We are now 27 days out from the date WIAA has communicated for Regionals. When are we going to hear more information on the plan?
when it is released. ::) ;D
They are working on it. Ref's were already sent availability questionnaire's.
My understanding is email went out to the WWCA about post season. For Division 1 we will have 8 regionals and 8 sectionals with only the winner from each sectional going to state. That is the good news....at least we are having a state if the sports medical advisory approves next week. The bad news is nothing is planned to be realigned. Some sectionals will have 16 teams while others might have as few as 9, based on current teams that have skinfolded. I don't know who or why this was decided since all fall sports realigned based on what schools were going forward. Once again, wrestling seems to be treated different then everyone else.
Hoping I am wrong on this...
Absolutely stupid if only the winner goes on. This is a typical WiAA move.
Can they all retire already.
If ADs and coaches don't push back on this, there is no hope.
IMO...there are people at the WIAA that do not understand wrestling. And some of these people are making decisions for wrestling. In the case of realignment it would mean someone would have to take the time to understand how the current plan doesn't make sense. I wonder if some smart person took the time to suggest a new plan and presented it to the WIAA if they would take that information under consideration.
It is easy to say the WIAA doesn't have their crap together and they ignore wrestling. But has wrestling stepped up and offered a new plan that is supported by the coaches and the ADs? My experinece with the WIAA is they say they do what the ADs direct them to do. The ADs (I have spoken to) say they take direction from the coaches.
So...would it be possible to draft a realignment plan, shoot it off to all D1 coaches (D2 and D3 if realignment is needed as well). Ask for their input. Ask them for their ADs support, Then send the proposed plan to the WIAA. Maybe this has been done already...or maybe we just want to inappropriate term1 about the WIAA and not offer a solution??
I am open to thoughts....
I did get confirmation from Wade that it would be 8 per weight class. What a complete joke. This will be devastating to many great wrestlers.
Quote from: Hayward on January 06, 2021, 11:08:04 AM
My understanding is email went out to the WWCA about post season. For Division 1 we will have 8 regionals and 8 sectionals with only the winner from each sectional going to state. That is the good news....at least we are having a state if the sports medical advisory approves next week. The bad news is nothing is planned to be realigned. Some sectionals will have 16 teams while others might have as few as 9, based on current teams that have skinfolded. I don't know who or why this was decided since all fall sports realigned based on what schools were going forward. Once again, wrestling seems to be treated different then everyone else.
Hoping I am wrong on this...
8 regionals feeding 8 sectionals doesn't make a lot of sense. If you are going to hold a state tournament, taking 2 (or 3 kids D2/D3) doesn't seem like a stretch especially if held in separate locations with limited attendance, it would be the same size as a sectional.
Quote from: Wrestling Novice on January 06, 2021, 12:34:34 PM
I did get confirmation from Wade that it would be 8 per weight class. What a complete joke. This will be devastating to many great wrestlers.
what about D2/3? 8 or will there now be four?
Quote from: Wrestling Novice on January 06, 2021, 12:34:34 PM
I did get confirmation from Wade that it would be 8 per weight class. What a complete joke. This will be devastating to many great wrestlers.
I know it's not ideal, but it's better than nothing.
If you want to cuss, cuss to your friend via text. Talk to your dog, wife, bartender, whatever.
state title contenders still get their shot.
Yea, I'd like 16 in each division to get to state also, but it doesn't seem it'll go that way, so we have to accept that.
Next year should be back to normal, barring any unforeseen apocalypse or other catastrophes
Quote from: bigoil on January 06, 2021, 12:38:17 PM
Quote from: Wrestling Novice on January 06, 2021, 12:34:34 PM
I did get confirmation from Wade that it would be 8 per weight class. What a complete joke. This will be devastating to many great wrestlers.
what about D2/3? 8 or will there now be four?
No specifics other than 8 per weight class for sectionals and state.
Again, a kick to the nether regions of all high school wrestling athletes.
Quote from: bigoil on January 06, 2021, 12:38:17 PM
Quote from: Wrestling Novice on January 06, 2021, 12:34:34 PM
I did get confirmation from Wade that it would be 8 per weight class. What a complete joke. This will be devastating to many great wrestlers.
what about D2/3? 8 or will there now be four?
Better be at least 8. What are they going to do a round robin with the top 4? lol
Quote from: wrastle63 on January 06, 2021, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: bigoil on January 06, 2021, 12:38:17 PM
Quote from: Wrestling Novice on January 06, 2021, 12:34:34 PM
I did get confirmation from Wade that it would be 8 per weight class. What a complete joke. This will be devastating to many great wrestlers.
what about D2/3? 8 or will there now be four?
Better be at least 8. What are they going to do a round robin with the top 4? lol
agreed but there are only 4 sectionals as of now
Quote from: DarkKnight on January 06, 2021, 12:55:51 PM
Quote from: Wrestling Novice on January 06, 2021, 12:34:34 PM
I did get confirmation from Wade that it would be 8 per weight class. What a complete joke. This will be devastating to many great wrestlers.
I know it's not ideal, but it's better than nothing.
If you want to cuss, cuss to your friend via text. Talk to your dog, wife, bartender, whatever.
state title contenders still get their shot.
Yea, I'd like 16 in each division to get to state also, but it doesn't seem it'll go that way, so we have to accept that.
Next year should be back to normal, barring any unforeseen apocalypse or other catastrophes
Better than nothing? Not sure that get 50% support.
This compares to passing with a D. The WIAA is almost failing and some think that is okay.
Quote from: DarkKnight on January 06, 2021, 12:55:51 PM
Quote from: Wrestling Novice on January 06, 2021, 12:34:34 PM
I did get confirmation from Wade that it would be 8 per weight class. What a complete joke. This will be devastating to many great wrestlers.
I know it's not ideal, but it's better than nothing.
If you want to cuss, cuss to your friend via text. Talk to your dog, wife, bartender, whatever.
state title contenders still get their shot.
Yea, I'd like 16 in each division to get to state also, but it doesn't seem it'll go that way, so we have to accept that.
Next year should be back to normal, barring any unforeseen apocalypse or other catastrophes
That's the thing, it doesn't have to be accepted. If there is enough push back, we can get it changed. Think of all the work these kids put in. Isn't it fair to ask that the coaches and ADs fight for the student athlete?
There is no reason why they need to reduce the number of qualifiers. Zero.
The WIAA response has always been that their only job is to crown a champion. They have never mentioned that the experience for all athletes attending state is important which is a travesty.
Sounds like Stoughton sports just got the go ahead to start competing if they can find places outside of Dane County to practice and compete. Another joke that one Dane County Board can have so much power.
Quote from: bigoil on January 06, 2021, 01:02:07 PM
Quote from: wrastle63 on January 06, 2021, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: bigoil on January 06, 2021, 12:38:17 PM
Quote from: Wrestling Novice on January 06, 2021, 12:34:34 PM
I did get confirmation from Wade that it would be 8 per weight class. What a complete joke. This will be devastating to many great wrestlers.
what about D2/3? 8 or will there now be four?
Better be at least 8. What are they going to do a round robin with the top 4? lol
agreed but there are only 4 sectionals as of now
Top 2 from each.
So D2/D3 gets top 2 and D1 gets 1. On top of that we have some Full regionals and Sectionals and a regional with 2 schools and a Sectional with 9 schools. Seems like a lot of thought went into all of this
Is it possible for the WWCA to actually agree on a proposal and fight for the kids???
I guess I just don't believe that they are not going to restructure regionals and sectionals unless all those schools in Dane County and the southeast have said they are going to participate in the postseason.
At some point maybe by January 15th the WIAA has to make all schools announce whether they are participating in postseason. Then they have a week to spread out the teams evenly.
Makes too much sense to have even numbers of teams at regionals and sectionals. I do believe that they will not make any changes due to some sectionals being more stacked with talent than others.
When is the state series then?
I have heard conflicting reports as to when individual state will happen.
Why is it that when the WIAA CLEARLY doesn't understand wrestling at all, thus, why don't they seek advice from the "experts" on how they think a post season should be run...i.e., WWF, USA Wrestling, Coaches Association, etc.?? That is what good leaders do...they don't claim to know everything about everything, they recognize where they may not have depth of knowledge and than bring in the experts to help them make the best decision possible. It is almost as if the WIAA just wants to take the easiest way out without using any sort of common sense. or logic, and then hope people will stop making waves. I think they lean on hoping that most have the attitude like some on here of..."Well it is better than nothing." Again, where is the "fight" in some of you?? The majority of the people know a post season can be run giving the kids all the opportunities they deserve at the same time keeping people at risk and grandpa and grandma safe.
I apologize. This is a dumb question.
Do regionals HAVE to use the typical bracket for regionals?
Quote from: DarkKnight on January 06, 2021, 12:55:51 PM
Quote from: Wrestling Novice on January 06, 2021, 12:34:34 PM
I did get confirmation from Wade that it would be 8 per weight class. What a complete joke. This will be devastating to many great wrestlers.
Next year should be back to normal, barring any unforeseen apocalypse or other catastrophes
Everyone: Next year should be back to normal.
The WIAA: Hold my beer
Quote from: Ghetto on January 06, 2021, 02:18:32 PM
I apologize. This is a dumb question.
Do regionals HAVE to use the typical bracket for regionals?
It is laid out in the WIAA rules on what brackets are used, and it seems Track has that handled.
I think their goal has always been to have only 8 at state for each division and no more than 8 person brackets at any state series competitions. It is what it is, but would have made too much sense to:
Take Top Two from all regionals across all divisions
Combine sectionals in D1 - going from 8 sectionals down to 4, with top 2 from each sectional advance in all divisions. Leave D2 and D3 as is other than from top 3 to top 2, Each division is essentially the same.
Different location for state in each division with no spectators! - I don't see anyway they allow more than coaches and wrestlers.
DI already has this model which is broken into approximate geographics: A and B, C and D, E and F, G and H. WIAA will struggle to get 8 locations to host Sectionals in D1
I am interested to see if they violate there own rules for Team State, or bypass and take only Sectional Tournament Winner
They plan to allow Family members for fans at basketball and did for volleyball and football as well.
so...has an alternate plan been brought up to the WIAA? or are we just bitching to inappropriate term1?
Quote from: BackwardsHatAttack on January 06, 2021, 01:51:36 PM
Quote from: littleguy301 on January 06, 2021, 01:49:58 PM
When is the state series then?
I have heard conflicting reports as to when individual state will happen.
Just call Heidi back and ask her.
Great response.
I did ask q few questions and got no real answers. So I turned to this forum so I could get some responses and be able to sift through some answers and get something that sounds like an actual plan!
Obviously, because there isn't any set tournament yet. so be patient.
Quote from: Wrestling Novice on January 06, 2021, 12:34:34 PM
I did get confirmation from Wade that it would be 8 per weight class. What a complete joke. This will be devastating to many great wrestlers.
I think we need to stop complaining about this season, wrestlers are getting the opportunity to wrestle. Nothing this year will be ideal and that's the way it is. lots of places don't have the opportunity to wrestle this season so for this to even be an option is incredible. 8 people going isn't amazing it makes it harder, yes but it won't be devastating for the great wrestlers. Great wrestlers will find their way to make it to the state tournament and succeed. Now there will be plenty of wrestlers who would make it on a normal year I agree, but the great wrestlers you're talking about 99% of them will still get there.
So all the "great wrestlers" that take second at their sectional and go on to wrestle in the state championship or even win it, it is just tough luck for them? If this was in place when Malachi Root was wrestling he would have won a couple of state titles since the guy he lost to in the finals I believe twice was the same guy he beat the week before to win sectionals. Your thinking is flawed and frankly incredibly immature. The state championship isn't for just the champion. I would argue it is more for the qualifiers and their community.
Quote from: downtown on January 06, 2021, 09:24:44 PM
So all the "great wrestlers" that take second at their sectional and go on to wrestle in the state championship or even win it, it is just tough luck for them? If this was in place when Malachi Root was wrestling he would have won a couple of state titles since the guy he lost to in the finals I believe twice was the same guy he beat the week before to win sectionals. Your thinking is flawed and frankly incredibly immature. The state championship isn't for just the champion. I would argue it is more for the qualifiers and their community.
I agree it isn't just about the champion but if we're going to talk about it being completely devastating then we're lying to ourselves. We have the opportunity as a state to have a state tournament, if that's not happening that's devastating. having 8 less wrestlers is not devastating due to the circumstances. yes there will be wrestlers who don't make it, heck If it was me I would've been down only twice.To even have the opportunity to wrestle this year is way more important than having a full 16. Now is it possible I bet it is but if 8 is the proposed amount then that's what it is. Like I said great wrestlers find ways to win and sometimes that's the way the world works. There will always be the weaker vs stronger sectional where someone doesn't make it out or someone does when they shouldn't have. It's one year hopefully and as a competitor I'd much rather have the opportunity to qualify and win state with only one person from my sectional qualifying compared to no post season at all.
Quote from: Keaton Kluever on January 06, 2021, 09:42:39 PM
Quote from: downtown on January 06, 2021, 09:24:44 PM
So all the "great wrestlers" that take second at their sectional and go on to wrestle in the state championship or even win it, it is just tough luck for them? If this was in place when Malachi Root was wrestling he would have won a couple of state titles since the guy he lost to in the finals I believe twice was the same guy he beat the week before to win sectionals. Your thinking is flawed and frankly incredibly immature. The state championship isn't for just the champion. I would argue it is more for the qualifiers and their community.
I agree it isn't just about the champion but if we're going to talk about it being completely devastating then we're lying to ourselves. We have the opportunity as a state to have a state tournament, if that's not happening that's devastating. having 8 less wrestlers is not devastating due to the circumstances. yes there will be wrestlers who don't make it, heck If it was me I would've been down only twice.To even have the opportunity to wrestle this year is way more important than having a full 16. Now is it possible I bet it is but if 8 is the proposed amount then that's what it is. Like I said great wrestlers find ways to win and sometimes that's the way the world works. There will always be the weaker vs stronger sectional where someone doesn't make it out or someone does when they shouldn't have. It's one year hopefully and as a competitor I'd much rather have the opportunity to qualify and win state with only one person from my sectional qualifying compared to no post season at all.
But there is absolutely no reason to change the format. Wrestling has gone on all summer into the winter. Tournaments have been run with great success. It's about the kids. Give the kids the opportunity to wrestle. Jesus, just take the winner of each regional and move on to state. Simple. Less chance of contamination. Three separate tournaments. Everyone is happy.
Anyone think KK is looking for a job with the WIAA?
Quote from: Keaton Kluever on January 06, 2021, 09:42:39 PM
Quote from: downtown on January 06, 2021, 09:24:44 PM
So all the "great wrestlers" that take second at their sectional and go on to wrestle in the state championship or even win it, it is just tough luck for them? If this was in place when Malachi Root was wrestling he would have won a couple of state titles since the guy he lost to in the finals I believe twice was the same guy he beat the week before to win sectionals. Your thinking is flawed and frankly incredibly immature. The state championship isn't for just the champion. I would argue it is more for the qualifiers and their community.
I agree it isn't just about the champion but if we're going to talk about it being completely devastating then we're lying to ourselves. We have the opportunity as a state to have a state tournament, if that's not happening that's devastating. having 8 less wrestlers is not devastating due to the circumstances. yes there will be wrestlers who don't make it, heck If it was me I would've been down only twice.To even have the opportunity to wrestle this year is way more important than having a full 16. Now is it possible I bet it is but if 8 is the proposed amount then that's what it is. Like I said great wrestlers find ways to win and sometimes that's the way the world works. There will always be the weaker vs stronger sectional where someone doesn't make it out or someone does when they shouldn't have. It's one year hopefully and as a competitor I'd much rather have the opportunity to qualify and win state with only one person from my sectional qualifying compared to no post season at all.
While I agree somewhat that something is better than nothing the issue remains that there's absolutely no reason to cut down the qualifiers. It's not really about the 1 percent that are going to continue to work hard and make it...there are so many others that understand they aren't taking home a title but have had that dream of being a qualifier their whole lives and for 99 percent of those seniors they can now look at that sectional and know it's not going to happen.
Unfortunately, like usual reading about the meeting it is in Wade's head that there will be 8 representatives and to me that means it's not going to change. The problem is myself and I'm sure others have tried to stick up for what they thought was right in the past...and most of us are much more aware of what's good for wrestling...but it's like driving into a wall...no changing anyone's kind.
Quote from: Keaton Kluever on January 06, 2021, 09:42:39 PM
Quote from: downtown on January 06, 2021, 09:24:44 PM
So all the "great wrestlers" that take second at their sectional and go on to wrestle in the state championship or even win it, it is just tough luck for them? If this was in place when Malachi Root was wrestling he would have won a couple of state titles since the guy he lost to in the finals I believe twice was the same guy he beat the week before to win sectionals. Your thinking is flawed and frankly incredibly immature. The state championship isn't for just the champion. I would argue it is more for the qualifiers and their community.
I agree it isn't just about the champion but if we're going to talk about it being completely devastating then we're lying to ourselves. We have the opportunity as a state to have a state tournament, if that's not happening that's devastating. having 8 less wrestlers is not devastating due to the circumstances. yes there will be wrestlers who don't make it, heck If it was me I would've been down only twice.To even have the opportunity to wrestle this year is way more important than having a full 16. Now is it possible I bet it is but if 8 is the proposed amount then that's what it is. Like I said great wrestlers find ways to win and sometimes that's the way the world works. There will always be the weaker vs stronger sectional where someone doesn't make it out or someone does when they shouldn't have. It's one year hopefully and as a competitor I'd much rather have the opportunity to qualify and win state with only one person from my sectional qualifying compared to no post season at all.
It's not just 8 kids. It's 8x14 weight classes. Your losing 112 D1 state qualifiers and if it is 8 for D2/D3 you are losing 112 again. So 224 kids who go to school, get their work done, keep their grades up, practice, watch their weight, wear their mask, and follow the protocols lose an opportunity that for some of them can be life changing/alerting. They look at themselves different and can be put on a different path because of it.
Who can we talk to or what can be done to change the current plan? I was told the WWCA has no power at any of the meetings. I talked to an AD and they don't even know what is going on and say the WWCA should be pushing for the change. So if it is not the AD's and not the coaches who is it? No wonder all the complaining on the forum over the years and nothing changes.
Quote from: Wrestling Novice on January 06, 2021, 10:33:51 PM
Quote from: Keaton Kluever on January 06, 2021, 09:42:39 PM
Quote from: downtown on January 06, 2021, 09:24:44 PM
So all the "great wrestlers" that take second at their sectional and go on to wrestle in the state championship or even win it, it is just tough luck for them? If this was in place when Malachi Root was wrestling he would have won a couple of state titles since the guy he lost to in the finals I believe twice was the same guy he beat the week before to win sectionals. Your thinking is flawed and frankly incredibly immature. The state championship isn't for just the champion. I would argue it is more for the qualifiers and their community.
I agree it isn't just about the champion but if we're going to talk about it being completely devastating then we're lying to ourselves. We have the opportunity as a state to have a state tournament, if that's not happening that's devastating. having 8 less wrestlers is not devastating due to the circumstances. yes there will be wrestlers who don't make it, heck If it was me I would've been down only twice.To even have the opportunity to wrestle this year is way more important than having a full 16. Now is it possible I bet it is but if 8 is the proposed amount then that's what it is. Like I said great wrestlers find ways to win and sometimes that's the way the world works. There will always be the weaker vs stronger sectional where someone doesn't make it out or someone does when they shouldn't have. It's one year hopefully and as a competitor I'd much rather have the opportunity to qualify and win state with only one person from my sectional qualifying compared to no post season at all.
But there is absolutely no reason to change the format. Wrestling has gone on all summer into the winter. Tournaments have been run with great success. It's about the kids. Give the kids the opportunity to wrestle. Jesus, just take the winner of each regional and move on to state. Simple. Less chance of contamination. Three separate tournaments. Everyone is happy.
I think the problem is finding a venue in Wisconsin to hold an event whether all three divisions or 3 schools one division.
I asked about having it in the dells like all the others. Probably the wiaa doesnt have control if it is a non state venue, not sure about that.
