Terrible decision for Wisconsin to not even send a team to the
Cadet National Duals. The coaches must think that the
Wisconsin athlete is so bad that it is not even worth sending a team.
Minnesota, Iowa and Illinois certainly do not feel that way about their
athletes. Money is always a factor, but those states find a way.
I'll weigh in on this (no pun intended). The WWF assessed what would be the best utilization of funds, as well as what would benefit the most wrestlers in creating opportunities for competition and overall development. They created the WWF Training Team etc. on the belief that doing so provides greater opportunity to a much greater number of Wisconsin wrestlers to achieve these objectives. Wisconsin Cadets/Juniors have the opportunity to travel as a team for a nominal cost to Indy for Central Regionals, Northern Plains Juniors in Waterloo, IA and the Cadet World Team Trials in Akron, OH. They also have the opportunity to participate in several weekend training camps, and they get tough competition at the tournaments mentioned above. Speaking as a parent that had kids on the Schoolboy Dual Team, and would have had 2 kids on the Cadet Dual team last year had Wisconsin participated, I was glad the state did not send a team. Going through the grind of 4 days of dual meets may actually set some of these kids back with regards to their training as they prepare for Fargo. Besides, the state and families have a finite amount of money. I think what the WWF is doing now actually helps better develop our wrestlers and it certainly impacts a much greater number of kids. For what's it worth, I have noticed a few big names missing from the state rosters at Cadet Duals. Some of those wrestlers were in Akron two weeks ago. Don't get me wrong, the dual team experience is fantastic for all involved, but I have no issues with the state utilizing their resources elsewhere.
Dieringer came through that system.
The best team event I know of.
But yes, not a cheap event.
while we understand this new system may get more wrestlers to participate in FS/ G nationals. If cost is the major factor raise the fee for the duals.
"We did not get your son the matches necessary to be prepared for Fargo" was a quote used by one of the coaches last year. The wrestlers we know that are going to be in his weight class will be battling it out in Oklahoma in a cpl weeks and will have time to make adjustments prior to Fargo.
Speaking as a parent who has had a son on the schoolboy and cadet teams those matches can not be replicated going into Fargo!
Did you son wrestle at the UWW event in Akron?
Did your son wrestle in the northern Plains or Central Regionals?
This si where they are getting the matches for Fargo. They are also getting quality instruction over a longer period of time with the weekend training camps.
I understand that there is not one plan that fits for every kid but this system in my mind helps more kids. In a few more years we will see if this system has continued to grow and if the results are there. I am not sure of the lack of matches was from not participating or if there was no quality kids in your sons tournaments. I he had participated in the program last year he should have gotten matches that would have gotten him ready.
Quote from: SP on June 17, 2015, 07:56:29 PM
Did you son wrestle at the UWW event in Akron?
Did your son wrestle in the northern Plains or Central Regionals?
This si where they are getting the matches for Fargo. They are also getting quality instruction over a longer period of time with the weekend training camps.
I understand that there is not one plan that fits for every kid but this system in my mind helps more kids. In a few more years we will see if this system has continued to grow and if the results are there. I am not sure of the lack of matches was from not participating or if there was no quality kids in your sons tournaments. I he had participated in the program last year he should have gotten matches that would have gotten him ready.
Akron - no to old
NP - 4 matches(so in your opinion these matches will have him ready for Fargo?)
He gets quality instruction year round
Your definition of ready and ours may be vastly different.
We hope many WI wrestlers benefit from this new program we just wish there was still an option of the Duals. (even at an increased cost I bet that team would be full)
2011 AA in junior FS-6
2014 AA in junior FS-2
Looks like Oklahoma is bringing a junior dual team
that could challenge Illinois. Daton Fix showing up even though on Cadet World Team.
Oklahoma Team Members
100
Golowenski, Rhett
106
Naifeh, Mason
106
Adams, Wyatt
113
Copeland, Josh
120
Bridges, Montorie
120
Duffield, Dalton
120
Fix, Daton
126
Gfeller, Kaden
132
Karstetter, Cody
132
Brock, Kaid
138
Fllippo, Brik
138
Lewallen, Boo
145
Moran, Tristan
152
Sheets, Wyatt
160
Mayhue, Moses
160
Smith, Joe
170
Hansen, Hayden
182
Dieringer, Jordan
195
Hudson, Evan
195
Allen, Steven
220
Coats, Russell
220
Childers, Kyler
285
Walker, Korey
285
McGowan, Bryson
Akron - no to old
NP - 4 matches(so in your opinion these matches will have him ready for Fargo?)
