate.

Second point is regarding Arrowhead... They are one of the best teams in the State. They have 6-7 kids highly ranked and may end up with more than one State champ (O'Toole is a given). Not every team is capable of fielding 14 kids that are highly regarded. This is rarely the case. But, I do think Arrowhead has more success as a tournament team than a dual team, mostly because they have 3-4 hammers in their line up that will advance in a bracket and get those extra bonus points.

Do I think they benefit from getting in a lessor Regional, yes. But that doesn't mean they are any less of a top tier team.

YAAFAHB · February 20, 2020, 09:44:17 AM

Quote from: NoFooForU on February 20, 2020, 09:35:59 AM
Quote from: YAAFAHB on February 20, 2020, 09:12:28 AM

Second point is regarding Arrowhead... They are one of the best teams in the State. They have 6-7 kids highly ranked and may end up with more than one State champ (O'Toole is a given). Not every team is capable of fielding 14 kids that are highly regarded. This is rarely the case. But, I do think Arrowhead has more success as a tournament team than a dual team, mostly because they have 3-4 hammers in their line up that will advance in a bracket and get those extra bonus points.

Do I think they benefit from getting in a lessor Regional, yes. But that doesn't mean they are any less of a top tier team.

I should clarify. They are a good individual team, but not a good dual team and that is the problem with the current format of who gets into the State Team Tournament. There are plenty of teams better of them, who are in the same location within the state, that deserve to be in the state team tournament more than Arrowhead.

NoFooForU · February 20, 2020, 10:10:02 AM

Quote from: YAAFAHB on February 20, 2020, 09:44:17 AM

There are plenty of teams better of them, who are in the same location within the state, that deserve to be in the state team tournament more than Arrowhead.

The only team that can make a claim would be Burlington. That ride ended.