Sounds like rhinelander is a good spot that has been offered up and for free.
Quote from: padre on January 07, 2021, 12:08:22 AM
Quote from: Keaton Kluever on January 06, 2021, 09:42:39 PM
Quote from: downtown on January 06, 2021, 09:24:44 PM
So all the "great wrestlers" that take second at their sectional and go on to wrestle in the state championship or even win it, it is just tough luck for them? If this was in place when Malachi Root was wrestling he would have won a couple of state titles since the guy he lost to in the finals I believe twice was the same guy he beat the week before to win sectionals. Your thinking is flawed and frankly incredibly immature. The state championship isn't for just the champion. I would argue it is more for the qualifiers and their community.
I agree it isn't just about the champion but if we're going to talk about it being completely devastating then we're lying to ourselves. We have the opportunity as a state to have a state tournament, if that's not happening that's devastating. having 8 less wrestlers is not devastating due to the circumstances. yes there will be wrestlers who don't make it, heck If it was me I would've been down only twice.To even have the opportunity to wrestle this year is way more important than having a full 16. Now is it possible I bet it is but if 8 is the proposed amount then that's what it is. Like I said great wrestlers find ways to win and sometimes that's the way the world works. There will always be the weaker vs stronger sectional where someone doesn't make it out or someone does when they shouldn't have. It's one year hopefully and as a competitor I'd much rather have the opportunity to qualify and win state with only one person from my sectional qualifying compared to no post season at all.
While I agree somewhat that something is better than nothing the issue remains that there's absolutely no reason to cut down the qualifiers. It's not really about the 1 percent that are going to continue to work hard and make it...there are so many others that understand they aren't taking home a title but have had that dream of being a qualifier their whole lives and for 99 percent of those seniors they can now look at that sectional and know it's not going to happen.
Unfortunately, like usual reading about the meeting it is in Wade's head that there will be 8 representatives and to me that means it's not going to change. The problem is myself and I'm sure others have tried to stick up for what they thought was right in the past...and most of us are much more aware of what's good for wrestling...but it's like driving into a wall...no changing anyone's kind.
This!
Quote from: wrastle63 on January 07, 2021, 05:59:01 AM
Quote from: Keaton Kluever on January 06, 2021, 09:42:39 PM
Quote from: downtown on January 06, 2021, 09:24:44 PM
So all the "great wrestlers" that take second at their sectional and go on to wrestle in the state championship or even win it, it is just tough luck for them? If this was in place when Malachi Root was wrestling he would have won a couple of state titles since the guy he lost to in the finals I believe twice was the same guy he beat the week before to win sectionals. Your thinking is flawed and frankly incredibly immature. The state championship isn't for just the champion. I would argue it is more for the qualifiers and their community.
I agree it isn't just about the champion but if we're going to talk about it being completely devastating then we're lying to ourselves. We have the opportunity as a state to have a state tournament, if that's not happening that's devastating. having 8 less wrestlers is not devastating due to the circumstances. yes there will be wrestlers who don't make it, heck If it was me I would've been down only twice.To even have the opportunity to wrestle this year is way more important than having a full 16. Now is it possible I bet it is but if 8 is the proposed amount then that's what it is. Like I said great wrestlers find ways to win and sometimes that's the way the world works. There will always be the weaker vs stronger sectional where someone doesn't make it out or someone does when they shouldn't have. It's one year hopefully and as a competitor I'd much rather have the opportunity to qualify and win state with only one person from my sectional qualifying compared to no post season at all.
It's not just 8 kids. It's 8x14 weight classes. Your losing 112 D1 state qualifiers and if it is 8 for D2/D3 you are losing 112 again. So 224 kids who go to school, get their work done, keep their grades up, practice, watch their weight, wear their mask, and follow the protocols lose an opportunity that for some of them can be life changing/alerting. They look at themselves different and can be put on a different path because of it.
And this!
quite a few of those 224 kids that miss out will also look at the state bracket and see 1-2 kids out of 8 that made it solely because the WIAA was too lazy to re-align the sectionals. Sure the Champ probably deserves to be the champ, but WIAA is going to have a whole bunch of "paper champ" state placers this year due to that 9 team sectional they burned thru with 3 forfeits in the bracket.
"something is better then nothing" mantra is just weak.
Quote from: Hayward on January 07, 2021, 06:42:54 AM
Who can we talk to or what can be done to change the current plan? I was told the WWCA has no power at any of the meetings. I talked to an AD and they don't even know what is going on and say the WWCA should be pushing for the change. So if it is not the AD's and not the coaches who is it? No wonder all the complaining on the forum over the years and nothing changes.
What has the WWCA accomplished? It should be them pushing for what "is best for the wrestlers." This notion of "at least they get to wrestle." is absolute nonsense. Wrestling 8-12 matches is garbage. Even less for JV wrestlers who bust their inappropriate term2 just as much as a Varsity wrestler. There is no need to change the state tourney to an 8 man bracket. NONE!!!! As for the states that are not wrestling, we all know why those states are not wrestling. Realign the regions and sections and go. Use the Dells dome and Hodag Dome and roll.
Quote from: Napoleon Dynamite on January 07, 2021, 08:16:24 AM
https://www.wiaawi.org/Portals/0/PDF/Results/Wrestling/2021/D1-Wrestling-2021.pdf
In D1, 4 of 8 Individual Sectionals are now in need of a host. 4 of 8 Team Sectionals are now in need of a host. 7 of 16 Regional sites are now in need of a host. Not a good sign for D1.
https://www.wiaawi.org/Portals/0/PDF/Results/Wrestling/2021/D2-Wrestling-2021.pdf
In D2, it looks better. 1 of 4 Individual Sectional sites are needed. 1 of 4 Team Sectional sites are needed. ZERO Regional sites of 16 are needed.
https://www.wiaawi.org/Portals/0/PDF/Results/Wrestling/2021/D3-Wrestling-2021.pdf
In D3, 1 of 4 Individual Sectional sites are needed. ZERO Team Sectional sites are needed. 2 of 16 Regional sites are needed.
If the WIAA would work with the wrestling people on this forum and allow the restructure of tournament assignments, everything could be resolved by next week.
1 day per division state tournaments (with the regular qualification process) brackets could work by changing consolation to fifth place due to the daily match limit.
Let the non-semifinalists wrestle for 5th instead of eliminating over 200 qualifiers because of the possible match limit of wrestling back to 3rd.
Boy, Wade sure is flexible. I mean great job talking to the people that know how to get it done.
If anything needs to change, it's those in charge of the WIAA.
FFS, if outsiders can get big tournaments done in a day, no reason why the WIAA can't.
• Negative Perceptions: Weight Loss, Skin Conditions, Cauliflower Ear,
What does this have to do with Covid and less opportunities for the kids this year??
Quote from: Wrestling Novice on January 07, 2021, 09:17:38 AM
Boy, Wade sure is flexible. I mean great job talking to the people that know how to get it done.
If anything needs to change, it's those in charge of the WIAA.
FFS, if outsiders can get big tournaments done in a day, no reason why the WIAA can't.
It's laughable and embarrassing. Pure laziness on the WIAA's part to not adapt. How about we don't use the WIAA and just go through the WWF or ask USA Wrestling for assistance?
Quote from: Numbers on January 07, 2021, 09:09:28 AM
Quote from: Napoleon Dynamite on January 07, 2021, 08:16:24 AM
https://www.wiaawi.org/Portals/0/PDF/Results/Wrestling/2021/D1-Wrestling-2021.pdf
In D1, 4 of 8 Individual Sectionals are now in need of a host. 4 of 8 Team Sectionals are now in need of a host. 7 of 16 Regional sites are now in need of a host. Not a good sign for D1.
https://www.wiaawi.org/Portals/0/PDF/Results/Wrestling/2021/D2-Wrestling-2021.pdf
In D2, it looks better. 1 of 4 Individual Sectional sites are needed. 1 of 4 Team Sectional sites are needed. ZERO Regional sites of 16 are needed.
https://www.wiaawi.org/Portals/0/PDF/Results/Wrestling/2021/D3-Wrestling-2021.pdf
In D3, 1 of 4 Individual Sectional sites are needed. ZERO Team Sectional sites are needed. 2 of 16 Regional sites are needed.
If the WIAA would work with the wrestling people on this forum and allow the restructure of tournament assignments, everything could be resolved by next week.
1 day per division state tournaments (with the regular qualification process) brackets could work by changing consolation to fifth place due to the daily match limit.
Let the non-semifinalists wrestle for 5th instead of eliminating over 200 qualifiers because of the possible match limit of wrestling back to 3rd.
And remember these "extra" 200 qualifiers would be split between three separate locations. Not talking about a huge increase in risk here.
Quote from: Hayward on January 07, 2021, 09:22:40 AM
• Negative Perceptions: Weight Loss, Skin Conditions, Cauliflower Ear,
What does this have to do with Covid and less opportunities for the kids this year??
A JOKE!!!! I would like to think the representation from the WWCA would address these issues and put them to bed.
Great job WIAA!!! Glad you thought this out and are looking at all options. NOT!!!
I did send an email to our AD and coaches asking them to fight back on this.
Our student athletes have fought for the school, it's time that the school fights for the student athlete.
I recommend that you all do the same.
Quote from: BackwardsHatAttack on January 07, 2021, 08:50:05 AM
...............
Notes:
Where is the WIAA at with the State Tournament Planning?
• Wade and Heidi have looked at regionals - too difficult to move from 8 sectionals to 4
o Will keep 8 sectionals
o Right now, Wade is taking the champion out of sectionals only
o Wendall asked if we can take top two from regionals and then two from each sectional - wade responded that it's been stated that we're taking only 8 kids to state so in keeping with 8 sectionals, that means only champion to state
o Wade was very clear that we're only taking 8 to sectionals in each division and only 8 to state in each division
o Randy asked if there was a running total of how many schools would be in each division. Wade responded that we're waiting on Madison. MPS has stated that they won't be participating in winter sports. Oregon, Verona were listed as trying to start winter sports. He anticipates Dane Co schools will be added in.
Pete asked about Host sites
• Wade remarked we only have 130 officials - will be able to cover regionals but no extras
• Many schools have indicated that they're willing to host only if there aren't spectators
o WIAA is trying to get schools to allow 2 spectators per wrestler
o WIAA is cognizant of area health department limiting capacity limits - wrestlers, coaches, workers, refs, and possibly fans
o Many hosts may not be able to host now because of Covid
• Randy asked what the total number was for hosts in terms of capacity - mentioned that for Volleyball may have been 400.
o Wade said no 400 number
o Hosting was allowed by WIAA based on 4 spectators per participant - if schools couldn't accommodate that, then they weren't allowed to host. This was a consideration in the fall hosting.
Pete asked if there was more of an issue over Sectionals than Regionals
• Wade said no - it's more of an issue over spectators.
• Pete followed up about not allowing spectators if we could run a normal state tournament series. Wade reasserted that with 8 qualifiers from Regionals and 8 from Sectionals, we can do it. Wade also mentioned that he's closing in on 3 separate host sites for state.
• Wade admitted that wrestling is not fighting the ability of wrestling to take place, it's fighting the perception of close contact because of the nature of wrestling
• Pete followed up that if you run 3 sites for state, if we're able to have the same number of participants. Wade said that the state tournament needs to be finished in 1 day. Adding more wrestlers would mean more rounds and thus more days. The WIAA's goal is to get this down to 1 day.
Pete asked where the Sports Medical Advisory Committee sits on spectators and capacity at sites
• Wade said that all decisions are local based on local health boards on capacity. The medical advisory acknowledges perception for wrestling is the main issue.
• Sites that have offered to host state: Kaukauna, WI Rapids, Adams-Friendship, Wausau West
• Sites are going to be governed by local control. The SMAC is going to advise over the health of participants.
Pete asked if there will be a change for the number of schools allowed at an event come postseason. Pete mentioned that we now are only allowed 4.
• Wade said that he's planted the seed that we're fighting perception
• Wade said that the SMAC will decide on masks - likely that masks will be required and no allowance on health issues - no mask/no participation (Forfeit)
• Wade believes that SMAC will maintain masks to wrestle
Wendall asked how close we are to disseminating information about postseason to coaches.
• Wade said that anything we've talked about can be discussed
• 8 to state, masks will be mandated
Pete asked about revenue for schools
• Wade said that nothing financial hasn't been brought up yet. Wade said that they're just talking about opportunities for kids.
• Wade reassured that if wrestling doesn't happen, it will be because of Covid not finances
• Wendall asked if streaming is available for State, this would be through Rush Media who has exclusive rights. Streaming at Regional and Sectional sites will be required at host sites if spectators aren't involved.
Pete asked if Dave Black reached out to WIAA about WWF helping host at Woodside
• Dave hasn't reached out to Wade.
• Wade doesn't think he'll be able to get one site for state, regardless of the venue.
• Pete forwarded Dave's email to Wade. Wade followed up again saying that he doesn't believe one site is an option. He was very clear on this.
• Wendall asked if team state will follow individual state mandates - 3 different sites rather than one site
Wendall asked if regionals/sectional assignments will be redrawn given the number of schools participating
• Wade said nothing is changing - doesn't anticipate any change other than 8 qualifying from each
• Wade views this as a losing proposition - gets into issues of why certain teams were moved versus others.
• Wade reasserted that this is a question about competition. Wade is only interested in opportunity. Mentioned that he's hopeful that we're going to have a regional tournament. Wade understands this may not be 'fair'. He understands that there will be some areas that are tougher than others.
Wade asserted that we're going ahead with regionals, as of right now. Schools are starting to fill out information and getting ready. The WIAA is in the future without changes EXCEPT that there will be 8 to sectionals and 8 to state.
• Wade mentioned more schools are pulling out of hosting team sectionals than individual
• Wade is more concerned about finding hosts for the team than individuals - may be an option for getting help from WWF?
What can WWCA do to help out or assist the WIAA?
• At this point, there really isn't anything that WWCA can help with. The SMAC is going to make a final decision on these issues.
• Pete asked when a decision is expected - Wade is talking to the doctors next week for their recommendations. Next week is most likely given their next meeting is Jan. 28. If they don't want to do regionals, Wade will request an individual state in May/June. Has no problem opening a few weeks of practice in May and having State in June - give kids opportunities.
Ryan asked about the negative perceptions of wrestling that Wade has mentioned. Asked what we can we do as coaches and the WWCA about changing the negative perception of wrestling.
• Negative Perceptions: Weight Loss, Skin Conditions, Cauliflower Ear,
Very Close contact
• Positives: Healthy living, Health and Welfare
I assume the above bolded statement is only for Division 1??? Division 2 and 3 would advance 2 per sectional?
This is painful to read. So as I understand it we are on hold until the SMAC makes a decision? I hate to say it, but I'm not holding my breath for a positive outcome. I really think the SMAC will take the extremly causious approach as they have done all year and keep it shut done.
I really hope that they take a look at the way large tournaments have been taking place in our state all winter.
Let the kids wrestle, I don't care about fans. This should be about the athletes.
SMAC has allowed wrestling to happen and all the other sports so I don't see them shutting it down from what we know now. Obviously wades comment about the only thing shutting it down being Covid is very real if there are massive outbreaks tied directly to wrestling.
With a single division, why does the WIAA think a 16 man bracket can't be run in one day. So maybe not a true wrestle back to 3rd but I think that would be less sacrifice than 200 some wrestlers not making it too state.
Quote from: MatScoutWillie on January 07, 2021, 09:25:17 AM
Quote from: Wrestling Novice on January 07, 2021, 09:17:38 AM
Boy, Wade sure is flexible. I mean great job talking to the people that know how to get it done.
If anything needs to change, it's those in charge of the WIAA.
FFS, if outsiders can get big tournaments done in a day, no reason why the WIAA can't.
It's laughable and embarrassing. Pure laziness on the WIAA's part to not adapt. How about we don't use the WIAA and just go through the WWF or ask USA Wrestling for assistance?
I have to agree on your post!
Quote from: bigoil on January 07, 2021, 10:51:54 AM
With a single division, why does the WIAA think a 16 man bracket can't be run in one day. So maybe not a true wrestle back to 3rd but I think that would be less sacrifice than 200 some wrestlers not making it too state.
Where is Woody when you need him to give us a answer if it is possible.
Quote from: wrastle63 on January 07, 2021, 11:01:54 AM
Quote from: bigoil on January 07, 2021, 10:51:54 AM
With a single division, why does the WIAA think a 16 man bracket can't be run in one day. So maybe not a true wrestle back to 3rd but I think that would be less sacrifice than 200 some wrestlers not making it too state.
Where is Woody when you need him to give us a answer if it is possible.
Plenty of tournaments run a 16 man bracket in one day. Bayport does I know that.
SMAC/WIAA allowed limited football season with no state tournament. I would assume the perceived close contact of wrestling is similar to football in their eyes. WWF can run seeded state tournament in 1 day. Kids can do virtual learning for 2 weeks after tournament if school district is concerned about Covid. Would schools/WIAA allow for continued training at school for WWF event? Seems like this would possible since you can do 2 non-school events.
Quote from: Wis-Mallard on January 07, 2021, 12:10:09 PM
SMAC/WIAA allowed limited football season with no state tournament. I would assume the perceived close contact of wrestling is similar to football in their eyes. WWF can run seeded state tournament in 1 day. Kids can do virtual learning for 2 weeks after tournament if school district is concerned about Covid. Would schools/WIAA allow for continued training at school for WWF event? Seems like this would possible since you can do 2 non-school events.
there was a state tournament, just not a championship because time constraints. week 9 of the FB season was the same week as a normal level 5 state championship week. WFCA decided it was more important to have 7 game reg season than figure out how to have a four game reg season and a true 5 week playoffs.
It was a regional championship in football IMO.
Quote from: bigoil on January 07, 2021, 12:28:19 PM
Quote from: Wis-Mallard on January 07, 2021, 12:10:09 PM
SMAC/WIAA allowed limited football season with no state tournament. I would assume the perceived close contact of wrestling is similar to football in their eyes. WWF can run seeded state tournament in 1 day. Kids can do virtual learning for 2 weeks after tournament if school district is concerned about Covid. Would schools/WIAA allow for continued training at school for WWF event? Seems like this would possible since you can do 2 non-school events.
there was a state tournament, just not a championship because time constraints. week 9 of the FB season was the same week as a normal level 5 state championship week. WFCA decided it was more important to have 7 game reg season than figure out how to have a four game reg season and a true 5 week playoffs.
While this is true, I believe that they pushed the start date back a couple of weeks and the "Culminating Events" were only two weeks, so basically the regional. I think they were afraid of going across the state to play games.
I am just fearful that there are going to continue to label wrestling as a HIGH RISK sport and limit the overall contact between areas. Our northern DII sectional takes up a really large geographical area. They may deem that exposure to be too great. I hope not, but I can see it.
If the hang up is being able to complete the State tournament in 1 day. Then this is obtainable. I am originally from Indiana and our state tournament has been run like that for years. Two different versions still wrestling less than 5 matches a day. We had an old system that was follow the leader after the 1st round. Lose first round and you are done. Place top 8. New system has wrestle backs to 5th place, semis are your top 4. Still only wrestle 4 matches. 16 kids to state means something to a lot of kids. If the other hang up is fans I am not sure why this is even a question. If it's kids or fans it's simple no fans. Would rather see more kids have an opportunity than parents be able to attend when they can watch via live stream.
Tim Spray
Teams are battling each other from all over the state. so dont worry about them canceling the postseason.
Though, you do need to accept that it won't be what we want... and there isn't a way at this time to get what you want.
It's too late in the game, and if you want to cuss and cry, you will only potentially cause the WIAA to shut it all down because you guys can't accept.
While it isn't fair to the 2nd placers at the D1 sectionals, or the 3rd placers at d2 and d3 sectionals, you're not going to change a thing for this month. Many wise people have already attempted to influence the WIAA in the past few months, so you need to stop thinking your crying will cause some type of miracle outcome.
It is not to late for change. It is attitudes like that which will ever prevent change for the better
The WIAA works for the school districts and the districts work for the students and taxpayers. If enough people and schools demand something different it can happen.
