Divisions

[TitanWrestling]

Doc,

I would like you to add up all the enrollment of the Milwaukee, Madison, and Green Bay schools and then come back to me with their percentages of their wrestlers to students. How about state place winners? I put the list of the top 45 enrollments right below this. Prairie du Chien which lost in the D-2 Semi-finals (school population of about 330) beat two of the top four seeded D-1 teams this year in duals. I would put Luxemberg Casco (school population of 648) ahead of any team in the state. Fenimore (246) and Coleman (225) is right there as well. My point is that you want to compare population sizes in a sport that has small teams constantly beating the larger population teams. That doesn't work. Take a look at the Wisconsin Dells team tournament that included many D-1 teams like Muskego. The top three teams, Iowa/Grant, Prairie and Freedom. Your point I think was valid in the 1980's when Madison and other areas had strong wrestling.I think your top D-2 and D-3 schools beat all but Kaukauna in D-1. Add to that now D-1 takes the top team out of 16 and D-2 and D-3 take the top team out of 27 to state. I think Iowa/Grant and Aquinas beat almost all the teams that made it to D-1 state and they didn't even make it out of team sectionals. That doesn't sound like the greatest idea to me. 

Green Bay West/Southwest/East   3115
Milwaukee Bradley Tech/Carmen South/Milwaukee Arts/Milwaukee Juneau   2614
Racine Park/Racine Horlick   2462
middleton   2388
Milwaukee Bay View/Lifelong Learning/South   2294
ken indian trail   2289
Milwaukee Riverside/Golda Meir   2267
Green Bay Preble   2251
mad west   2193
Oak Creek   2177
Milwaukee Washington/Dr.Howard Fuller Collegiate/Milwaukee Languages/Obama SCTE   2154
st. point   2083
Wauwatosa West/Eas   2062
arrowhead   2037
madison memorial   2031
neenah   1977
bay port   1952
Milwaukee Hamilton/Audubon   1946
Monona Grove/McFarland   1926
kenosha tremper   1922
fondy   1913
Kenosha Bradford   1887
Milwaukee Pulaski/Carmen SE   1853
Racine Case   1849
DC everest   1830
Cudahy/Saint Francis/Saint Thomas More   1802
verona   1794
marquette   1786
Whitnall/Greendale   1765
hudson   1732
lacrosse central/logan   1725
appleton north   1720
Brown Deer/Messmer/Shorewood   1698
eau claire north   1697
eau claire memorial   1666
sheboygan north   1662
Oshkosh West   1652
muskego   1648
madison east   1644
madison lafollett   1635
janesville craig   1632
Oconomowoc   1628
Milwaukee Vincent/Madison   1624
franklin   1606
appleton west   1602

[DocWrestling]

Your point is certainly valid that inner city wrestling is below average in Wisconsin.  It is quite impressive what these smaller enrollment teams have and can accomplish but again everything you brought up was team wise and less about individuals.

Taking out the inner city schools does help lessen the disparity between D1 and D2 but it is still quite large.

[TitanWrestling]

Ok Doc,

I will keep playing along as I like a healthy debate. Your 183,031 students on 128 teams have an average enrollment of 1,429.9 students per school.Of those 128 teams only 33 had full line-ups at regionals. In fact if you average those 33 teams across 16 regionals you get 2.065 full teams per regional. The most full teams a regional had was 4 and there were two D-1 regional with no full teams.   One regional had an enrollment of 10,063 students and had 59 wrestlers in it. I honestly just don't see your point holding up here. We had 3 full teams in our regional and 133 wrestlers. I am glad we both again take 4 wrestlers per weight class to sectionals. In fact, I would like to challenge you to find a D-1 regional with 133 wrestlers in it. 

[rankwizard]

I think the current system works for divisions with the amount of teams. if you go to equal rep, you need to go to 16 to state per division. lots of hoops to jump through and logistics.

Slightly different topic, could Fennimore go up to D1 if they win D2 next year? or is not possible to go from D3 to D2 to D1

[Numbers]

My guess is the only way to go to even divisions with 16 each division to state is to drop from 14 to 12 weight classes.

[rankwizard]

 I believe a couple of the teams that are due to change divisions are filing the appeal to stay in their current respective division. How likely are they to succeed?

[dforsythe]

I believe a couple of the teams that are due to change divisions are filing the appeal to stay in their current respective division. How likely are they to succeed?

Based on cross country, not very likely.

[Scramble_king]

My guess is the only way to go to even divisions with 16 each division to state is to drop from 14 to 12 weight classes.

Well they lied to us when they said there wasn't enough room for boys to have 16 in each division at state, and then added girls. The WIAA will do whatever they want.

[rankwizard]

I believe a couple of the teams that are due to change divisions are filing the appeal to stay in their current respective division. How likely are they to succeed?

Based on cross country, not very likely.

Seems about right.

Do you or anyone have an opinion of what would happen if you take the WIAA to court on it?

[hutgoose]

Should all large city schools be moved to D3 then? Competitive balance.

Your point is certainly valid that inner city wrestling is below average in Wisconsin.  It is quite impressive what these smaller enrollment teams have and can accomplish but again everything you brought up was team wise and less about individuals.

Taking out the inner city schools does help lessen the disparity between D1 and D2 but it is still quite large.

[rankwizard]

At the high school level, I think it is appropriate for each division to have a good mixture of competitive teams and less competitive teams. Same with the individuals.

[Info77]

D-3 will be just fine.  Fennimore gone leaves a void but Iowa Grant, Aquinas and Weyawauga-Fremont are all good enough to go far, even be champions, in D2.

[littleguy301]

My guess is the only way to go to even divisions with 16 each division to state is to drop from 14 to 12 weight classes.

Well they lied to us when they said there wasn't enough room for boys to have 16 in each division at state, and then added girls. The WIAA will do whatever they want.

Yes they did!

3 division for boys equal size like 112 schools per division, 16 person brackets and double elimation. If you look at the time frame not an issue to do so since we went to 8 mats. By the way I remember being told the kohl's couldn't fit 8 mats at one time. Strange how that works!

[littleguy301]

I believe St. Croix falls will now move up a division as well.

I heard no they have already moves up from d3 to d2 last year.

I don't think last years move will matter.  It is the division that you are in when the points are applied.  As an example Prairie du Chen moves down for next season due to enrollment, but due to their point total will remain in DII, I believe.
Based on what I have seen SCF will move up. '22 State entrant (2pts) '23 Sectional finals (1pt) '24 State finals (3pts)  I could be wrong as this is new to everyone, but that is the way I read the WIAA rules.

From my understanding is the points need to be from the direct division below the one you will be moved to. Getting points in D3 and combining them with D2 will not make them move upnto D1. Though if SCF next year does the same as this year now those combined D2 points will be in effect. Though that I my take on the rule.

[hornbuckleb]

Could be wrong and doubt it would ever get passed, but I have heard 1 division individual tournament is in the works to be proposed