Making a Murderer---Steven Avery--Netflix

[ChargerDad]

I just binge watched the series in the last day..  Having heard the portions of testimony portrayed in the trials of both Avery and Dassey, I could not have voted guilty in either case.  That doesn't mean I am convinced that Avery was innocent, I'm just not sure and the questions regarding the handling of the case raise significant questions in my mind.  As for Dassey, it seems fairly obvious that the investigators coerced a confession out of him.  Watching the video where the investigators manipulated a young man who was 16, but didn't have the emotional maturity of a typical 16 year old, I can't help but feel that he was not treated justly.  I totally get that this whole series has really ben painted from the side of the defendant and portrays law enforcement in a negative light every chance it gets, and I'm not convinced that all the accusations made of the Manitowoc County Sheriffs are true, but there are significant questions as to how evidence was obtained, why things weren't discovered in earlier searches, or some evidence not found at all to confirm recorded testimony admitted as evidence despite being seemingly manipulated.  This series really only leaves me more curious.. I do feel the investigation was botched on several fronts, and that at least some of the investigation was driven by agenda, and full of conflict of interest.. does that mean Avery didn't do it?? I don't know, the series just leaves me more curious than I was before I watched any of it..  The only thing I know for sure is that the legal system didn't handle this system the way they should have.

[H. Hogan]

I'm pretty sure that I could take an 8 week trial and edit it to roughy 6-7 hours of footage and spin it to make anyone look innocent.

[crossface49]

WI Law - The most compensation that a wrongfully convicted person can be awarded is 5,000.00 per year with a max of 25,000. That law was changed after Avery's case (not because) with lawmakers requesting that the maximum be increased to 1,000,000. Avery could have sued for 10 billion dollars and at the end of the day he would have been compensated to the tune of $25,000. Additionally, framing Avery for murder would have no effect on a civil suit for his prior wrongful conviction.
No blood - This was a calculated murder and not a knee jerk reaction. Stop watching CSI and horror films. When there is a crime scene with blood everywhere.....that means that the victim was unrestrained and alive when the assault (shooting, stabbing, etc.) happened. If the victim is fully restrained or unconscious the blood is minimal. If the victim is dead....there is virtually no blood. It's not that hard to make DNA evidence disappear with proper planning. What was Netflix's explanation for the bleach found in the garage and on Dassey's pants (his moms testimony)? Why was Avery's DNA found in her car? Oh! I know...the sheriff's wiped sweat off Avery and planted it there.
How did they get a bullet from Avery's gun when it was in evidence from the beginning? Do you know how hard it is to find a bullet? Do you think that Avery's junk yard garage was empty?
You posted that you didn't think Avery wasn't a bad person because of minor brushes with the law. I know a ton of good people that burned cats when they were young or better yet............. discussed in detail (with a drawing) on plans to build a torture chamber to rape young women. Real nice guy!!
Is the prosecutor a piece of sh**? Absolutely!! That doesn't mean that Avery didn't do it. Just like Mark Furman using the "N word" doesn't mean that OJ was innocent.
Bones in burn barrel......Why would law enforcement move bones into a barrel next to the house. Do you really think that this would make a stronger case? Not to mention that the bones in the gravel pit were never tied to her. Here's an idea....maybe Avery tried burning her in the gravel pit and soon realized that you cant get an open fire hot enough to burn bones. On the flip side you can get a barrel fire hot enough to burn bones. Let us not forget that one of his fellow inmates did testify that Avery also discussed fire as a means to make a body disappear.

[crossface49]

There's a new documentary on the history channel about the discovery of mermaids It's pretty convincing

[jaguarwrestler]

I'm pretty sure that I could take an 8 week trial and edit it to roughy 6-7 hours of footage and spin it to make anyone look innocent.

yeah, but after all evidence was presented only 2 of 12 where ready to vote guilty... 7 not guilty... so was their info also twisted?

only evidence found months later after property was swept over 5 times and found by cops that where not supposed to be on the scene because of conflict of interest.

they basically framed him the first time... who is to say they couldn't do it again?

the problem I have... well one of the many... if that no dna of hers is found in the house... not really possible... and no dna of hers in the garage.... no really possible....outside of a bullet found months later by the county with her dna but they had her dna available. If someone is shot in that garage filled with hundreds of items and not one drop gets on anything then something doesn't add up

we can all agree that most of the video was from the side of the defendant... not all.... but that doesn't change the fact that only 2 where saying guilty after they saw everything... that is less than 20% of the jury.... not to mention the 13th member that was excused also said not guilty... that makes 8 out of 13, are they all foolish as well?

to me they had no hard evidence inside his property, all was found outside the property and all of that was fishy

[ramjet]

For those who think this scumbag is innocent I would like to sit across from that young lady's family and explain why you think so and tell the, because you saw it on a movie edited , creative license film.....