Quote from: Tims on January 07, 2021, 01:05:41 PM
If the hang up is being able to complete the State tournament in 1 day. Then this is obtainable. I am originally from Indiana and our state tournament has been run like that for years. Two different versions still wrestling less than 5 matches a day. We had an old system that was follow the leader after the 1st round. Lose first round and you are done. Place top 8. New system has wrestle backs to 5th place, semis are your top 4. Still only wrestle 4 matches. 16 kids to state means something to a lot of kids. If the other hang up is fans I am not sure why this is even a question. If it's kids or fans it's simple no fans. Would rather see more kids have an opportunity than parents be able to attend when they can watch via live stream.
Tim Spray
Too reasonable. Never going to happen with the current leadership.
Quote from: Hayward on January 07, 2021, 01:19:04 PM
It is not to late for change. It is attitudes like that which will ever prevent change for the better
The WIAA works for the school districts and the districts work for the students and taxpayers. If enough people and schools demand something different it can happen.
My impression is that AD's, parents, and coaches are all pushing for a normal like state tournament. But your statement is true in that the WIAA works for the "school districts". Knowing that let's look at school districts. How many D1 schools are there in the state that are going to school full time? We are going two days a week and almost every other school in the Fox Valley and Green Bay are worse than that being all virtual. Truth is that these districts and these school boards are the ones preventing things from happening. They are preventing their schools from hosting regionals or sectionals.
I am beyond frustrated but this issue really goes beyond wrestling and the WIAA and into the districts and their school boards and their county health boards. Many schools in the state have not wrestled at all and it has nothing to do with the WIAA yet they still are members and have voices.
Blows my mind that WWF/USA Wrestling can host an event with 588 high school wrestlers (not counting the second chance brackets they did) in one day. Actually in roughly 9 hours! Not really many spectators were in attendance (compared to what would have been). Maybe someone from the WIAA should have attended to see how safe those tournaments and wrestling really is. At this point, most of us have had it, been in contact with it or are just over it!
I think it can be done safely and effectively in one day, very sad that the message is "this is how it's going to be". I would love to see the WWF/USA wrestling do something - maybe a 2nd Chance State!!
Quote from: panther93 on January 07, 2021, 12:56:04 PM
Quote from: bigoil on January 07, 2021, 12:28:19 PM
Quote from: Wis-Mallard on January 07, 2021, 12:10:09 PM
SMAC/WIAA allowed limited football season with no state tournament. I would assume the perceived close contact of wrestling is similar to football in their eyes. WWF can run seeded state tournament in 1 day. Kids can do virtual learning for 2 weeks after tournament if school district is concerned about Covid. Would schools/WIAA allow for continued training at school for WWF event? Seems like this would possible since you can do 2 non-school events.
there was a state tournament, just not a championship because time constraints. week 9 of the FB season was the same week as a normal level 5 state championship week. WFCA decided it was more important to have 7 game reg season than figure out how to have a four game reg season and a true 5 week playoffs.
While this is true, I believe that they pushed the start date back a couple of weeks and the "Culminating Events" were only two weeks, so basically the regional. I think they were afraid of going across the state to play games.
I am just fearful that there are going to continue to label wrestling as a HIGH RISK sport and limit the overall contact between areas. Our northern DII sectional takes up a really large geographical area. They may deem that exposure to be too great. I hope not, but I can see it.
The next Monday winter sports started and then you have field conditions. Week 13 and Week 14 are usually on turf.
I also think that as wrestlers we always feel like we are getting the shaft since wrestling is not as popular as other sports.
While I think that happens a lot, I don't think this is happening in this instance. Every fall sport state tournament had numbers reduced in participants and fans with different locations and dates used for each division.
With that said wrestling does have its own issues directly affecting it now
1) Labeled a high risk sport
2) Indoor sport
3) Large volume of competitors. D1 individual tennis state usually has 64 players but only had 40. Even with only 8 wrestlers per bracket, D1 wrestling would have 112 competitors.
4) Large volume of teams and this lots of coaches. Of those 112 competitors, I would guess maybe it is 40-60 teams?
5) Lack of facilities willing to host and manage an individual tournament. Much easier to host four teams in other sports with less than 50 athletes and only coaches for 4 teams
6) Shortage of referees.
I am in the camp that it can be done with same brackets and competitors as always and it has even been proven by WWF. I am willing to admit that hosting an event like that certainly will have some Covid spread. That still can't be a reason to hide behind some sort of liability or self righteousness that cutting competitors in half is somehow going to change or alter the course of the Covid-19 pandemic.
Quote from: DocWrestling on January 07, 2021, 03:15:52 PM
I also think that as wrestlers we always feel like we are getting the shaft since wrestling is not as popular as other sports.
While I think that happens a lot, I don't think this is happening in this instance. Every fall sport state tournament had numbers reduced in participants and fans with different locations and dates used for each division.
With that said wrestling does have its own issues directly affecting it now
1) Labeled a high risk sport
2) Indoor sport
3) Large volume of competitors. D1 individual tennis state usually has 64 players but only had 40. Even with only 8 wrestlers per bracket, D1 wrestling would have 112 competitors.
4) Large volume of teams and this lots of coaches. Of those 112 competitors, I would guess maybe it is 40-60 teams?
5) Lack of facilities willing to host and manage an individual tournament. Much easier to host four teams in other sports with less than 50 athletes and only coaches for 4 teams
6) Shortage of referees.
I am in the camp that it can be done with same brackets and competitors as always and it has even been proven by WWF. I am willing to admit that hosting an event like that certainly will have some Covid spread. That still can't be a reason to hide behind some sort of liability or self righteousness that cutting competitors in half is somehow going to change or alter the course of the Covid-19 pandemic.
USA Wrestling sent out a survey by email a couple hours ago as a 7 day follow up after that even asking about COVID symptoms. I would be curious what the results of that survey are if they are shared with the general public. Wondering if they are sending out one after 14 days too. Obviously, the tournament wouldn't be the only place respondents would have been exposed, but a low number of symptomatic athletes and attendees would obviously be good data..
Folks,
I was told last night that the WIAA is going to cancel the tournament series for wrestling if we don't come up with regional and sectional hosts. As frustrating as everything is, we need to focus on what we can do right now. If your team is in a regional or sectional that does not have a host, be proactive and talk to your school. We have to get this done.
Someone will need to explain to me how the WIAA thinks 8 kids per bracket per weight while each participant having 2-4 fans in attendance is somehow medically acceptable in these times rather than having 16 per weight and no fans. If information I received about the reasoning for having the fans offset the cost of the 8 participants then that is a shame.
If it is about the cost then we need to find a way to offset that cost. It's about the kids is it not? It's the reason why schools offer sports and the sole reason the WIAA exists.
Tim Spray
Unfortunately we were one of the sites scheduled to host a regional and had to withdraw from hosting due to school board policies.
If you look at the D1 Southeast area they do not have either regional hosts or a sectional host. They need to find 3 hosts.
Madison area D1 sectional has a sectional host but is missing both regional hosts.
At D1 at least it sure seems like they need to maybe just try to find 8 sectional hosts and get rid of regionals.
I am guessing the WIAA with a school host will not entertain hosting an event outside of a school?
Quote from: Tims on January 08, 2021, 11:12:29 AM
Someone will need to explain to me how the WIAA thinks 8 kids per bracket per weight while each participant having 2-4 fans in attendance is somehow medically acceptable in these times rather than having 16 per weight and no fans. If information I received about the reasoning for having the fans offset the cost of the 8 participants then that is a shame.
If it is about the cost then we need to find a way to offset that cost. It's about the kids is it not? It's the reason why schools offer sports and the sole reason the WIAA exists.
Tim Spray
Come on Tim...you have been around long enough to know the WIAA could never and will never explain their "logic" behind anything.
Here are what I think the hangups are and the possible solution:
1 - location. No schools want to host the even. That isn't completley true...time to call some schools and get them on board. Rhinelander had stepped up. But if schools can't do it it seems like the Dells facilities don't have a problem running tournaments.
2 - cost. Time to ante up. Dang close to every school has a booster club. Those booster clubs have $$. Want to have a tournament? Maybe this is the year those funds go to the bigger opportunity instead of new warm-ups for the school. Ante up some money and it will cover the costs of the tournament.
3 - Time - Maybe my numbers are off but it looks like 560 wrestlers competed in the 2020 state tournament over the course of 3 days. Why couldn't the WIAA have a one day tournament and get it done? Nuway ran a tournament in the Dells in December with 677 athletes registered and hammered it out in one day.
The first objection I have seen to this is the 45 minute rule. Do the math...State tournament - 6 mats, 826 matches (based on the 2020 state bracket sizes). So then we figure 15 minutes per match (that is liberal) - 4 bouts per hour per mat. You could bang through 52 bouts in 9 hours. Start at 10:00 am and done by 7:00 at night. Start at 9:00 am and give an hour lunch break. And we all know the dome in the Dells can handle more than 6 mats.
Second objection is the 5 matches per day rule. The WIAA is willing to change the rules this year by only allowing the champions to go to state. Only one time will there be more than 6 matches in a 16 person bracket...if you lose the first match and then wrestle back to 3rd. Otherwise the rule doesn't come into effect. And I believe this is only for D1 at State. So...either change the rule to allow 6 matches in a day or first round loss ends the tournament.
So the answers are possible. Probably the biggest hangup is locations. The Dome in the Dells alone could host a couple regionals/sectionals. Would the universities be willing to host? It would probably cost $$ but maybe worth asking?? Just some thoughts.
We offered to host regionals and sectionals...still not on any of the assignments...our sectional is missing a regional and a sectional host. Coaches talk to your admins about hosting. D1 has 8 regionals and 4 sectionals yet that are open.
Maybe the question should be what facilities could host if another school provided tournament administration.
Quote from: bulldog on January 08, 2021, 12:24:06 PM
Maybe my numbers are off but it looks like 560 wrestlers competed in the 2020 state tournament over the course of 3 days. Why couldn't the WIAA have a one day tournament and get it done?.
This is the true problem. Most school districts won't even allow that many kids to come into school at once and that is in a controlled environment with everyone 6ft apart.
School boards have set limits and then county health boards have set limits. Some areas cannot get around that even with a supportive AD, booster club, and wrestling community
Apologize if I missed this, but for the sites needing hosts for team sectionals, is team state going on per usual? Winner of each regional faceoff and 8 teams at team state?
It is horrible if what Mr. Spray says and this is about mandating fans to collect money.
Certainly can go to no fans or one per wrestler if that is any kind of hang-up. It seems that charging schools a team entry fee to split the costs to break even would be doable.
Quote from: BackwardsHatAttack on January 08, 2021, 01:01:11 PM
Many schools are being told no because of their capacity limits and the WIAA requiring that 4 fans/wrestler is part of that number. 8+ teams of 25 people per team plus add in officials, workers, etc and then 4 fans/athlete and you are already over 650 people. Many schools won't let more than 15% capacity, so you'd need a Dang large gym/fieldhouse to even get the ok from the WIAA. ......and that is assuming your district will even allow it.
THIS will be what ends the season without a state tourney. Doesn't even pay to argue about 8 or 16 kids making it when they can't even wrestle in the tourney to get "there."
That seriously changes the discussion and I did not catch the 4 fans per wrestler clause. So is the solution to say no fans and limit the number of coaching staff? Or is the WIAA not even willing to discuss that option?
I know the tournament in the Dells had a limit on spectators. I don't know what it was.
Quote from: Tims on January 08, 2021, 11:12:29 AM
Someone will need to explain to me how the WIAA thinks 8 kids per bracket per weight while each participant having 2-4 fans in attendance is somehow medically acceptable in these times rather than having 16 per weight and no fans. If information I received about the reasoning for having the fans offset the cost of the 8 participants then that is a shame.
If it is about the cost then we need to find a way to offset that cost. It's about the kids is it not? It's the reason why schools offer sports and the sole reason the WIAA exists.
Tim Spray
It is great that the WIAA gave priority for hosting to schools that would allow 4 fans per wrestler. If sites are still needed, the numbers spectator of numbers should be reduced to 3, then 2, then 1, then zero.
If some team wants to not compete at regionals because of fan restrictions, that is a choice. Allow the teams that want to compete finish the season.
The wrestling world has given up a lot of concessions this season.
When is enough enough?
IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THE CURE IS WORSE THAN THE PROBLEM.
8 athletes at State is a deal-breaker.
Just cancel, we will survive. But to cut State in half and crush the dreams of 50% while catering to the elite is unacceptable.
A 16-man bracket is a one day event. This is a no brainer.
16x14=224
8x14=112 + 2 fans each = 336
NO FANS!!!
Let the athletes realize their dream.
Quote from: BackwardsHatAttack on January 07, 2021, 08:50:05 AM
...............
Notes:
Where is the WIAA at with the State Tournament Planning?
• Wade and Heidi have looked at regionals - too difficult to move from 8 sectionals to 4
o Will keep 8 sectionals
o Right now, Wade is taking the champion out of sectionals only
o Wendall asked if we can take top two from regionals and then two from each sectional - wade responded that it's been stated that we're taking only 8 kids to state so in keeping with 8 sectionals, that means only champion to state
o Wade was very clear that we're only taking 8 to sectionals in each division and only 8 to state in each division
o Randy asked if there was a running total of how many schools would be in each division. Wade responded that we're waiting on Madison. MPS has stated that they won't be participating in winter sports. Oregon, Verona were listed as trying to start winter sports. He anticipates Dane Co schools will be added in.
Pete asked about Host sites
• Wade remarked we only have 130 officials - will be able to cover regionals but no extras
• Many schools have indicated that they're willing to host only if there aren't spectators
o WIAA is trying to get schools to allow 2 spectators per wrestler
o WIAA is cognizant of area health department limiting capacity limits - wrestlers, coaches, workers, refs, and possibly fans
o Many hosts may not be able to host now because of Covid
• Randy asked what the total number was for hosts in terms of capacity - mentioned that for Volleyball may have been 400.
o Wade said no 400 number
o Hosting was allowed by WIAA based on 4 spectators per participant - if schools couldn't accommodate that, then they weren't allowed to host. This was a consideration in the fall hosting.
Pete asked if there was more of an issue over Sectionals than Regionals
• Wade said no - it's more of an issue over spectators.
• Pete followed up about not allowing spectators if we could run a normal state tournament series. Wade reasserted that with 8 qualifiers from Regionals and 8 from Sectionals, we can do it. Wade also mentioned that he's closing in on 3 separate host sites for state.
• Wade admitted that wrestling is not fighting the ability of wrestling to take place, it's fighting the perception of close contact because of the nature of wrestling
• Pete followed up that if you run 3 sites for state, if we're able to have the same number of participants. Wade said that the state tournament needs to be finished in 1 day. Adding more wrestlers would mean more rounds and thus more days. The WIAA's goal is to get this down to 1 day.
Pete asked where the Sports Medical Advisory Committee sits on spectators and capacity at sites
• Wade said that all decisions are local based on local health boards on capacity. The medical advisory acknowledges perception for wrestling is the main issue.
• Sites that have offered to host state: Kaukauna, WI Rapids, Adams-Friendship, Wausau West
• Sites are going to be governed by local control. The SMAC is going to advise over the health of participants.
Pete asked if there will be a change for the number of schools allowed at an event come postseason. Pete mentioned that we now are only allowed 4.
• Wade said that he's planted the seed that we're fighting perception
• Wade said that the SMAC will decide on masks - likely that masks will be required and no allowance on health issues - no mask/no participation (Forfeit)
• Wade believes that SMAC will maintain masks to wrestle
Wendall asked how close we are to disseminating information about postseason to coaches.
• Wade said that anything we've talked about can be discussed
• 8 to state, masks will be mandated
Pete asked about revenue for schools
• Wade said that nothing financial hasn't been brought up yet. Wade said that they're just talking about opportunities for kids.
• Wade reassured that if wrestling doesn't happen, it will be because of Covid not finances
• Wendall asked if streaming is available for State, this would be through Rush Media who has exclusive rights. Streaming at Regional and Sectional sites will be required at host sites if spectators aren't involved.
Pete asked if Dave Black reached out to WIAA about WWF helping host at Woodside
• Dave hasn't reached out to Wade.
• Wade doesn't think he'll be able to get one site for state, regardless of the venue.
• Pete forwarded Dave's email to Wade. Wade followed up again saying that he doesn't believe one site is an option. He was very clear on this.
• Wendall asked if team state will follow individual state mandates - 3 different sites rather than one site
Wendall asked if regionals/sectional assignments will be redrawn given the number of schools participating
• Wade said nothing is changing - doesn't anticipate any change other than 8 qualifying from each
• Wade views this as a losing proposition - gets into issues of why certain teams were moved versus others.
• Wade reasserted that this is a question about competition. Wade is only interested in opportunity. Mentioned that he's hopeful that we're going to have a regional tournament. Wade understands this may not be 'fair'. He understands that there will be some areas that are tougher than others.
Wade asserted that we're going ahead with regionals, as of right now. Schools are starting to fill out information and getting ready. The WIAA is in the future without changes EXCEPT that there will be 8 to sectionals and 8 to state.
• Wade mentioned more schools are pulling out of hosting team sectionals than individual
• Wade is more concerned about finding hosts for the team than individuals - may be an option for getting help from WWF?
What can WWCA do to help out or assist the WIAA?
• At this point, there really isn't anything that WWCA can help with. The SMAC is going to make a final decision on these issues.
• Pete asked when a decision is expected - Wade is talking to the doctors next week for their recommendations. Next week is most likely given their next meeting is Jan. 28. If they don't want to do regionals, Wade will request an individual state in May/June. Has no problem opening a few weeks of practice in May and having State in June - give kids opportunities.
Ryan asked about the negative perceptions of wrestling that Wade has mentioned. Asked what we can we do as coaches and the WWCA about changing the negative perception of wrestling.
• Negative Perceptions: Weight Loss, Skin Conditions, Cauliflower Ear,
Very Close contact
• Positives: Healthy living, Health and Welfare
Some of the information about the fans are in these notes.
Quote from: BackwardsHatAttack on January 08, 2021, 01:01:11 PM
Many schools are being told no because of their capacity limits and the WIAA requiring that 4 fans/wrestler is part of that number. 8+ teams of 25 people per team plus add in officials, workers, etc and then 4 fans/athlete and you are already over 650 people. Many schools won't let more than 15% capacity, so you'd need a Dang large gym/fieldhouse to even get the ok from the WIAA. ......and that is assuming your district will even allow it.
THIS will be what ends the season without a state tourney. Doesn't even pay to argue about 8 or 16 kids making it when they can't even wrestle in the tourney to get "there."
All year they have limited fans but now they want 4 fans per.......why is that? They did not have it for volleyball.
Wade not looking at the dells because why?
The WWF could help because they have the dome booked I believe.
Why is the wiaa now changing rules and making it tougher than it should be?
There are alot of schools that are not having in school sessions so there should not be a concern as spreading, correct.
Maybe this is the year the wiaa needs to back off making money and do what is right. If you look at their records they have money for a rainy day with all the years of running state stuff.
Also we are forgetting that it still has to pass the medical board.
Quote from: littleguy301 on January 08, 2021, 02:11:05 PM
Quote from: BackwardsHatAttack on January 08, 2021, 01:01:11 PM
Many schools are being told no because of their capacity limits and the WIAA requiring that 4 fans/wrestler is part of that number. 8+ teams of 25 people per team plus add in officials, workers, etc and then 4 fans/athlete and you are already over 650 people. Many schools won't let more than 15% capacity, so you'd need a Dang large gym/fieldhouse to even get the ok from the WIAA. ......and that is assuming your district will even allow it.
THIS will be what ends the season without a state tourney. Doesn't even pay to argue about 8 or 16 kids making it when they can't even wrestle in the tourney to get "there."
All year they have limited fans but now they want 4 fans per.......why is that? They did not have it for volleyball.
Wade not looking at the dells because why?
The WWF could help because they have the dome booked I believe.
Why is the wiaa now changing rules and making it tougher than it should be?
There are alot of schools that are not having in school sessions so there should not be a concern as spreading, correct.
