Wisconsin Wrestlers earning ALL American during Barry's tenure

[Dale Einerson]

Money, money, money.  Common knowledge Cael got handed one million dollars from boosters to move from Ames to Happy Valley.

Stop making stuff up. Provide a link to support this.

$175k
http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-wrestl/spec-rel/082212aac.html

[hammen]

Angry Fish - that's his salary paid by PSU, not the NLWC. The NLWC funding is how they landed Cael. They also have very nice, new facilities. Where do you think that money came from? As many know, we had an upgrade of our wrestling facilities at UW - and I don't think the UW paid a dime for it. All donor funded. Other programs just have much more of it, which is allowing them to separate themselves.

[Barou]

We have to remember Barry is working at a University with high academic standards so having crowned 4 champs in is career is impressive.... Cornell has crowned 12 champs in that same time.... oops... their team has 8 top 5 finishes in that time... we have 2? or just the 1?

There you go with facts again.  But there's always a reason.  It's Cornell, they have better facilities.  It's Penn State, they have Cael.  It's Iowa, tradition and fan base.  It's Minnesota, they get summer jobs working J Rob camps.  It's Ohio State, recruiting hot bed.  It's Oklahoma State, easier academics.  It's Michigan, new facilities.  It's Missouri, (not sure what their advantage is).  Wisconsin though, wow the hurdles.  Academic standards to deal with.  Facilities are poor.  Roster limits.  Ask any supporter why another program is better and you will get a reason.  At the same time they will sell how great UW is to recruits.  If there are so many disadvantages at UW then it would be an injustice to try and sell the program to a Hall or a Breske.

[npope]

We have to remember Barry is working at a University with high academic standards so having crowned 4 champs in is career is impressive.... Cornell has crowned 12 champs in that same time.... oops... their team has 8 top 5 finishes in that time... we have 2? or just the 1?

There you go with facts again.  But there's always a reason.  It's Cornell, they have better facilities.  It's Penn State, they have Cael.  It's Iowa, tradition and fan base.  It's Minnesota, they get summer jobs working J Rob camps.  It's Ohio State, recruiting hot bed.  It's Oklahoma State, easier academics.  It's Michigan, new facilities.  It's Missouri, (not sure what their advantage is).  Wisconsin though, wow the hurdles.  Academic standards to deal with.  Facilities are poor.  Roster limits.  Ask any supporter why another program is better and you will get a reason.  At the same time they will sell how great UW is to recruits.  If there are so many disadvantages at UW then it would be an injustice to try and sell the program to a Hall or a Breske.

I am a little confused here, Barou. At the outset of your post you enumerate all of the variables that might go into building a great program, e.g., facilities, tradition, great coaching, easier admissions, absence of roster limits, summer jobs for wrestlers, etc., and then you call them excuses proffered by Davis supporters. Forgive me, but you just made the case as to why the Badgers don't compete with those elite teams. I would argue that those aren't excuses at all; improve on multiple of those variables (which includes coaching changes) and I dare say you would see a change in program results. Just sayin'

[Barou]

We have to remember Barry is working at a University with high academic standards so having crowned 4 champs in is career is impressive.... Cornell has crowned 12 champs in that same time.... oops... their team has 8 top 5 finishes in that time... we have 2? or just the 1?

There you go with facts again.  But there's always a reason.  It's Cornell, they have better facilities.  It's Penn State, they have Cael.  It's Iowa, tradition and fan base.  It's Minnesota, they get summer jobs working J Rob camps.  It's Ohio State, recruiting hot bed.  It's Oklahoma State, easier academics.  It's Michigan, new facilities.  It's Missouri, (not sure what their advantage is).  Wisconsin though, wow the hurdles.  Academic standards to deal with.  Facilities are poor.  Roster limits.  Ask any supporter why another program is better and you will get a reason.  At the same time they will sell how great UW is to recruits.  If there are so many disadvantages at UW then it would be an injustice to try and sell the program to a Hall or a Breske.

