Wisconsin Wrestling Online

is anyone else sick and tired of the obvious recruiting that is happening by some of the top programs in the state.  Or, do we just shrug our shoulders and let it happen.  These programs have their top volunteers that go to kids tournaments or coach at the state level.  I would love to see how these programs do with their own kids.  I do not think this is good for the overall sport or programs in the state. 

Maybe it is not actually recruiting but the sheer fact that families are impressed by exactly what you just said.   They have volunteers that take the time to go watch youth wrestling.  That sounds like they are doing the right thing.  They have people helping out the program.  Something that needs to be copied.

Most of the programs you speak of sell themselves with their clubs, coaching staffs, and success.  Some teams have 2 coaches and some have 7.  Let people decide where they want to go.  Geography does not have to be a prison.

I agree it has negative consequences to sports but can never take away individual choice which is often in chasing further success.  Wrestling is probably the sport that it helps the most because having practice partners that push you is probably the factor that most accelerates wrestling success.

That is one way to look at it.  It is not legal however according to the WIAA.  It is recruiting. 

This flexibility in choice does benefit the athlete...and of course their over zealous parent.  It does not help that hard working coach, especially in small schools that are trying their best with what they have and want to play by the rules. 

Quote from: wrestler_73 on February 03, 2020, 01:29:33 PM
That is one way to look at it.  It is not legal however according to the WIAA.  It is recruiting. 

This flexibility in choice does benefit the athlete...and of course their over zealous parent.  It does not help that hard working coach, especially in small schools that are trying their best with what they have and want to play by the rules.

give me a break. maybe the coach isnt hard working and thats why they are going to a diff school.  lots of reasons out there.  should an athlete be stuck in a terrible program with a great program just down the road?  whine whine whine

Where does the WIAA have jurisdiction over youth sports? 

If a community is losing kids, people that live in that community need to look inward to solve their problem.  The problem isn't the communities that positively promote and run good programs.  Nor is the rules around open enrollment.  Stop complaining about recruiting and get involved more in your community

Quote from: wrestler_73 on February 03, 2020, 12:19:26 PM
is anyone else sick and tired of the obvious recruiting that is happening by some of the top programs in the state.  Or, do we just shrug our shoulders and let it happen.  These programs have their top volunteers that go to kids tournaments or coach at the state level.  I would love to see how these programs do with their own kids.  I do not think this is good for the overall sport or programs in the state.

Please be specific.  What programs do you think are cheating? 

Quote from: wrestler_73 on February 03, 2020, 01:29:33 PM
That is one way to look at it.  It is not legal however according to the WIAA.  It is recruiting. 

This flexibility in choice does benefit the athlete...and of course their over zealous parent.  It does not help that hard working coach, especially in small schools that are trying their best with what they have and want to play by the rules.

The green in your face shows a tremendous amount jealousy. You would rather cry and complain about successful programs than improve the programs around you. That's is on you not those programs are so jealous of.

I work in many wrestling rooms with varying degrees of success. I can unequivocally tell you they do not recruit. They do not have too. People choose to enroll their kids their that's a personal choice between them and their children.

This post is unfounded and disrespectful to some fantastic and excellent coaches and programs.

If little Johnny wants to win and get better he should start working harder than his opponent and do the extra work it takes to be high level wrestler.......period end of story.

I don't begrudge anyone from venting frustration when kids leave their home program that would have helped and maybe even helped turn around the program.  Once one leaves more usually follow in future and it can be hard to turn around.  No disagreement there.


But lets not call the people that have it going on cheaters.  I do not believe they are violating WIAA rules.  In the cases I know it is actually the kids that do the recruiting.  One kid tells another kid that they should go to this school where they are going.  Then the kid asks his parents and they discuss.  Some transfer out and many don't.  Everyone wants what they "think" is best for themselves and their child.

I do begrudge them. They are impugning good peoples reputations with no foundation in facts......just jealousy and they want somebody else to fix their issues...

You can't blame a kid if he wants to be better and comes from a poor program. But to say it's all done "legal' That's not true.  Lots of "lines crossed" on this thing. One (top) program right now has a kid on the team that was there as a Freshman a different school as a Sophomore now back there as a Junior. Doesn't live in either district (never has) I know of another (top) program that the family rented a house in the district but actually live 2 hours away. I also know of 1 (top program) that has 8 kids not from there district. It's happening all over it's just becoming more noticeable now because it has trickled down to D2 and D3 programs. In D1 you just transfer schools (for the most part) in D2 and D3 you go wrestle for a different town completely. I feel bad for the kids. 99.9% never wrestle after high school anyway and now they have missed out on the best part of there lives. Where is home? Where is school pride? Who do they hang out with in the summer when they don't live where they go to school? I believe someday the majority of those kids regret transferring.

Quote from: missinghome on February 03, 2020, 05:27:23 PM
You can't blame a kid if he wants to be better and comes from a poor program. But to say it's all done "legal' That's not true.  Lots of "lines crossed" on this thing. One (top) program right now has a kid on the team that was there as a Freshman a different school as a Sophomore now back there as a Junior. Doesn't live in either district (never has) I know of another (top) program that the family rented a house in the district but actually live 2 hours away. I also know of 1 (top program) that has 8 kids not from there district. It's happening all over it's just becoming more noticeable now because it has trickled down to D2 and D3 programs. In D1 you just transfer schools (for the most part) in D2 and D3 you go wrestle for a different town completely. I feel bad for the kids. 99.9% never wrestle after high school anyway and now they have missed out on the best part of there lives. Where is home? Where is school pride? Who do they hang out with in the summer when they don't live where they go to school? I believe someday the majority of those kids regret transferring.

As long as it is done by the book no one can complain! I agree if it's sketchy then it should be turned in, so instead of complaining turn them in if it upset's you. We all know the program with the kid that has been in and out of the same school but clearly no one cares.

Quote from: missinghome on February 03, 2020, 05:27:23 PM
You can't blame a kid if he wants to be better and comes from a poor program. But to say it's all done "legal' That's not true.  Lots of "lines crossed" on this thing. One (top) program right now has a kid on the team that was there as a Freshman a different school as a Sophomore now back there as a Junior. Doesn't live in either district (never has) I know of another (top) program that the family rented a house in the district but actually live 2 hours away. I also know of 1 (top program) that has 8 kids not from there district. It's happening all over it's just becoming more noticeable now because it has trickled down to D2 and D3 programs. In D1 you just transfer schools (for the most part) in D2 and D3 you go wrestle for a different town completely. I feel bad for the kids. 99.9% never wrestle after high school anyway and now they have missed out on the best part of there lives. Where is home? Where is school pride? Who do they hang out with in the summer when they don't live where they go to school? I believe someday the majority of those kids regret transferring.

Another jealous post with zero proof of anything... please stop.

Quote from: ramjet on February 03, 2020, 06:16:45 PM

Quote from: missinghome on February 03, 2020, 05:27:23 PM
You can't blame a kid if he wants to be better and comes from a poor program. But to say it's all done "legal' That's not true.  Lots of "lines crossed" on this thing. One (top) program right now has a kid on the team that was there as a Freshman a different school as a Sophomore now back there as a Junior. Doesn't live in either district (never has) I know of another (top) program that the family rented a house in the district but actually live 2 hours away. I also know of 1 (top program) that has 8 kids not from there district. It's happening all over it's just becoming more noticeable now because it has trickled down to D2 and D3 programs. In D1 you just transfer schools (for the most part) in D2 and D3 you go wrestle for a different town completely. I feel bad for the kids. 99.9% never wrestle after high school anyway and now they have missed out on the best part of there lives. Where is home? Where is school pride? Who do they hang out with in the summer when they don't live where they go to school? I believe someday the majority of those kids regret transferring.

Another jealous post with zero proof of anything... please stop.

There is 100% proof with this post.

Quote from: wrastle63 on February 03, 2020, 06:45:36 PM

Quote from: ramjet on February 03, 2020, 06:16:45 PM

Quote from: missinghome on February 03, 2020, 05:27:23 PM
You can't blame a kid if he wants to be better and comes from a poor program. But to say it's all done "legal' That's not true.  Lots of "lines crossed" on this thing. One (top) program right now has a kid on the team that was there as a Freshman a different school as a Sophomore now back there as a Junior. Doesn't live in either district (never has) I know of another (top) program that the family rented a house in the district but actually live 2 hours away. I also know of 1 (top program) that has 8 kids not from there district. It's happening all over it's just becoming more noticeable now because it has trickled down to D2 and D3 programs. In D1 you just transfer schools (for the most part) in D2 and D3 you go wrestle for a different town completely. I feel bad for the kids. 99.9% never wrestle after high school anyway and now they have missed out on the best part of there lives. Where is home? Where is school pride? Who do they hang out with in the summer when they don't live where they go to school? I believe someday the majority of those kids regret transferring.

Another jealous post with zero proof of anything... please stop.

There is 100% proof with this post.

School choice and open enrollment is legal in the State of Wisconsin and unless you have something other than innuendo it's not evidence. Recruitment letters from coaches that's evidence. Other wise it's cow dung. It a personal choice and family decision whatever the reason it's there business not yours not mine not the person who started this thread.

Quote from: ramjet on February 03, 2020, 07:17:29 PM

Quote from: wrastle63 on February 03, 2020, 06:45:36 PM

Quote from: ramjet on February 03, 2020, 06:16:45 PM

Quote from: missinghome on February 03, 2020, 05:27:23 PM
You can't blame a kid if he wants to be better and comes from a poor program. But to say it's all done "legal' That's not true.  Lots of "lines crossed" on this thing. One (top) program right now has a kid on the team that was there as a Freshman a different school as a Sophomore now back there as a Junior. Doesn't live in either district (never has) I know of another (top) program that the family rented a house in the district but actually live 2 hours away. I also know of 1 (top program) that has 8 kids not from there district. It's happening all over it's just becoming more noticeable now because it has trickled down to D2 and D3 programs. In D1 you just transfer schools (for the most part) in D2 and D3 you go wrestle for a different town completely. I feel bad for the kids. 99.9% never wrestle after high school anyway and now they have missed out on the best part of there lives. Where is home? Where is school pride? Who do they hang out with in the summer when they don't live where they go to school? I believe someday the majority of those kids regret transferring.

Another jealous post with zero proof of anything... please stop.

