Wisconsin Wrestling Online

Should youth wrestles cut weight?

This is a loaded question. By using the word "Cut", it makes it a negative. Should a wrestler"Manage their Weight"? Yes. That is called "Discipline".

The question is self incriminating to the wrestling community and actually adds to the perception of some folks that wrestlers are unhealthy in thier choices....

Some wrestlers and some parents are unhealthy in their choices. It's a legit question, but wording needs to be clarified.

Quote from: woody53 on April 07, 2015, 05:39:03 PM
This is a loaded question. By using the word "Cut", it makes it a negative. Should a wrestler"Manage their Weight"? Yes. That is called "Discipline".

I see it as clear.

Youth = before HS
Cut = lose weight from your existing weight.

Depending on the age of the child, most kids grow 5-10# per year and if you maintain weight for a four month season, you are losing weight already because you'd have expected to gain 1.66 to 3.33 # in growth from December to the end of March. If you qualify for nationals, now you maintain that weight for a couple more months depending on the organization.

In youth,,,simply watching what you eat is good enough. Meaning cut out the chips, po, ice cream, unhealthy snacks and subsitute a healthy choice of water, fruits and veggies. I have found that kids by just following this simple plan for a week or 2 will lose more weight than they planned.

High School,,,,,I prefer to say weigh management. Meaning the same thing as above but for a season of your sport. With the combo of some good hard work outs and good healthy choices at the dinner table, I have found out that most wrestlers will be able to maintain their weight at the weight class they want and are still able to eat.

Skipping meals especially in the youth or the first year or two of high school is not needed. You need your proper fuel to be able to preform and grow as a young athlete.

From one who cut (and cut hard), I can say that that aspect of the sport is absolutely unsavory and needs significant oversight to ensure that it isn't happening. It is the single biggest black eye for the sport. That said, "weight management" can have a variety of different meanings might not be bad at all, depending on what the kid is actually doing.

So, that's the rub, every kid/situation is different - no one policy fits all situations. All I can say is that rapid and significant weight loss, the self-denial of even modest food intake, dehydration for days at a time, etc., are simply evil and need to be eradicated in the sport.

I don't even like "weight management" at the youth level.  It may not be completely healthy but mentally it has a huge impact on wrestlers.
1) It teaches youth wrestlers automatically that the lighter you weigh the better you are.  This will just lead to more "weight cutting" as they get older
2) "Weight management" involves sacrifice and discipline that is really not needed at a youth level and is different from all other sports.  It makes the sport less fun possibly leading to a wrestler stopping the sport and if that wrestler and parent shares what they are doing with other kids and parents, it is less likely that they will join our sport.
3) Everything should be about wrestling and having fun.  Even when "managing" a focus becomes on what the wrestler weighs.  This is not fun for the wrestler or the parents.   A youth wrestler should never have to worry about what he weighs as the parents should pick a weight class that makes that possible
4) Why do we "manage" weight?  Is it to improve success?  Then that is another fault in what the focus of a youth wrestlers is.  Focus should be on simply learning and getting better and not on doing something that might help them win one match or tourney that really means nothing in their journey to becoming a high school wrestler.

Our youth should always be focused on growing and getting stronger while having lots of FUN!  It is not a health thing with "weight management" by simply saying you are eating better.   Then why not do that year round.  If you change things only during wrestling season that it is attached to wrestling in the wrestlers mind as well as his friends and that hurts wrestling in the long term

Just my thoughts.  Think about what it does mentally even more than physcially

I would also add the majority of youth wrestlers weighing 70-100# don't exactly have much weight to manage, especially once they are in 6th grade. They are burning all their calories up each day.

Quote from: DocWrestling on April 08, 2015, 08:00:36 AM
I don't even like "weight management" at the youth level.  It may not be completely healthy but mentally it has a huge impact on wrestlers.
1) It teaches youth wrestlers automatically that the lighter you weigh the better you are.  This will just lead to more "weight cutting" as they get older
2) "Weight management" involves sacrifice and discipline that is really not needed at a youth level and is different from all other sports.  It makes the sport less fun possibly leading to a wrestler stopping the sport and if that wrestler and parent shares what they are doing with other kids and parents, it is less likely that they will join our sport.
3) Everything should be about wrestling and having fun.  Even when "managing" a focus becomes on what the wrestler weighs.  This is not fun for the wrestler or the parents.   A youth wrestler should never have to worry about what he weighs as the parents should pick a weight class that makes that possible
4) Why do we "manage" weight?  Is it to improve success?  Then that is another fault in what the focus of a youth wrestlers is.  Focus should be on simply learning and getting better and not on doing something that might help them win one match or tourney that really means nothing in their journey to becoming a high school wrestler.