He gets quality instruction year round
Your definition of ready and ours may be vastly different.
We hope many WI wrestlers benefit from this new program we just wish there was still an option of the Duals. (even at an increased cost I bet that team would be full)
2011 AA in junior FS-6
2014 AA in junior FS-2
What about the training camps and the tournaments in River Falls and Deforest? Did he attend these opportunities? No Central Regionals? Just asking.
I do not know you definition of ready either and I am not assuming to know like you are with mine.
The duals do serve a purpose and some kids can benefit from it. Overall, 21 matches is a lot for a kid in five days. Some kids win the majority and some can lose many and this is not healthy for most kids.
Illinois seems to be doing fine with it. Hard to argue either Jordans or 3wrestles points.....
Quote from: SP on June 20, 2015, 06:16:43 PM
Akron - no to old
NP - 4 matches(so in your opinion these matches will have him ready for Fargo?)
He gets quality instruction year round
Your definition of ready and ours may be vastly different.
We hope many WI wrestlers benefit from this new program we just wish there was still an option of the Duals. (even at an increased cost I bet that team would be full)
2011 AA in junior FS-6
2014 AA in junior FS-2
What about the training camps and the tournaments in River Falls and Deforest? Did he attend these opportunities? No Central Regionals? Just asking.
I do not know you definition of ready either and I am not assuming to know like you are with mine.
The duals do serve a purpose and some kids can benefit from it. Overall, 21 matches is a lot for a kid in five days. Some kids win the majority and some can lose many and this is not healthy for most kids.
Central plains and northern plains - same weekend
Training camps- no as he would miss club practice.
Duals - the match count is no longer at 10 or so per style. So the 21 match count grind is not a factor. There were also many weight classes that had 2 wrestlers per weight class.
The same kids he wrestled at SB duals, Cadet Duals and we now watch at Junior duals are many of the same kids we see ranked , committing to college scholarships ect. We have a couple of friends kids in the process of recruiting and many of those coaches have said they will see them in OK. and then again in Fargo.
The new set up for the Fargo camp with one in June and a shortened camp before they leave for Fargo is better.
We have out of state friends ask about the new WI training program and they are impressed with the training opportunities BUT most of the time it comes back to to bad they don't do the duals too.
Skipping the national duals has resulted in less success at Fargo, not more.
Akron - no to old
NP - 4 matches(so in your opinion these matches will have him ready for Fargo?)
He gets quality instruction year round
Your definition of ready and ours may be vastly different.
We hope many WI wrestlers benefit from this new program we just wish there was still an option of the Duals. (even at an increased cost I bet that team would be full)
2011 AA in junior FS-6
2014 AA in junior FS-2
[/quote]
**************
I am assuming the complaint about not getting in the needed number of matches to be prepared for Fargo was in regard to the 2014 Fargo tournament. If I am correct in that assumption, then the opportunity to prepare by getting in the needed matches was there.
First of all, Fila/UWW Cadet World Team Trials is a three year age group, therefore it was birth years '97, '98, and '99 last year (and 98, 99, 00 this year). Unless a kid was born in 1996 they could have competed. Also, Junior Northern Plains and Central Regional Jrs. were not on the same weekend last year. So, more matches again were available.
However, this year, with the two regional tournaments on the same weekend, if you were born on or after 1997, that does indeed only leave Northern Plains. Perhaps 4 matches (with hopefully 2 of them being tough) at Northern Plains would not be enough. Therefore, for those born in 1997 and older, that need more matches to prepare for this year's National Tournament in Fargo you could have gone to Las Vegas and wrestled in the UWW Jr. Nationals, and then the Jr. World Team Trials final which took place last week in Madison. I do concede those tournaments would have been entirely paid for on your own dime.