There is 100% proof with this post.

School choice and open enrollment is legal in the State of Wisconsin and unless you have something other than innuendo it's not evidence. Recruitment letters from coaches that's evidence. Other wise it's cow dung. It a personal choice and family decision whatever the reason it's there business not yours not mine not the person who started this thread.

Preach, ramjet.

Quote from: NoFooForU on February 03, 2020, 08:01:54 PM

Quote from: ramjet on February 03, 2020, 07:17:29 PM

Quote from: wrastle63 on February 03, 2020, 06:45:36 PM

Quote from: ramjet on February 03, 2020, 06:16:45 PM

Quote from: missinghome on February 03, 2020, 05:27:23 PM
You can't blame a kid if he wants to be better and comes from a poor program. But to say it's all done "legal' That's not true.  Lots of "lines crossed" on this thing. One (top) program right now has a kid on the team that was there as a Freshman a different school as a Sophomore now back there as a Junior. Doesn't live in either district (never has) I know of another (top) program that the family rented a house in the district but actually live 2 hours away. I also know of 1 (top program) that has 8 kids not from there district. It's happening all over it's just becoming more noticeable now because it has trickled down to D2 and D3 programs. In D1 you just transfer schools (for the most part) in D2 and D3 you go wrestle for a different town completely. I feel bad for the kids. 99.9% never wrestle after high school anyway and now they have missed out on the best part of there lives. Where is home? Where is school pride? Who do they hang out with in the summer when they don't live where they go to school? I believe someday the majority of those kids regret transferring.

Another jealous post with zero proof of anything... please stop.

There is 100% proof with this post.

School choice and open enrollment is legal in the State of Wisconsin and unless you have something other than innuendo it's not evidence. Recruitment letters from coaches that's evidence. Other wise it's cow dung. It a personal choice and family decision whatever the reason it's there business not yours not mine not the person who started this thread.

Preach, ramjet.

Cheating means the offending school broke rules. Anyone ANYONE that knows the WIAA does not turn their back on any opportunity to punish any offending school. So you can be ticked off at me but unless you have proof that a rule has been violated stop with the unfounded accusations and cow dung innuendo...this is just a few people that cannot stand programs having success.

In some people's mind winning = cheating.... ::)

So then if recruitment is done verbally, you are good with that?

Quote from: ramjet on February 03, 2020, 07:17:29 PM

Quote from: wrastle63 on February 03, 2020, 06:45:36 PM

Quote from: ramjet on February 03, 2020, 06:16:45 PM

Quote from: missinghome on February 03, 2020, 05:27:23 PM
You can't blame a kid if he wants to be better and comes from a poor program. But to say it's all done "legal' That's not true.  Lots of "lines crossed" on this thing. One (top) program right now has a kid on the team that was there as a Freshman a different school as a Sophomore now back there as a Junior. Doesn't live in either district (never has) I know of another (top) program that the family rented a house in the district but actually live 2 hours away. I also know of 1 (top program) that has 8 kids not from there district. It's happening all over it's just becoming more noticeable now because it has trickled down to D2 and D3 programs. In D1 you just transfer schools (for the most part) in D2 and D3 you go wrestle for a different town completely. I feel bad for the kids. 99.9% never wrestle after high school anyway and now they have missed out on the best part of there lives. Where is home? Where is school pride? Who do they hang out with in the summer when they don't live where they go to school? I believe someday the majority of those kids regret transferring.

Another jealous post with zero proof of anything... please stop.

There is 100% proof with this post.

School choice and open enrollment is legal in the State of Wisconsin and unless you have something other than innuendo it's not evidence. Recruitment letters from coaches that's evidence. Other wise it's cow dung. It a personal choice and family decision whatever the reason it's there business not yours not mine not the person who started this thread.

Oh jeez.  Poking the bear, are we?

Kids go to programs with success, because they want to be successful.  That's not recruiting, that's open choice.

Coaches at successful programs DO NOT recruit.  They invest their energy, hard work, and an incredible amount of time into making the kids they have better wrestlers.  They don't go out to recruit other kids.  They don't have time and that's not their motivation.  To say anything else is insulting to the people that work so hard at doing the right thing.

Quote from: MNbadger on February 03, 2020, 08:12:04 PM
So then if recruitment is done verbally, you are good with that?

Quote from: ramjet on February 03, 2020, 07:17:29 PM

Quote from: wrastle63 on February 03, 2020, 06:45:36 PM

Quote from: ramjet on February 03, 2020, 06:16:45 PM

Quote from: missinghome on February 03, 2020, 05:27:23 PM
You can't blame a kid if he wants to be better and comes from a poor program. But to say it's all done "legal' That's not true.  Lots of "lines crossed" on this thing. One (top) program right now has a kid on the team that was there as a Freshman a different school as a Sophomore now back there as a Junior. Doesn't live in either district (never has) I know of another (top) program that the family rented a house in the district but actually live 2 hours away. I also know of 1 (top program) that has 8 kids not from there district. It's happening all over it's just becoming more noticeable now because it has trickled down to D2 and D3 programs. In D1 you just transfer schools (for the most part) in D2 and D3 you go wrestle for a different town completely. I feel bad for the kids. 99.9% never wrestle after high school anyway and now they have missed out on the best part of there lives. Where is home? Where is school pride? Who do they hang out with in the summer when they don't live where they go to school? I believe someday the majority of those kids regret transferring.

Another jealous post with zero proof of anything... please stop.

There is 100% proof with this post.

School choice and open enrollment is legal in the State of Wisconsin and unless you have something other than innuendo it's not evidence. Recruitment letters from coaches that's evidence. Other wise it's cow dung. It a personal choice and family decision whatever the reason it's there business not yours not mine not the person who started this thread.

Stop with your ridiculous questions. For this to be going on like some are stating would mean that administrators AD and coaches would have to be complicit in committing this "cheating" violation of the rules plus it would mean the WIAA is turning their back. I find it hard to believe any school would risk the entire teams season or have their program FF all matches and wins by violating.

Would you do that MNbadger would you risk this ?
Would your AD allow to take this risk?
Would the school Principle or Administrator?

Does your school ever have kids transfer in for any variety of reasons?

Come on MNbadger are you guys cheating?

Quote from: NoFooForU on February 03, 2020, 08:19:24 PM
Oh jeez.  Poking the bear, are we?

Kids go to programs with success, because they want to be successful.  That's not recruiting, that's open choice.

Coaches at successful programs DO NOT recruit.  They invest their energy, hard work, and an incredible amount of time into making the kids they have better wrestlers.  They don't go out to recruit other kids.  They don't have time and that's not their motivation.  To say anything else is insulting to the people that work so hard at doing the right thing.

To say no coaches at successful programs don't recruit is pretty naive. It may not happen a lot and I'm sure most programs don't do it at all because like you said, they don't need to. But to say of all the successful programs the state has that none of them recruit, that's just not being realistic. Just my opinion.

When I student taught way back when, I was at a private high school. The school had a very successful basketball program and they were openly talking about a kid visiting from another part of the state to tour the school and such. Yes, it's basketball but it'd be silly to not think it doesn't happen across other sports.

I have stated before that I don't really care that much about transfers.  My issue is with people pretending to have rules but do not enforce them.  There are individuals who defy the rules.  There is no reason to get angry and accusatory toward those who have seen recruiting.  To deny it is commonplace is simply ridiculous.  In the last few years in Mn (one just last year)there have been several coaches found to have been recruiting.  I have seen it and had wrestlers recruited in the past.  I suppose without recruitment letters it never happened......
Lastly, I find it funny we don't care about recruitment and/or open enrollment rules but we want to regulate weight management in every single wrestler. 

Quote from: ramjet on February 03, 2020, 08:19:44 PM

Quote from: MNbadger on February 03, 2020, 08:12:04 PM
So then if recruitment is done verbally, you are good with that?

Quote from: ramjet on February 03, 2020, 07:17:29 PM

Quote from: wrastle63 on February 03, 2020, 06:45:36 PM

Quote from: ramjet on February 03, 2020, 06:16:45 PM

Quote from: missinghome on February 03, 2020, 05:27:23 PM
You can't blame a kid if he wants to be better and comes from a poor program. But to say it's all done "legal' That's not true.  Lots of "lines crossed" on this thing. One (top) program right now has a kid on the team that was there as a Freshman a different school as a Sophomore now back there as a Junior. Doesn't live in either district (never has) I know of another (top) program that the family rented a house in the district but actually live 2 hours away. I also know of 1 (top program) that has 8 kids not from there district. It's happening all over it's just becoming more noticeable now because it has trickled down to D2 and D3 programs. In D1 you just transfer schools (for the most part) in D2 and D3 you go wrestle for a different town completely. I feel bad for the kids. 99.9% never wrestle after high school anyway and now they have missed out on the best part of there lives. Where is home? Where is school pride? Who do they hang out with in the summer when they don't live where they go to school? I believe someday the majority of those kids regret transferring.

Another jealous post with zero proof of anything... please stop.

There is 100% proof with this post.

School choice and open enrollment is legal in the State of Wisconsin and unless you have something other than innuendo it's not evidence. Recruitment letters from coaches that's evidence. Other wise it's cow dung. It a personal choice and family decision whatever the reason it's there business not yours not mine not the person who started this thread.

Stop with your ridiculous questions. For this to be going on like some are stating would mean that administrators AD and coaches would have to be complicit in committing this "cheating" violation of the rules plus it would mean the WIAA is turning their back. I find it hard to believe any school would risk the entire teams season or have their program FF all matches and wins by violating.

Would you do that MNbadger would you risk this ?
Would your AD allow to take this risk?
Would the school Principle or Administrator?

Does your school ever have kids transfer in for any variety of reasons?

Come on MNbadger are you guys cheating?

Weight management ? What the heck are you talking about ? I want to regulate my weight and that's what I posted  ;D

MNBadger did you answer my questions ?

Yes, I believe I answered them.  Did you read my post?

Quote from: ramjet on February 03, 2020, 09:10:01 PM
Weight management ? What the heck are you talking about ? I want to regulate my weight and that's what I posted  ;D

MNBadger did you answer my questions ?

Here is the WIAA rule on recruiting.  Please look at what is acceptable. All coaches should be doing the acceptable recruiting methods even for their own kids in their own district.  Kids want to feel wanted.