Maybe this is the year the wiaa needs to back off making money and do what is right. If you look at their records they have money for a rainy day with all the years of running state stuff.
Also we are forgetting that it still has to pass the medical board.
they did it for FB and I'm guessing they will for BB. If you wanted to host a playoff game, WIAA required 4 fans in attendance. Our conference had limited to 2 fans all regular season but allowed 4 for the playoffs.
So I am totally confused!!
What are the missing pieces to being able to have a state?
How many regional locations are needed?
What would the state format need to be?
Would each division needs its own location?
Thoughts on next season!
With all the confusing communication to this point and most likely beyond what do we think the damage is to our wrestling enrollment? As I look at track wrestling for results I am seeing an obvious high FF rate. Some of the FF can be explained away do to Covid quarantine requirements but when I look at the team rosters they look much lighter then normal. My fear is it will take years and years to get the numbers back to what they were and if the WIAA doesn't come out with a positive message on a State series we will lose more kids we may never see back.
My assumption is we will see 10-20% of the teams needing to Co-op to put out a team next year at the pace its headed.
Quote from: Nice to be a winner! on January 08, 2021, 01:27:35 PM
The wrestling world has given up a lot of concessions this season.
When is enough enough?
IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THE CURE IS WORSE THAN THE PROBLEM.
8 athletes at State is a deal-breaker.
Just cancel, we will survive. But to cut State in half and crush the dreams of 50% while catering to the elite is unacceptable.
A 16-man bracket is a one day event. This is a no brainer.
16x14=224
8x14=112 + 2 fans each = 336
NO FANS!!!
Let the athletes realize their dream.
That's a little bit dramatic!! Taking away the opportunity for 50% of the kids isn't acceptable, so let's just take away the chance for 100% of them?? I understand the desire to have full brackets and fans, and to not stop fighting for that, but saying 50% is so bad that 0% is better is kinda crazy.
Money should not be a factor in reducing the number of state qualifiers or changing any part of the state series. Post the projected budget deficits by area and total. I expect the wrestling community may solve any financial deficit by donations to the WIAA or hosting schools.
There are enough people reading this board to make things happen. People want to work with the WIAA for the athlete's benefit. That is why many want the regular amount of state qualifiers.
Quote from: Numbers on January 08, 2021, 05:55:20 PM
Money should not be a factor in reducing the number of state qualifiers or changing any part of the state series. Post the projected budget deficits by area and total. I expect the wrestling community may solve any financial deficit by donations to the WIAA or hosting schools.
There are enough people reading this board to make things happen. People want to work with the WIAA for the athlete's benefit. That is why many want the regular amount of state qualifiers.
You apparently have never tried giving reasoning with the WIAA.
Quote from: padre on January 08, 2021, 06:17:44 PM
Quote from: Numbers on January 08, 2021, 05:55:20 PM
Money should not be a factor in reducing the number of state qualifiers or changing any part of the state series. Post the projected budget deficits by area and total. I expect the wrestling community may solve any financial deficit by donations to the WIAA or hosting schools.
There are enough people reading this board to make things happen. People want to work with the WIAA for the athlete's benefit. That is why many want the regular amount of state qualifiers.
You apparently have never tried giving reasoning with the WIAA.
Have not. Also realize that you cannot work with people if they do not want to work with you.
But in this difficult season, if it is about the kids, there are people that want to help give as many kids as possible the same experience they had as wrestlers at the WIAA State Tournament.
Its almost like the biggest problems WIAA faces in order for the State series to occur have been known the whole year, yet they could not think creatively to solve them and in all actuality they are just stringing kids along with false hope just to prevent a mass exodus....almost as if they don't care about these "opportunities" they state they want the kids to have.
Quote from: bulldog on January 08, 2021, 12:24:06 PM
Quote from: Tims on January 08, 2021, 11:12:29 AM
Someone will need to explain to me how the WIAA thinks 8 kids per bracket per weight while each participant having 2-4 fans in attendance is somehow medically acceptable in these times rather than having 16 per weight and no fans. If information I received about the reasoning for having the fans offset the cost of the 8 participants then that is a shame.
If it is about the cost then we need to find a way to offset that cost. It's about the kids is it not? It's the reason why schools offer sports and the sole reason the WIAA exists.
Tim Spray
Come on Tim...you have been around long enough to know the WIAA could never and will never explain their "logic" behind anything.
Here are what I think the hangups are and the possible solution:
1 - location. No schools want to host the even. That isn't completley true...time to call some schools and get them on board. Rhinelander had stepped up. But if schools can't do it it seems like the Dells facilities don't have a problem running tournaments.
2 - cost. Time to ante up. Dang close to every school has a booster club. Those booster clubs have $$. Want to have a tournament? Maybe this is the year those funds go to the bigger opportunity instead of new warm-ups for the school. Ante up some money and it will cover the costs of the tournament.
3 - Time - Maybe my numbers are off but it looks like 560 wrestlers competed in the 2020 state tournament over the course of 3 days. Why couldn't the WIAA have a one day tournament and get it done? Nuway ran a tournament in the Dells in December with 677 athletes registered and hammered it out in one day.
The first objection I have seen to this is the 45 minute rule. Do the math...State tournament - 6 mats, 826 matches (based on the 2020 state bracket sizes). So then we figure 15 minutes per match (that is liberal) - 4 bouts per hour per mat. You could bang through 52 bouts in 9 hours. Start at 10:00 am and done by 7:00 at night. Start at 9:00 am and give an hour lunch break. And we all know the dome in the Dells can handle more than 6 mats.
Second objection is the 5 matches per day rule. The WIAA is willing to change the rules this year by only allowing the champions to go to state. Only one time will there be more than 6 matches in a 16 person bracket...if you lose the first match and then wrestle back to 3rd. Otherwise the rule doesn't come into effect. And I believe this is only for D1 at State. So...either change the rule to allow 6 matches in a day or first round loss ends the tournament.
So the answers are possible. Probably the biggest hangup is locations. The Dome in the Dells alone could host a couple regionals/sectionals. Would the universities be willing to host? It would probably cost $$ but maybe worth asking?? Just some thoughts.
One problem with your first and second objection...............
NFHSNo way the WIAA loses a seat at the table
One thing you can guarantee is the WIAA being cautious 10x. If there is even a hint of liability they aren't going to do it. This is where all the issues come in with holding a tournament. I'm thinking IF they hold a "State Tournament" it's gonna be with the least amount of kids possible. I hope I'm wrong but I think more likely its "Sectional Champs" and that's it.
With all that said, we were told in a meeting this week that the WIAA was going to consider moving all winter sports seasons back a week. We were told the WIAA was having a meeting the next day and that was on Tuesday. We haven't heard anything since.
Quote from: hornbuckleb on January 08, 2021, 11:59:12 PM
Quote from: bulldog on January 08, 2021, 12:24:06 PM
Quote from: Tims on January 08, 2021, 11:12:29 AM
Someone will need to explain to me how the WIAA thinks 8 kids per bracket per weight while each participant having 2-4 fans in attendance is somehow medically acceptable in these times rather than having 16 per weight and no fans. If information I received about the reasoning for having the fans offset the cost of the 8 participants then that is a shame.
If it is about the cost then we need to find a way to offset that cost. It's about the kids is it not? It's the reason why schools offer sports and the sole reason the WIAA exists.
Tim Spray
Come on Tim...you have been around long enough to know the WIAA could never and will never explain their "logic" behind anything.
Here are what I think the hangups are and the possible solution:
1 - location. No schools want to host the even. That isn't completley true...time to call some schools and get them on board. Rhinelander had stepped up. But if schools can't do it it seems like the Dells facilities don't have a problem running tournaments.
2 - cost. Time to ante up. Dang close to every school has a booster club. Those booster clubs have $$. Want to have a tournament? Maybe this is the year those funds go to the bigger opportunity instead of new warm-ups for the school. Ante up some money and it will cover the costs of the tournament.
3 - Time - Maybe my numbers are off but it looks like 560 wrestlers competed in the 2020 state tournament over the course of 3 days. Why couldn't the WIAA have a one day tournament and get it done? Nuway ran a tournament in the Dells in December with 677 athletes registered and hammered it out in one day.
The first objection I have seen to this is the 45 minute rule. Do the math...State tournament - 6 mats, 826 matches (based on the 2020 state bracket sizes). So then we figure 15 minutes per match (that is liberal) - 4 bouts per hour per mat. You could bang through 52 bouts in 9 hours. Start at 10:00 am and done by 7:00 at night. Start at 9:00 am and give an hour lunch break. And we all know the dome in the Dells can handle more than 6 mats.
Second objection is the 5 matches per day rule. The WIAA is willing to change the rules this year by only allowing the champions to go to state. Only one time will there be more than 6 matches in a 16 person bracket...if you lose the first match and then wrestle back to 3rd. Otherwise the rule doesn't come into effect. And I believe this is only for D1 at State. So...either change the rule to allow 6 matches in a day or first round loss ends the tournament.
So the answers are possible. Probably the biggest hangup is locations. The Dome in the Dells alone could host a couple regionals/sectionals. Would the universities be willing to host? It would probably cost $$ but maybe worth asking?? Just some thoughts.
One problem with your first and second objection...............NFHS
No way the WIAA loses a seat at the table
There is no chance the NFHS would take away your vote this year if you modified your rules, states are modifying there rules all over the nation this year. And if you lost your vote who really cares? what does that vote get you? example Minnesota would rather have good instate wrestling then a vote at a meeting! They don't do the decent plan and go figure they have the best attrition rate in wrestling over the past 20 years. They also give a one day exception on the match count so they don't have to run a regional tournament, its just a sectional tournament and then every division in the state is equal so when they vote on state issues they actually get things done because they have the same issues. This might be the perfect year to stop caring about "a vote" and focus on the kids and what it will take to fix the damage the politicians have done to our schools with all the shut downs.
Who cares about a vote? stop letting the WIAA use that vote as leverage over you!!
NO spectators, they watch online. Let ALL the kids wrestle.
I agree. The fans and parents can watch from home. It's more important that the kids get to participate.
If D1gets canceled because they can't find enough schools to host their events, will that also cancel D2 and D3?
Quote from: thequad on January 09, 2021, 12:15:19 PM
If D1gets canceled because they can't find enough schools to host their events, will that also cancel D2 and D3?
Good question quad.
I'd say if you can't get a host for your regional or sectional, you just can't be part of the tourney.
While nobody is truly happy about the number of state qualifiers, focus on getting what you can... not what you would ideally like. That isn't likely happening this year.
Enough sites for regionals and sectionals is the first step here.
Quote from: factfinder on January 09, 2021, 04:41:44 AM
Quote from: hornbuckleb on January 08, 2021, 11:59:12 PM
Quote from: bulldog on January 08, 2021, 12:24:06 PM
Quote from: Tims on January 08, 2021, 11:12:29 AM
Someone will need to explain to me how the WIAA thinks 8 kids per bracket per weight while each participant having 2-4 fans in attendance is somehow medically acceptable in these times rather than having 16 per weight and no fans. If information I received about the reasoning for having the fans offset the cost of the 8 participants then that is a shame.
If it is about the cost then we need to find a way to offset that cost. It's about the kids is it not? It's the reason why schools offer sports and the sole reason the WIAA exists.
Tim Spray
Come on Tim...you have been around long enough to know the WIAA could never and will never explain their "logic" behind anything.
Here are what I think the hangups are and the possible solution:
1 - location. No schools want to host the even. That isn't completley true...time to call some schools and get them on board. Rhinelander had stepped up. But if schools can't do it it seems like the Dells facilities don't have a problem running tournaments.
2 - cost. Time to ante up. Dang close to every school has a booster club. Those booster clubs have $$. Want to have a tournament? Maybe this is the year those funds go to the bigger opportunity instead of new warm-ups for the school. Ante up some money and it will cover the costs of the tournament.
3 - Time - Maybe my numbers are off but it looks like 560 wrestlers competed in the 2020 state tournament over the course of 3 days. Why couldn't the WIAA have a one day tournament and get it done? Nuway ran a tournament in the Dells in December with 677 athletes registered and hammered it out in one day.
The first objection I have seen to this is the 45 minute rule. Do the math...State tournament - 6 mats, 826 matches (based on the 2020 state bracket sizes). So then we figure 15 minutes per match (that is liberal) - 4 bouts per hour per mat. You could bang through 52 bouts in 9 hours. Start at 10:00 am and done by 7:00 at night. Start at 9:00 am and give an hour lunch break. And we all know the dome in the Dells can handle more than 6 mats.
Second objection is the 5 matches per day rule. The WIAA is willing to change the rules this year by only allowing the champions to go to state. Only one time will there be more than 6 matches in a 16 person bracket...if you lose the first match and then wrestle back to 3rd. Otherwise the rule doesn't come into effect. And I believe this is only for D1 at State. So...either change the rule to allow 6 matches in a day or first round loss ends the tournament.
So the answers are possible. Probably the biggest hangup is locations. The Dome in the Dells alone could host a couple regionals/sectionals. Would the universities be willing to host? It would probably cost $$ but maybe worth asking?? Just some thoughts.
One problem with your first and second objection...............NFHS
No way the WIAA loses a seat at the table
There is no chance the NFHS would take away your vote this year if you modified your rules, states are modifying there rules all over the nation this year. And if you lost your vote who really cares? what does that vote get you? example Minnesota would rather have good instate wrestling then a vote at a meeting! They don't do the decent plan and go figure they have the best attrition rate in wrestling over the past 20 years. They also give a one day exception on the match count so they don't have to run a regional tournament, its just a sectional tournament and then every division in the state is equal so when they vote on state issues they actually get things done because they have the same issues. This might be the perfect year to stop caring about "a vote" and focus on the kids and what it will take to fix the damage the politicians have done to our schools with all the shut downs.
Who cares about a vote? stop letting the WIAA use that vote as leverage over you!!
Agree with almost a 100% of what you said. Unfortunately, neither of us work at the WIAA or NFHS, and I don't think anyone at the WIAA would agree.
Quote from: hornbuckleb on January 09, 2021, 06:51:23 PM
Quote from: factfinder on January 09, 2021, 04:41:44 AM
Quote from: hornbuckleb on January 08, 2021, 11:59:12 PM
Quote from: bulldog on January 08, 2021, 12:24:06 PM
Quote from: Tims on January 08, 2021, 11:12:29 AM
Someone will need to explain to me how the WIAA thinks 8 kids per bracket per weight while each participant having 2-4 fans in attendance is somehow medically acceptable in these times rather than having 16 per weight and no fans. If information I received about the reasoning for having the fans offset the cost of the 8 participants then that is a shame.
If it is about the cost then we need to find a way to offset that cost. It's about the kids is it not? It's the reason why schools offer sports and the sole reason the WIAA exists.
Tim Spray
Come on Tim...you have been around long enough to know the WIAA could never and will never explain their "logic" behind anything.
Here are what I think the hangups are and the possible solution:
1 - location. No schools want to host the even. That isn't completley true...time to call some schools and get them on board. Rhinelander had stepped up. But if schools can't do it it seems like the Dells facilities don't have a problem running tournaments.
2 - cost. Time to ante up. Dang close to every school has a booster club. Those booster clubs have $$. Want to have a tournament? Maybe this is the year those funds go to the bigger opportunity instead of new warm-ups for the school. Ante up some money and it will cover the costs of the tournament.
3 - Time - Maybe my numbers are off but it looks like 560 wrestlers competed in the 2020 state tournament over the course of 3 days. Why couldn't the WIAA have a one day tournament and get it done? Nuway ran a tournament in the Dells in December with 677 athletes registered and hammered it out in one day.
The first objection I have seen to this is the 45 minute rule. Do the math...State tournament - 6 mats, 826 matches (based on the 2020 state bracket sizes). So then we figure 15 minutes per match (that is liberal) - 4 bouts per hour per mat. You could bang through 52 bouts in 9 hours. Start at 10:00 am and done by 7:00 at night. Start at 9:00 am and give an hour lunch break. And we all know the dome in the Dells can handle more than 6 mats.
Second objection is the 5 matches per day rule. The WIAA is willing to change the rules this year by only allowing the champions to go to state. Only one time will there be more than 6 matches in a 16 person bracket...if you lose the first match and then wrestle back to 3rd. Otherwise the rule doesn't come into effect. And I believe this is only for D1 at State. So...either change the rule to allow 6 matches in a day or first round loss ends the tournament.
So the answers are possible. Probably the biggest hangup is locations. The Dome in the Dells alone could host a couple regionals/sectionals. Would the universities be willing to host? It would probably cost $$ but maybe worth asking?? Just some thoughts.
One problem with your first and second objection...............NFHS
No way the WIAA loses a seat at the table
There is no chance the NFHS would take away your vote this year if you modified your rules, states are modifying there rules all over the nation this year. And if you lost your vote who really cares? what does that vote get you? example Minnesota would rather have good instate wrestling then a vote at a meeting! They don't do the decent plan and go figure they have the best attrition rate in wrestling over the past 20 years. They also give a one day exception on the match count so they don't have to run a regional tournament, its just a sectional tournament and then every division in the state is equal so when they vote on state issues they actually get things done because they have the same issues. This might be the perfect year to stop caring about "a vote" and focus on the kids and what it will take to fix the damage the politicians have done to our schools with all the shut downs.
Who cares about a vote? stop letting the WIAA use that vote as leverage over you!!
Agree with almost a 100% of what you said. Unfortunately, neither of us work at the WIAA or NFHS, and I don't think anyone at the WIAA would agree.
I unfortunately I agree with you!!
hornbuckleb...serious question here. What does the NFHS have to do with point 1 and 2?
Quote from: bulldog on January 10, 2021, 05:45:19 PM
hornbuckleb...serious question here. What does the NFHS have to do with point 1 and 2?
Was not referring the points or hangups, only referring to your objections.
So as of now, what are the odds of having this state tournament? I want my kids to compete and if there is not a state tournament then I will have them join club teams. The Dells have done a nice job hosting tournaments and I hate seeing my wrestlers not being able to compete in tournaments.
Quote from: A_little_birdy on January 11, 2021, 08:52:08 AM
So as of now, what are the odds of having this state tournament? I want my kids to compete and if there is not a state tournament then I will have them join club teams. The Dells have done a nice job hosting tournaments and I hate seeing my wrestlers not being able to compete in tournaments.
With the lack of D1 schools willing to host it looks like the plan could be coming apart. Question I have is - if D1 gets cancelled because of lack of hosts - will D2 and D3 get to move forward? Looks like they have enough schools willing to host.
I dont see how there are no D1 schools interested in hosting when you have two ADs who support wrestling in the FVA With large gymnasiums that could host at least state tournaments for D1 (Kaukauna and Neenah)
since there are two in one conference im sure there are other D1 venues and schools with districts that support wrestling that can host the state tournament series needs to happen
The post season must go on regardless of certain regionals or sectionals that don't have hosts. If it means no fans so be it, the most important is the kids should not be short changed and another season taken away from them. I get it certain schools or counties are more strict than others but the season should not be shut down because of that. Those that are willing to host and have there regionals and sectionals you go with what is out there. I know maybe not fair to those schools that are in those regionals or sectionals that don't have a host but then it is up to your community, fans, coaches to all get on board and put more pressure on those powers at be to make it happen. Wrestling has been going on for over a month already and I think for the most part been going ok so why would we want to just throw up arms and say the season is now over because we can't find enough hosts. It is my hope that once these communities realize that there kids will lose out on state series that all regionals and sectionals will find a host.
As I see it the biggest problem is with fans the total amount of people in a gym. Many schools and conferences have a limit right now of two tickets per athlete and no away fans can attend. That seems to be working for right now. All of a sudden you throw 7-8 teams in a gym and allow four tickets per athlete the total number of people in the gym goes up about 7 times. In many counties and for many school boards that is not possible. It is tough to even compare to basketball, as they would have two teams about 10-12 kids and fans (that is like two wrestling teams and fans.)