Our youth should always be focused on growing and getting stronger while having lots of FUN!  It is not a health thing with "weight management" by simply saying you are eating better.   Then why not do that year round.  If you change things only during wrestling season that it is attached to wrestling in the wrestlers mind as well as his friends and that hurts wrestling in the long term

Just my thoughts.  Think about what it does mentally even more than physcially

I talk to my youth kids (middle school) about eating healthy choices. Cutting down the junk food, chips, pop, candy and so on. While I do not preach to fully elimate those choices, I stress look to other forms of food to eat.

If there goal is to wrestle a certain weight come regional time, I would like them to tell me that goal in January and then you have 2 months to work for it. A couple of pounds no big deal and usually if those said wrestlers eat better choices and along with good hard practices they reach that goal with in those 2 months with out really even noticing the change in anything.

I call that weight management.

I agree with bigoil about most kids that in that weight range of 70 to 100 pounds usually dont have much to lose and just stress to eat healthy. Heck I had a couple of kids that gained weight during those times eating better choices.

Should I say eating healthy choices is better than weight management?

Diets are a strange thing to say the least. I think if we educate kids/wrestlers about eating better choices I believe "cutting" would be an outdated term.

I say this because for the most part I dont see many high school age wrestlers making proper diet choices. Their diets usually have pop, candy, high fat food and such in it. Start changing some of the eating patterns and you notice those said wrestlers start to lose some weight without losing muscle and endurance.

Just my 2 cents.

Teaching kids to eat healthy to improve performance is awesome but the emphasis should be that they are doing it year round.  Most kids should gain weight and muscle mass when eating healthy, meaning a lot of calories for all the work they are doing but calories that provide a lot of fuel for the body.  Coaches should want the kids to get bigger and stronger.

The problem is that middle school is when the sport loses a lot of kids for a ton of reasons but one obvious one is that they don't need to eat healthy in other sports or by not doing anything.

Personally I teach healthy habits to improve performance in every sport I coach which includes proper nutrition, proper sleep, hydration, and learning to practice and train with maximizing time.  Does no good to not sleep and have a protein shake to feel goo about yourself and then eat at McDonalds and drink sodas or energy drinks.

My main problem is that all this gets associated wrestling as it is the only youth sport that may discuss it and often it is only at certain times of the year like around regionals.

Maybe we should have the same talk about eating healthy but not mention weight.  If they happen to lose weight then fine but hopefully most gain weight.  No youth wrestler should really be lighter at the end of the year than the beginning unless they came in quite overweight

Its just like Tball where you start the young ones batting off a T. Teach them how to cut weight right away, teach them the fundamentals of weight cutting when there 6 years old, let them know that if they want to be any good at this sport they have to cut weight and if there really serious about the sport they should practice weight management all year around. No sense in waiting. It is all about fundamentals!!

Quote from: DocWrestling on April 08, 2015, 11:47:49 AM
Teaching kids to eat healthy to improve performance is awesome but the emphasis should be that they are doing it year round.  Most kids should gain weight and muscle mass when eating healthy, meaning a lot of calories for all the work they are doing but calories that provide a lot of fuel for the body.  Coaches should want the kids to get bigger and stronger.

The problem is that middle school is when the sport loses a lot of kids for a ton of reasons but one obvious one is that they don't need to eat healthy in other sports or by not doing anything.

Personally I teach healthy habits to improve performance in every sport I coach which includes proper nutrition, proper sleep, hydration, and learning to practice and train with maximizing time.  Does no good to not sleep and have a protein shake to feel goo about yourself and then eat at McDonalds and drink sodas or energy drinks.

My main problem is that all this gets associated wrestling as it is the only youth sport that may discuss it and often it is only at certain times of the year like around regionals.