WIAA rules prevent the recruitment of students for athletic reasons. The specific rule in question states: "No eligibility will be granted for a student whose residence within a school's attendance boundaries, with or without parents, or whose attendance at a school has been the result of undue influence (special consideration due to athletic ability or potential) on the part of any person, whether or not connected with the school."

It's important to note that persons not connected with the school can violate this rule, resulting in a loss of eligibility. Schools are ultimately responsible for the eligibility of all of their students and the school needs to communicate rules and pay close attention to the circumstances that bring students to the school. Obviously, public schools and private schools encourage students to enroll and this certainly can be done without violating the undue influence rule. The following gives some examples of acceptable and unacceptable practices. This list cannot be considered allinclusive, but should be helpful as an example.

Acceptable
• High school personnel visiting a middle school/elementary school to explain programs and encourage all interested students to attend.
• Inviting all interested students from a middle school/elementary school to visit.
• Providing game tickets to all interested students and/or team members from a middle school/elementary school or area youth teams.
• Providing informational pamphlets which describe the high school to all interested students at a middle level/elementary school.
• Providing tuition reduction to prospective students, based on need and/or scholastic achievement.

Unacceptable
• High school personnel visiting a middle school/elementary school sport team to encourage players to attend.
• Inviting selected students, because of athletic potential or ability, to visit.
• Providing game tickets to selected students, based on athletic potential or ability.
• Providing promotional pamphlets to selected students, based on athletic potential or ability.
• Providing tuition reduction to selected students, based wholly or in part on athletic potential or ability.
• Community or booster club member(s) contacting a potential student, because of athletic ability or potential, and encouraging attendance.
• Providing items of apparel and/or other incentives to students.

Additional Examples
• Interpretation of this provision now allows youth athletic teams to receive invitation/complimentary admission to high school sporting events and to be acknowledged or introduced at those events.
• Teams may also perform and/or scrimmage in connection with a high school event.
• Under no circumstances may a youth team be introduced, etc., at more than one contest per season.
• This interpretation provides for admission, acknowledgment and performance and/or scrimmage opportunity.
• These events may not extend or prolong the contest or periods beyond the limits provided by rule.
• Participating in the high school team's game preparations is not permitted (e.g. pregame, half-time, sidelines, locker room).
• Under no circumstances will it be considered acceptable to single out any individual youth/middle level student athlete separate from or disproportionate to the remainder of the team.

It is the responsibility of schools to contact other schools and report any possible violations of WIAA rules. The WIAA is always willing to provide rules clarifications and, where necessary, will impose sanctions on schools and programs. It is far better for schools to provide leadership and control to prevent problems than to have to deal with these issues after the fact.

Thanks Doc for posting the guidlines. It most certainly doesn't require a letter from a coachor even something close to that to constitute "recruiting". Unfortunately a lot of people, including coaches, don't know this and therefore they do break the rules.

This obviously included parents who might be part of a wrestling club, who talk to a wrestler or his parents about coming over to "our" school.  The statements "he would fit perfectly in the line up" or "we could help him get better exposure than at your school" "Our coaches have connections to many college coaches."  These are all lines of communication that can constitute "recruiting". 

It's most certainly being done.

MNBadger and I (along with some of the rest of you) know of a couple programs in MN where the Head Coach was fired and/or suspended. In one case it was club members doing the recruiting. In another it was an assistant coach doing it while he was working as a clinician (ironically the assistant coach was not punished and served as interim Head Coach, and ultimately became Head Coach for the team).

I believe all of our coaches and club members need to me more aware of this.

Next thing you guys will be saying there is pay to play in HS sports  ::)

Wait for it waaait for it....

I think every child should have the choice to be part of a program or school that helps them succeed in all aspects of life. After all it's  for the children !!!!!


School choice gives them that opportunity ✊

With school choice Parents have the option of sending their kids to the school of their CHOICE.  This has changed everything, and is certainly not cheating.  I live in south east Wisconsin and the reality is that many schools in this area simply don't put any real effort into their wrestling programs.  As a Parent, if wrestling was a big part of my child's life, I would strongly consider sending him/her to a school that does.  I referenced Mukwonago in a previous thread as a district that clearly makes the wrestling program a priority.  If I lived in let's say Palmyra's district, you better believe I would ask my kid to consider Mukwonago.  I live in a district that borders Lake Geneva.  4-5 years ago they had one of the largest programs in the area.  Since HC Shane Koehl left the program has gone down hill at an alarming rate.  A few months ago I asked the Parent whose Son had recently wrestled for Badger, what is going on.  He said the Superintendent and AD could care less about wrestling.  There has been no real effort to hire a HC to build the program.  Is that where you want your kid to have to wrestle his next 4 years?

Private schools can offer "scholarships" for kids to come and play. So yeah, it happens.

Quote from: Handles II on February 04, 2020, 09:28:14 AM
Private schools can offer "scholarships" for kids to come and play. So yeah, it happens.

I knew your personal political leaning would filter into this discussion.....thank you.

I'm out on this thread it's idiotic.

Quote from: 1Iota on February 04, 2020, 09:25:05 AM
With school choice Parents have the option of sending their kids to the school of their CHOICE.  This has changed everything, and is certainly not cheating.  I live in south east Wisconsin and the reality is that many schools in this area simply don't put any real effort into their wrestling programs.  As a Parent, if wrestling was a big part of my child's life, I would strongly consider sending him/her to a school that does.  I referenced Mukwonago in a previous thread as a district that clearly makes the wrestling program a priority.  If I lived in let's say Palmyra's district, you better believe I would ask my kid to consider Mukwonago.  I live in a district that borders Lake Geneva.  4-5 years ago they had one of the largest programs in the area.  Since HC Shane Koehl left the program has gone down hill at an alarming rate.  A few months ago I asked the Parent whose Son had recently wrestled for Badger, what is going on.  He said the Superintendent and AD could care less about wrestling.  There has been no real effort to hire a HC to build the program.  Is that where you want your kid to have to wrestle his next 4 years?

Just chiming in as an attendance officer, and one who deals with open enrollment. generally, speaking, there is, in my area, the sentiment that the parent is the best rep for the student. Should be that way. We want to empower parents. So, when I get a kid in my office looking to transfer in, I have the chat with the kid, mom, dad, guardian, whoever. I have yet to see one coming in or out that I even suspected was for sport. Bullying, truancy, etc. are usually the reasons. NEVER saw one that I even suspected athletics. Most parents aren't athletics only people. This si why districts in my area are pretty quick at signing papers for those open enrolling out, and school boards get it done quickly.

If a parent wanted their kid at school A because of their amazing program, that's the parent's choice. But, I wonder how many were lured to the school of choice by recruiting and not just by the program's success at the new school. Maybe the parent is thinking "all other things equal, this school's great at wrestling, and my kid's a dedicated wrestler."

Sorry to cast doubt on the whole "this school recruits wrestlers" thing; but, if it happens, it's few and far between, IMHO. I'd love to see some proof of it. Maybe I'm wrong.

Quote from: bigG on February 04, 2020, 10:36:27 AM

Quote from: 1Iota on February 04, 2020, 09:25:05 AM
With school choice Parents have the option of sending their kids to the school of their CHOICE.  This has changed everything, and is certainly not cheating.  I live in south east Wisconsin and the reality is that many schools in this area simply don't put any real effort into their wrestling programs.  As a Parent, if wrestling was a big part of my child's life, I would strongly consider sending him/her to a school that does.  I referenced Mukwonago in a previous thread as a district that clearly makes the wrestling program a priority.  If I lived in let's say Palmyra's district, you better believe I would ask my kid to consider Mukwonago.  I live in a district that borders Lake Geneva.  4-5 years ago they had one of the largest programs in the area.  Since HC Shane Koehl left the program has gone down hill at an alarming rate.  A few months ago I asked the Parent whose Son had recently wrestled for Badger, what is going on.  He said the Superintendent and AD could care less about wrestling.  There has been no real effort to hire a HC to build the program.  Is that where you want your kid to have to wrestle his next 4 years?

Just chiming in as an attendance officer, and one who deals with open enrollment. generally, speaking, there is, in my area, the sentiment that the parent is the best rep for the student. Should be that way. We want to empower parents. So, when I get a kid in my office looking to transfer in, I have the chat with the kid, mom, dad, guardian, whoever. I have yet to see one coming in or out that I even suspected was for sport. Bullying, truancy, etc. are usually the reasons. NEVER saw one that I even suspected athletics. Most parents aren't athletics only people. This si why districts in my area are pretty quick at signing papers for those open enrolling out, and school boards get it done quickly.

If a parent wanted their kid at school A because of their amazing program, that's the parent's choice. But, I wonder how many were lured to the school of choice by recruiting and not just by the program's success at the new school. Maybe the parent is thinking "all other things equal, this school's great at wrestling, and my kid's a dedicated wrestler."

Sorry to cast doubt on the whole "this school recruits wrestlers" thing; but, if it happens, it's few and far between, IMHO. I'd love to see some proof of it. Maybe I'm wrong.

I know a few Parents who have chosen to school choice due in great part to wrestling.  I think they considered the academics to be a wash. I don't believe any of them were recruited.  Wrestling is a big part of their child's life and they wanted them to have the best experience possible. 

By WIAA rules, there is likely a ton of illegal activity going on with 7th and 8th graders.  Parents and students have multiple close options in a lot of areas geographically.  They are talking at football and baseball games and at wrestling tournaments.  They are sorting out what is best for their family and if they are from different districts they are comparing the positives and negatives.  This is typically how it works.  I have done more recruiting to keep kids in my district than I have recruiting kids to come to our district.

Lets all be honest that recruiting happens but it is not nefarious.  It is simply people gathering and sharing information and there is nothing wrong with that.  If you know of a coach in a sport that went and sat in the living room of an athlete then report it. Otherwise it means nothing.

Let's also admit that many transfer for sports.  Nothing wrong with that.  Lots of kids school choice and athletics would be on the lower percentage of the spectrum as to why they transferred.

Complaining on a message board is worthless.  If it really bothers you then report it to WIAA with the facts that you are unwilling to share on here.

Kids have until Day 1 of sophomore year to choose a high school and face no penalties on transferring.  Some transfer later by simply moving but I know for a fact that in those cases the WIAA greatly investigates residency, etc.