450 possible fans with 112 athletes, 24 or so coaches, and 20 something tournament personel put us over 600 people in a gym on the low end. As much as I am against restrictions I do see this as a problem
Do away with the fans and have each host school steam the action has they have been all year. No need to charge for the serive, just stream it like we did for football. Does this suck for the fans? YEP. As a coach I really dont care about the fans right now, I care about my athletes that have trained all year and done the right thing by staying healthy and on the mat.
Neenah has volunteered to host but Kaukauna currently is. I am sure this is the case in other areas. Why don't they realign base on what teams are left and who can host. I wonder if this would help lower the number of hosts that are still needed??
Does anybody know if the WWCA or the AD's of the state are working on making this happen or are we just going with whatever the WIAA wants?
Quote from: panther93 on January 11, 2021, 10:52:07 AM
As I see it the biggest problem is with fans the total amount of people in a gym. Many schools and conferences have a limit right now of two tickets per athlete and no away fans can attend. That seems to be working for right now. All of a sudden you throw 7-8 teams in a gym and allow four tickets per athlete the total number of people in the gym goes up about 7 times. In many counties and for many school boards that is not possible. It is tough to even compare to basketball, as they would have two teams about 10-12 kids and fans (that is like two wrestling teams and fans.)
450 possible fans with 112 athletes, 24 or so coaches, and 20 something tournament personel put us over 600 people in a gym on the low end. As much as I am against restrictions I do see this as a problem
Do away with the fans and have each host school steam the action has they have been all year. No need to charge for the serive, just stream it like we did for football. Does this suck for the fans? YEP. As a coach I really dont care about the fans right now, I care about my athletes that have trained all year and done the right thing by staying healthy and on the mat.
I agree with this with one exception that I don't understand. It appears almost every D2/D3 regional has a location willing to host - D1 has only 1/2 of the regionals with hosts. No matter D1/D2/D3 - same number of wrestlers. D1 school by nature of enrollment have larger facilities/gyms - so how can the smaller facilities of D2/D3 schools host but not D1 - something doesn't add up to me??
First...have the goal be that same number of wrestlers qualify and have the opportunity at State as usual. Second...no fans...just wrestlers and coaches. For regional's and sectionals, figure out which schools can/are willing to host and how big those gyms are. Then divide up the schools amongst each of those schools that are willing to host...yes, there may be long drives, weird school pairings, and/or different number of entrants at each location, but so be it (again the goal is to qualify as many kids as usual for the state tournament in the most "fair' way possible). If there is a worry about costs, start a donations site/go fund me page, ask for corporate sponsorship, ask parents to kick in extra if they are able to, etc. Start a robust communication campaign to all wrestling families around the plan, how to stay safe, how long grandma and grandpa should stay away from little Johnny during the tournament series, etc. If there is worry about number of "volunteer's" to make this happen, start asking NOW...I can guarantee people will step up...I would!
Not sure why this has to be so difficult and always at the expense of the kids. Be creative and think outside the box...I can stand those who think of all the reasons why something CAN'T happen versus using that effort on how it CAN happen!?!? As for the liability crap, people can take that and shove it...that is a weak cop-out! People in "power" sure lose sight of what truly is important for the sake of their own whimpy behinds.
First it was Stoughton and now Sun Prairie are resuming sports but are not allowed to do anything in Dane County so they are all looking for away contests. Sounds like Sun Prairie is starting in 2 weeks. I thin they have been practicing but now schools have given OK to compete as long as it is outside Dane County.
Good for those kids to at least compete in postseason and get some sort for 3-4 week season. People in Dane County are ready to go wild!
Has anyone heard anything about the Kenosha and Racine schools or other Dane County Schools? I am sure all the Madison city schools will remain shut down from sports like Milwaukee.
This is what needs to happen...
1) WIAA has to set an end date to decide if your school is participating in postseason. They need to know how many schools are wrestling
2) Once they have that information, they need to ask what schools are willing to host regionals and sectionals.
3) Draw up new groupings.
There is still plenty of time because this can all be done in 3 days.
Quote from: DocWrestling on January 11, 2021, 11:21:48 AM
First it was Stoughton and now Sun Prairie are resuming sports but are not allowed to do anything in Dane County so they are all looking for away contests. Sounds like Sun Prairie is starting in 2 weeks. I thin they have been practicing but now schools have given OK to compete as long as it is outside Dane County.
Good for those kids to at least compete in postseason and get some sort for 3-4 week season. People in Dane County are ready to go wild!
Has anyone heard anything about the Kenosha and Racine schools or other Dane County Schools? I am sure all the Madison city schools will remain shut down from sports like Milwaukee.
This is what needs to happen...
1) WIAA has to set an end date to decide if your school is participating in postseason. They need to know how many schools are wrestling
2) Once they have that information, they need to ask what schools are willing to host regionals and sectionals.
3) Draw up new groupings.
There is still plenty of time because this can all be done in 3 days.
I believe Number 1 and 2 have already happened
Doc, the Kenosha schools are wrestling but Racine's are not
I really think the simple solution is not to have fans. I mean we've gone the whole season basically without them and there hasn't been that many problems. It would just allow more athletes to wrestle.
Quote from: TheWrestlerOne on January 11, 2021, 02:34:43 PM
I really think the simple solution is not to have fans. I mean we've gone the whole season basically without them and there hasn't been that many problems. It would just allow more athletes to wrestle.
It's not going to change Wade's mind, but I still agree. No fans isn't great, but it makes it easier for schools to say yes to hosting. Needs to happen.
Quote from: hornbuckleb on January 10, 2021, 06:32:01 PM
Quote from: bulldog on January 10, 2021, 05:45:19 PM
hornbuckleb...serious question here. What does the NFHS have to do with point 1 and 2?
Was not referring the points or hangups, only referring to your objections.
Got it...I assume your point is NFHS has set the 45 minute and 5 matches per day rule...right? So my first objection I overcome. I think (based on the math) we could run all the matches and still give 45 minutes between bouts - 6 mats, 826 matches (based on the 2020 state bracket sizes). So then we figure 15 minutes per match (that is liberal) - 4 bouts per hour per mat. You could bang through 52 bouts in 9 hours. Start at 10:00 am and done by 7:00 at night. Start at 9:00 am and give an hour lunch break. And we all know the dome in the Dells can handle more than 6 mats.
The 5 matches per day...that one I don't have an answer to. It only pertains to D1 and only if you lose win your first match and lose your second and then wrestle back to 3rd place (which probably doesn't happen much). The only answer I have is to change to first round loss and you are eliminated.
I think that would cover these objections...or am I looking at it wrong?
Quote from: Ghetto on January 11, 2021, 03:06:28 PM
Quote from: TheWrestlerOne on January 11, 2021, 02:34:43 PM
I really think the simple solution is not to have fans. I mean we've gone the whole season basically without them and there hasn't been that many problems. It would just allow more athletes to wrestle.
It's not going to change Wade's mind, but I still agree. No fans isn't great, but it makes it easier for schools to say yes to hosting. Needs to happen.
Ghetto, I know you ran that JV tournament there at WFB. What does that cost to run? Custodians, table workers, refs, food, etc? Just curious what a school would realistically need to run a tournament.
Quote from: bulldog on January 11, 2021, 04:01:57 PM
Quote from: hornbuckleb on January 10, 2021, 06:32:01 PM
Quote from: bulldog on January 10, 2021, 05:45:19 PM
hornbuckleb...serious question here. What does the NFHS have to do with point 1 and 2?
Was not referring the points or hangups, only referring to your objections.
Got it...I assume your point is NFHS has set the 45 minute and 5 matches per day rule...right? So my first objection I overcome. I think (based on the math) we could run all the matches and still give 45 minutes between bouts - 6 mats, 826 matches (based on the 2020 state bracket sizes). So then we figure 15 minutes per match (that is liberal) - 4 bouts per hour per mat. You could bang through 52 bouts in 9 hours. Start at 10:00 am and done by 7:00 at night. Start at 9:00 am and give an hour lunch break. And we all know the dome in the Dells can handle more than 6 mats.
The 5 matches per day...that one I don't have an answer to. It only pertains to D1 and only if you lose win your first match and lose your second and then wrestle back to 3rd place (which probably doesn't happen much). The only answer I have is to change to first round loss and you are eliminated.
I think that would cover these objections...or am I looking at it wrong?
In the event that this would happen just skip that match and award 2 metals for that spot. I think that this would be very rare.
Baraboo is offering to take our Individual Sectional.
Looking at the Tournament Assignments it seems that D2 and D3 are in pretty good shape with host sites. Both D2 and D3 are missing a host in the southern parts of the sate - sectionals D. Combined they are only missing one Regional host which is very impressive.
D1 on the other hand is missing half of the locations for Regional Hosts, but surprisingly only is missing 2 out of the 8 Sectional Hosts.
Maybe this makes to much sense to just me, but if I was scheduling labor for a job I would probably look at my available resources and make a plan from there and not just stick to the same old plan.
Looking at D1 Regional Hosts first only Y/N
Sectional A
Regional I - Y
Regional II - Y
All Good
Sectional B
Regional I - N
Regional II - Y
Ask Ashwaubenon if they would be willing to host Regionals instead of a maybe for Sectionals
Sectional C
Regional I - Y
Regional II - N
Has to be either Portage or Sauk hosting if they can. No other options available due to Dane County
Sectional D
Regional I - N
Regional II - Y
Ask Hartford Union to host regionals instead of Sectionals
Sectional E
Regional I - N
Regional II - N
Fort Atkinson is your only choice left in Regional I as all other schools in Dane County. Ask Mukwonago to host regionals instead of sectionals or possibly both
Sectional F
Regional I - Y
Regional II - N
Ask Brookfield East to host regionals as well as sectionals
Sectional G
Regional I - Y
Regional II - Y
All good here
Sectional H
Regional I - N
Regional II - N
Big Trouble down here as we seen in the south eastern part of the state for D2 and D3
So here is the plan if something can be figured out in the south eastern part of the state.
Take the top 2 instead of 4 from each regional to advance to a combined Sectional with the top 2 advancing to state. Should make Wade happy as still only eight at state. He does not seem willing to budge on the number 8.
This is the same model currently being used/proposed for D2 and D3 and results in a reduction of 4 tournaments in D1
Section A & B North
Sectional Host Wausau East
Regionals
Eau Claire North
D. C. Everest
Ashwaubenon instead of hosting Sectional B
Kaukauna
Section C & D North Central
Sectional Host – Per Gundy Baraboo just offered
Regionals
Holmen
Has to be Portage or Sauk no other options
Hartford Union
West Bend West
Section E & F South Central
Sectional Host - either Mukwonago of Brookfield East
Regionals
Has to be Fort Atkinson - no other choices
Mukwonago - Regionals or Both
Nicolet
Brookfield East Sectionals or Both
Section G & H South
Sectional Host - New Berlin West
Regionals
Pewaukee
West Allis Central
?
?
If having the fans is related to the WIAA revenue I would propose the WIAA live stream on NFHS network for Regionals and Sectionals. Otherwise worst case 14 weights * 8 wrestlers per weight * 2 spectators per wrestler * $7 per spectator equals total gate money of $1,568 divided among the teams equals about $200 per team representing.
Quote from: hornbuckleb on January 12, 2021, 09:34:21 AM
Looking at the Tournament Assignments it seems that D2 and D3 are in pretty good shape with host sites. Both D2 and D3 are missing a host in the southern parts of the sate - sectionals D. Combined they are only missing one Regional host which is very impressive.
D1 on the other hand is missing half of the locations for Regional Hosts, but surprisingly only is missing 2 out of the 8 Sectional Hosts.
Maybe this makes to much sense to just me, but if I was scheduling labor for a job I would probably look at my available resources and make a plan from there and not just stick to the same old plan.
Looking at D1 Regional Hosts first only Y/N
Sectional A
Regional I - Y
Regional II - Y
All Good
Sectional B
Regional I - N
Regional II - Y
Ask Ashwaubenon if they would be willing to host Regionals instead of a maybe for Sectionals
Sectional C
Regional I - Y
Regional II - N
Has to be either Portage or Sauk hosting if they can. No other options available due to Dane County
Sectional D
Regional I - N
Regional II - Y
Ask Hartford Union to host regionals instead of Sectionals
Sectional E
Regional I - N
Regional II - N
Fort Atkinson is your only choice left in Regional I as all other schools in Dane County. Ask Mukwonago to host regionals instead of sectionals or possibly both
Sectional F
Regional I - Y
Regional II - N
Ask Brookfield East to host regionals as well as sectionals
Sectional G
Regional I - Y
Regional II - Y
All good here
Sectional H
Regional I - N
Regional II - N
Big Trouble down here as we seen in the south eastern part of the state for D2 and D3
So here is the plan if something can be figured out in the south eastern part of the state.
Take the top 2 instead of 4 from each regional to advance to a combined Sectional with the top 2 advancing to state. Should make Wade happy as still only eight at state. He does not seem willing to budge on the number 8.
This is the same model currently being used/proposed for D2 and D3 and results in a reduction of 4 tournaments in D1
Section A & B North
Sectional Host Wausau East
Regionals
Eau Claire North
D. C. Everest
Ashwaubenon instead of hosting Sectional B
Kaukauna
Section C & D North Central
Sectional Host – Per Gundy Baraboo just offered
Regionals
Holmen
Has to be Portage or Sauk no other options
Hartford Union
West Bend West
Section E & F South Central
Sectional Host - either Mukwonago of Brookfield East
Regionals
Has to be Fort Atkinson - no other choices
Mukwonago - Regionals or Both
Nicolet
Brookfield East Sectionals or Both
Section G & H South
Sectional Host - New Berlin West
Regionals
Pewaukee
West Allis Central
?
?
If having the fans is related to the WIAA revenue I would propose the WIAA live stream on NFHS network for Regionals and Sectionals. Otherwise worst case 14 weights * 8 wrestlers per weight * 2 spectators per wrestler * $7 per spectator equals total gate money of $1,568 divided among the teams equals about $200 per team representing.
Love your proposal!!!! Too bad you're dealing with the WIAA and the Wadester who wont budge on a Dang thing. Too much work for them. Even though it would take very little for this to happen. Maybe they'll shock us and think outside the box.
Nice job hornbuckleb...you seem to have a solid plan for the WIAA to look at. Sadly I don't think they will. And if the fan thing is about $$ it is easy...livestream on the WIAA website and charge to join. They would probably pick up some people that would not go to regionals in a normal year. And I have three screens. I would pay to watch three regionals...if they did a good job covering all the mats. That is what would kick their butts. To livestream 4-6 mats possible would be outside of their skill set. But trackwrestling could do it...
Everything is just more difficult with wrestling. LOL
Typically an event has to set up one camera to stream one court or field or rink. For wrestling streaming is much more difficult requiring at least 3 cameras and then all the tech set up to get the video out live.
Streaming every match at regionals and sectionals will be a huge undertaking that I don't think even trackwrestling could accomplish.
Not sure if each host could handle on their own youtube channels? or would it have to be run through a pay site like NFHS? If you run it through a pay site that brings on need of more manpower and tech wisdom
Quote from: DocWrestling on January 12, 2021, 11:28:40 AM
Everything is just more difficult with wrestling. LOL
Typically an event has to set up one camera to stream one court or field or rink. For wrestling streaming is much more difficult requiring at least 3 cameras and then all the tech set up to get the video out live.
Streaming every match at regionals and sectionals will be a huge undertaking that I don't think even trackwrestling could accomplish.
Not sure if each host could handle on their own youtube channels? or would it have to be run through a pay site like NFHS? If you run it through a pay site that brings on need of more manpower and tech wisdom
Trackwrestling streams 20+ mats at tournaments on a regular basis. Streaming 3-4 mats at a regional would not be an issue for Trackwresting at all.
I believe the WIAA is still locked in with NFHS network. So they would need to use there services which I believe is $10.99 a month.
If the whole spectator thing is what prevents the post season, I seriously have to question the ethics and morals of the WIAA.
If they only followed the D1 model above vs. the suspected WIAA direction for D1, they could reduce the theoretical contact exposure by 260%.
D1 Regionals and Sectionals using proposed format without spectators = 2240 people possible (not considering coaches and tournament officials)
D1 Regionals and Sectionals following the WIAA suspected format and 2 spectators per wrestler = 8056 people possible (not considering coaches and tournament officials)
(8056-2240)/2240 = 260%
hornbuckleb...not sure what the WIAA contract with NFHS but trackwrestling seems to be at regionals, sectionals and state from a bracketing standpoint. So would they be able to utilize them for streaming? Probably more of a question for track...they may not have the equipment to undertake regionals with so many locations
Quote from: bulldog on January 12, 2021, 12:08:23 PM
hornbuckleb...not sure what the WIAA contract with NFHS but trackwrestling seems to be at regionals, sectionals and state from a bracketing standpoint. So would they be able to utilize them for streaming? Probably more of a question for track...they may not have the equipment to undertake regionals with so many locations
Track has the resources to easily accomplish this.
Trackwrestling needs volunteers to set up the cameras, man the cameras, etc. Everything trackwrestling does is done by the local tournament committee. At least it used to be. It is not like they have the manpower to send out cameramen and production crews to all these tournaments. They provide the technology to broadcast and stream it through their website but really the tournament provides the cameras, computers, etc.
Typically the camera is just manned by a club volunteer helping out the tournament.
My point is that trackwrestling does not provide cameramen or the cameras to cover every mat that stream on their website. It is just like using their software for the tournament management and bracketing. That is not done by trackwrestling. That is done by a volunteer for the local club.
Quote from: DocWrestling on January 12, 2021, 01:56:34 PM
Trackwrestling needs volunteers to set up the cameras, man the cameras, etc. Everything trackwrestling does is done by the local tournament committee. At least it used to be. It is not like they have the manpower to send out cameramen and production crews to all these tournaments. They provide the technology to broadcast and stream it through their website but really the tournament provides the cameras, computers, etc.
Typically the camera is just manned by a club volunteer helping out the tournament.
My point is that trackwrestling does not provide cameramen or the cameras to cover every mat that stream on their website. It is just like using their software for the tournament management and bracketing. That is not done by trackwrestling. That is done by a volunteer for the local club.
Which is easy to do. Every location that is willing and wanting to host a regional/sectional has people familiar with Track from their own local youth tournaments. Almost guaranteed.
Quote from: DocWrestling on January 12, 2021, 01:56:34 PM
Trackwrestling needs volunteers to set up the cameras, man the cameras, etc. Everything trackwrestling does is done by the local tournament committee. At least it used to be. It is not like they have the manpower to send out cameramen and production crews to all these tournaments. They provide the technology to broadcast and stream it through their website but really the tournament provides the cameras, computers, etc.
Typically the camera is just manned by a club volunteer helping out the tournament.
My point is that trackwrestling does not provide cameramen or the cameras to cover every mat that stream on their website. It is just like using their software for the tournament management and bracketing. That is not done by trackwrestling. That is done by a volunteer for the local club.
I volunteer if family is not allowed :)
When we do the livestream for Bi-State, the cameras come from Track. Along with all the chords and such to do the streaming from your laptop. But not all your media chords to each table.
It is quite the undertaking at tournaments like the holiday tournaments or when we did it at the Marty Loy/FDL Invite. But track gave us support and we also had Jeff Jones. That makes it run smooth because they are awesome at this stuff.
Streaming three mats is much easier logistically but is also not easy unless you have a pretty good tech guru and someone that knows trackwrestling and have the equipment from cameras to computers. Streaming from gyms using the wifi can be iffy so it sometimes takes network cables to each mat also.
It can be done but it would be a huge undertaking at so many regionals. It would be much easier for the local school to stream on their youtube channels like they have been all year for all sports. Not sure what the issues would be with trying to stream three different video feeds from different mats on the same youtube channel.
Point is that it can be done and HAS TO BE DONE. But if required it can be another possible hangup when a school is trying to decide if they should host.
I don't care what anyone says but if we run the tournaments normal and allow 2 fans per wrestler it really is not going to change the course of this Covid-19 pandemic in any way. Been laughing with a lot of people about how organizations and the WIAA are overthinking and overanalyzing everything. Like somehow eliminating jump balls in basketball is saving us all. Basketball players can practice against each other and compete on the court but when on the bench they all have to sit 6 ft apart. LOL!
