Wisconsin Wrestlers earning ALL American during Barry's tenure

[benaskren]

Yes full ride to Mizzou.  Also had full ride offers to UNI, Az St and Edinboro.  I loved Mizzou from the time of my first visit.  I immediately like the team and saw Coach Smith's vision of building a perennial powerhouse from a doormat.  Proud to have been part of the process.

[wrestler_73]

Vision
Clear articulation of that vision to recruits, wrestlers, families, high schools, youth
Communication to all stakeholders and understanding of how to grow the state wide support for the program
Ability to build ownership by all wrestlers on the team..to feel a part of that program building and their role (even if it is small) in the program

It's pretty clear why our best wrestlers like Ben and Alex choose other programs.

[lizard king]

Not in Ben's case, but keep in mind that many kids get "full scholarships" to schools to wrestle that are not entirely out of the 9.9  I know schools and kids who have gotten scholarships that are maybe 25% wrestling and 60% or more academic.  This may not be true at Madison, I do not know, but I do know it is true in other schools.  If you are getting 50% for wrestling and 50% from something else, heck, you are getting a full ride. 

[benaskren]

To answer that last question I know OK St has very lax requirements which let kids get in state tuition if they meet certain easy academic requirements.  Besides them I don't know of anyone who has easy requirements for academic schollys.  One of the main reasons wrestlers with outstanding academics(GPAs and Test scores)are so fought over is they are the only ones who can get into the ivy/academies(Navy, Air Force, etc.)  and regular schools know they won't have to spend all athletic scholarship on them and will get help on the academic schools side.

[Ty Clark]

There are a lot of nuances with counting the 9.9 when kids are getting partial scholarships and receive aid from other sources. Basically, if a kid gets any athletic scholarship, he becomes a counter, and all scholarships/financial aid he receives counts toward the 9.9 scholarship limit, regardless of the source. There are exemptions for academic scholarships given by the school if they are based on GPA/Class Rank/ACT/SAT scores, but only if they are given to all students. (I think Pell Grants are exempted, as well.)

Here's how it works... Say the cost of attendance is $40k. A wrestler is given a 25% wrestling scholarship, so the athletic department is on the hook for $10k. The wrestler was also awarded a $20,000 scholarship (or 50% of COA) for winning a spelling bee in high school. The wrestler now counts as .75 of a scholarship against the 9.9 limit, even though only .25 is actually a wrestling scholarship. Conversely, a walk-on who gets a $50k scholarship doesn't count against the 9.9 limit, as he is not a counter. (Basketball and Football are different--- any kid who is recruited (talked to) is a counter, regardless of receiving an athletic scholarship.)

[bigoil]

There are a lot of nuances with counting the 9.9 when kids are getting partial scholarships and receive aid from other sources. Basically, if a kid gets any athletic scholarship, he becomes a counter, and all scholarships/financial aid he receives counts toward the 9.9 scholarship limit, regardless of the source. There are exemptions for academic scholarships given by the school if they are based on GPA/Class Rank/ACT/SAT scores, but only if they are given to all students. (I think Pell Grants are exempted, as well.)

Here's how it works... Say the cost of attendance is $40k. A wrestler is given a 25% wrestling scholarship, so the athletic department is on the hook for $10k. The wrestler was also awarded a $20,000 scholarship (or 50% of COA) for winning a spelling bee in high school. The wrestler now counts as .75 of a scholarship against the 9.9 limit, even though only .25 is actually a wrestling scholarship. Conversely, a walk-on who gets a $50k scholarship doesn't count against the 9.9 limit, as he is not a counter. (Basketball and Football are different--- any kid who is recruited (talked to) is a counter, regardless of receiving an athletic scholarship.)

Very interesting, disturbing and obviously over complicated but I'm sure it is there to prevent some booster from giving the $20K spelling bee scholly or prom float decorating scholly.

[littleguy301]

Just some rumor mill thoughts and since Ben is on here talking about his choices I have to ask this.

Ben,,,,,during your recruiting was Cole Konrad pitted against you in the battle for some scholly money?

No insults but I always thought it was Cole Konrad instead of Wunnicke that was battling Ben for the 1/2 scholly?

Correct me if I am wrong or you dont have to answer that if it is personal.

[littleguy301]

I believe wrestling is completly different than most of the other D1 sports.

I personally feel that it is the coach that makes the recruitment more than a football coach. Meaning, in football your for the most part buying into the program that the coach may or may not have built. In wrestling I believe the wrestler has to feel very comfortable with the coach in order to achieve the best for the wrestler and the team. If there is no connection with the coach in wrestling, I believe it is a situation for a poor devolpment for the wrestler and the program.

[benaskren]

No that would be false.  I was made a concrete offer by UW don't know anything about battling anyone for it.  Cole Konrad and I were good friends and still are, we were never fighting over anything except a team national title and a hodge our senior year.  He got the team title and I got the Hodge, I would trade him if he accepted:)

[littleguy301]

thanks Ben,,,,,,glad to clear up a rumor

[Dale Einerson]

No that would be false.  I was made a concrete offer by UW don't know anything about battling anyone for it.  Cole Konrad and I were good friends and still are, we were never fighting over anything except a team national title and a hodge our senior year.  He got the team title and I got the Hodge, I would trade him if he accepted:)

And Ben, what a great answer...

[wrestlemania]

"I swear it is Barry's job until he wants to give it up."

Yeah it is and you have been told why this is so. So either deal with it or move on, one or the other. It's up to you.

I agree the right kind of person can make significant changes to improve UW's fortunes but such persons don't grow on trees and they're not going to come to UW unless they have assurances they can implement what they want to do without some administrator telling them they only have volunteer assistants for so many hours in the wrestling room or that certain athletes can't get in due to grades or the fact there's no sugar daddy out there willing to spend millions on the program.

What's needed now is planning for the AD, After Davis. Improving high school wrestling in Wisconsin, increasing the booster club, increasing support and visibility around the state. This is something the high school coaches,  fan groups and the UW assistant coaches can do so that the job can become attractive to whomever would follow Davis.

Barry is what he is and also not going anywhere, not while Alvarez is AD. So the key is to look five to 10 years down the road and envision where you want the program to be at so when the change occurs the new coach has everything in place to be successful. Because even if you made a change today, you wouldn't get the kind of coach you wanted because no one at that caliber and experience would take the job and the level of success wouldn't be there, not right away. They wouldn't take the job, it would be too limiting for them to work with. Much has to change besides just coaching.

[woody53]

We need to also be aware of the time after both Barry's are gone. Barry A. is close to retiring. While we might not like some of the situations now. This is Wisconsin. And we all know how things can change in a New York minute once both are gone. Be thankful for what Wisconsin Sports has now.

[hammer]

No that would be false.  I was made a concrete offer by UW don't know anything about battling anyone for it.  Cole Konrad and I were good friends and still are, we were never fighting over anything except a team national title and a hodge our senior year.  He got the team title and I got the Hodge, I would trade him if he accepted:)

What an awesome reply! Being a 4X finalist and coming on the forum and answering questions like that is truely good for the sport and pretty fun to read.

[Jimmy]

That is a very good point woody ,be careful what you wish for you might get it. And yes things may get worse before they get better. But to do nothing imo is not the answer either.