All the coaching bashing.....

[leg turk]

Would you BadgerJohn?

[Street Glide]

Start slow, end slow. All I know is Barry had had some of the best kids in his state come to his school and do Nothing. Let take for example Jesse Thielke and Alex Derienger. Coming out of high school both had been excellent recruits, both won just about everything you can win prior to college. You can see for yourself how things have shaken out for these two young men.



Could Derienger come close to be academically eligble for UW, no.  I think if some research is done the answer will be found.  Alex ended up at a terrific school for wrestling for him.  Congrats to his titles!  Was a perfect fit for him.

Don't make assumptions you don't know.  I'm not going to get into details....but yes Alex could have gotten in.  Infact he has done an outstanding job academically at OKi State.

Street Glide, I think you have fallen into an often repeated argument regarding Alex and his grades...truth of the matter is his grades were just fine and would not have been a problem getting admission into the UW.

This has been discussed several times on this forum and it keeps coming up...and those that say "grades" in relation to Alex really haven't listened to the input from family and community members that not only think, but truly know, better.

Again could not have continued the 4/5 year academic with wrestling grind.  The numbers would have been adjusted, summer school and Tudor reliance needed.  The advise he got was well taken and he obviously made the best choice.

[lizard king]

I don't mind revealing information, mine is just one example but I do have some different insight.  D1 and D3, in my case were a world apart.  Both very good schools and both strong wrestling programs. Both schools had some outstanding wrestlers no matter what division.  The difference for us was the focus.  My D3 son worked very hard at wrestling and school.  Social life was allowed but controlled.  The coach believed very much in coaching kids, making them better people, giving them opportunities greater than wrestling.  When they took a trip, there was often educational aspects and sight seeing involved.  team building was important.

My D1 son did not have most of this.  He lived wrestling every day all year.  They had several practices a day including individual work outs with coaches.  Social life was never excepted and the threat of losing your scholarship was held over you. Academics were hels very high but at the same time kids were encouraged to take a major that this was more achievable. They were told you could have, wrestling, good grades, or a social life, but not all three.  I would even say only one really well.  Growing as a person or teaching the kids things other than wrestling was not in the cards, winning was about it.

Keep in mind I am saying it is not this way everywhere, but the level of expectation I believe is many times much more intense, and not for all kids at the D1 level. I may pick the same schools again (probably not), but more than that I would really do my homework as a parent and make sure the program has what my son needs and wants much more than I did.

[Musky Hunter]

I don't mind revealing information, mine is just one example but I do have some different insight.  D1 and D3, in my case were a world apart.  Both very good schools and both strong wrestling programs. Both schools had some outstanding wrestlers no matter what division.  The difference for us was the focus.  My D3 son worked very hard at wrestling and school.  Social life was allowed but controlled.  The coach believed very much in coaching kids, making them better people, giving them opportunities greater than wrestling.  When they took a trip, there was often educational aspects and sight seeing involved.  team building was important.

My D1 son did not have most of this.  He lived wrestling every day all year.  They had several practices a day including individual work outs with coaches.  Social life was never excepted and the threat of losing your scholarship was held over you. Academics were hels very high but at the same time kids were encouraged to take a major that this was more achievable. They were told you could have, wrestling, good grades, or a social life, but not all three.  I would even say only one really well.  Growing as a person or teaching the kids things other than wrestling was not in the cards, winning was about it.

Keep in mind I am saying it is not this way everywhere, but the level of expectation I believe is many times much more intense, and not for all kids at the D1 level. I may pick the same schools again (probably not), but more than that I would really do my homework as a parent and make sure the program has what my son needs and wants much more than I did.

That is a great post.  Thanks for adding your insight. 

[Kevin Black]

How then do you evaluate how a coach is doing if not by the recruits they bring in?

This is a loaded question and there are several layers to the conversation.  To evaluate something is to assess that which is valued.  As individuals, we all have priorities and values.  Sometimes they don't align.  I'm not condoning or condemning either side of this conversation, however, it's apparent that the two camps differ in what they value most.  In the end, the only value system that matters regarding the direction of the University of Wisconsin's wrestling team is Barry Alvarez's and second to his is Barry Davis's.  No matter how much it's discussed here, productive or not, won't change that.

I don't think this conversation is as detrimental as I once thought.  It's not much different than Packers fans engaging in conversations about how Ted Thompson handles free agency or if Mike McCarthy should be making the calls on offense.  The dynamic that is different, though, is that this conversation is intensely sensitive and emotional for several involved because the wrestling community is small and intimate.

On a different note, my wife was a part of some very successful track and cross country teams in college.  They had a Hall of Fame coach who revolutionized women's sports at UW and women's mid-distance running in the US.  When Barry Alvarez became Athletic Director, he and the only women's track/cross country coach UW had ever had possessed a different set of "values."  It didn't take long for him to leave UW (forced out) and coach at another institution (and win a couple more NCAA titles).  In that scenario, the women's track/cross country programs have never been the same.