Quote from: DocWrestling on January 12, 2021, 07:39:41 PM
It is quite the undertaking at tournaments like the holiday tournaments or when we did it at the Marty Loy/FDL Invite. But track gave us support and we also had Jeff Jones. That makes it run smooth because they are awesome at this stuff.
Streaming three mats is much easier logistically but is also not easy unless you have a pretty good tech guru and someone that knows trackwrestling and have the equipment from cameras to computers. Streaming from gyms using the wifi can be iffy so it sometimes takes network cables to each mat also.
It can be done but it would be a huge undertaking at so many regionals. It would be much easier for the local school to stream on their youtube channels like they have been all year for all sports. Not sure what the issues would be with trying to stream three different video feeds from different mats on the same youtube channel.
Point is that it can be done and HAS TO BE DONE. But if required it can be another possible hangup when a school is trying to decide if they should host.
I don't care what anyone says but if we run the tournaments normal and allow 2 fans per wrestler it really is not going to change the course of this Covid-19 pandemic in any way. Been laughing with a lot of people about how organizations and the WIAA are overthinking and overanalyzing everything. Like somehow eliminating jump balls in basketball is saving us all. Basketball players can practice against each other and compete on the court but when on the bench they all have to sit 6 ft apart. LOL!
Great post! I love the common sense. Lost art these days.
Quote from: BackwardsHatAttack on January 13, 2021, 07:25:07 AM
On WIAA Website. Hopefully there are finally some answers today..... ???
1/13/2021 8:30 AM - 3:00 PM
Sports Advisory Committee
Sports Advisory Committee Meeting
Crossing my fingers!
Quote from: DocWrestling on January 12, 2021, 07:39:41 PM
It is quite the undertaking at tournaments like the holiday tournaments or when we did it at the Marty Loy/FDL Invite. But track gave us support and we also had Jeff Jones. That makes it run smooth because they are awesome at this stuff.
Streaming three mats is much easier logistically but is also not easy unless you have a pretty good tech guru and someone that knows trackwrestling and have the equipment from cameras to computers. Streaming from gyms using the wifi can be iffy so it sometimes takes network cables to each mat also.
It can be done but it would be a huge undertaking at so many regionals. It would be much easier for the local school to stream on their youtube channels like they have been all year for all sports. Not sure what the issues would be with trying to stream three different video feeds from different mats on the same youtube channel.
Point is that it can be done and HAS TO BE DONE. But if required it can be another possible hangup when a school is trying to decide if they should host.
I don't care what anyone says but if we run the tournaments normal and allow 2 fans per wrestler it really is not going to change the course of this Covid-19 pandemic in any way. Been laughing with a lot of people about how organizations and the WIAA are overthinking and overanalyzing everything. Like somehow eliminating jump balls in basketball is saving us all. Basketball players can practice against each other and compete on the court but when on the bench they all have to sit 6 ft apart. LOL!
Doc...your points are dead on.
Neenah streamed two mats last week and did a pretty good job. My main complaint would be one scoreboard did not show the team score and the weight class wrestling. Don't know what it took to pull off but I bet Kyle could share how they did it.
Mat 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ2yePiKu0M&t=8766s
Mat 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bGfaFL1CS8&t=1s
I'm a little curious about why (according to doc) video HAS to be done? Can't wrestling happen without it? Will it change the course of the matches or our future?
It's a luxury.
Sometimes parents simply can't watch an event. It has happened and does happen all the time. Be it a timing issue, work issue, distance issue. Events happen because of the competition FOR the athletes. The ability to watch it happen is extra. Just a few years ago if a kid went off to wrestle in college, the odds of any event being on video was not probable. Parents that couldn't attend the events simply had to wait for a phone call or some other form of communication about how things went. And life went on without a hiccup. All of us wrestled without video streaming, and for at least a lot of us, parents didn't or couldn't watch.
We all want to watch our kids if possible, but sometimes it just isn't possible. And that's ok.
So if it can work out for parents to attend, or for video, or both, great. If not, they will still compete and there will still be an outcome.
Not every school may have the capabilities, resources and persons to stream everything. OH. WELL. Let's just wrestle, because the reality is that this year, some are not going to be able to do that. Video isn't critical.
You are right. It is not critical and certainly should not be a reason to not hold a normal state tournament series. I think most parents would be fine with a normal state tournament series with no fans and no streaming. Would take nothing for teammates/manager to record the matches so parents and fans can watch them later. Most do that anyway
Apples and Oranges. The opportunity was still there to watch if they wanted/could. Now if you take video away, you take away any opportunity to watch your child wrestle. I agree 100% that this is about the kids and letting them wrestle, but there still has to be an opportunity for parents to watch. Right now video is that opportunity.
My understanding is that there are no team sectionals proposed for this year. The teams that win the individual sectional tournaments will be going to team state, there are no other qualifiers for team state. I believe it was proposed this way to avoid the 7 day between match requirement as well as to avoid the need for another school to host. Again, not ideal, but it does give an opportunity. If I remember correctly when team state first started, teams qualified this way as well.
Quote from: Motion on January 13, 2021, 10:28:51 AM
My understanding is that there are no team sectionals proposed for this year. The teams that win the individual sectional tournaments will be going to team state, there are no other qualifiers for team state. I believe it was proposed this way to avoid the 7 day between match requirement as well as to avoid the need for another school to host. Again, not ideal, but it does give an opportunity. If I remember correctly when team state first started, teams qualified this way as well.
I believe that is the direction but that is about as stupid as you can go. Deciding a team tournament with something less than a full team. Happy there is a tournament but the best team doesn't always win sectionals. Luxemburg Casco 2018 Team State champs did not win the sectional. The following year Freedom did win both sectionals and State but they won sectionals by 2.5 points and won the dual with LC by more than 20pts I believe.
Quote from: Handles II on January 13, 2021, 09:52:39 AM
I'm a little curious about why (according to doc) video HAS to be done? Can't wrestling happen without it? Will it change the course of the matches or our future?
It's a luxury.
Sometimes parents simply can't watch an event. It has happened and does happen all the time. Be it a timing issue, work issue, distance issue. Events happen because of the competition FOR the athletes. The ability to watch it happen is extra. Just a few years ago if a kid went off to wrestle in college, the odds of any event being on video was not probable. Parents that couldn't attend the events simply had to wait for a phone call or some other form of communication about how things went. And life went on without a hiccup. All of us wrestled without video streaming, and for at least a lot of us, parents didn't or couldn't watch.
We all want to watch our kids if possible, but sometimes it just isn't possible. And that's ok.
So if it can work out for parents to attend, or for video, or both, great. If not, they will still compete and there will still be an outcome.
Not every school may have the capabilities, resources and persons to stream everything. OH. WELL. Let's just wrestle, because the reality is that this year, some are not going to be able to do that. Video isn't critical.
I don't think Doc meant "has to" as in this is a deal breaker. I think he meant it more as this is a pretty important item. There was a time a lot of things didn't happen...but then things were invented and made life better. We used to wait for Crossface magazine to come out to see what the rankings looked like. Now we can debate it daily. Today's technology makes livestreaming tournaments a pretty low tech and easy process. If a team isn't then they really are not trying.
Turning on 2-3 cameras, setting up a youtube channel and turning on the camera could probably be handled by most MS students these days. Including scores and updates may take a HS student. We have spent so much time debating the decline of wrestling and now when there is a chance to step up and promote the sport it seems to be too much effort.
D1 still needs 8 regional sites!!!! Unbelievable.
Any discussion about what happens if those sites are not filled? Is D1 as a whole canceled? Just the sites that don't find a host are canceled? With only 2 weeks until regionals you'd think these kind of issues would be solved by now.
Quote from: bulldog on January 13, 2021, 12:00:23 PM
Quote from: Handles II on January 13, 2021, 09:52:39 AM
I'm a little curious about why (according to doc) video HAS to be done? Can't wrestling happen without it? Will it change the course of the matches or our future?
It's a luxury.
Sometimes parents simply can't watch an event. It has happened and does happen all the time. Be it a timing issue, work issue, distance issue. Events happen because of the competition FOR the athletes. The ability to watch it happen is extra. Just a few years ago if a kid went off to wrestle in college, the odds of any event being on video was not probable. Parents that couldn't attend the events simply had to wait for a phone call or some other form of communication about how things went. And life went on without a hiccup. All of us wrestled without video streaming, and for at least a lot of us, parents didn't or couldn't watch.
We all want to watch our kids if possible, but sometimes it just isn't possible. And that's ok.
So if it can work out for parents to attend, or for video, or both, great. If not, they will still compete and there will still be an outcome.
Not every school may have the capabilities, resources and persons to stream everything. OH. WELL. Let's just wrestle, because the reality is that this year, some are not going to be able to do that. Video isn't critical.
I don't think Doc meant "has to" as in this is a deal breaker. I think he meant it more as this is a pretty important item. There was a time a lot of things didn't happen...but then things were invented and made life better. We used to wait for Crossface magazine to come out to see what the rankings looked like. Now we can debate it daily. Today's technology makes livestreaming tournaments a pretty low tech and easy process. If a team isn't then they really are not trying.
Turning on 2-3 cameras, setting up a youtube channel and turning on the camera could probably be handled by most MS students these days. Including scores and updates may take a HS student. We have spent so much time debating the decline of wrestling and now when there is a chance to step up and promote the sport it seems to be too much effort.
I'm quite aware of technology, thanks. However if you really think that most MS students can handle streaming video, you obviously haven't been teaching virtual classes to MS students. They can play games all day, but ask them to attach a photo to a google doc and they don't have a clue. Streaming video isn't really going to promote the sport. The only people who will watch it are the people with a dog in the fight. Random kids won't even be aware it's happening. Thus the importance very limited in the scope of getting these tournaments completed especially for this particular year. If a school has a staff of tech-savy kids or parents willing to video, awesome.
Quote from: Handles II on January 13, 2021, 12:16:22 PM
Quote from: bulldog on January 13, 2021, 12:00:23 PM
Quote from: Handles II on January 13, 2021, 09:52:39 AM
I'm a little curious about why (according to doc) video HAS to be done? Can't wrestling happen without it? Will it change the course of the matches or our future?
It's a luxury.
Sometimes parents simply can't watch an event. It has happened and does happen all the time. Be it a timing issue, work issue, distance issue. Events happen because of the competition FOR the athletes. The ability to watch it happen is extra. Just a few years ago if a kid went off to wrestle in college, the odds of any event being on video was not probable. Parents that couldn't attend the events simply had to wait for a phone call or some other form of communication about how things went. And life went on without a hiccup. All of us wrestled without video streaming, and for at least a lot of us, parents didn't or couldn't watch.
We all want to watch our kids if possible, but sometimes it just isn't possible. And that's ok.
So if it can work out for parents to attend, or for video, or both, great. If not, they will still compete and there will still be an outcome.
Not every school may have the capabilities, resources and persons to stream everything. OH. WELL. Let's just wrestle, because the reality is that this year, some are not going to be able to do that. Video isn't critical.
I don't think Doc meant "has to" as in this is a deal breaker. I think he meant it more as this is a pretty important item. There was a time a lot of things didn't happen...but then things were invented and made life better. We used to wait for Crossface magazine to come out to see what the rankings looked like. Now we can debate it daily. Today's technology makes livestreaming tournaments a pretty low tech and easy process. If a team isn't then they really are not trying.
Turning on 2-3 cameras, setting up a youtube channel and turning on the camera could probably be handled by most MS students these days. Including scores and updates may take a HS student. We have spent so much time debating the decline of wrestling and now when there is a chance to step up and promote the sport it seems to be too much effort.
I'm quite aware of technology, thanks. However if you really think that most MS students can handle streaming video, you obviously haven't been teaching virtual classes to MS students. They can play games all day, but ask them to attach a photo to a google doc and they don't have a clue. Streaming video isn't really going to promote the sport. The only people who will watch it are the people with a dog in the fight. Random kids won't even be aware it's happening. Thus the importance very limited in the scope of getting these tournaments completed especially for this particular year. If a school has a staff of tech-savy kids or parents willing to video, awesome.
You couldn't be farther from the truth. Streaming wrestling will and does promote the sport. You think only 2-4 people for each wrestler are interested in watching the regional/sectional/state tournaments??? If so that shows how much we should value your opinion. No one will be aware it is happening if we don't stream it and let people watch. Having the state series is more important than streaming it, but we can't do both? Maybe your unable to handles but I can walk and chew gum at the same time.
Quote from: bigoil on January 13, 2021, 11:53:42 AM
Quote from: Motion on January 13, 2021, 10:28:51 AM
Welcome to the world of the WIAA...where each decision tries to outdo the previous stupid decision.
My understanding is that there are no team sectionals proposed for this year. The teams that win the individual sectional tournaments will be going to team state, there are no other qualifiers for team state. I believe it was proposed this way to avoid the 7 day between match requirement as well as to avoid the need for another school to host. Again, not ideal, but it does give an opportunity. If I remember correctly when team state first started, teams qualified this way as well.
I believe that is the direction but that is about as stupid as you can go. Deciding a team tournament with something less than a full team. Happy there is a tournament but the best team doesn't always win sectionals. Luxemburg Casco 2018 Team State champs did not win the sectional. The following year Freedom did win both sectionals and State but they won sectionals by 2.5 points and won the dual with LC by more than 20pts I believe.
Quote from: wrastle63 on January 13, 2021, 12:40:42 PM
Quote from: Handles II on January 13, 2021, 12:16:22 PM
Quote from: bulldog on January 13, 2021, 12:00:23 PM
Quote from: Handles II on January 13, 2021, 09:52:39 AM
I'm a little curious about why (according to doc) video HAS to be done? Can't wrestling happen without it? Will it change the course of the matches or our future?
It's a luxury.
Sometimes parents simply can't watch an event. It has happened and does happen all the time. Be it a timing issue, work issue, distance issue. Events happen because of the competition FOR the athletes. The ability to watch it happen is extra. Just a few years ago if a kid went off to wrestle in college, the odds of any event being on video was not probable. Parents that couldn't attend the events simply had to wait for a phone call or some other form of communication about how things went. And life went on without a hiccup. All of us wrestled without video streaming, and for at least a lot of us, parents didn't or couldn't watch.
We all want to watch our kids if possible, but sometimes it just isn't possible. And that's ok.
So if it can work out for parents to attend, or for video, or both, great. If not, they will still compete and there will still be an outcome.
Not every school may have the capabilities, resources and persons to stream everything. OH. WELL. Let's just wrestle, because the reality is that this year, some are not going to be able to do that. Video isn't critical.
I don't think Doc meant "has to" as in this is a deal breaker. I think he meant it more as this is a pretty important item. There was a time a lot of things didn't happen...but then things were invented and made life better. We used to wait for Crossface magazine to come out to see what the rankings looked like. Now we can debate it daily. Today's technology makes livestreaming tournaments a pretty low tech and easy process. If a team isn't then they really are not trying.
Turning on 2-3 cameras, setting up a youtube channel and turning on the camera could probably be handled by most MS students these days. Including scores and updates may take a HS student. We have spent so much time debating the decline of wrestling and now when there is a chance to step up and promote the sport it seems to be too much effort.
I'm quite aware of technology, thanks. However if you really think that most MS students can handle streaming video, you obviously haven't been teaching virtual classes to MS students. They can play games all day, but ask them to attach a photo to a google doc and they don't have a clue. Streaming video isn't really going to promote the sport. The only people who will watch it are the people with a dog in the fight. Random kids won't even be aware it's happening. Thus the importance very limited in the scope of getting these tournaments completed especially for this particular year. If a school has a staff of tech-savy kids or parents willing to video, awesome.
You couldn't be farther from the truth. Streaming wrestling will and does promote the sport. You think only 2-4 people for each wrestler are interested in watching the regional/sectional/state tournaments??? If so that shows how much we should value your opinion. No one will be aware it is happening if we don't stream it and let people watch. Having the state series is more important than streaming it, but we can't do both? Maybe your unable to handles but I can walk and chew gum at the same time.
Streaming wrestling doesn't promote the sport....yet there are three services doing it and making money and growing followers/subscribers. Flowrestling, Rokfin, Trackwrestling. Seems like it is promoting it to me as their users increase.
Quote from: Handles II on January 13, 2021, 12:16:22 PM
Quote from: bulldog on January 13, 2021, 12:00:23 PM
Quote from: Handles II on January 13, 2021, 09:52:39 AM
I'm a little curious about why (according to doc) video HAS to be done? Can't wrestling happen without it? Will it change the course of the matches or our future?
It's a luxury.
Sometimes parents simply can't watch an event. It has happened and does happen all the time. Be it a timing issue, work issue, distance issue. Events happen because of the competition FOR the athletes. The ability to watch it happen is extra. Just a few years ago if a kid went off to wrestle in college, the odds of any event being on video was not probable. Parents that couldn't attend the events simply had to wait for a phone call or some other form of communication about how things went. And life went on without a hiccup. All of us wrestled without video streaming, and for at least a lot of us, parents didn't or couldn't watch.
We all want to watch our kids if possible, but sometimes it just isn't possible. And that's ok.
So if it can work out for parents to attend, or for video, or both, great. If not, they will still compete and there will still be an outcome.
Not every school may have the capabilities, resources and persons to stream everything. OH. WELL. Let's just wrestle, because the reality is that this year, some are not going to be able to do that. Video isn't critical.
I don't think Doc meant "has to" as in this is a deal breaker. I think he meant it more as this is a pretty important item. There was a time a lot of things didn't happen...but then things were invented and made life better. We used to wait for Crossface magazine to come out to see what the rankings looked like. Now we can debate it daily. Today's technology makes livestreaming tournaments a pretty low tech and easy process. If a team isn't then they really are not trying.
Turning on 2-3 cameras, setting up a youtube channel and turning on the camera could probably be handled by most MS students these days. Including scores and updates may take a HS student. We have spent so much time debating the decline of wrestling and now when there is a chance to step up and promote the sport it seems to be too much effort.
I'm quite aware of technology, thanks. However if you really think that most MS students can handle streaming video, you obviously haven't been teaching virtual classes to MS students. They can play games all day, but ask them to attach a photo to a google doc and they don't have a clue. Streaming video isn't really going to promote the sport. The only people who will watch it are the people with a dog in the fight. Random kids won't even be aware it's happening. Thus the importance very limited in the scope of getting these tournaments completed especially for this particular year. If a school has a staff of tech-savy kids or parents willing to video, awesome.
HandlesII...I challenge your opinion on this topic. My youngest (not the tech geek) set up a virtual martial arts class when he was in 8th grade and streamed lessons daily for kids that could not make it to class. He did it on his own...he figured it out. That was 8 years ago. Tech has advanced quite a bit since then. Second...EVERY school district has an AV person or an IT person. If they don't I can find dozens of tech guys that could walk anyone through the process. I saw live matches this year on facebook through one parents cell phone. Does it have to be harder than that?
As for having a "dog in the fight"...wrong...I don't have anybody in wrestling this year...I have watched more wrestling this year because of livestream than I have for the past 2 years. My dad (86 years old) has not been to a live match for 8 years. He had my sister set up his computer so he can watch matches. If you believe the only people that will watch the sport are the people currently in the sport then it would be doomed to die. Know how radom kids become aware? Have the sport easily accessible. Facebook is a perfect example. Post photos and videos of kids on the team, tag the kids, their friends see they are tagged and suddenly you have an interest. YEAH...it is that easy. There are 1800 followers on CWW facebook page. I will wager many of them do not currently have a dog in the fight. But they do interact with information posted there.
Quote from: wrastle63 on January 13, 2021, 12:40:42 PM
Quote from: Handles II on January 13, 2021, 12:16:22 PM
Quote from: bulldog on January 13, 2021, 12:00:23 PM
Quote from: Handles II on January 13, 2021, 09:52:39 AM
I'm a little curious about why (according to doc) video HAS to be done? Can't wrestling happen without it? Will it change the course of the matches or our future?
It's a luxury.