Quote from: ramjet on February 04, 2020, 10:21:38 AM

Quote from: Handles II on February 04, 2020, 09:28:14 AM
Private schools can offer "scholarships" for kids to come and play. So yeah, it happens.

I knew your personal political leaning would filter into this discussion.....thank you.

I'm out on this thread it's idiotic.

BAHAHAH. ;D

thanks for the rules on WIAA recruiting.  And, from the sounds of it, recruiting is ok, as long as you recruit every kid at that school. 

Quote from: Handles II on February 04, 2020, 09:28:14 AM
Private schools can offer "scholarships" for kids to come and play. So yeah, it happens.

Private schools offer Scholarships and tuition reduction for Students in need all the time not for athletes. Our Catholic School K-8 gives scholarships and tuition reduction all the time and we do not have a elite athletic program. A friend of mine who's son goes to Marquette told me about half of all the students athletes and non athletes recieve some sort of tuition reduction. These moneys come from successful and very generious alumni.

Although extremely repetitive (over the years). . . there is some good discussion in this thread.

Parents today verses 50 years ago are overzealous. My dad was a dairy farmer and made it to my junior and senior parents night, that's it. If I told him I wanted to wrestle for a neighboring school he would have laughed at me.

One thing unique about Wisconsin is we have many small school districts. . .at what point and time are we going to have serious discussion on school district consolidation in regards to taxpayers tax dollar relief?

I went to public school, but respect people who send their children to private schools. Nonetheless to create more balance Wisconsin's WIAA needs to discuss and look at adapting IHSA 1.65 multiplier on private schools for the 2020-2021 season.

Quote from: mhsfan2 on February 04, 2020, 12:45:35 PM

Quote from: Handles II on February 04, 2020, 09:28:14 AM
Private schools can offer "scholarships" for kids to come and play. So yeah, it happens.

Private schools offer Scholarships and tuition reduction for Students in need all the time not for athletes. Our Catholic School K-8 gives scholarships and tuition reduction all the time and we do not have a elite athletic program. A friend of mine who's son goes to Marquette told me about half of all the students athletes and non athletes recieve some sort of tuition reduction. These moneys come from successful and very generious alumni.

Thank you for mentioning that. Apparently some people don't believe it, or chose not to.

This much is true, and, for the privates, they'll have the gripe about them recruiting. I look at Aquinas in my area. Great success. I doubt their head coach, though, is chatting it up with my better wrestlers to get them there.

There are so many reasons for open enrollment. Better SPED services is one that pops up. Behavioral difficulties, beyond the scope of SPED is another. If the parents mingle and tell super wrestler that the school with the great wrestling has essentially the same everything else as not-as-good wrestling school, then it's within their rights to make the move.

I'm sure the athletic move is more exception than rule; but happens. Illegal recruiting would be hard to prove, save for the most blatant offenses. Call it in to the WIAA and let them sort it out.

Many ties, though, it's just to put that kid into, what the student and parent see as, a better environment for their needs.

That all said, private schools that accept public funding should accept students with SPED needs and accommodate as the rest of us do. If they can't do that, no $ from the taxpayer. Just my take on open enrollment. My only gripe about open enrollment. Recruiting would be near the end of my concern list.

I think much of this is great conversation and no matter where you sit on the subject you should try to understand the other side of it.  If you are a school that has benefited from move ins, recruiting, open enrollment or whatever, then try to understand that other schools that have been busting their tales for many years to build a program to compete for a title, whether that be a conference, regional or state title, can be frustrated to see a team they are competing against gain talented wrestlers from other areas.  When a team that has been building thinks they have caught up with another team it can be deflating to see that team your trying to catch add wrestlers from other towns.

On the other side, teams that get out of town wrestlers aren't always out looking for kids, it happens because kids want to be part of a good program.  Are these programs suppose to say they don't want the new kids?  I don't know of any programs that would turn down a good wrestler that wants to move over to their school, unless there is significant baggage that comes with that particular kid. 

It does seem like many of the better programs have wrestlers on their team that weren't part of their youth program.  I think it's pretty cool that a team like Mukwonago has a home grown lineup and it makes it easy to pull for them versus some others, but no hard feeling towards any school that has some move ins. 

On a side note, was there a school that had something along the lines of "home grown" on their team shirt?  I thought I remember reading this on a shirt and wondering if it was in response to someone they were competing against?

How is this political?!?!

Quote from: ramjet on February 04, 2020, 10:21:38 AM

Quote from: Handles II on February 04, 2020, 09:28:14 AM
Private schools can offer "scholarships" for kids to come and play. So yeah, it happens.

I knew your personal political leaning would filter into this discussion.....thank you.

I'm out on this thread it's idiotic.

Here in MN a number of years ago I think Owatonna had the "home grown" t-shirts in response to another school.  The funny thing was they have had their share of the same.

Quote from: tyben on February 04, 2020, 02:58:40 PM
I think much of this is great conversation and no matter where you sit on the subject you should try to understand the other side of it.  If you are a school that has benefited from move ins, recruiting, open enrollment or whatever, then try to understand that other schools that have been busting their tales for many years to build a program to compete for a title, whether that be a conference, regional or state title, can be frustrated to see a team they are competing against gain talented wrestlers from other areas.  When a team that has been building thinks they have caught up with another team it can be deflating to see that team your trying to catch add wrestlers from other towns.

On the other side, teams that get out of town wrestlers aren't always out looking for kids, it happens because kids want to be part of a good program.  Are these programs suppose to say they don't want the new kids?  I don't know of any programs that would turn down a good wrestler that wants to move over to their school, unless there is significant baggage that comes with that particular kid. 

It does seem like many of the better programs have wrestlers on their team that weren't part of their youth program.  I think it's pretty cool that a team like Mukwonago has a home grown lineup and it makes it easy to pull for them versus some others, but no hard feeling towards any school that has some move ins. 

On a side note, was there a school that had something along the lines of "home grown" on their team shirt?  I thought I remember reading this on a shirt and wondering if it was in response to someone they were competing against?

Sounds like Minesota has a big problem. Why are you so worried about Wis. Fix your problem and stop responding with the same old stuff that's been said. Sorry but this is getting a little sickening. Kids transfer and wrestle Varsity reserve also. If you build it they will come to you. If this affects your school take care of the problem. If you don't have a dog in the fight who cares. The parents make the sacrifice to move and love the new School system. Also if you build it they will come. Stop beating the dead horse already.

Why so angry at me?!?  I simply responded to the question about the "home grown" shirts.  This is a discussion board.......I am not supposed to discuss?  Who are you to think you are the arbiter of who can participate?

Quote from: The wrestler on February 04, 2020, 07:44:06 PM
Sounds like Minesota has a big problem. Why are you so worried about Wis. Fix your problem and stop responding with the same old stuff that's been said. Sorry but this is getting a little sickening. Kids transfer and wrestle Varsity reserve also. If you build it they will come to you. If this affects your school take care of the problem. If you don't have a dog in the fight who cares. The parents make the sacrifice to move and love the new School system. Also if you build it they will come. Stop beating the dead horse already.

This has gotten just to good to leave alone. The coaches would almost NEVER recruit except for perhaps a few rare instances. After all, it is against WIAA rules. They definitely talk to people and are approached from time to time, but they know better. A good program will attract parents. Active wrestling families travel around, and they talk to a lot of different people. After a few years on the circuit, they know who's who. Parents are the tell all end all, and they are the driving force. Now, if the question is simply "Does recruiting happen?" We would be naive to say no, but it is not the coaches doing it.

Quote from: bigG on February 04, 2020, 02:09:05 PM
This much is true, and, for the privates, they'll have the gripe about them recruiting. I look at Aquinas in my area. Great success. I doubt their head coach, though, is chatting it up with my better wrestlers to get them there.

There are so many reasons for open enrollment. Better SPED services is one that pops up. Behavioral difficulties, beyond the scope of SPED is another. If the parents mingle and tell super wrestler that the school with the great wrestling has essentially the same everything else as not-as-good wrestling school, then it's within their rights to make the move.

I'm sure the athletic move is more exception than rule; but happens. Illegal recruiting would be hard to prove, save for the most blatant offenses. Call it in to the WIAA and let them sort it out.

Many ties, though, it's just to put that kid into, what the student and parent see as, a better environment for their needs.

That all said, private schools that accept public funding should accept students with SPED needs and accommodate as the rest of us do. If they can't do that, no $ from the taxpayer. Just my take on open enrollment. My only gripe about open enrollment. Recruiting would be near the end of my concern list.

One aspect to the Private schools, and an advantage that they have over Public schools in regards to "attracting" students is that they are allowed to draw from other states without the parents paying an out-of-state tuition cost, which they would have to do to attend a Public.

Thinking of Aquinas since you mentioned it, there are a number of students who attend Aquinas (and Ona Luther) and are athletes (or in other extracurriculars) that are from MN and the parents live in MN.  If those parents wanted to send their kid to Onalaska, let's say for their quality basketball team, the parents would need to pay money in the full amount of student spending at that district, while at Aquinas they may be able to get some "scholarship" money or financial aid to lower their costs. The crux of this situation is that now, private voucher schools are recieving public school money, yet there has been no changes to the rules on this issue. Playing with two separate sets of rules.  I'm not inferring that the Aquinas wrestling coach is in anyway "recruiting" kids, however it's just a simple fact that kids can be recruited to these schools for a variety of reasons even if they are from out of state and recieve financial assistance for doing so.

Lastly, from the DPI website and to perhaps clarify some things for people regarding moving their children to another school by renting or having them live with a relative, friend, or coworker that isn't Court ordered:
Under Thayer, a child is a resident of the district where he or she lives, regardless of where his or her parent lives, unless the child is there "for the sole purpose of having the privileges of the public school of the district to which he may be transferred."

Thus, a foster child placed by an agency or court is a resident of the school district in which the foster parents reside. Conversely, a child placed by her or his parents with a relative for the purpose of attending school in the district in which the relative resides is not a resident for school purposes and is not entitled to a free education in that school district.

A child whose parents are divorced or separated and who lives with each parent part of the time may be considered to be a resident of both districts and may attend either or both as a resident. There is no requirement that the child live more than 50% in one parent's district or the other.