I am a little confused here, Barou. At the outset of your post you enumerate all of the variables that might go into building a great program, e.g., facilities, tradition, great coaching, easier admissions, absence of roster limits, summer jobs for wrestlers, etc., and then you call them excuses proffered by Davis supporters. Forgive me, but you just made the case as to why the Badgers don't compete with those elite teams. I would argue that those aren't excuses at all; improve on multiple of those variables (which includes coaching changes) and I dare say you would see a change in program results. Just sayin'

Because the head coaches there MADE it happen.  Brian Smith at Missouri inherited way less than BD.  He is leading the charge for a team that periodically is in the conversation to win a national title (something BD has never done.  Not once in 20 years has he had a team where they were legitimate contenders.  J Rob took over a very poor Minnesota program.  Their facilities are poor, probably worse than Wisconsin's and somehow they work through it.  The advantages they have are what HE worked for, nothing was given to him at UM and he made some waves with his administration over the years so he could move his program forward.  Rob Koll has had to spend more time marketing, promoting, fund raising, soliciting, etc....than actually coaching, probably to his dismay because it was necessary to accelerate his program.  Do I think UW can reach the heights of Iowa, OK State, or PSU?  Not really.  I do, however, believe with the right head coach they have the ability to accomplish what Missouri and Cornell are accomplishing.

[hammen]

The generous donation of 8 figures in 2003 at Cornell was done by an extremely wealthy alum of the program, who probably donated to the club and wrote off much of it in filing his taxes that year. Koll had very little to nothing to do with that donation or that particular donor's interest in the program. He did however have to spend that money (must be rough). Koll began coaching somewhere when Barry did, and didn't really achieve success until 2005, after the wealth of $$,$$$,$$$ came in.

[hammen]

I told you - check the forum archive on themat.com or ask one of their insiders (TBar is a good one). They will confirm, no doubt.

[Numbers]

I told you - check the forum archive on themat.com or ask one of their insiders (TBar is a good one). They will confirm, no doubt.

Oh, so this (Tbar) can confirm Cael was handed a check for a cool million.....I searched the forum archive, I couldn't find anything on it?

There was no million dollar check per Cael.

http://www.caelsanderson.com/blog/go-cyclones-and-go-lions/

[lizard king]

So..... in stead of arguing over how much other coaches get paid, or we can't win with out money...does anyone care to give suggestions on what the badgers need to do to get more AA's?

I do not know the coaches well but I have had a lot of experience with coaching and D1 coaches.  I sometimes feel that they get too caught up in the recruit and forget about development.  I get that recruiting is crucial, but it doesn't do a lot of good if you can't develop the guys you have. (unless of course you recruit guys that win with or with out you).

It sounds like some people on here really like Barry because he took a personal interest and helped them develop.  If he is good at that I would say please keep him.  Some feel opposite? But, apparently they need to be better at it, or the assistants need to do more, or they need to recruit guys that they can get, and that are also able to grow?

I don't know, like I said, but I would be interested to know what the badgers have to do to get more All Americans (other than excuses and we need money.) I can tell you what some other programs need, but Wisconsin? (maybe a better strength program?)

[Barou]

So..... in stead of arguing over how much other coaches get paid, or we can't win with out money...does anyone care to give suggestions on what the badgers need to do to get more AA's?

I do not know the coaches well but I have had a lot of experience with coaching and D1 coaches.  I sometimes feel that they get too caught up in the recruit and forget about development.  I get that recruiting is crucial, but it doesn't do a lot of good if you can't develop the guys you have. (unless of course you recruit guys that win with or with out you).

It sounds like some people on here really like Barry because he took a personal interest and helped them develop.  If he is good at that I would say please keep him.  Some feel opposite? But, apparently they need to be better at it, or the assistants need to do more, or they need to recruit guys that they can get, and that are also able to grow?

