No more waiting!!!

[DocWrestling]

Michigan still uses the old weights.  They still have 103

[Handles II]

I am growing so board with this pointless topic. Can anyone tell me a sport that we do differently then the rest of the nation. Do we play baseball with 8 players? Do we count dunks in basketball 3 points because we are shorter in WI?
I could support dropping a weight if the entire nation does it, if not let's fix our local issues and find ways to be more competitive.

Having fewer than 65% of the teams able to fill 14 weights IS a local issue. But it certainly isn't a Wisconsin-only problem.

Iowa, Districts, 3A (big schools), 62 teams, number of wrestlers:
14 weights - 21 teams  
13 weights- 16 teams
12 weights- 8 teams
11 weights- 7 teams
10 weights- 4 teams
9 weights-1 team
8 weights- 2 teams
7 weights- 1 team
6 weights - 1 team   Total in Iowa 3A - 37 teams (59%) filled 14 or 13 weights, 25 teams (41%) did not


Iowa, Districts, 2a (middle), 103 teams

14 weights - 3 teams
13 weights - 9 teams
12 weights - 0 teams
10 weights - 6 teams
9  weights - 4 teams
8 weights -  5 teams
7 weights - 6 teams
6 weights - 8 teams
5 weights - 5 teams
4 weights - 12 teams
3 weights - 15 teams
2 weights - 9 teams
1 weight - 7 teams      Teams that could filled 14 or 13 weight classes 12 teams (11%) teams that could fill 12 or fewer weights 91 (89%)

This is IOWA!! - The 2A schools had 11 or 12 teams per district (8 districts in the state) the majority of brackets to GO TO STATE were 4 man brackets with BYES!

1. Youth wrestling, the way we currently do it, the things we allow to continue even though they hurt the sport and we see kids quitting because of these thigs have to change.
2. It's apparent that even in IOWA 14 weight classes is far too many, and that the state of wrestling is hurting badly even in THE wrestling STATE.

[Handles II]

Iowa 1a (small schools) Districts 129 schools

14 weights - 0 teams
13 weights - 0 teams
12 weights - 0 teams
11 weights - 2 teams
10 weights - 0 teams
9 weights - 3 teams
8 weights - 4 teams
7 weights -7 teams
6 weights- 10 teams
5 weights - 14 teams
4 weights -21 teams
3 weights -11 teams
2 weights - 19 teams
1 weight -17 teams       Teams that filled 13 or 14 weights - ZERO!!!!

This is depressing!

[Ghetto]

Iowa 1a (small schools) Districts 129 schools

14 weights - 0 teams
13 weights - 0 teams
12 weights - 0 teams
11 weights - 2 teams
10 weights - 0 teams
9 weights - 3 teams
8 weights - 4 teams
7 weights -7 teams
6 weights- 10 teams
5 weights - 14 teams
4 weights -21 teams
3 weights -11 teams
2 weights - 19 teams
1 weight -17 teams       Teams that filled 13 or 14 weights - ZERO!!!!

This is depressing!

Where did you find this information?

[Handles II]

Trackwrestling. I took your idea. I'll do MN next. My lunch break is coming up.

[Handles II]

MN Numbers:

AAA (Big Schools) - 70 teams
14 weights - 31 teams
13 weights - 10 teams
12 weights - 4 teams
11 weights - 8 teams
10 weights - 5 teams
9 weights - 5 teams
8 weights - 1 team
7 weights - 1 team
6 weights - 1 team
5 weights - 1 team   Team that filled 13 or 14 weights - 41 teams (58%)  

AA (Middle) 104 teams
14 weights - 28 teams
13 weights - 12 teams
12 weights - 18 teams
11 weights - 8 teams
10 weights - 4 teams
9 weights - 5 teams
8 weights - 4 team
7 weights - 2 team
6 weights - 4 team
5 weights - 2 team  Teams that filled 13 or 14 weight classes - 40 (38%)

A (Small Schools) 84 teams
14 weights - 16 teams
13 weights - 13 teams
12 weights - 12 teams
11 weights - 7 teams
10 weights - 7 teams
9 weights - 5 teams
8 weights - 10 team
7 weights - 2 team
6 weights - 3 team
5 weights - 0 teams
4 weights - 1 team
3 weights - 2 teams
2 weights - 0 teams
1 weight - 1 team      Teams that filled 13 or 14 weight classes - 29 (34.5%)


So... Three Midwest states, all with "strong" wrestling. None of the three states in ANY division can fill all 14 OR 13 weight classes at a level higher than 60% and in most cases it's well below 50% of the teams that can achieve the goal of filling all 14 weights.
Does anyone still think that 14 weights is needed?
Can somebody affiliated PLEASE take this information to the NFHS wrestling board?