Sometimes parents simply can't watch an event. It has happened and does happen all the time. Be it a timing issue, work issue, distance issue. Events happen because of the competition FOR the athletes. The ability to watch it happen is extra. Just a few years ago if a kid went off to wrestle in college, the odds of any event being on video was not probable. Parents that couldn't attend the events simply had to wait for a phone call or some other form of communication about how things went. And life went on without a hiccup. All of us wrestled without video streaming, and for at least a lot of us, parents didn't or couldn't watch.
We all want to watch our kids if possible, but sometimes it just isn't possible. And that's ok.
So if it can work out for parents to attend, or for video, or both, great. If not, they will still compete and there will still be an outcome.
Not every school may have the capabilities, resources and persons to stream everything. OH. WELL. Let's just wrestle, because the reality is that this year, some are not going to be able to do that. Video isn't critical.
I don't think Doc meant "has to" as in this is a deal breaker. I think he meant it more as this is a pretty important item. There was a time a lot of things didn't happen...but then things were invented and made life better. We used to wait for Crossface magazine to come out to see what the rankings looked like. Now we can debate it daily. Today's technology makes livestreaming tournaments a pretty low tech and easy process. If a team isn't then they really are not trying.
Turning on 2-3 cameras, setting up a youtube channel and turning on the camera could probably be handled by most MS students these days. Including scores and updates may take a HS student. We have spent so much time debating the decline of wrestling and now when there is a chance to step up and promote the sport it seems to be too much effort.
I'm quite aware of technology, thanks. However if you really think that most MS students can handle streaming video, you obviously haven't been teaching virtual classes to MS students. They can play games all day, but ask them to attach a photo to a google doc and they don't have a clue. Streaming video isn't really going to promote the sport. The only people who will watch it are the people with a dog in the fight. Random kids won't even be aware it's happening. Thus the importance very limited in the scope of getting these tournaments completed especially for this particular year. If a school has a staff of tech-savy kids or parents willing to video, awesome.
You couldn't be farther from the truth. Streaming wrestling will and does promote the sport. You think only 2-4 people for each wrestler are interested in watching the regional/sectional/state tournaments??? If so that shows how much we should value your opinion. No one will be aware it is happening if we don't stream it and let people watch. Having the state series is more important than streaming it, but we can't do both? Maybe your unable to handles but I can walk and chew gum at the same time.
Um, yeah... So you are thinking that thousands of pre-teens across our state are going to find out about these regionals somehow (like go to a high school webpage to 'see what's happening'), watch it, and join the sport??? Bahahahahaha! A 5 minute highlights video of people from their team streamed on tiktok, yes, possibly. A 5 hour long live version mostly of kids they've never heard of livestreamed? As Aerosmith said, Dream On.
Quote from: Handles II on January 13, 2021, 02:22:36 PM
Quote from: wrastle63 on January 13, 2021, 12:40:42 PM
Quote from: Handles II on January 13, 2021, 12:16:22 PM
Quote from: bulldog on January 13, 2021, 12:00:23 PM
Quote from: Handles II on January 13, 2021, 09:52:39 AM
I'm a little curious about why (according to doc) video HAS to be done? Can't wrestling happen without it? Will it change the course of the matches or our future?
It's a luxury.
Sometimes parents simply can't watch an event. It has happened and does happen all the time. Be it a timing issue, work issue, distance issue. Events happen because of the competition FOR the athletes. The ability to watch it happen is extra. Just a few years ago if a kid went off to wrestle in college, the odds of any event being on video was not probable. Parents that couldn't attend the events simply had to wait for a phone call or some other form of communication about how things went. And life went on without a hiccup. All of us wrestled without video streaming, and for at least a lot of us, parents didn't or couldn't watch.
We all want to watch our kids if possible, but sometimes it just isn't possible. And that's ok.
So if it can work out for parents to attend, or for video, or both, great. If not, they will still compete and there will still be an outcome.
Not every school may have the capabilities, resources and persons to stream everything. OH. WELL. Let's just wrestle, because the reality is that this year, some are not going to be able to do that. Video isn't critical.
I don't think Doc meant "has to" as in this is a deal breaker. I think he meant it more as this is a pretty important item. There was a time a lot of things didn't happen...but then things were invented and made life better. We used to wait for Crossface magazine to come out to see what the rankings looked like. Now we can debate it daily. Today's technology makes livestreaming tournaments a pretty low tech and easy process. If a team isn't then they really are not trying.
Turning on 2-3 cameras, setting up a youtube channel and turning on the camera could probably be handled by most MS students these days. Including scores and updates may take a HS student. We have spent so much time debating the decline of wrestling and now when there is a chance to step up and promote the sport it seems to be too much effort.
I'm quite aware of technology, thanks. However if you really think that most MS students can handle streaming video, you obviously haven't been teaching virtual classes to MS students. They can play games all day, but ask them to attach a photo to a google doc and they don't have a clue. Streaming video isn't really going to promote the sport. The only people who will watch it are the people with a dog in the fight. Random kids won't even be aware it's happening. Thus the importance very limited in the scope of getting these tournaments completed especially for this particular year. If a school has a staff of tech-savy kids or parents willing to video, awesome.
You couldn't be farther from the truth. Streaming wrestling will and does promote the sport. You think only 2-4 people for each wrestler are interested in watching the regional/sectional/state tournaments??? If so that shows how much we should value your opinion. No one will be aware it is happening if we don't stream it and let people watch. Having the state series is more important than streaming it, but we can't do both? Maybe your unable to handles but I can walk and chew gum at the same time.
Um, yeah... So you are thinking that thousands of pre-teens across our state are going to find out about these regionals somehow (like go to a high school webpage to 'see what's happening'), watch it, and join the sport??? Bahahahahaha! A 5 minute highlights video of people from their team streamed on tiktok, yes, possibly. A 5 hour long live version mostly of kids they've never heard of livestreamed? As Aerosmith said, Dream On.
I am from a smaller school and our last dual had over 300 views. We don't get close to 300 people attending duals. As Ron White said "You can't fix stupid". Clearly he was right.
While it may not reach many, it might reach a few. Anything that grows the sport (and this takes very little effort) is worth it.
I do feel much less smart having read some posts about the value of streaming the state series...ugh...it is almost as if someone is purposely writing that stuff just to get a reaction?
Any word on the post season tournament from today's meeting?
HandlesII...first your statement proves you don't know what you are talking about. TikTok videos can only be 60 seconds long. Not 5 minutes. They may have introduced 3 minute videos but I don't think yet...sooo...
Second...the topic was what does it take to stream to youtube...anyone with an Ipad or cell phone can livestream to facebook or youtube. It isn't hard. The quality of the image takes some good equipment but most cell phones have better cameras then many larger digital cameras.
Third - thousands of pre-teens? Probably not. inappropriate term3...I think we would take anything. What would it hurt if we streamed meets and got 50 pre-teens? And what evidence do you have that wrestling wouldn't? I can stand on my background to indicate we would.
I am thinking of what it takes to market a product. Do you think any product is marketed with the expectation that everyone it reaches will instantly become a user of that product? I assume from your comment you do not have basic marketing/promotional/sales understanding so I will try to keep this very basic for you. Try to stay with me...there are numbers here so I don't want to lose you.
Neenah HS livestreamed their quad meet last week. According to Youtube stats there were 1,775 views. Consider the people that had a "dog in the fight". 4 teams, 14 weight classes. That would be 112 parents interested (assuming none of them were at the quad...which is not true). But let's double that to include grandparents or other interested family members that want to watch their dog in the fight. That bumps us to 224. inappropriate term3...let's say 300 interested because someone they know was actually competing.
That leaves 1,475 views. I will take out half because they may have been duplicates bringing me down to 737 unique viewers. Based on most marketing models I can expect to get 10% new adopters to my established marketing. But let's drop that to 1%. 1% would be a possibility of 7 new people. That is from one evening of one quad meet.
Wittenberg-Birnamwood had their 12/15/20 meet streamed on Facebook - 1.4K views. That is from one two team meet
How many meets happen every week? 300 teams in the state means 150 meets. If each meet averages HALF that is 700 views per team and 105,000 total views per week. 8 meets in a season would be 840,000 impressions in one season. That does not include tournaments. 1% is 8,400 possible new people exposed to the sport.
Not saying they will join but basic math indicates this would be the exposure to new people.
OR...how about nothing happens. The wrestling community refuses to try something new. This forum continues to be a place to whine about losing numbers and inappropriate term1 that the only way to grow the sport is to reduce numbers? So far that has worked well...hasn't it?
I agree that live streaming dual meets should be a standard going forward. That is probably the only positive that has come out of this situation. My son just texted me that D2 Regionals are official on and that each athlete is allowed 2 spectators.
Quote from: 400excracer on January 13, 2021, 03:41:57 PM
I agree that live streaming dual meets should be a standard going forward. That is probably the only positive that has come out of this situation. My son just texted me that D2 Regionals are official on and that each athlete is allowed 2 spectators.
I think that is going to depend on the host of the Regional. Pretty sure I saw that Kiel is hosting Regionals AND Sectionals and the only people that get to watch in person are the volunteers.
I am certainly hoping that streaming live events of all sports allowing more viewers and also people to watch it later delayed becomes standard after this season. Some schools were already doing it and now hopefully all will do.
We have been watching club volleyball matches by having team manager film the matches live and broadcast on Facebook Live. Very easy and works well but not everyone is on Facebook and then they need to be friends. YouTube is a much better venue
Quote from: Motion on January 13, 2021, 10:28:51 AM
My understanding is that there are no team sectionals proposed for this year. The teams that win the individual sectional tournaments will be going to team state, there are no other qualifiers for team state. I believe it was proposed this way to avoid the 7 day between match requirement as well as to avoid the need for another school to host. Again, not ideal, but it does give an opportunity. If I remember correctly when team state first started, teams qualified this way as well.
[/quote
I don't think anyone will beat Wrightstown in D2 but teams at that regional will be leaving some good kids home that now can't score at sectionals. To hang on to this 7 day thing is just ridiculous.
Quote from: 400excracer on January 13, 2021, 03:41:57 PM
I agree that live streaming dual meets should be a standard going forward. That is probably the only positive that has come out of this situation. My son just texted me that D2 Regionals are official on and that each athlete is allowed 2 spectators.
That really has turned out to be one positive during this period. Parents love those live streamed events. Even if/when we get back to normal, more casual fans will watch at home.
Quote from: bulldog on January 13, 2021, 03:26:18 PM
HandlesII...first your statement proves you don't know what you are talking about. TikTok videos can only be 60 seconds long. Not 5 minutes. They may have introduced 3 minute videos but I don't think yet...sooo...
Second...the topic was what does it take to stream to youtube...anyone with an Ipad or cell phone can livestream to facebook or youtube. It isn't hard. The quality of the image takes some good equipment but most cell phones have better cameras then many larger digital cameras.
Third - thousands of pre-teens? Probably not. inappropriate term3...I think we would take anything. What would it hurt if we streamed meets and got 50 pre-teens? And what evidence do you have that wrestling wouldn't? I can stand on my background to indicate we would.
I am thinking of what it takes to market a product. Do you think any product is marketed with the expectation that everyone it reaches will instantly become a user of that product? I assume from your comment you do not have basic marketing/promotional/sales understanding so I will try to keep this very basic for you. Try to stay with me...there are numbers here so I don't want to lose you.
Neenah HS livestreamed their quad meet last week. According to Youtube stats there were 1,775 views. Consider the people that had a "dog in the fight". 4 teams, 14 weight classes. That would be 112 parents interested (assuming none of them were at the quad...which is not true). But let's double that to include grandparents or other interested family members that want to watch their dog in the fight. That bumps us to 224. inappropriate term3...let's say 300 interested because someone they know was actually competing.
That leaves 1,475 views. I will take out half because they may have been duplicates bringing me down to 737 unique viewers. Based on most marketing models I can expect to get 10% new adopters to my established marketing. But let's drop that to 1%. 1% would be a possibility of 7 new people. That is from one evening of one quad meet.
Wittenberg-Birnamwood had their 12/15/20 meet streamed on Facebook - 1.4K views. That is from one two team meet
How many meets happen every week? 300 teams in the state means 150 meets. If each meet averages HALF that is 700 views per team and 105,000 total views per week. 8 meets in a season would be 840,000 impressions in one season. That does not include tournaments. 1% is 8,400 possible new people exposed to the sport.
Not saying they will join but basic math indicates this would be the exposure to new people.
OR...how about nothing happens. The wrestling community refuses to try something new. This forum continues to be a place to whine about losing numbers and inappropriate term1 that the only way to grow the sport is to reduce numbers? So far that has worked well...hasn't it?
Actually Bulldog, you thinking that I don't understand technology or that I'm against it proves zero (getting triggered about my sarcastic mention of tiktok was fun however). I think it was 93 when I created our first highlights video for my team and it was broadcast multiple times over the year on local cable. I completely get it. My point, which has been stated in each post, is that streaming video for these events is good. It however isn't a requirement, nor should it be thought as one for this particular situation. If schools, due to a number of restrictions and other hurdles related to streaming live video on mutiple mats, can't get it done, its going to be OK. Let's have wrestling, and its OK if we don't have video. Would it be nice to have? Sure.
Regarding your viewer numbers, I think it's great those duals had multiple views. The vast, probably close to 100%, of viewers were people with a dog in the fight (relatives of wrestlers) or wrestling fans like some of us who saw it posted on a wrestling site and tuned in for maybe the whole event, maybe a match or two. It remains doubtful those were pre-teens without a previous relationship to wrestling, that discovered a wrestling match link, who now are signing up. A couple here/there? Maybe. More likely a younger cousin that was watching because his parents got the link sent to them. And you are right some is better than none, but let's not pretend the future of the sport hinges on whether or not there will be video at a certain regional location this particular year. Huffing and puffing that it's so very simple and finding people to do it will be as easy as opening a juice box doesn't make it true in all cases, nor will it make it happen. Deal with what occurs and move on.
Haven't seen a faster backtrack then listening to a politician caught in a lie. LOL
I'll leave this here as evidence:
Handles Quote:
"I'm quite aware of technology, thanks. However if you really think that most MS students can handle streaming video, you obviously haven't been teaching virtual classes to MS students. They can play games all day, but ask them to attach a photo to a google doc and they don't have a clue. Streaming video isn't really going to promote the sport. The only people who will watch it are the people with a dog in the fight. Random kids won't even be aware it's happening. Thus the importance very limited in the scope of getting these tournaments completed especially for this particular year. If a school has a staff of tech-savy kids or parents willing to video, awesome.?
Ok boys we get it.
What the deal with the post season?!?!?!?! D1 specifically. D2 and D3 live in reasonable areas and have their regional and sectional host squared away. D1 is missing 8 regional host sites. That's a problem! Will they cancel all of D1 if all regional host sites are not figured out? 2 weeks away.
Quote from: MatScoutWillie on January 14, 2021, 09:11:37 AM
Ok boys we get it.
What the deal with the post season?!?!?!?! D1 specifically. D2 and D3 live in reasonable areas and have their regional and sectional host squared away. D1 is missing 8 regional host sites. That's a problem! Will they cancel all of D1 if all regional host sites are not figured out? 2 weeks away.
I don't think any of us can answer that with 100% certainty, but I don't think they'll cancel D1.
I'm thinking these regionals/sectionals have sites offered and it'll get figured out. That's my hope.
Could a school that is a D2, or D3 school host a D1 regional/sectional? Seems like the smaller rural schools are willing to do this; however, the larger schools don't want to risk it for some reason.
2 weeks away and nothing ???
Maybe everyone should just call them!
Wisconsin Interscholastic
Athletic Association
5516 Vern Holmes Drive
Stevens Point, WI 54482-8833
Phone (715) 344-8580
Fax (715) 344-4241
Mon-Fri: 7:30 AM - 4:00 PM
I called this morning and supposedly they are still trying to find schools that will host regionals/sectionals, they think they will know in a day or two. The secretary is saying some counties will not allow it. My understanding is the decision ultimately lays with the school Super Intendants if they want to allow the event to happen. I talked to a couple of other people I know from around the State that I know from being around the sport fort the last 40 years and they are not optimistic. I keep hearing the same thing, the WIAA planned on stringing the kids out until the end of the season and canceling in the end. To much work and no money to be made. If this happens the WIAA really screwed a bunch of good kids, especially this years seniors. So far my son has wrestled 6 matches in the WIAA season over two months and 4 more at the Dells in a four hour span.
I think the county issue is correct. From what I hear Dane County will not allow competition IN the county (I could be wrong). But if that is the case could Dane County schools find a location outside of the county? Or doesn't that really make a difference? It looks like D2 and D3 pretty much has it hammered out. So D1 has some big holes to try and fill in very quickly...
Quote from: tomfox on January 14, 2021, 11:18:31 AM
I called this morning and supposedly they are still trying to find schools that will host regionals/sectionals, they think they will know in a day or two. The secretary is saying some counties will not allow it. My understanding is the decision ultimately lays with the school Super Intendants if they want to allow the event to happen. I talked to a couple of other people I know from around the State that I know from being around the sport fort the last 40 years and they are not optimistic. I keep hearing the same thing, the WIAA planned on stringing the kids out until the end of the season and canceling in the end. To much work and no money to be made. If this happens the WIAA really screwed a bunch of good kids, especially this years seniors. So far my son has wrestled 6 matches in the WIAA season over two months and 4 more at the Dells in a four hour span.
It sure is shaping up that way. Unfortunately. They had almost a year to figure this out, and are failing miserably. We had a team cancel yesterday for a dual today. This leaves teams little option.
Teams available won't wrestle because of conference rules, yet in two weeks will have no issues wrestling in a regional tournament.
This whole time, basketball can play back to back games against different opponents nonetheless.
Pathetic.
Quote from: hornbuckleb on January 14, 2021, 09:36:10 AM
2 weeks away and nothing ???
Maybe everyone should just call them!
Wisconsin Interscholastic
Athletic Association
5516 Vern Holmes Drive
Stevens Point, WI 54482-8833
Phone (715) 344-8580
Fax (715) 344-4241
Mon-Fri: 7:30 AM - 4:00 PM
Not sure it means anything but our host regional did send us the contract yesterday(D3)
I think if we don't hear anything by the end of the week we could be in trouble.
With the proposed DI 8-man bracket, and WIAA to lazy to re-align-it is "state" tourney in name only. If it really is about finding opportunities for your kid, time to look elsewhere.
USA Wrestling just released a "state champ" tournament, the will also have local wrestle-in opportunities for at-large type entry. They state the whole intent is for older kids to get looked at by college coaches.
Nuway wrestling has had great tournaments all year going on, as did GroWrestling.
Trackwrestling/Flo has lots other listed.
I believe March/April then thru-out the whole summer will have tons of opportunities for mat time and exposure.
Hope local clubs step up to offer opportunities for those that do not want to travel.
A few high school teams were smart enough to opt out or actively seek elsewhere. Kudos to them.
FYI... just got off the phone with Mike Zimmerman. He owns the Milwaukee Wave and built up the ROC in Franklin. He built a 90,000 sq ft facility that opens in February. He is willing to host the D1 tournament at the facility (details to be worked out).
Does this mean that D2 and D3 are definitely happening?
Quote from: Wrestling Novice on January 14, 2021, 12:45:38 PM
FYI... just got off the phone with Mike Zimmerman. He owns the Milwaukee Wave and built up the ROC in Franklin. He built a 90,000 sq ft facility that opens in February. He is willing to host the D1 tournament at the facility (details to be worked out).
Maybe he can host a couple of regional tournaments there as well as SE WI really needs locations.
Quote from: bigoil on January 14, 2021, 12:51:38 PM
Quote from: Wrestling Novice on January 14, 2021, 12:45:38 PM
The problem is that it is opening in February. Sectionals might be doable.
FYI... just got off the phone with Mike Zimmerman. He owns the Milwaukee Wave and built up the ROC in Franklin. He built a 90,000 sq ft facility that opens in February. He is willing to host the D1 tournament at the facility (details to be worked out).
Maybe he can host a couple of regional tournaments there as well as SE WI really needs locations.
https://www.rocventures.org/ballpark-commons/performance-village
https://www.wiaawi.org/Portals/0/PDF/Results/Wrestling/2021/D1-Wrestling-2021.pdf
I've been as critical about the WIAA as anyone. Kudos to them for getting this done. Still need some regional locations, but realignment has happened.