The part I may be missing is, if someone needed 12+ matches to be prepared for last year's Fargo tournament, how would the 12+ matches (provided you keep winning) from the tournaments I sited above not suffice? Unless there are wrestlers that specifically need those matches to take place in succession during one extended weekend. For that need, yes, only the Team Duals would suffice.
If someone wants to lament that they miss the duals and wishes the WWF had not cut them because of the value they bring, so be it. However, complaining needed matches aren't available is hard for me to believe.
It is not an issue of finding matches, it is the quality of valuable matches you can get in a short period of time prior to Fargo at a very reasonable cost. Win or lose those matches can not be replicated.
In our experience the duals followed by both styles at Fargo were challenging but rewarding.
Believe it or not but if you ask our son what is missing in his preparation for Fargo he will tell you he NEEDS those matches.
This will be trip#4 to Fargo
I think that if politics gets in the way of wrestling, then yes there is a problem.
I feel it is to bad that Wisconsin couldnt do the duals this year for whatever reason.
In his Junior year Jesse was training somewhere (I think at the OTC) during the duals. He joined the team only for Greco and of course demolished everyone. Team won the National title that year. Jesse did not wrestle the freestyle portion of the tourney. Also amazing to see the talent when you see the likes of some of our in state monsters taking losses. Rare but true.
I also believe that WI should have a team in the duals. It doesn't matter if everyone doesn't get the opportunity. This is intended to be for the best of the best to get better yet. You earn your way onto the National team. Some can't go due to various reasons so to fill the team the coaches need to find competitive alternates. Everyone can't be chosen but anyone not chosen can wrestle the other tourneys noted (northern plains, Fargo, Flo Nationals, etc.).
Kids should feel honored to get the opportunity to wrestle for their state, just like Olympians feel honored to represent their country. The team aspect at Fargo just isn't the same as the duals.
I like that WI is thinking outside the box and trying different things to increase our presence in Freestyle and Greco, keeping in mind the financial impact summer wrestling has on families.
Wisconsin put some great teams together and even won a national title at the Junior national duals.
Now, we do not even send a team. Wisconsin needs new leadership
if the leaders honestly decided that not attending the greatest dual meet
in the United States is a good idea. Raise the money and send
at least the junior freestyle team. I am glad Wisconsin still had a team
when Dieringer went through high school. Now Wisconsin is falling apart.
Check out this. Dalton Fix is on the cadet world team, and he still attended.
Junior National Duals - Freestyle (06/23 - 06/27/2015)
120 - Daton Fix (Oklahoma) over David Salazar (Arizona) TF 10-0
120 - Daton Fix (Oklahoma) over Tanner Rohweder (Iowa 1) TF 10-0
120 - Daton Fix (Oklahoma) over Brent Jones (Minnesota 1) TF 10-0
120 - Daton Fix (Oklahoma) over Travis Piotrowski (Illinois) TF 10-0
120 - Daton Fix (Oklahoma) over Matt Amy (Pennsylvania) TF 10-0
120 - Daton Fix (Oklahoma) over Logan Griffin (Michigan 1) TF 11-0
Quote from: 3wrestle on June 21, 2015, 10:55:12 PM
It is not an issue of finding matches, it is the quality of valuable matches you can get in a short period of time prior to Fargo at a very reasonable cost. Win or lose those matches can not be replicated.
In our experience the duals followed by both styles at Fargo were challenging but rewarding.
Believe it or not but if you ask our son what is missing in his preparation for Fargo he will tell you he NEEDS those matches.
This will be trip#4 to Fargo
Well without the matches your boy did pretty good!!!!!! Man-o-man!!!!!
Quote from: littleguy301 on July 28, 2015, 09:54:40 PM
Quote from: 3wrestle on June 21, 2015, 10:55:12 PM
It is not an issue of finding matches, it is the quality of valuable matches you can get in a short period of time prior to Fargo at a very reasonable cost. Win or lose those matches can not be replicated.
In our experience the duals followed by both styles at Fargo were challenging but rewarding.
Believe it or not but if you ask our son what is missing in his preparation for Fargo he will tell you he NEEDS those matches.
This will be trip#4 to Fargo
Well without the matches your boy did pretty good!!!!!! Man-o-man!!!!!