Yes, we most certainly have work to do at a grassroots level to redefine and reinvent our sport, but probably the most important is to focus on RETENTION of youth wrestlers. However, if IA,MN,and WI combined have only 50% of schools able to fill 14 weights, then simply put, there are too many weights.  I for one really didn't think this way until fairly recently, but now, looking at the actual numbers, to think anything different is just plain wrong.

[chuckref]

In order for things to change, it has to come through the coaches to that state and then from there it goes to the NFHS.  I think its too bad that it can't go straight to the NFHS but I understand why.    Come on coaches, get it going.  If Wisconsin starts it maybe it would go somewhere. 

Chuck

[DocWrestling]

Thanks for taking the time to do that.  It makes a pretty big statement.  It seems like only the huge high schools that Illinois has and California, etc are able to really fill 14.  

And at the same time you have to tip your hat big time to the small successful D3 schools that are doing it with the numbers they have.

[DocWrestling]

In order for things to change, it has to come through the coaches to that state and then from there it goes to the NFHS.  I think its too bad that it can't go straight to the NFHS but I understand why.    Come on coaches, get it going.  If Wisconsin starts it maybe it would go somewhere. 

Chuck

If Michigan is still using the old weights then I would think some great coaches association leadership with a consensus should be able to get the WIAA to listen and make changes without the NFHS! 

[Handles II]

Thanks for taking the time to do that.  It makes a pretty big statement.  It seems like only the huge high schools that Illinois has and California, etc are able to really fill 14.  

And at the same time you have to tip your hat big time to the small successful D3 schools that are doing it with the numbers they have.

Thanks, but thank Ghetto because he's the guy that started all of this.I'm glad I did it with our neighbor states. I hope others are too.   I believe we all needed to see some REAL numbers (I think some might not like to see the real numbers). I know that  there were some injured kids, or kids with skin stuff that couldn't wrestle. We all should acknowledge that. However, it still wouldn't have brought the numbers of teams with 14 up to 50%. Still, that shows a need for fewer weight classes if even with injured and illness kids included, the strongest section in the state can't get everyone to at least 13 wrestlers.  And IOWA??? Holy crap! Those numbers are wow, really bad. And they don't even have hockey to contend with!!!

I'm not part of the WWCA, so who of you out there are going to take this bull by the horns and get something done? I'm contacting my representatives ASAP.

[bkraus]

What about other "hotbed" states like PA or NJ? 

[Handles II]

I'll maybe look into that. NJ has like 28 districts it appears (districts are like WI Regions, so the first step in qualifying) and I can't distinguish which are "big" or "small" schools   Not all of them are listed on track. It jumps from 1, 2, then up to 10-28 or something (I might be missing something there). EDIT - I figured it out... Will attempt to get it done on my lunch.

Interestingly looking on their state website, random drug testing for teams or individuals is in place for all sports, as is a 30 match limit for wrestling by the end of the regular season (1st weekend in Feb). They also don't start wrestling practice until after T-giving. Hmm...

[Handles II]

Ready??? New Jersey, one of the top states in the nation, legendary programs, a population of 9 million people in less than 9,000 square miles (wisconsin has 5.7 mil in 65,000 sq mi)

297 teams broken down into 32 districts with 8-11 teams per district (one district had 7 teams) and a single-class State Tournament.  Yes, doing this one sucked. But it's all for the love of the sport, right?

14 weights - 94 teams
13 weights - 56 teams
12 weights - 60 teams
11 weights - 24 teams
10 weights - 15 teams
9 weights - 20 teams
8 weights - 8 teams
7 weights - 6 teams
6 weights - 3 teams
5 weights - 1 teams
4 weights - 4 teams
3 weights - 1 team
2 weights - 2 teams
1 weight - 1 team      Teams that filled 13 or 14 weights - 150 (50.5%)  Teams that filled 12 or fewer weights 147 (49.5%)

Conclusion: We have too many weights. That is glaringly obvious. 12 seems about right but arguments for 11 or 10 could certainly be heard.
It was weird seeing teams like Don Bosco, Manwah, North Highlands, and Indian Hills, places that I've heard about and read about as "legendary" not having full brackets.  Two districts did have every team filling all 14 weights, and another that was only 14 and 13 weights but nothing less. So those three districts are probably swaying the results a bit, but no doubt strong programs. Certainly NJ's population density and wrestling reputation aids them, yet again, only 50% statewide filled 13 or 14 weights.  I'd say this information really does say more about the issue of 14 weights for a single high school team to fill than it does about the performance level of individual wrestlers. Try not to get those very different issues confused. 4 studs don't make a program, they don't appease the administration as a successful team.

[Ghetto]

Thank you for doing that research Handles. At least we know the problem isn't just here in Wisconsin.

[MNbadger]

" 4 studs don't make a program, they don't appease the administration as a successful team."



Then maybe the answer is to go AWAY from duals to appease the administration.  Just wrestle individual tournaments.