Maybe we should have the same talk about eating healthy but not mention weight.  If they happen to lose weight then fine but hopefully most gain weight.  No youth wrestler should really be lighter at the end of the year than the beginning unless they came in quite overweight

My daughter competes in both Basketball and track...almost year around.  Her coaches at the high school level as well as AAU level teach these same nutritional practices...its not just wrestling....but wrestling has weight classes thus wrestlers will always be working to make one weight or another.  The problem I see is as a community we don't want to admit that this is a part of our sport.  We want to kick it under the carpet and pretend it doesn't happen on our team. It does!!!!  It doesn't matter if we cut weight classes add weight classes or stay the same...it will happen! A better idea would be to face it head on and teach good weight management....not ignore it and let wrestlers make weight any way they want.  Some coaches (and I am sure there are some that do) need to step up and not allow this drastic cutting that goes on during the season.  I have to laugh when after state wrestlers go wrestle at nationals and are wrestling two weight or even three weight classes up from their state weight...and then someone says how that wrestler is wrestling up weight classes....no he is not he weighed in at the same weight everyone else did at that weight class...he was cutting for state and chose not to cut for nationals.  Your not going to eliminate cutting but we sure can do a better job of educating proper weight management.

I wonder how many parents who have kids beyond the youth level see the value of "cutting weight".  Or, if a lot of those parents are like me, and think any activity unrelated to building a child's enthusiasm, skills and interest for the sport of wrestling, is wasted effort.

Lg must you kick me when I'm down? Cut out ice cream?  OUCH

Quote from: aarons23 on April 08, 2015, 12:10:02 PM

Quote from: DocWrestling on April 08, 2015, 11:47:49 AM
Teaching kids to eat healthy to improve performance is awesome but the emphasis should be that they are doing it year round.  Most kids should gain weight and muscle mass when eating healthy, meaning a lot of calories for all the work they are doing but calories that provide a lot of fuel for the body.  Coaches should want the kids to get bigger and stronger.

The problem is that middle school is when the sport loses a lot of kids for a ton of reasons but one obvious one is that they don't need to eat healthy in other sports or by not doing anything.

Personally I teach healthy habits to improve performance in every sport I coach which includes proper nutrition, proper sleep, hydration, and learning to practice and train with maximizing time.  Does no good to not sleep and have a protein shake to feel goo about yourself and then eat at McDonalds and drink sodas or energy drinks.

My main problem is that all this gets associated wrestling as it is the only youth sport that may discuss it and often it is only at certain times of the year like around regionals.

Maybe we should have the same talk about eating healthy but not mention weight.  If they happen to lose weight then fine but hopefully most gain weight.  No youth wrestler should really be lighter at the end of the year than the beginning unless they came in quite overweight

My daughter competes in both Basketball and track...almost year around.  Her coaches at the high school level as well as AAU level teach these same nutritional practices...its not just wrestling....but wrestling has weight classes thus wrestlers will always be working to make one weight or another.  The problem I see is as a community we don't want to admit that this is a part of our sport.  We want to kick it under the carpet and pretend it doesn't happen on our team. It does!!!!  It doesn't matter if we cut weight classes add weight classes or stay the same...it will happen! A better idea would be to face it head on and teach good weight management....not ignore it and let wrestlers make weight any way they want.  Some coaches (and I am sure there are some that do) need to step up and not allow this drastic cutting that goes on during the season.  I have to laugh when after state wrestlers go wrestle at nationals and are wrestling two weight or even three weight classes up from their state weight...and then someone says how that wrestler is wrestling up weight classes....no he is not he weighed in at the same weight everyone else did at that weight class...he was cutting for state and chose not to cut for nationals.  Your not going to eliminate cutting but we sure can do a better job of educating proper weight management.

I agree that as a community we don't want to acknowledge the reality of the issue.  You bring up the weight difference at the HS school level from state to nationals, check out the difference from youth folkstyle state to freestyle state.  You will see that there are kids cutting almost 10% & in some cases more, of their body weight in the lowest weight classes.   

A follow up to the above topic.

Should high school kids manage lose weight during the off-season(not high school)?? or should they wrestler at their normal weight for the freestyle/greco series?
I think their bodies need time to grow and recuperate from a high school season.

Quote from: woody53 on April 07, 2015, 05:39:03 PM
This is a loaded question. By using the word "Cut", it makes it a negative. Should a wrestler"Manage their Weight"? Yes. That is called "Discipline".