An example I'm aware of was the parents of my former wrestler who a couple years after I left the district, rented an apartment in another part of the state so their child could wrestle in that district. The mother lived there a few days per week and would travel back/forth from her actual residence while dad stayed at home and worked. The parents were not legaly separated or divorced, so therefore in this situation, in the state of Wisconsin, this would be illegal.  Keep this in mind for those who rent a place closer to their new job for the kid to live in and attend a different school, or send their child to live with Uncle Bob.

Quote from: Tews19 on February 05, 2020, 10:07:35 AM

Quote from: 1Iota on February 04, 2020, 10:49:13 AM

Quote from: bigG on February 04, 2020, 10:36:27 AM

Quote from: 1Iota on February 04, 2020, 09:25:05 AM
With school choice Parents have the option of sending their kids to the school of their CHOICE.  This has changed everything, and is certainly not cheating.  I live in south east Wisconsin and the reality is that many schools in this area simply don't put any real effort into their wrestling programs.  As a Parent, if wrestling was a big part of my child's life, I would strongly consider sending him/her to a school that does.  I referenced Mukwonago in a previous thread as a district that clearly makes the wrestling program a priority.  If I lived in let's say Palmyra's district, you better believe I would ask my kid to consider Mukwonago.  I live in a district that borders Lake Geneva.  4-5 years ago they had one of the largest programs in the area.  Since HC Shane Koehl left the program has gone down hill at an alarming rate.  A few months ago I asked the Parent whose Son had recently wrestled for Badger, what is going on.  He said the Superintendent and AD could care less about wrestling.  There has been no real effort to hire a HC to build the program.  Is that where you want your kid to have to wrestle his next 4 years?

Just chiming in as an attendance officer, and one who deals with open enrollment. generally, speaking, there is, in my area, the sentiment that the parent is the best rep for the student. Should be that way. We want to empower parents. So, when I get a kid in my office looking to transfer in, I have the chat with the kid, mom, dad, guardian, whoever. I have yet to see one coming in or out that I even suspected was for sport. Bullying, truancy, etc. are usually the reasons. NEVER saw one that I even suspected athletics. Most parents aren't athletics only people. This si why districts in my area are pretty quick at signing papers for those open enrolling out, and school boards get it done quickly.

If a parent wanted their kid at school A because of their amazing program, that's the parent's choice. But, I wonder how many were lured to the school of choice by recruiting and not just by the program's success at the new school. Maybe the parent is thinking "all other things equal, this school's great at wrestling, and my kid's a dedicated wrestler."

Sorry to cast doubt on the whole "this school recruits wrestlers" thing; but, if it happens, it's few and far between, IMHO. I'd love to see some proof of it. Maybe I'm wrong.

I know a few Parents who have chosen to school choice due in great part to wrestling.  I think they considered the academics to be a wash. I don't believe any of them were recruited.  Wrestling is a big part of their child's life and they wanted them to have the best experience possible.

1Lota, you meantion PEASD.... Look at that districts school report cards. They are one of the worst academic districts in the state. The highest per student cost also. Not sure why you mentioned that district and Mukwonago with all the drama the parents of PEASD are bringing upon the residents who want that school district to dissolve. Not to mention that Mukwonago is one of the top school districts in the state. Interesting IMO you brought that district up.

I mentioned that district because I know multiple Parents who school choiced their children to Mukwonago primarily for sports, however I would agree that with the current situation they have an advantage academically as well.  Perhaps a better analogy is the district I live in.   I live in Williams Bay and it is very common for Parents in our district to choice to nearby school districts for sports.  They don't want their kids to play for a small school and prefer the athletic resources of the larger schools.  Academics is certainly not the reason as WB is one of the top schools in the State. 

Wow an awful lot of interesting opinions on this topic. Here is the truth. 99% of all athletes that transfer/open enroll/ school choice (whatever you want to call it) do it for sports. Your typewriter will run out of ink before you will convince me that a student moves schools because of the great math program and just so happens to be a great wrestler and they just so happen to have a great wrestling program. WOW! how lucky is that. As I've said before I understand it and don't blame them for transferring, but lets be honest, it's for sports! And is the way they are doing it legal? Most yes, but many are a very hard NO!

Quote from: Handles II on February 05, 2020, 09:44:52 AM

An example I'm aware of was the parents of my former wrestler who a couple years after I left the district, rented an apartment in another part of the state so their child could wrestle in that district. The mother lived there a few days per week and would travel back/forth from her actual residence while dad stayed at home and worked. The parents were not legaly separated or divorced, so therefore in this situation, in the state of Wisconsin, this would be illegal.  Keep this in mind for those who rent a place closer to their new job for the kid to live in and attend a different school, or send their child to live with Uncle Bob.

You quote rules from the DPI which is for school funding and nothing to do with WIAA as far as I know.  The WIAA has investigated many instances like this and ruled kids ineligible especially if a family maintained two residences.  I would be interested in if this was ever pointed out to the WIAA because I would have bet they would not have approved eligibility if it was truly as you described.

Quote from: missinghome on February 05, 2020, 11:37:32 AM
Wow an awful lot of interesting opinions on this topic. Here is the truth. 99% of all athletes that transfer/open enroll/ school choice (whatever you want to call it) do it for sports. Your typewriter will run out of ink before you will convince me that a student moves schools because of the great math program and just so happens to be a great wrestler and they just so happen to have a great wrestling program. WOW! how lucky is that. As I've said before I understand it and don't blame them for transferring, but lets be honest, it's for sports! And is the way they are doing it legal? Most yes, but many are a very hard NO!

This is 100% wrong about school choice.  It is the exact opposite.  Our district likely loses well over 100 kids to school choice and gains another 100 in school choice from elementary to high school every year.  99% of them have nothing to do with sports.  They are not even athletes.  We are a large school surrounded by small schools.  Most leave for a small school setting and possibly smaller class sizes and more supervision, safety, etc.  Others transfer to the large school because it has a lot more offerings in types of academic courses, etc.  Many school choice because their parent works closer to another school and it is just more convenient.  Some only school choice for certain parts of their K-12 education.

That is what school choice allows.  You only know about the few athletes that absolutely do it for sports reasons but 99% of school choice has nothing to do with sports or even athletes. 

Quote from: missinghome on February 05, 2020, 11:37:32 AM
Wow an awful lot of interesting opinions on this topic. Here is the truth. 99% of all athletes that transfer/open enroll/ school choice (whatever you want to call it) do it for sports. Your typewriter will run out of ink before you will convince me that a student moves schools because of the great math program and just so happens to be a great wrestler and they just so happen to have a great wrestling program. WOW! how lucky is that. As I've said before I understand it and don't blame them for transferring, but lets be honest, it's for sports! And is the way they are doing it legal? Most yes, but many are a very hard NO!

Kids move because parents move.  Parent gets a new job.  Parent gets divorced and move back home or to another community.

Now if you are moving to a new area and your 4th to 8th grade kids play sports, of course athletic programs offered will help decide what school district a parent moves into.

But 99% is a crazy exaggeration.

Quote from: missinghome on February 05, 2020, 11:37:32 AM
Wow an awful lot of interesting opinions on this topic. Here is the truth. 99% of all athletes that transfer/open enroll/ school choice (whatever you want to call it) do it for sports. Your typewriter will run out of ink before you will convince me that a student moves schools because of the great math program and just so happens to be a great wrestler and they just so happen to have a great wrestling program. WOW! how lucky is that. As I've said before I understand it and don't blame them for transferring, but lets be honest, it's for sports! And is the way they are doing it legal? Most yes, but many are a very hard NO!

This is 100% wrong.    Before the other thread shut down, I linked an article from the Racine Journal Times.  1,420 students school choiced OUT of Racine Unified last year alone.  If athletics were the reason-Union Grove alone with their 300+ additions would be killing it every sport.  We have relative that all 3 of their kids school choice out of Racine...for academics.   Journal Times article has the Union Grove touting the new Ag dept as a reason for school choice.

Yes, kids school choice for athletics.  Yes, kids also school choice for academics, due to bullying, friendships, better IEP and special needs, new starts,  drama/music, better links to trades/ag, and a bunch more.

https://dpi.wi.gov/sites/default/files/imce/open-enrollment/pdf/17-18-leg-report.pdf

So, who are these programs that are cheating so much?  Still haven't seen any names.  I WANT NAMES!   :P

Quote from: allSWAL on February 05, 2020, 12:19:53 PM
https://dpi.wi.gov/sites/default/files/imce/open-enrollment/pdf/17-18-leg-report.pdf

Great information to share and very interesting.

1) With each transfer that changes $7,000+ in state funding from one school to another.  Schools are fighting for that $7,000+ that comes with every student.  Many are realizing that to make that happen they have to invest in things that make them different.  That might be coaches and facilities.  That might mean other extracurriculars.  That might be different academic programs. 
2) Look at the data and see who is winning?  Green bay school district had a net change of -1760 in open enrollment.  LOL!  That is not 99% athletes.  Bay Port (Howard-Suamico) school district borders Green Bay district and had a net gain of +544 and AShwaubenon has +1020.  That is attracting students that likely improve your schools test numbers and also other programs like athletics.  A small district like Grantsburg has a +819.  Not sure how McFarland can have a +2,803 number?  Kaukauna has a negative number and Kimberly has a positive number.  Kaukauna is investing greatly to change that
3) 100 students to the positive and the district gets another $700,000 in funding minimum.  That can pay off investments pretty fast.

My big problem is the private schools and vouchers.  If they want state money through vouchers which is fine with I have grown to accept but still cannot figure out why they don't then have to go by the same rules and regulations that public schools do.

Quote from: DocWrestling on February 05, 2020, 12:45:46 PM

Quote from: allSWAL on February 05, 2020, 12:19:53 PM
https://dpi.wi.gov/sites/default/files/imce/open-enrollment/pdf/17-18-leg-report.pdf

Great information to share and very interesting.