I don't know, like I said, but I would be interested to know what the badgers have to do to get more All Americans (other than excuses and we need money.) I can tell you what some other programs need, but Wisconsin? (maybe a better strength program?)

Set a goal to place better than 3rd at the Navy Classic.  Focus on "next year".  Explain how the wrestlers that are successful have "bought in" and how the struggling wrestlers "didn't buy in".  Don't disclose why a wrestler is not in a line-up or in a tournament, make sure the fans know that it's "in house".  Bring in top recruits for football games and then get a verbal commitment.  Wait 6 months for the commitment to change but "it's not a big deal".  Just young adults changing their minds.

[hammen]

Barou just has this whole thing nailed down! Man I really hope you are sharing your wisdom with the big boss upstairs on the 5th floor.

[Houndhead]

to put things into perspective

if we count their career, in 2013 the Penn St roster had more championships than Barry in 20+ years and probably near 30-35 AA's by the time they all graduate.

so about 30 wrestlers from 1 team did as much or more than BD has done with around 250 wrestlers through his career.  

oh... and their coach has been there 5-6 years and they where about average/slightly below average (like us) before he arrived.

An absolute credit to Penn State for going after Cael.  That is a passionate wrestling community.  They made the change and went after Cael because their athletic department expected more from their wrestling community.  What they had was still better than BD results but they expected more.

I wish UW would do the same with Ben Askren.

[charteroak1]

Man, I'd hate to be a coach of one of the 52 teams represented at the NCAA's this past year that placed lower than the Badgers.  They might need one of those El Chapo tunnels to get out of town.

[lizard king]

Actually I think it depends on your view of success.  I know several teams that being top 20 is a very good year.  Having an AA is a very good year.  Being top ten would be unbelievable.  Those teams, however, are not big 10.  If you are a big ten team and you want all the excitement and hype that goes with that, then you also have higher expectations.  So, yes, if you are in the big 10 and you placed lower than the badgers, you may want to get out of town?

[Ty Clark]

1) Wisconsin high school wrestling needs to get better... There's a reason Cael went to PSU, and it's not like he was leaving a wrestling desert.

2) Top Wisconsin wrestlers need to be willing to stay home at the UW for little to no scholarship money (i.e.: A wrestler getting a full-ride offer from another school has to be willing to take 25% from the UW, or one offered 50% out-of-state needs to be willing to walk on at the UW).

In-state tuition is relatively cheap, and scholarship money stretches and has a bigger impact on overall cost for out-of-state recruits. Too many kids will take small 20-50% offers and pay more overall instead of walking on at the UW. (Is it a pride thing, just so they can tell everyone they got a scholarship?) Depth in the lineup comes from in-state wrestlers not taking much out of the pot, so it can be spread out to more out-of-state wrestlers. The more "feelers" you have out there, the more likely you are going to strike a rich pipeline. A Minnesota (Apple Valley) pipeline would be huge for the UW. Tuition reciprocity would be a good selling point to get kids when scholarship money is tight.

Kids growing up wanting nothing more than to wrestle for the Badgers will have a harder time saying no to whoever it is coaching UW, even if the offer is not up to par with others. Not enough parents/HS coaches encourage their wrestlers to follow Badgers wrestling. Tell your kids when they're on TV. Take them to a dual if you're close enough. Put up a Badgers poster in your wrestling room... take down the Minnesota ones. Buy them Wisconsin Wrestling T's. I see a lot more 3rd graders wearing Iowa Wrestling shirts at tournaments than Wisconsin shirts. I'm guessing they didn't buy them for themselves. Heck, don't allow the vendor to sell any Iowa/UM/etc. gear at your tournament. Make your kids/wrestlers grow up wanting nothing more than to wrestle for the Badgers! They should hate the Hawkeyes as much as you conditioned them to hate the Chicago Bears.

Everyone is so quick to blame the guy on top, whether it's a sports team, workplace or the government. It's always the coach's, your boss's, or Scott Walker's fault...