Could of been better :) Just listened to him talk to a parent at the camp he is helping at and his exact words were had I wrestled them before I would of had a different game plan.
Quote from: 3wrestle on July 28, 2015, 11:18:39 PM
Quote from: littleguy301 on July 28, 2015, 09:54:40 PM
Quote from: 3wrestle on June 21, 2015, 10:55:12 PM
It is not an issue of finding matches, it is the quality of valuable matches you can get in a short period of time prior to Fargo at a very reasonable cost. Win or lose those matches can not be replicated.
In our experience the duals followed by both styles at Fargo were challenging but rewarding.
Believe it or not but if you ask our son what is missing in his preparation for Fargo he will tell you he NEEDS those matches.
This will be trip#4 to Fargo
Well without the matches your boy did pretty good!!!!!! Man-o-man!!!!!
Could of been better :) Just listened to him talk to a parent at the camp he is helping at and his exact words were had I wrestled them before I would of had a different game plan.
Could have been better for the other wrestler also. We need to listen to the wrestlers. Decisions to go to the new program was investigated thoroughly by many people with input from the wrestlers themselves. There was a sign I saw at a baseball field that says it all...."Before you complain....Have you volunteered yet"
Quote from: kneeslide on July 29, 2015, 07:00:52 AM
Quote from: 3wrestle on July 28, 2015, 11:18:39 PM
Quote from: littleguy301 on July 28, 2015, 09:54:40 PM
Quote from: 3wrestle on June 21, 2015, 10:55:12 PM
It is not an issue of finding matches, it is the quality of valuable matches you can get in a short period of time prior to Fargo at a very reasonable cost. Win or lose those matches can not be replicated.
In our experience the duals followed by both styles at Fargo were challenging but rewarding.
Believe it or not but if you ask our son what is missing in his preparation for Fargo he will tell you he NEEDS those matches.
This will be trip#4 to Fargo
Well without the matches your boy did pretty good!!!!!! Man-o-man!!!!!
Could of been better :) Just listened to him talk to a parent at the camp he is helping at and his exact words were had I wrestled them before I would of had a different game plan.
Could have been better for the other wrestler also. We need to listen to the wrestlers. Decisions to go to the new program was investigated thoroughly by many people with input from the wrestlers themselves. There was a sign I saw at a baseball field that says it all...."Before you complain....Have you volunteered yet"
Our son was never asked for input- would love to know who was surveyed.... Our opinion will not change on the duals. Duals gives some of our states wrestlers opportunities to wrestle some of the best wrestlers in the country and in turn get noticed/ ranked ect... Make adjustments going into Fargo.... Volunteering- yep plenty
If participation is the goal then I would say we are succeeding.
More tough matches may be key for some, but certainly not all. These current World team members did not participate in Fargo (and all but a couple did not do the duals either).
Gavin Teasdale
Yianni Diakomilhalis
Jarod Veerkleeren
Berge (Duals, but not Fargo--a wash)
Embree
Seely
Steveson did fargo, but not the duals
If more tough matches was the key, would there be as many World Team members opting out of the duals and/or Fargo?
BTW, UWW Jr. Nationals and UWW Junior World Team Trials were available to anyone too old for the 1998 birth year limit at Cadet WTT.
For anyone wishing WI still did the Cadet or Jr. Duals for the fun, experience, team camaraderie, and yes matches, I understand the value of them and the lifelong experience and memories. I personally do not think those added matches are as important as others do, to prepare for Fargo, especially since there are still plenty of very tough tournaments available to our UWW Cadets and UWW Jrs.
The decision not to have Wisconsin represented in the duals is a disappointing one. If you need money actively seek sponsors. There are Wisconsin based businesses out there willing to help. Harley Davidson, culvers, menards are 3 that come to mind right away.
Or maybe the WWF wants to run some big tournaments to make money. People love a well organized 5 man or 8 man bracket tournaments. Open it up to 1000 kids with half the ages wrestling on Saturday and the other half on Sunday. With a price tag of $25 per entrant you bring in revenue of 25k. Run concessions and you're looking at even more money. Pay your expenses and you should have some money left over. Probably enough to pay for the duals.
Partner with a local wrestling club to get mats and volunteers and cut them in on a little profit. It seems like a good way to go.