1) With each transfer that changes $7,000+ in state funding from one school to another.  Schools are fighting for that $7,000+ that comes with every student.  Many are realizing that to make that happen they have to invest in things that make them different.  That might be coaches and facilities.  That might mean other extracurriculars.  That might be different academic programs. 
2) Look at the data and see who is winning?  Green bay school district had a net change of -1760 in open enrollment.  LOL!  That is not 99% athletes.  Bay Port (Howard-Suamico) school district borders Green Bay district and had a net gain of +544 and AShwaubenon has +1020.  That is attracting students that likely improve your schools test numbers and also other programs like athletics.  A small district like Grantsburg has a +819.  Not sure how McFarland can have a +2,803 number?  Kaukauna has a negative number and Kimberly has a positive number.  Kaukauna is investing greatly to change that
3) 100 students to the positive and the district gets another $700,000 in funding minimum.  That can pay off investments pretty fast.

My big problem is the private schools and vouchers.  If they want state money through vouchers which is fine with I have grown to accept but still cannot figure out why they don't then have to go by the same rules and regulations that public schools do.

Not sure exactly how these number are accounted for, but I do think they are K-12 grade numbers.  Not everything falls within the high school.

They are absolutely K-12 numbers.  When discussing school choice it is about parents choice from K-12.  It is a low percentage where it is just about high school athletics.

I guess you can spin my post how ever you want but I'll try it again. 99% of all "Athletes that transfer" is about sports. Not 99% of every single kid that transfers. I'm guessing 99% of all kids that transfer are about school choice not athletics. But this thread is asking about kids transferring to different schools to play sports. I'm not talking about the 100 kids that transferred total. I'm talking about the 5 10 or 15  that were Athletes. You all know what I'm talking about don't try to spin it with state aid etc. Bottom line is a lot of athletes transfer to play sports not because of the academic programs. As for "calling out schools" We all know you can't do that or this thread get dropped. It is very easy to go on track wrestling and check out any top teams wrestlers profile. Go back a few years and you will see they were not from that school. Not all but some. Again I have no problem with them doing it but don't act like you don't know it's happening for sports, because you know it is.

So my question would be of the kids that have open enrolled and are now wrestling, what percentage open enrolled because of wrestling versus another reason.  Also, what percentage of teams that are top 5-10 in each division, have all kids that went to grade school in that particular district.

Again, I don't have any problem with kids moving to a different school district to wrestle if that is important to them.  Just curious as to how prevalent it is with the top wrestling programs.

I hadn't read missinghome's message before I posted but it looks like we were on the same page.  I'm curious but don't have time to look at teams rosters on track and research them.

Quote from: missinghome on February 05, 2020, 04:42:04 PM
But this thread is asking about kids transferring to different schools to play sports.

No, this thread was started by claiming that programs are cheating by recruiting...

Quote from: wrestler_73 on February 03, 2020, 12:19:26 PM
is anyone else sick and tired of the obvious recruiting that is happening by some of the top programs in the state.  Or, do we just shrug our shoulders and let it happen.  These programs have their top volunteers that go to kids tournaments or coach at the state level.  I would love to see how these programs do with their own kids.  I do not think this is good for the overall sport or programs in the state.

It turned into a discussion about open enrollment.  I still don't see any evidence that programs are obviously recruiting.

Great question tyben. I hope someone on here looks it up to see how many were there in grade school. Our baseball team won back to back state titles in 2017 and 2018 (Athens) and every single kid on the team was on the T ball team in kindergarten. Now that's pretty awesome if you ask me. Another interesting fact about that is I believe only 2 players had both parents go to school here. But every family was here before the kids started school.

That's awesome, did all those great wrestlers from Athens in the 1990's have kids and get them into baseball? LOL

Quote from: handsandtoes on February 05, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
Great question tyben. I hope someone on here looks it up to see how many were there in grade school. Our baseball team won back to back state titles in 2017 and 2018 (Athens) and every single kid on the team was on the T ball team in kindergarten. Now that's pretty awesome if you ask me. Another interesting fact about that is I believe only 2 players had both parents go to school here. But every family was here before the kids started school.

The WIAA needs to stop this recruiting of kids in 4K and younger.    There could be some scientist running DNA tests on babies and sending the super athletes to a specific school district to build championship level teams.   ::)

Is this what happened in Rapids 40 years ago?  They had quite the impressive run in wrestling.

Quote from: missinghome on February 05, 2020, 04:42:04 PM
99% of all "Athletes that transfer" is about sports.

This is likely very true but nothing wrong with that or against the rules.  You are simply speaking about school choice.  It is perfectly legal for any 8th or 9th grader to transfer to another school with the sole reason being sports.  I know of a basketball player that transferred after his junior year as the family literally moved to another district in an apartment.  All for senior year of sports.   But it was all legal because they had no residence any longer in our district.

This thread was started about "cheating through recruiting".  I believe that this is likely happened minimally to any degree that the WIAA would prosecute or deny eligibility.

Anyone that has facts that someone is cheating through recruiting and does not report it to the WIAA is just a whiny hypocrite.

If recruiting was as prevalent as some want us to believe then why has there been no disciplinary actions taken by the WIAA in the past years and years?  A big part of it can be that proving recruiting would be very difficult to have facts because all it is likely at all is informal verbal conversations. 

Hello I was just curious if anyone knows if you can transfer before junior year to a new district,  rent an apartment just before junior year in the new district and still maintain a home address in the district you are transferring from ?

Quote from: Smittyoo on February 05, 2020, 08:24:32 PM
Hello I was just curious if anyone knows if you can transfer before junior year to a new district,  rent an apartment just before junior year in the new district and still maintain a home address in the district you are transferring from ?

Think this was addressed last year in basketball.

https://madison.com/wsj/sports/high-school/wiaa-moves-to-clarify-controversial-transfer-rule-that-enabled-super/article_d43cefa0-b1f6-5a98-8a30-1477302fd4da.html

I think the difference between the two is that when the transfer athletes family maintains two residences correct ? They should have to make a full move correct ?

Actually I've never posted on this forum before fact - and was introduced to this topic today by a friend that I work with - I have no idea of the case your speaking about I am just trying to clarify the inequalities that are created of rules are circumvented

https://www.wiaawi.org/Portals/0/PDF/Eligibility/eligibilityinfoform.pdf

Basically, you can only have one residence as your primary residence and that's defined as your parents/guardians live with you in that residence.

Thanks for the info - it seems there is a bit of gray area there as to the definition of primary residence and to how the WIAA views what that is- it does not take a lot of looking to see people are indeed having multiple residences in different districts at the same time - also I believe in the sport of wrestling all every is doing is trying to find a program that will give the athlete the best training environment and that means good training partners- it's hard to develope when you don't have the quality in your room to train with that's why great wrestlers usually come from wrestling family's (built in training partners ) or you see them having success in pairs -I think when atheletes circumvent the rules to achieve this it becomes a competitive advantage and you see this at the youth level when kids join multiple clubs and larger clubs- this is going on in all sports soccer basketball etc .... becoming big business !

Quote from: wrastle63 on February 03, 2020, 06:45:36 PM

Quote from: ramjet on February 03, 2020, 06:16:45 PM

Quote from: missinghome on February 03, 2020, 05:27:23 PM
You can't blame a kid if he wants to be better and comes from a poor program. But to say it's all done "legal' That's not true.  Lots of "lines crossed" on this thing. One (top) program right now has a kid on the team that was there as a Freshman a different school as a Sophomore now back there as a Junior. Doesn't live in either district (never has) I know of another (top) program that the family rented a house in the district but actually live 2 hours away. I also know of 1 (top program) that has 8 kids not from there district. It's happening all over it's just becoming more noticeable now because it has trickled down to D2 and D3 programs. In D1 you just transfer schools (for the most part) in D2 and D3 you go wrestle for a different town completely. I feel bad for the kids. 99.9% never wrestle after high school anyway and now they have missed out on the best part of there lives. Where is home? Where is school pride? Who do they hang out with in the summer when they don't live where they go to school? I believe someday the majority of those kids regret transferring.

Another jealous post with zero proof of anything... please stop.

There is 100% proof with this post.

Proof of what? Unless you know the specific personal circumstances of the family/child you don't know anything. Yes, in one case a freshmen left a district, and then came back as a junior. The only fact is they left and came back. Too many people assume they know the motive. If you don't know exactly, don't assume things. You are only capable of inserting what fits your narrative/assumptions and you may be far from the real story.

Eligibility Verification of Transfer Student
"A student who transfers from any school into a member school after the sixth consecutive semester following entry into grade 9 shall be
ineligible for competition (at any level, but may practice) for one calendar year unless the transfer is made necessary by a total
change in residence by parent(s)."

9th Grade Students
A student who has been in attendance in a school district for at least one complete school year prior to reaching Grade 9 and has not
broken enrollment during that time is eligible in that school district upon entering Grade 9. RE II, 1-A-6
Transfer at the Beginning of the school year
(first day of fall practice or first day of school)
Open enrolled and/or tuition paying students entering 9th and/or 10th grade at the beginning of the school year and who are within the
first four consecutive semesters of high school will be afforded unrestricted eligibility provided all other rules governing student eligibility
are met. RE II, 3-A-2
During the school year
(after the first day of fall practice or first day of school)
9th grade students who transfer after the beginning of the school year and with written consent from both schools directly involved shall
be restricted to non-varsity opportunities for the remainder of the school year. Restrictions are removed upon entering 10th grade. RE II,
3-A-4 Full eligibility is restored upon entering 10th grade provided all other rules governing student eligibility are met.

10th Grade Students
A full-time student, whether an adult or not, is eligible for varsity interscholastic competition at the school within whose attendance
boundaries his/her parents reside within the given school district provided all other rules governing student eligibility are met. 10th grade
students transferring at the beginning of the year and who live in the school district their parents primary residence is located
will be afforded unrestricted eligibility provided all other rules governing student eligibility are met.
Transfer at the Beginning of the school year (first day of fall practice or first day of school)
Open enrolled and/or tuition paying students entering 9th and/or 10th grade at the beginning of the school year and who are within the
first four consecutive semesters of high school will be afforded unrestricted eligibility provided all other rules governing student eligibility
are met. RE II, 3-A-2
During the school year (after the first day of fall practice or first day of school)
10th grade students who transfer after the beginning of the school year and with written consent from both schools directly involved shall
be restricted to non-varsity opportunities for one calendar year (365 days beginning with first day of attendance at the new school). RE II,
3-A-3

11th Grade Students
Transfer at the Beginning of the school year
(first day of fall practice or first day of school)
Open enrolled and/or tuition paying students entering 11th grade at the beginning of the school year and who are within the first six
semesters of high school shall be restricted to non-varsity opportunities for one calendar year (365 days beginning with first day of
attendance at the new school). RE II, 3-A-3
During the school year
(after the first day of fall practice or first day of school)
11th grade students who transfer after the beginning of the school year and with written consent from both schools directly involved shall
be restricted to nonvarsity opportunities for one calendar year (365 days beginning with first day of attendance at the new school). 3-A-6

12th Grade Students
Open enrolled and/or tuition paying students entering 12th grade as transfer students are ineligible to compete at any level for one
calendar year, but may practice.RE II, 3-A-1, 3-A-5
NOTE: If a student transfers from a co-op school program to another in that co-op, the student is eligible for the co-op sport and the
above rules apply for the non-co-op sports at the school.
Additional Parts of the Transfer Rule
With transfers occurring after the outset of a semester, the student cannot establish eligibility at the new school until the fifth calendar day
after such transfer.
Ineligible for competition – defined as ineligible at all levels (9th grade, C team, junior varsity, varsity reserve, varsity).