+1  I agree.  Our current system is designed to help with that.  If people want to manage their weight, then there is the structure and oversight to support it.  If they choose not to manage their weight, then they can choose that path, but the current system limits the potential for extreme "cutting."  Some folks will still try to game the system, but at least the opportunity for a healthy path is available.  No matter what we have in place, some people will make poor choices, though, which is unfortunate.  Personally, I observed that Wisconsin's weight management system provided a good incentive for my son to maintain a healthy weight throughout the off-season, via proper nutrition, hydration, and exercise habits.  His junior and senior years, he took his first fat test at (slightly less than) the weight he would be wrestling, with the option to move down later in the year; he had been "walking around" at that weight for several months, already.

Quote from: 3wrestle on April 08, 2015, 05:41:11 PM

Quote from: aarons23 on April 08, 2015, 12:10:02 PM

Quote from: DocWrestling on April 08, 2015, 11:47:49 AM
Teaching kids to eat healthy to improve performance is awesome but the emphasis should be that they are doing it year round.  Most kids should gain weight and muscle mass when eating healthy, meaning a lot of calories for all the work they are doing but calories that provide a lot of fuel for the body.  Coaches should want the kids to get bigger and stronger.

The problem is that middle school is when the sport loses a lot of kids for a ton of reasons but one obvious one is that they don't need to eat healthy in other sports or by not doing anything.

Personally I teach healthy habits to improve performance in every sport I coach which includes proper nutrition, proper sleep, hydration, and learning to practice and train with maximizing time.  Does no good to not sleep and have a protein shake to feel goo about yourself and then eat at McDonalds and drink sodas or energy drinks.

My main problem is that all this gets associated wrestling as it is the only youth sport that may discuss it and often it is only at certain times of the year like around regionals.

Maybe we should have the same talk about eating healthy but not mention weight.  If they happen to lose weight then fine but hopefully most gain weight.  No youth wrestler should really be lighter at the end of the year than the beginning unless they came in quite overweight

My daughter competes in both Basketball and track...almost year around.  Her coaches at the high school level as well as AAU level teach these same nutritional practices...its not just wrestling....but wrestling has weight classes thus wrestlers will always be working to make one weight or another.  The problem I see is as a community we don't want to admit that this is a part of our sport.  We want to kick it under the carpet and pretend it doesn't happen on our team. It does!!!!  It doesn't matter if we cut weight classes add weight classes or stay the same...it will happen! A better idea would be to face it head on and teach good weight management....not ignore it and let wrestlers make weight any way they want.  Some coaches (and I am sure there are some that do) need to step up and not allow this drastic cutting that goes on during the season.  I have to laugh when after state wrestlers go wrestle at nationals and are wrestling two weight or even three weight classes up from their state weight...and then someone says how that wrestler is wrestling up weight classes....no he is not he weighed in at the same weight everyone else did at that weight class...he was cutting for state and chose not to cut for nationals.  Your not going to eliminate cutting but we sure can do a better job of educating proper weight management.

We listen to people all the time oh so and so walks around at this weight..... except a ref sees those same kids check their weight on say Friday evening after a day of wrestling to see how far they are over for Saturday. Then you sit near fans from those schools and they tell you what those kids walk around weighing.
Ex club coaches telling other coaches so and so has had his kids vomiting ect to make weight.
How about the truth...
Here it is our kid was at the youth state tournament watching his brother we ate out multiple times and then at the crap food served at the Alliant center.
Our son likes to indulge and be like "normal" kids. Weighed 142 on sunday after eating out all weekend. We do not deny him during the off season. He can gain 15 to 17 lbs after the HS state tournament ends while practicing only 2-3 days per week. Then had to "make weight" by Thurs. morning while on spring break... best option for him was 138 unless he was going to starve and not drink fluids
So the other thing is there is a difference between walk around weight and a competitive weight. We were at the national tournament our son wrestled up from his state weight. Since were on the truth he did not miss a meal over the season and making 126 was fairly easy for him. Yes he wrestled up from his competitive weight yep they all weighed in on thursday morning at 138 or less but come Thursday evening and Friday they were most definitely not the same. Same thing goes for Fargo especially for the placing rounds.... If our kid is not at his competitive weight for Fargo we will better spend our money on camps.
What works for our son is not what works for yours. Parents and coaches need to find what works for there wrestlers.
Will our son cut/manage his weight  at the direction of his CLUB coaches-YES
Come Fargo time will he cut 15 lbs-Possibly
So we can rosy sunshine weight management/cutting weight or we can tell the truth and that is our kids truth. While at his competition weight he is quicker lighter on his feet ect. Did he feel heavy footed/ slower while wrestling up-yep.
So that's our truth

Do not even know how to respond to this?