The point is, it's likely wasted energy to hope Barry Alvarez change his "values" regarding the wrestling program, just like it's wasted energy to hope the Packers turn to free agency to bolster their roster (while Ted Thompson is there).

[badgerjohn]

Would you BadgerJohn?

Not sure if the question is "would I share and answer what I asked?"

Don't / didn't have 2 sons wrestle in college.  If I did would I share? Yes.  But I would never say anything on here I that I wouldn't say face to face with the coaches and / or ADs of said programs. 

Do onto others as you would have them do onto you.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[badgerjohn]

I don't mind revealing information, mine is just one example but I do have some different insight.  D1 and D3, in my case were a world apart.  Both very good schools and both strong wrestling programs. Both schools had some outstanding wrestlers no matter what division.  The difference for us was the focus.  My D3 son worked very hard at wrestling and school.  Social life was allowed but controlled.  The coach believed very much in coaching kids, making them better people, giving them opportunities greater than wrestling.  When they took a trip, there was often educational aspects and sight seeing involved.  team building was important.

My D1 son did not have most of this.  He lived wrestling every day all year.  They had several practices a day including individual work outs with coaches.  Social life was never excepted and the threat of losing your scholarship was held over you. Academics were hels very high but at the same time kids were encouraged to take a major that this was more achievable. They were told you could have, wrestling, good grades, or a social life, but not all three.  I would even say only one really well.  Growing as a person or teaching the kids things other than wrestling was not in the cards, winning was about it.

Keep in mind I am saying it is not this way everywhere, but the level of expectation I believe is many times much more intense, and not for all kids at the D1 level. I may pick the same schools again (probably not), but more than that I would really do my homework as a parent and make sure the program has what my son needs and wants much more than I did.

Thank you!

[billymurphy]

I am fully aware that Barry Davis signed a long term contract and is here to stay a long time
regardless of how the team does.  For those of us who have followed the Badgers a long time
can tell you that the team Barry Davis will put on the mat next year will be one of the best teams
he has ever had.  There have been a lot of poor and mediocre teams, but this one will be potentially highly respectable.
For those that think the Badgers can beat Penn State, Iowa or Ohio State are not being realistic.
Recruiting in wrestling is critical to success.

[woody53]

Drew,
I was there for many of your matches in college (home meets).
I was there for the wrestle-offs your freshman year.
I take pride in knowing all the potential division I
level talent in Wisconsin every year and was surprised
when I did not instantly know your name when I saw the program.
I had to look up your prior history when I went home.
You were not exactly a blue chip guy.  The odds of you
making varsity with those credentials was not good, but you did.

As far as I am concerned you lived your dream.
You got a chance to compete against the very best guys
and you won some matches against Division I competition.
I am not sure what goal you set that you did not achieve,
but I never felt that you did not give 100 percent effort.
You actually exposed the Minnesota kids weakness I felt.
Naturally, if you were at Iowa Tom Brands would have
brought in a four time state champion to beat you out.
Barry tried to but failed to bring in somebody that could beat you out.

Not sure how I take this post. In some ways very disrespectful to Drew, yet you sugar coat a "Like" for him. The class that came in 2005 had some great talent. The two individuals that took it the farthest was Kyle Ruschell and Drew Hammen. Drew had very big dreams and he took it as far as he could. I have a lot of respect for him. More than most on this forum. He lived it. Recently !

[billymurphy]

I think what Drew did was quite remarkable.
Normally, only the blue chip guys get a
chance to wrestle for the Badgers.  Drew clearly
worked extremely hard and was a varsity guy for
an extended period of time.  How many guys that
never won a state title end up being a starter for
more than one season?  Not many.   Drew had to
beat out a state champion to keep his job, so
he earned his spot.  How many varsity guys on this
years team never won a state title?  None is my guess.

[Live2Pin]

Drew's tenacity and effort was second to none. Always one of my favorite guys to watch and cheer for !

[hammen]

I appreciate the kind words guys. I really feel all that hard work and effort every time I get out of bed in the morning.

[Musky Hunter]

Drew's tenacity and effort was second to none. Always one of my favorite guys to watch and cheer for !

I think I am seeing why he likes RT wrestle!!!

[jaguarwrestler]

I think what Drew did was quite remarkable.
Normally, only the blue chip guys get a
chance to wrestle for the Badgers.  Drew clearly
worked extremely hard and was a varsity guy for
an extended period of time.  How many guys that
never won a state title end up being a starter for
more than one season?  Not many.   Drew had to
beat out a state champion to keep his job, so
he earned his spot.  How many varsity guys on this
years team never won a state title?  None is my guess.

I think we have 4 or 5 wrestlers on the roster that have started (maybe not all this year) that have not won state.

[billymurphy]

I assume you are talking about the year the Badgers scored only 9 points in the Big Ten Tournament.
This most recent year the entire varsity roster was a state champion.