Waivers
The residence and transfer requirement may be waived according to the following provisions:
1. After a student has not participated and/or has been restricted to nonvarsity competition for one calendar year because parents do
not live within that school's attendance boundaries, he/she becomes automatically eligible under this Section regardless of
parents residence and for as long as enrollment is continuous (uninterrupted) in that school.
2. The residence and transfer requirement may be waived, if requested in advance, by a member school on behalf of one of its
students and upon presentation of documentation detailing extenuating circumstances. Such documentation must include
communications from (a) parents, (b) person(s) with whom student is living within requesting school's attendance boundaries
and (c) school officials within whose attendance boundaries parents reside. Depending upon the nature of extenuating
circumstances, eligibility may be limited to nonvarsity competition except in situations involving transfer after a student's fourth
consecutive semester following entry into grade 9.
3. In cases associated with Section 1, A, (2) and (4), Section 2, A, (1) and Section 3, A, (1) of this Article, first-time 9th grade
students will be permitted one transfer upon appropriate petition to the Board of Control if the student has attended no more
than three days of practice and/or has attended no more than three days of school.
Extenuating circumstance is defined as an unforeseeable, unavoidable and uncorrectable act, condition or event which results in
severe burden and/or involuntary change, that mitigates the rule.
In considering a waiver request based on extenuating circumstances, the element of events outside a student or family's control vs.
choices/decisions/actions which contain knowable/predictable outcomes or consequences, is always an integral part of the review. Denial
is made when it appears this student's situation has come about largely as a result of choices, decisions and/or actions made by the
student or his/her family and/or when there is no evidence or documentation to support a given request.
Required documentation to be sent as one complete package:
- EVTS (Eligibility Verification of Transfer Student) form - exchanged between schools and WIAA - may serve as documentation from
"sending" school.
- "Sending" family – explaining circumstances leading to transfer
- "Receiving" family – documenting acceptance, school enrollment, residence, and meeting graduation requirement
- Receiving/requesting school – student transcripts
- Supplemental documentation that can be helpful when requesting a transfer/residence waiver includes: medical, law
enforcement/courts, foster care, HHS, military, e.g.
Requests should be sent to the WIAA by the athletic director of the receiving school. All of the material should be collected by the
receiving school and sent to Wade Labecki, Deputy Director, at the WIAA along with the waiver form.

Financial Hardship
Supplemental documentation that can be helpful supporting a claim of financial hardship:
- a written chronology detailing what's taken place and why the family feels they are facing financial hardship
- copies of bills/invoices for health-related issues and/or home events that have left them financially strapped
- insurance correspondence documenting financial hardship
- copies of tax returns
- letters from employers, newspaper clippings citing changes to employment, etc.
- letters from the nonpublic school they are leaving supporting the claim

Letters from the nonpublic school they are leaving are always beneficial; corroborating that they have exhausted all avenues to stay in
the school are significant. Bottom line is the family wants to tell their story with good detail and explanation of events outside their control
which have resulted in creating the 'extenuating circumstance' - they may choose to corroborate their story with any supportive
documentation that they feel might be helpful for a stranger to know Waivers for financial hardship must show all avenues have been
exhausted. Demonstration of a significant change in finances has directly affected enrollment. The expectations that tuition rises and is
paid at nonpublic schools is a given. We have received W2 forms, bankruptcy filings, unemployment records, foreclosure notices, etc. All
of the material should be collected by the receiving school and sent to Wade Labecki, Deputy Director, at the WIAA along with
the waiver form.

Move, but not complete - Sunset Clause
Our waiver rules do allow requests for eligibility for students who do move when it is made necessary. If a family has the intention of
moving but is in between the sale of one home and the purchase of another home, the WIAA does have a method of relief available
through extenuating circumstances referred to as the "Sunset" clause. Eligibility can be granted for a period of time until the family makes
the complete and total move to the school.
The "Sunset" provision does allow a student to participate in regular season athletics, but an update on the status of the family's home
sale/relocation prior to the tournament series is required before a waiver could be extended through the tournament series.
In order to request that type of a waiver, the school and family will need to formally make the request and include a complete explanation
of the family situation. Documentation from the sending school acknowledging acceptance of the request is necessary. The accepting
school will need to complete and submit an Eligibility Verification of Transfer Student (EVTS) form. All of the material should be
collected by the receiving school and sent to Wade Labecki, Deputy Director, at the WIAA along with the waiver form

Question number 4000 on this topic. If an athlete "moves to a district" after his Freshman year do they need to keep residence for the remainder of there high school years to remain eligible? Example: They live in district A and rent an apartment in district B starting Sophomore year.  Do they need to keep that apartment for the Junior and senior years or once they have a year in can they now open enroll?

Breaking news coming out of Nicolet that will basically tell you that transferring and getting eligibility is not difficult

1) Top player in the country plays for Sun Praire basketball for freshman and sophomore years
2) Family moves to Nicolet so he plays basketball for Nicolet as a junior and in process commits to Duke
3) Decides he wants the big time and transfers to IMG academy in Florida for senior year.  attends for 1st semester until December but never played basketball.  Moves back to Nicolet in December
4) WIAA just approved him eligible for games starting tonight.

None of these transfers had anything to do with academics and were all about sports but I guess is legal because of residency.

This thread has lost all entertainment value.

Really different his family still lives there and maintained a residency - although I agree he should have to sit the year - still the subject was about getting around transfer rules by creating a surrogate residence to wrestle

https://www.wissports.net/news_article/show/1084874

Here is article on basketball player.  Eligibility actually was about taking payment and not residency.

I still think residency is a weird thing to interpret.  What if a kid lives in School District A but attends private school for three years.   Can he transfer to School district A for senior year since he always lived in the district?  Private schools don't even have district boundaries?

So what would be a current list of top high school teams that are built from district only kids?  Maybe this belongs in a new thread as I don't think it fits under Cheating.  I would say that most programs and maybe all programs that have kids not originally from their district are not cheating but just benefit from kids moving in because they are good programs.

Tyben, you bring up some good points.  I didn't read all 8 pages of this, but I think the word "cheating" can be applied pretty loosely.  When I think of cheating I'd think of weight-cutting BS to get around the rules, messing with grades or test scores,  a kid living alone in an apartment someone else is paying for, a kid living with a coach for just a few days a week, stuff like that.  If folks want their kids to get the best coaching and the best programs - or the best music programs or math teachers - who can argue with that? 

Quote from: DocWrestling on February 07, 2020, 01:34:13 PM
https://www.wissports.net/news_article/show/1084874

Here is article on basketball player.  Eligibility actually was about taking payment and not residency.

I still think residency is a weird thing to interpret.  What if a kid lives in School District A but attends private school for three years.   Can he transfer to School district A for senior year since he always lived in the district?  Private schools don't even have district boundaries?

Private get a lot of advantages. They can take state money without accepting IEP students w/out accommodation. The residency rules are out the window.

BUT, the kid that lives in my town but goes to Jeeziss Mary and Joe academy in (whatever town outside our district) can come back to his public, anytime. One thing I'm struggling with is the kid who was homeschooled for however long, then wants to enter the public as a junior, with no online school transcripts. Grr.

The sad truth is we'll never be able to save kids from parents. Parents who change schools for ports, however many or few, are the least of our problems.

Based on the feedback on this topic, it is clear that this is something that people love or are really sick of...for the most part.  Hopefully the discussion will help clean up the cheating. 

Is the survey a joke? Bidding out kids to top programs? Now you are inferring there is a monetary transaction occurring? Come on - it is tournament time with some great dual matchups across the state and THIS is the topic that goes to the top? Unbelievable.

#Hardworkpaysoff  ;D

the entertainment value of this forum continues to grow.  Getting my moneys worth from it!  HAHAHAHA!  :D :D :D

Quote from: wrestler_73 on February 18, 2020, 01:07:52 PM
Based on the feedback on this topic, it is clear that this is something that people love or are really sick of...for the most part.  Hopefully the discussion will help clean up the cheating.

How is transferring to a different school/program cheating?  The WIAA says a kid can do it. 

And, no one has any proof of any recruiting violations. 

Stop wasting time on this discussion.

How many people on this topic has kids in wrestling. To me this is not Evan a worth talking about if you don't have a dog in the fight. There is not a person who will risk losing a job for a kid doing it illegal. I know that for a fact. The law was passed for open enrollment. I take it pretty serious
When you people call out kids for cheating. Let it go people. Enough is enough already. Spend your time building up your wrestling program instead of spending your time on this topic. Sounds like you are jealous that no one wants to transfer to your school. Believe me if someone came to your school to wrestle you would not say a word. So do the right thing and drop it already. Thanks to the people that agree with me.

Quote from: The wrestler on February 18, 2020, 11:44:52 PM
How many people on this topic has kids in wrestling. To me this is not Evan a worth talking about if you don't have a dog in the fight. There is not a person who will risk losing a job for a kid doing it illegal. I know that for a fact. The law was passed for open enrollment. I take it pretty serious
When you people call out kids for cheating. Let it go people. Enough is enough already. Spend your time building up your wrestling program instead of spending your time on this topic. Sounds like you are jealous that no one wants to transfer to your school. Believe me if someone came to your school to wrestle you would not say a word. So do the right thing and drop it already. Thanks to the people that agree with me.