I get what Doc and Aaron are saying about the importance of teaching and enforcing healthy eating and weight management practices.  Yes, wrestling seems to be the only sport with which these issues are associated, in the public's minds, but it is important for all kids - athletes or not.  Our daughter only competed in track and she also focused on healthy eating and exercise habits.  From experience, she learned the best weight range for her performance and sought to maintain that target.  For football, our nephew found (and trained toward) a specific weight that allowed him to sustain the power and leverage needed in the defensive line, while maximizing his foot speed to rush the QB. 

As for the P.R. problem for wrestling, because of the weight cutting issues, I really don't see how we can fix it as long as those in the sport (and/or their families) choose to take shortcuts and then continually talk about it.  However, doesn't that parallel issues that sports many other sports reportedly have with steroids, doping, etc.? 

Weight cutting should be saved for adults. There is no reason to cut weight as a child. The only thing kids should be doing are eating healthy and as often as their bodies demand. They should never deprive their bodies of nutrition. Biggest regret I ever had as a young wrestler was spending time and effort managing my weight than getting better and stronger. Once you're an adult, you're developed and at a much different maturation level. You already have the love for the sport to be able to put in the work to manage weight and get better together. If my children decide to wrestle, the only weight management allowed will be eating healthy and allowing their bodies to grow.

Quote from: hammen on April 08, 2015, 09:30:14 PM
Weight cutting should be saved for adults. There is no reason to cut weight as a child. The only thing kids should be doing are eating healthy and as often as their bodies demand. They should never deprive their bodies of nutrition. Biggest regret I ever had as a young wrestler was spending time and effort managing my weight than getting better and stronger. Once you're an adult, you're developed and at a much different maturation level. You already have the love for the sport to be able to put in the work to manage weight and get better together. If my children decide to wrestle, the only weight management allowed will be eating healthy and allowing their bodies to grow.

I like how you think.  Getting stronger should be part of managing ones weight in a healthy manner.  Maintaining a higher muscle mass helps you burn more calories at rest.  Eat right and train right to find the proper balance...  and exercise enough patience to let kids mature at their own rates, physically and emotionally.  Bet you'll make a great sports dad, regardless of the sports your kids embrace.

Quote from: Jimmy on April 08, 2015, 01:17:46 PM
Lg must you kick me when I'm down? Cut out ice cream?  OUCH

Not sure if you need to be cutting to get to any weight. Perfection is one word that comes to my mind when I think of your wrestling shape.

Proper training and proper eating should be the focal point of devolping a good athlete. Sadely in my area wrestling is about the only sport that anyone talks proper eating habits.

by the way, I talk about this in January and regionals is in March.

Yes through proper practice so kids do lose weight during the season if only 8 weeks. Some kids gain weight, some stay the same. Every kid is different. Some hit a growth spurt (had one last year 10 pounds in 6 weeks) had others lose 5 pounds in a period of 6 weeks. Strange it is but when your talking 11-15 years olds anything can happen.

Eating right should be talked about in all sports through out middle school and high school.

The entire weight issue associated with wrestling comes from the mind set that if you weigh less but have the same strength as two weight classes above you are at an advantage.

There are guidelines for healthy weight based on body mass index but even those are so erroneous and broad they lack the accuracy to determine an individual's healthy weight index. Allot of variables like bone size and density. This frankly is a science in itself but any decent respecting parent that has any interaction with a medical Proffessional will be told they are overweight. But it is sound as general rule when height age and fat percentage is considered?

Here is the thing as a Nation we are very overweight and it is epidemic amongst school age children the crap they consume and the unhealthy inactive lifestyle they participate in is just horrifying at times. Wrestlers are among the healthiest and weight balanced school age kids there are. I for one am sick and tired of all the criticism it is not as bad as so many uninformed people make it to be. We use sound science for body fat testing and that science may be abused by some so shame on the parents or coaches that allow it. Education just like Aaron said discussion and frank direct conversation about skill vs strength should be part of any training program. Good diet and trust me it is very important and I know most coaches promote healthy weight managment and healthy choices for thier wrestlers. But that coach cannot go home with every kid to make sure they eat right and no regulation other than what is in place can improve on what we already have.

Ramjet, I think you summed that up quite well.   8)