Participation numbers

[dforsythe]

I was curious to see the participation numbers around the state at Regionals. Mainly because I was impressed by the number of full teams at our regional. I know this is only one snapshot of the season but I find the numbers interesting.  The Coleman regional is a little skewed because 7 teams were assigned to the regional, but only 5 had entries. Here is a link to the spreadsheet.  https://bit.ly/2Ds1v3F

[ramjet]

The D3 regionals in NE Wisconsin need a cleanup as Crandon Regional only had one 195# many of the other weight classes only had two wrestlers. It's unfortunate but declining enrollment and many kids do no sports or they like basketball more some of them telling me it's "easier"....

Thank goodness for open enrollment so those really interested have options.

Recruitment and youth programs run correctly build programs, school AD and community involvement and buy in is also paramount.

[wrastle63]

The D3 regionals in NE Wisconsin need a cleanup as Crandon Regional only had one 195# many of the other weight classes only had two wrestlers. It's unfortunate but declining enrollment and many kids do no sports or they like basketball more some of them telling me it's "easier"....

Thank goodness for open enrollment so those really interested have options.

Recruitment and youth programs run correctly build programs, school AD and community involvement and buy in is also paramount.

Two words....SUPER REGIONAL. Solves that whole issue of Valders regional and Crandon regional.

[ECN]

Too many weight classes.  School with enrollments under 200, don't have 5 kids who weigh 170, 182, 195, 220, and 285.    Open enrollment only seems to hurt, as it is used to create super-teams. Taking away from other programs.  Creating a quality program requires at least 5 dedicated people that have time.  This is a rarity in small communities.  Super regional, been hearing that for a while, and I love the idea. 

[switch_it]

Open enrollment is definitely a double-edge sword.  I agree with ECN.  Some of these schools who lose high quality wrestlers are losing someone who you can help build or sustain a program around.  Along with that, it is a small part of the reason we see some of the same teams winning over and over again. 

The answer to the Crandon Regional has been obvious for years but never changed.  Move Coleman to that one and one team from the south to the current Coleman regional.  This would make Team Sectionals more balanced and would provide some better brackets at the entire Bonduel Individual Sectional. 

[bigoil]

The D3 regionals in NE Wisconsin need a cleanup as Crandon Regional only had one 195# many of the other weight classes only had two wrestlers. It's unfortunate but declining enrollment and many kids do no sports or they like basketball more some of them telling me it's "easier"....

Thank goodness for open enrollment so those really interested have options.

Recruitment and youth programs run correctly build programs, school AD and community involvement and buy in is also paramount.

Two words....SUPER REGIONAL. Solves that whole issue of Valders regional and Crandon regional.

This seems like the most obvious solution. I'm not sure why it was decided we'd have 3 levels of competition to crown a state champ, but it feels like two would suffice.

Let's think aloud about the numbers a bit, though. This season in D2 & D3, there are 105 and 106 programs, respectively. If you just sliced them up into four(?) sectionals, you'd have to accommodate for 26-27 man brackets. That would lay onto a 32-man chassis, not unlike the NCAA tournament. That means that if you didn't get a bye first round, you'd have 5 matches alone to win the thing. If you fell into the back-side, many more.

I do not know the rules for number of matches in a day, but that has to present a problem.

What that would mean is wrestling sectionals over two days OR wrestling part of the tourney one weekend and part the next. Either way, you'd have to divide the tourney up into two parts. Maybe the last wrestling in the consolation bracket is the blood round (round of 12)? On the front side then, you'd wrestle through quarters, as the quarterfinal losers fall into the blood round on the back. To get through the blood round, the most matches you could have is 5, while it would be 2-3 wins on the front to make the semis, depending on whether you byed your first round.

I agree that it's pointless to have such sparse regionals and somewhat unfair to have the tough ones (Lancaster!), so making straight-to-sectionals seems worth it, even if there are some logistical hurdles.

One plan would be to do a Friday night, Saturday to alleviate the five match maximum. The open Saturday would now be for Team duals. There would be no Tuesday night duals.

[shouldvewrestled]

The D3 regionals in NE Wisconsin need a cleanup as Crandon Regional only had one 195# many of the other weight classes only had two wrestlers. It's unfortunate but declining enrollment and many kids do no sports or they like basketball more some of them telling me it's "easier"....

Thank goodness for open enrollment so those really interested have options.

Recruitment and youth programs run correctly build programs, school AD and community involvement and buy in is also paramount.

Two words....SUPER REGIONAL. Solves that whole issue of Valders regional and Crandon regional.

I guess what you're talking about is just 8 regionals feeding into 4 sectionals (instead of 16 -> 4), much like Division 1 has 16 regionals converging into 8 sectionals. That makes fine sense too, though having a 16-man bracket, wrestling back to 2nd place, I wonder if that pushes the "matches in one day" rule.