Nofoooryou. You are the man. Thank you so much for your post. Makes me feel better that people like you agree with my post. Good luck to your team in the next couple of weeks. Thanks again.

Nailed it

Well, not everyone wants to deny this is happening.  While some of it is perfectly in the rules, it has some serious ethical questions.  Many people are tired of it, some want us to stop talking about it.  Some don't care.

Great thread. I have been going back and forth for a couple of years on if transfering my son to a good wrestling program is worth it. I have actively explored the idea and I am seriously considering it. Especially knowing the type of team he would be on during his time at the H.S. program.

Comparing the academics, culture, and other factors that appear equal among the schools targeted leaves the wrestling program as the difference. My rationale is why not get a great education and get a great wrestling team atmosphere while you are at it. More enjoyable doing it as a team than strictly an individual.

Great idea for your son. Won't believe how much more your son can learn not just in wrestling but new school atmosphere and does for a kid in all around different culture. Has a lot of influence on making decisions down the road. It's fun winning on a team instead of winning his match but the team always losing. What school are you thinking of going to.

Quote from: GradeTough on February 19, 2020, 01:01:54 PM
Great thread. I have been going back and forth for a couple of years on if transfering my son to a good wrestling program is worth it. I have actively explored the idea and I am seriously considering it. Especially knowing the type of team he would be on during his time at the H.S. program.

Comparing the academics, culture, and other factors that appear equal among the schools targeted leaves the wrestling program as the difference. My rationale is why not get a great education and get a great wrestling team atmosphere while you are at it. More enjoyable doing it as a team than strictly an individual.

And don't let anyone tell you that what you are doing is cheating or un-ethical.  You have the right as a parent to do this, and it doesn't violate any rules.  Best of luck on your search. 

lol...it can't be cheating. I know a few parents that looked into this as their son was nearing high school. Plus it is openly talked about during practices.

In the end you want to put your kid in a position of success on multiple levels. It isn't a clear cut decision. Looking at Slinger, G-Town, and Arrowhead.

Quote from: GradeTough on February 19, 2020, 01:01:54 PM
Great thread. I have been going back and forth for a couple of years on if transfering my son to a good wrestling program is worth it. I have actively explored the idea and I am seriously considering it. Especially knowing the type of team he would be on during his time at the H.S. program.

Comparing the academics, culture, and other factors that appear equal among the schools targeted leaves the wrestling program as the difference. My rationale is why not get a great education and get a great wrestling team atmosphere while you are at it. More enjoyable doing it as a team than strictly an individual.

Open enrollment by the rules is NOT cheating. It's a family decision and it's your decision you can do it and should not have any BS from anyone. Play by the rules you are good to go. This thread was an obvious rhetoric aimed at successful programs out of jealousy and speculation.

Quite honestly, if parents want to move their kids because they think their kids are superstars and are going to benefit so much more and get scholarships, good ridden's. Most of the time, those parents are selfish and are not good for a program or team, jumping from youth program to youth program, High School to High School and most of the time, they are done wrestling soon after HS.

I am more impressed with kids who help their program become better and win as a team.

I do think it is wrong when programs recruit, and they do, and those WIAA guidelines that were posted are so cloudy and often overlooked. Look at all of the High School Coaches who are coaching their HS kids at Freestyle State, its illegal, but they do it.

Quote from: GradeTough on February 19, 2020, 01:47:47 PM
lol...it can't be cheating. I know a few parents that looked into this as their son was nearing high school. Plus it is openly talked about during practices.

In the end you want to put your kid in a position of success on multiple levels. It isn't a clear cut decision. Looking at Slinger, G-Town, and Arrowhead.

It can be cheating if they are openly recruited for their athletic ability. Arrowhead is one of the biggest culprits. Slinger is a true story of a homegrown program.

Quote from: YAAFAHB on February 20, 2020, 10:01:01 AM

Slinger is a true story of a homegrown program.

Ahh, we see your true colors.  And, Slinger isn't the only program in the state that has homegrown talent.  Don't disparage another program because they're not exactly the same as your home town team.

Every school has its own identity. They are noted for excelling in certain sports in a conference. Some schools have more sport programs than the school can handle. That makes some schools not good in any sports. A school like Wrightstown this year are ranked in all the sports. Majority of most schools don't support the wrestling programs because it is not a professional sport. When you have a great wrestler and their is no one in the wrestling room to practice with and pushing you to be better what do you do. Ask your parents to go to AWA academy to learn more and they will if you can improve your wrestling then you are entering high school and your program have not won a conference match in years. Nobody for your son to improve. Nine times out of ten if a kid transfers to a school for wrestling he will only wrestle or and play football. When you have a bushel of apples and and one rotten apple in it they can turn all the apples rotten fast. Your wrestling program has to be full of a lot of positive people to help the TEAM. That is what wrestling is about. If you can not put 14 kids on the mat you will not go far. That's where the apples come in the program. That is why the kids transfer. Get your school and the parents to back your program. Always feel sorry for the schools that don't have nobody in the stands to watch their wrestling team. That's why kids transfer.

Quote from: YAAFAHB on February 20, 2020, 10:01:01 AM

It can be cheating if they are openly recruited for their athletic ability. Arrowhead is one of the biggest culprits.

Arrowhead doesn't need to recruit.  Everyone knows that take transfers.  To imply they are violating the rules is wrong on your part.  They are a huge district with the means to put funds into their athletic programs.  That is how they attract kids from outside their district.  So, don't throw shade on them because parents want something better for their kids.  Look internally to see what your home town district can make do to improve what they offer to families. 

Quote from: BackwardsHatAttack on February 20, 2020, 10:19:48 AM

Quote from: NoFooForU on February 20, 2020, 10:15:59 AM

Quote from: YAAFAHB on February 20, 2020, 10:01:01 AM

Slinger is a true story of a homegrown program.

Ahh, we see you're true colors.  And, Slinger isn't the only program in the state that has homegrown talent.  Don't disparage another program because they're not exactly the same as your home town team.

Mukwonago=homegrown, too.

Agreed, Great example. There are plenty of similar examples. My use of Slinger was just came to mind because the post stated it was one of their choices. Look, I have no problem if a parent wants to "transfer" their kid because they are not happy with a program or school, My problem is when kids are recruited, which there is a difference, where coaches are actively looking to get kids to come to schools. I look at schools like mukwonago, slinger, Burlington, and many more I see homegrown teams.

Recruitment probably happens, but what are you going to do unless it's caught.  I guess you can rant and rant on the forum   ::)

I had 3 HS kids in 3 different HS in the same year.  2 open enrolled, 1 stayed put, each had their own reason and each HS offered our student / athlete additional opportunities that the other HS did not have.  I never see that as a bad thing to give our kids opportunities and choices. 

Quote from: YAAFAHB on February 20, 2020, 10:01:01 AM

Quote from: GradeTough on February 19, 2020, 01:47:47 PM
Looking at Slinger, G-Town, and Arrowhead.

Slinger is a true story of a homegrown program.

Wait a minute...If GradeTough's kid goes to "Home Grown" Slinger are they then cheating too?? What can the coaches there do to stop this from happening???

"One thing unique about Wisconsin is we have many small school districts. . .at what point and time are we going to have serious discussion on school district consolidation in regards to taxpayers tax dollar relief?"

We will not. Because the state legislature will not touch that hornets nest with a 100-foot pole. Because whacking a school district actually turns out to be more expensive than keeping it as those in the Palmyra-Eagle School District who wanted to strangle their own schools found out. Because if you closes a school you condemn the towns which they are in to economic deprivation and poverty (don't believe me? Find a small town in Wisconsin which has an open school building and one that doesn't and tell me what the differnce is. I think you'll find it stark.) And which districts are you going to take out hmm and what are you going to do when they don't want to be eliminated? Hmmm?

Bottom line is if consolidation happens, it will happen when two districts agree merge on their own and the citizens of both districts are agreeable to it. In other words, it takes place of its own volition, not because someone forces it on them.

Quote from: BackwardsHatAttack on February 20, 2020, 10:19:48 AM

Quote from: NoFooForU on February 20, 2020, 10:15:59 AM

Quote from: YAAFAHB on February 20, 2020, 10:01:01 AM

Slinger is a true story of a homegrown program.

Ahh, we see you're true colors.  And, Slinger isn't the only program in the state that has homegrown talent.  Don't disparage another program because they're not exactly the same as your home town team.

Mukwonago=homegrown, too.

Not that it really impacts this discussion, but Mukwonago's superintendent (Shawn McNulty) was one of my wrestlers for me in high school.

Quote from: npope on February 20, 2020, 01:10:59 PM

Quote from: BackwardsHatAttack on February 20, 2020, 10:19:48 AM

Quote from: NoFooForU on February 20, 2020, 10:15:59 AM

Quote from: YAAFAHB on February 20, 2020, 10:01:01 AM

Slinger is a true story of a homegrown program.

Ahh, we see you're true colors.  And, Slinger isn't the only program in the state that has homegrown talent.  Don't disparage another program because they're not exactly the same as your home town team.

Mukwonago=homegrown, too.

Not that it really impacts this discussion, but Mukwonago's superintendent (Shawn McNulty) was one of my wrestlers for me in high school.

Their AD is the former head coach as well.

Quote from: Napoleon Dynamite on February 20, 2020, 12:14:47 PM


1) It is almost impossible to open enroll into Slinger High School
2) People (where their kids don't even play sports) have tried...and have been denied...
3) Would Slinger wrestling welcome them in..... if within the rules.... of course.
4) So yes, the team has had zero transfers and is "homegrown", but the reason is listed above
5) If you want into Slinger, almost certainly you need to move to the Village
6) How many other cities can boast a ski hill and a racetrack?

;D

Slinger.... "city"....  ::)

Quote from: crossface21 on February 20, 2020, 01:15:44 PM


Not that it really impacts this discussion, but Mukwonago's superintendent (Shawn McNulty) was one of my wrestlers for me in high school.

Their AD is the former head coach as well.
[/quote]

McNulty was former wrestling HC.  So was their AD.

Quote from: npope on February 20, 2020, 01:10:59 PM

Not that it really impacts this discussion, but Mukwonago's superintendent (Shawn McNulty) was one of my wrestlers for me in high school. [/quote]

Yeah Nate. . .and his younger brother Ryan was one of my wrestlers!  ;)