[H. Hogan]

I'm pretty sure that I could take an 8 week trial and edit it to roughy 6-7 hours of footage and spin it to make anyone look innocent.

yeah, but after all evidence was presented only 2 of 12 where ready to vote guilty... 7 not guilty... so was their info also twisted?

This is irrelevant, it doesn't matter what their initial vote was, it matters what their final vote was.
Honestly drive over the calumet county and ask to see all the records, then come back, don't base your opinion on a one sided documentary...and before you ask, yes I watched the whole thing, it raises interesting questions, but I'm not ready to jump on the Steven Avery innocence bandwagon.

[crossface49]

"they basically framed him the first time... who is to say they couldn't do it again?"

First of all....Why would they frame him the first time? Did he have another multimillion dollar law suit?
Second....how exactly did they frame him?
He was picked out of a line up by the victim! Did they pay off the victim to pick him out?
If DNA was around back then he would have been exonerated at the rapist P.O.S. that did it would have been arrested.
In regards to the jury....one charge (mutilating a corpse) was dismissed which is the charge that the jurors were arguing about. They deliberated for 20 hours. That's nothing in a murder trial. According to your theory....in less than a day....7 sequestered jurors were persuaded/coerced to change their not guilty vote to guilty. Come on jaguar...... are you listening to yourself?

[jaguarwrestler]

For those who think this scumbag is innocent I would like to sit across from that young lady's family and explain why you think so and tell the, because you saw it on a movie edited , creative license film.....

8 of 13 jury members heard everything and though not guilty... is it so far fetched to believe he may not be? He very well could be guilty, but much of the evidence is very questionable.

[jaguarwrestler]

heading out, will pick this up next week.

[crossface49]

Angry Fish....I understand that you're frusterated with the interview of Dassey but how does that make law enforcements investigation horrible?
In regards to the interview.....everything was above board. WI state law dictates how interrogations are performed. The highest court in our State has ruled on the Dassey case and ruled that the detectives did nothing wrong.
Now....if you want to argue that Dassey's mental capacity should've played a factor in his sentancing....i'm on board. It's evident that his mental capacity could be easily influenced by a scum bag like Avery.

[easytopin]

Avery is not a good dude, but how and the heck can a guy clean up blood from two large areas but cannot clean the food out of his beard. If the victim was shot 12 times at close range in the head how could there be no evidence lying around. If he were this Mr. wizard of cleaning would he go to all that effort and then leave easily visible blood next to the ignition in the car. And then leave the car parked in the front of the lot near the entrance.

I do believe he was responsible for the disposable part and the streets are safer with him behind bars. I still have an issue with the Manitowoc Sheriff who till this day believes that Avery was responsible for the rape he was later exonerated of even tho DNA says otherwise and the later arrested sexual felon confessed to it. The Sheriff can say what he wants but he didn't even consider even questioning a convicted sex offender right in his own city limits.

[easytopin]

And since some believe you can edit film to show guilty are actually innocent, could they please go back to Philadelphia and change the outcome of the 4th and 27 so we could go back to the super bowl or the non Jerry Rice catch that also cost us a chance at another super bowl appearance.

[crossface49]

Angry Fish....I understand that you're frusterated with the interview of Dassey but how does that make law enforcements investigation horrible?
In regards to the interview.....everything was above board. WI state law dictates how interrogations are performed. The highest court in our State has ruled on the Dassey case and ruled that the detectives did nothing wrong.
Now....if you want to argue that Dassey's mental capacity should've played a factor in his sentancing....i'm on board. It's evident that his mental capacity could be easily influenced by a scum bag like Avery.

There were far to many indiscretions by law enforcement for me to list. The worst was the video taped interrogation of the nephew. Followed up by the manipulation of his written confession by the officer present. That wasn't police work. That was some of most uncomfortable and infuriating video footage I've ever witnessed. Again, there was never a presumption of innocence practiced by law enforcement in either the 1985 sexual assault case, or the dissaperence and murder of Teresa Halbach. The public record states the many errors and suspicious handling of evidence in the Avery murder case. No other potential suspects were even interviewed? Even during the days between when Teresa Halbach went missing, to when a friend of her ex boyfriend found the car on the property, while with the ex boyfriend?

Everything that the defense brought to the courts has already been appealed and all appeals have been exhausted. Are you implying that the court of appeals which has nothing to do with Manitowoc County is in cahoots with the court of appeals?
Who are these other potential suspects? Law enforcement is not going to go on a fishing expedition when all of the evidence points to one person? And they did follow up other leads which is why Dassey was arrested.
What "public record" are you referring to that states the many "errors and suspicious handling of evidence"? Are you referring to the Netflix public record.
Again.....the highest court heard all of this evidence and ruled that the Avery investigation was above board.

[crossface49]

Question: If it is proven that law enforcement either tampered with, or planted evidence that leads to a conviction, what happens? New trail or is the convicted automatically released?

Its up to the judge hearing the evidence that evidence was tampered with....Even if he's released the DA still charge him with the same crime.