Yeah you're correct Luke, if full to fullish(13+ kids) 16 man brackets it would have to be a 2 day event for true wrestleback to 2nd as it would have possibility of 6 or 7 matches for kids.

Could take out a match if run it like D2/D3 sectionals now with no true double elimination.

[bigoil]

The D3 regionals in NE Wisconsin need a cleanup as Crandon Regional only had one 195# many of the other weight classes only had two wrestlers. It's unfortunate but declining enrollment and many kids do no sports or they like basketball more some of them telling me it's "easier"....

Thank goodness for open enrollment so those really interested have options.

Recruitment and youth programs run correctly build programs, school AD and community involvement and buy in is also paramount.

Two words....SUPER REGIONAL. Solves that whole issue of Valders regional and Crandon regional.

I guess what you're talking about is just 8 regionals feeding into 4 sectionals (instead of 16 -> 4), much like Division 1 has 16 regionals converging into 8 sectionals. That makes fine sense too, though having a 16-man bracket, wrestling back to 2nd place, I wonder if that pushes the "matches in one day" rule.

Yeah you're correct Luke, if full to fullish(13+ kids) 16 man brackets it would have to be a 2 day event for true wrestleback to 2nd as it would have possibility of 6 or 7 matches for kids.

if  you did "super regional" you would take 4 guys to sectionals, don't think you would need a WB to 2nd.

[LKing]

I believe I crunched the numbers Saturday and Crandon Regional had only 39 participants.   That's out of a total possible of 112. 

[GradeTough]

I believe I crunched the numbers Saturday and Crandon Regional had only 39 participants.   That's out of a total possible of 112. 

That is terrible and actually not worth going to see. I like the idea of Super Regionals.

[Ghetto]

I promise to drop this bomb on the forum after team state and propose my 12 weight solution once again. We can then beat this horse into mutilation.

[panther93]

After talking to coaches and fans this past Saturday I believe we have a major problem on our hands in D2 and D3.  For the most part, these 6 team regionals are junk.  Too often there is not enough wrestlers to fill our the weights and we get stuck with an inferior product. This is bad for the sport and the entertainment value for the fans suffers.  This does nothing to promote our sport.

I really think that the coaches and the schools need to push the WIAA to consider a SUPER-REGIONAL.  Bring two regionals together and wrestle them in a 16 man bracket.  The top four wrestlers would move on to the sectionals and the top two teams in each region would move on to the team sectional with 1 vs. 2 in the first round.  This would also help with our referee situation, or lack there of. 

I see stacked regionals where a third place kid stays home, yet would have a legitimate shot at going to state.  This would do away with that.  This would send the true top kids to the sectional and let them battle it out.  As for the team race, we would then get a battle of the top four tournament teams in a true dual setting.  This would reward a team that may lose out by a couple of points in a tournament setting the ability to show what they have  in a dual setting.  Team depth and coaching decisions will come into play and a true dual champ can emerge.

Also, I'd move the weights to 11 classes for duals (easier for ties) and if needed 13 for individual tournaments. 

Just my 2 cents after 21 years of coaching

[DocWrestling]

Don't let the WIAA fool you that they care about geography and let them use it as an excuse.  That box has been opened.
I think the wrestlers and such would love a mix-up in geography for a chance to wrestle new opponents in new places.  I would love it if the WIAA really mixed up the geography across regions.  Other sports do it.

Here are the girls playoff brackets.
http://halftime.wiaawi.org/CustomApps/Tournaments/Brackets/HTML/2019_Basketball_Girls_Div1_Sec1_2.html

These teams are traveling for one game in one round of tournament
D1 Sectional 1-
Has teams from Superior to Oshkosh in one sectional- Thus first round games like Hudson @ Appleton West, Oshkosh West @ Chippewa Falls, and Eau Claire Memorial @ Oshkosh North
D1 Sectional 2-
Covers from Green Bay to Oconomowoc- Green Bay East has to travel to Menomonee Falls on a school night- 122 miles-  I bet the kids will think this is fun.  At least until Wednesday morning.    If Green Bay East wins they get to go to Arrowhead for 2nd round

[DocWrestling]

I think we can have 11 weight classes for duals.  Allow tournaments to then choose... Do they want to use the 11 weight classes or do they want to use the present 14 weight classes?  Gives options for coaches and teams and where the go.

I would keep the state tournament series at 14 weight classes.  There is nothing wrong there.

Duals are the problem.

Would it be illegal for a HS tournament to run a dual tournament next year with their own 11 weight classes?  Can a tournament arbitrarily offer another option that coaches might choose?

[Tims]

Indiana only has 1 class for wrestling.  Population is similar to Wisconsin's.