Everything will happen.
It may not be ideal, but it'll be something.
D1 getting realigned is nice.... D2 and D3 stayed the same, which is okay.
so I have a question... now that they are realligned how are they working? is it the four teams under the sectional and top 2 from each regional? how many of those from each sectional can go to state??? please help clear some stuff up for me and sorry for spelling and grammar
Quote from: ObsessedObserver on January 14, 2021, 01:15:15 PM
so I have a question... now that they are realligned how are they working? is it the four teams under the sectional and top 2 from each regional? how many of those from each sectional can go to state??? please help clear some stuff up for me and sorry for spelling and grammar
I don't know for sure, but my guess would be:
top 2 from each regionals(4) = 8 wrestlers for sectionals
top 2 from sectionals (4) = 8 wrestlers for state
Its also very concerning to me that three of the regional sites in the mukwonago sectional are still not found
Quote from: ObsessedObserver on January 14, 2021, 01:18:41 PM
Its also very concerning to me that three of the regional sites in the mukwonago sectional are still not found
Very, hopefully those teams will be the only one's who don't get to compete. Don't punish every school. Which is a shame. Those schools need to step up and host.
ok thank you and was I right on the sectional realignments? under each sectional there are 4 regionals and they are combining into one sectional?
Kaukauna is hosting the state tournament on February 13th
Thank you for anwsering all of my questions and clearing stuff up guys just one last question does Team state have a venue yet? or just individual at kaukauna
Quote from: ObsessedObserver on January 14, 2021, 01:18:41 PM
Its also very concerning to me that three of the regional sites in the mukwonago sectional are still not found
I don't know all my geography but how many teams in regionals 1 and 2 are outside Dane County and able to host?
Beaver Dam?
Sauk Prairie?
Portage?
Baraboo?
Are those the only options?
Quote from: ObsessedObserver on January 14, 2021, 01:30:00 PM
Thank you for anwsering all of my questions and clearing stuff up guys just one last question does Team state have a venue yet? or just individual at kaukauna
Also Kaukauna on 2/20/21. Says it at the top
Quality wrestlers from the Waterford regional are going to miss out based on this. Absolutely brutal.
I wonder who they consulted....my guess is no one.
Quote from: DocWrestling on January 14, 2021, 01:30:40 PM
Quote from: ObsessedObserver on January 14, 2021, 01:18:41 PM
Its also very concerning to me that three of the regional sites in the mukwonago sectional are still not found
I don't know all my geography but how many teams in regionals 1 and 2 are outside Dane County and able to host?
Beaver Dam?
Sauk Prairie?
Portage?
Baraboo?
I'm not quite sure either
Are those the only options?
This seems like a more inappropriate term01 way to determine team state...
If your goal is to get the best to Sectionals now, the Brookfield East Sectional is not the way to go about it.
Novice I believe they are doing it this way because the 7 day rule is still in effect so you would have to have another weekend for team sectional and that runs into spring football and the WIAA was not going to allow that
Let's now just shift our focus to hoping no team or individual dreams will be shattered by a positive Covid test.
I think we also still have not heard from all schools on whether they will allow their teams to compete in the postseason especially those who have not competed yet.
I truly hope all stay healthy to get their opportunity. I know in other sports many teams and individuals had very poor timing to have covid affect their postseason. Good luck to all.
I realize that decisions were made for healthy teams. I am more worried about what happened in fall sports where teams had an outbreak right before postseason and missed regionals and thus missed the entire playoffs. I am just hoping no individuals or teams miss the opportunity. As I have heard from many in all sports for right or wrong "just don't get tested" and avoid as much as possible to not get quarantined. This is why many athletes have chosen the virtual only option even if their school is in session
I am glad that the WIAA is taking two from each sectional in D1 now because it will get the majority of the top kids to state. But I can't help but think the door is now open for the WIAA to split to 3 divisions evenly and go to four sectionals for each division and only taking eight total wrestlers to state in each division. Couple that with girls wrestling being approved for a WIAA sport that will be the reason for only 32 wrestlers to state (24 boys and 8 girls) instead of 40 boys as it was up until 2020 season. Maybe they will go 12 boy wrestlers at state for each division, but maybe they will want to keep everything the same between boys and girls. This was the same thing the Olympics did when they brought on women's wrestling and would it be that far fetched if the WIAA followed that? I hope not but the WIAA might be setting a precedent with this.
Quote from: ObsessedObserver on January 14, 2021, 01:18:41 PM
Its also very concerning to me that three of the regional sites in the mukwonago sectional are still not found
I'm guessing we need to give the WIAA (and schools) a minute. They just realigned everything. Again, Baraboo had offered to host sectionals when that appeared to be the need. Now we are learning that we may be needed for regionals instead. If there's no scheduling problem, I'm told Baraboo will step up. I'm thinking others will too.
Quote from: Napoleon Dynamite on January 15, 2021, 02:31:10 PM
What else is interesting is that at sectionals for all divisions, they will wrestle entire bracket just like regionals to be able to capture the most team points possible (to 6th place).
Will all sectionals be wrestled like a regular 8 man bracket or will it still be like the conventional D2/D3 brackets where you have to be pulled back into the bracket by the wrestler you lost to first round?
Quote from: Napoleon Dynamite on January 15, 2021, 02:18:47 PM
Quote from: Napoleon Dynamite on January 15, 2021, 02:14:13 PM
Fresh off the presses from the WIAA:
To all wrestling schools – Athletic Directors and Conference Commissioners
AD - please share with your wrestling coaches.
Wrestling will be allowed to increase to six teams for competition for January 17 to January 23, and are allowed to increase to eight teams for competition for January 30 and beyond.
The WIAA Executive staff, Board of Control and the SMAC are much more comfortable as the season has progressed. No major spreads linked to high school sport or wrestling. Athletes are physically in better shape. While the plan provides for significant reductions, this is the best opportunity that we can provide for our member schools and their wrestlers.
Here is our plan:
WIAA Covid-19 – one-year only.
• Masks are mandatory for everyone.
• Wrestlers and coaches should have a waiting area where they can socially distance, go wrestle, and return to the waiting area.
• Limit coaches. Two to the mat. One non-coach manager up to host. No cheerleaders.
• Spectators (we are requesting two per participant): local health department and school district ultimately determine.
• Recommend against any overnight and WIAA will not reimburse. If it is necessary, the team must be secluded and isolated from anyone not in the traveling party. One person gets take out.
Assignments
• Division one: https://www.wiaawi.org/Portals/0/PDF/Results/Wrestling/2021/D1-Wrestling-2021.pdf
• Division two: https://www.wiaawi.org/Portals/0/PDF/Results/Wrestling/2021/D2-Wrestling-2021.pdf
• Division three: https://www.wiaawi.org/Portals/0/PDF/Results/Wrestling/2021/D3-Wrestling-2021.pdf
In all Divisions
• Top two individuals in regional will go to sectional = 8 qualifiers per weight class.
• Top two individuals in sectionals to state = 8 qualifiers per weight class.
• Wrestle backs in regional and sectional to second place in all divisions.
• Score to six places.
• State will be at three different sites by division
Team qualifiers will be determined by individual sectional team scores.
• Top two teams in D1 sectionals = 8,
• Top team in D2/3 sectionals = 4 per division
• State will be at three different sites by division
So, changes that are in this that were unknown until now are...can have 6 teams at a competition from 1/17-1/23. D1 Team State is actually 8 teams. Top 2 teams from Sectionals make it.
Glad we are wrestling, but 8 qualifiers still makes no sense for all Divisions. Division 2/3 are barely missing any teams from the original Regional Pairings, but every weight class will have 4 less qualifiers.
The wrestle backs at every sectional are going to be a battle! I hope they have all of these live streamed.
I think there will be kids ranked top 8 in the state that will not get any team points in a sectional tournament format since they will place third at regionals and be done.
When you think regional tournament scoring sucks for gaining team entry into a dual meet tournament, you get sectional scoring to 6th place when only 2 qualify from a regional.
All these changes and 12 person state brackets could not even happen? What a shame!
Quote from: Numbers on January 15, 2021, 07:21:15 PM
I think there will be kids ranked top 8 in the state that will not get any team points in a sectional tournament format since they will place third at regionals and be done.
When you think regional tournament scoring sucks for gaining team entry into a dual meet tournament, you get sectional scoring to 6th place when only 2 qualify from a regional.
All these changes and 12 person state brackets could not even happen? What a shame!
They are wrestling. Both individual and team State. Be happy.
You guys can all go ahead and be happy. This is all games by the WIAA and some upper management.
I will do whatever it takes for my guys to wrestle. I will help anyone. If we can't see the need for changes, then keep stuffing your head in the sand and keep saying it's ok.
Things are done so differently for certain sports it's ridiculous. It's not about the majority. It's about what a chosen few people want. When our coaches association is basically told we have no say, that is not the proper way to lead. That's disrespectful I think.
Time to get on the same page. Sometimes we are our own worst enemies. We are all strong minded. Time to figure out how to get things done with the people that make the final decisions.
There have been great options brought up by people willing to sacrifice a lot. Not even talked about that I know of.
Just some thoughts and observations.
Matt Verbeten
Matt's right. I am in the camp that more could have been had they just asked for help.
Is it difficult to see that if you want to have the best qualify for sectionals, split teams up based on their quality. inappropriate term3 there are rankings already available.
If you want the best teams at state, you don't use individual sectionals that are haphazardly put together based more on location rather than getting the best to advance.
I pick on the Waterford regional because there are going to be great wrestlers left behind at REGIONAL. Not sectional. Had the WIAA switched some teams, you could accomplish what should have been a no brainier. I mean is it that difficult to move Burlington, Oak Creek or Waterford (keep in mind Franklin and UG are in this same regional as well) to a different region? The travel time is negligible. Absolutely zero effort put in by Wade.
Quote from: colekaden on January 16, 2021, 10:19:06 AM
You guys can all go ahead and be happy. This is all games by the WIAA and some upper management.
I will do whatever it takes for my guys to wrestle. I will help anyone. If we can't see the need for changes, then keep stuffing your head in the sand and keep saying it's ok.
Things are done so differently for certain sports it's ridiculous. It's not about the majority. It's about what a chosen few people want. When our coaches association is basically told we have no say, that is not the proper way to lead. That's disrespectful I think.
Time to get on the same page. Sometimes we are our own worst enemies. We are all strong minded. Time to figure out how to get things done with the people that make the final decisions.
There have been great options brought up by people willing to sacrifice a lot. Not even talked about that I know of.
Just some thoughts and observations.
Matt Verbeten
I can agree there can be improvements and changes. Maybe nothing else can be done for this year, but next year, some things can be worked on. Regional/sectional placement can be easy things to fix, if the wrestling minds can be a part of the decision making process.
That WT sectional is impossible to predict right now... The Two Rivers regional will knock out alot from each team.
Last thought for now....Team State in the Brookfield East Sectional you could have Burlington, Oak Creek or Waterford qualify as a TEAM. They would be the three favorites in the Sectional. I don't think that anyone would argue this. Yet the WIAA can't see it, or think to ask coaches.
Quote from: Wrestling Novice on January 16, 2021, 10:29:06 AM
If you want the best teams at state, you don't use individual sectionals that are haphazardly put together based more on location rather than getting the best to advance.
1. If you want the best TEAMS at state, you don't use individual results from anything to determine that. You use a team tournament format. Some of us have been saying this for 20 years, but many WI coaches are against it. MN and other states have been doing it the right way for decades.
2. The WIAA doesn't really care, in general, if the best teams (or kids) in the state get there. How would they know or why would they care if kid or team Z qualified over team J in an upset or because of a regional change? Super fans want the best (sometimes in their opinion) to be there, and that's fine. It's kind of how fantasy football started. Not everything will ever work out exactly as everyone wants. Can we improve things? Yes, hopefully. Personally I'm a bit more concerned that we now have only around 7,000 wrestlers per year than the 12K we had not very long ago than which kid or team made it to State via a certain region. But that's another topic for another time.
So I'm in agreement that maybe next year there could be a possiblity for some worthwhile changes to the entire State format. One thing, the most prominant teams and coaches in the state will have the most sway of what happens, be that good for all of the sport, or mainly good for themselves, it's how it tends to work.
Quote from: NoFooForU on January 15, 2021, 08:20:35 PM
Quote from: Numbers on January 15, 2021, 07:21:15 PM
I think there will be kids ranked top 8 in the state that will not get any team points in a sectional tournament format since they will place third at regionals and be done.
When you think regional tournament scoring sucks for gaining team entry into a dual meet tournament, you get sectional scoring to 6th place when only 2 qualify from a regional.
All these changes and 12 person state brackets could not even happen? What a shame!
They are wrestling. Both individual and team State. Be happy.
+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000!
As things are right now, for team state, many wrestlers that would score points at sectionals will be eliminated at regionals.
A team with 4 studs and maybe only 8 or 10 wrestlers total on the team would be able to win sectionals.
This is hardly a fair way to pick teams to qualify for team state.
Is there any change in the seven day rule between matches?
Quote from: thequad on January 16, 2021, 01:01:24 PM
Is there any change in the seven day rule between matches?
Quad, no change... just more teams at the events.
postseason will take 4 saturdays, from regionals to team state.
and yes, LC and WT will be tight at your sectional. The battle begins at regionals.
Quote from: DarkKnight on January 16, 2021, 02:00:35 PM
Quote from: thequad on January 16, 2021, 01:01:24 PM
Is there any change in the seven day rule between matches?
Quad, no change... just more teams at the events.
postseason will take 4 saturdays, from regionals to team state.
and yes, LC and WT will be tight at your sectional. The battle begins at regionals.
Many sectional points will left behind at this regional!
Yes, Quad...
but WT and LC will be in the same boat, as well as brillion.
Gotta make do
Quote from: Narwhal on January 16, 2021, 02:51:54 PM
Sure wish the wiaa would let the forum parents and fans fix the regionals and sectionals. My friends kid is in a toughy. He'd like his son to have a much easier path to the state so he can realize his dreams without having to beat better kids than him. All anyone wants to see at state is the kids from the really deserving teams anyways right? Just shouldn't be this tough he says. I told him his kid just needs to get better and beat those kids in his regional. He said his kid is already working hard and it's not fair to have to wrestle better kids at regionals and sectionals. And besides if some of those lesser kids and teams get to state they may create enthusiasm in their communities and all of a sudden they may get better and who wants that. those more desering better teams want all their kids and team there. After all, if it's good for the more deserving teams and kids, like his, it's good for everybody, right?
Wondering why the NFL doesn't move some of those teams with better records over to the easier conferences. But I guess they need to complain more to get in an easier conference. I haven't heard of them doing that yet.
Let's get this straightened out. The real deserving fans deserve better. Amen
;D ;D ;D
Quote from: thequad on January 16, 2021, 02:14:32 PM
Quote from: DarkKnight on January 16, 2021, 02:00:35 PM
Quote from: thequad on January 16, 2021, 01:01:24 PM
Is there any change in the seven day rule between matches?
Quad, no change... just more teams at the events.
postseason will take 4 saturdays, from regionals to team state.
and yes, LC and WT will be tight at your sectional. The battle begins at regionals.
Many sectional points will left behind at this regional!
Actually zero will be. You can't score sectional points if you don't make it to sectionals.
Quote from: Narwhal on January 16, 2021, 02:51:54 PM
Sure wish the wiaa would let the forum parents and fans fix the regionals and sectionals. My friends kid is in a toughy. He'd like his son to have a much easier path to the state so he can realize his dreams without having to beat better kids than him. All anyone wants to see at state is the kids from the really deserving teams anyways right? Just shouldn't be this tough he says. I told him his kid just needs to get better and beat those kids in his regional. He said his kid is already working hard and it's not fair to have to wrestle better kids at regionals and sectionals. And besides if some of those lesser kids and teams get to state they may create enthusiasm in their communities and all of a sudden they may get better and who wants that. those more desering better teams want all their kids and team there. After all, if it's good for the more deserving teams and kids, like his, it's good for everybody, right?
Wondering why the NFL doesn't move some of those teams with better records over to the easier conferences. But I guess they need to complain more to get in an easier conference. I haven't heard of them doing that yet.
Let's get this straightened out. The real deserving fans deserve better. Amen
Except in the playoffs, the NFL actually seeds the teams. Then reseeds them the following round. The point is, they know that the better teams deserve an easier path..
Quote from: Narwhal on January 16, 2021, 02:51:54 PM
Sure wish the wiaa would let the forum parents and fans fix the regionals and sectionals. My friends kid is in a toughy. He'd like his son to have a much easier path to the state so he can realize his dreams without having to beat better kids than him. All anyone wants to see at state is the kids from the really deserving teams anyways right? Just shouldn't be this tough he says. I told him his kid just needs to get better and beat those kids in his regional. He said his kid is already working hard and it's not fair to have to wrestle better kids at regionals and sectionals. And besides if some of those lesser kids and teams get to state they may create enthusiasm in their communities and all of a sudden they may get better and who wants that. those more desering better teams want all their kids and team there. After all, if it's good for the more deserving teams and kids, like his, it's good for everybody, right?
Wondering why the NFL doesn't move some of those teams with better records over to the easier conferences. But I guess they need to complain more to get in an easier conference. I haven't heard of them doing that yet.
Let's get this straightened out. The real deserving fans deserve better. Amen
In fact, high school basketball, football and soccer amongst other sports are seeded as well. You would know that if you were a sports fan...
Obviously, seeding is done so the best teams/individuals can make it as far as possible before they hit each other.
Quote from: Narwhal on January 16, 2021, 02:51:54 PM
Sure wish the wiaa would let the forum parents and fans fix the regionals and sectionals. My friends kid is in a toughy. He'd like his son to have a much easier path to the state so he can realize his dreams without having to beat better kids than him. All anyone wants to see at state is the kids from the really deserving teams anyways right? Just shouldn't be this tough he says. I told him his kid just needs to get better and beat those kids in his regional. He said his kid is already working hard and it's not fair to have to wrestle better kids at regionals and sectionals. And besides if some of those lesser kids and teams get to state they may create enthusiasm in their communities and all of a sudden they may get better and who wants that. those more desering better teams want all their kids and team there. After all, if it's good for the more deserving teams and kids, like his, it's good for everybody, right?
Wondering why the NFL doesn't move some of those teams with better records over to the easier conferences. But I guess they need to complain more to get in an easier conference. I haven't heard of them doing that yet.
Let's get this straightened out. The real deserving fans deserve better. Amen
Lifes not fair. Spend less time complaining.
I'm so glad we are going to have wrestling! Hope kids avoid Covid and contact tracing in coming weeks.
Quote from: Wis-Mallard on January 16, 2021, 08:32:53 PM
I'm so glad we are going to have wrestling! Hope kids avoid Covid and contact tracing in coming weeks.
Agreed 100%
In the WIAA rules it states student athletes can do 2 unsanctioned events a season but all the other criteria is still in affect, like weight decent. So if an athlete did more then two events are they still eligible for the post season?
Quote from: factfinder on January 17, 2021, 08:53:14 AM
In the WIAA rules it states student athletes can do 2 unsanctioned events a season but all the other criteria is still in affect, like weight decent. So if an athlete did more then two events are they still eligible for the post season?
[/quote
Great question. I know a few wrestlers who did more than 2 events.... but I'm waiting to see what others do about it. I don't think they are eligible if they are called out.
It depends when their season started, not all schools had the same start date.
Quote from: bigoil on January 17, 2021, 09:08:47 AM
It depends when their season started, not all schools had the same start date.
Technically if I understand it, if a high school did not start their wrestling season until now like in some areas then wrestlers could have done unlimited events until their season started and then still have two non sanctioned events once their season started. The start of their season was likely one week prior to first team competition because then they would have had to meet WIAA requirements for minimum number of practices prior to first competition.
I am not sure how the rule is interpreted if a wrestler was doing club wrestling instead of on their WIAA team and then just joins their high school team now?
Just let the ADs and coaches sort it out. No need for parents to get involved.
Quote from: factfinder on January 17, 2021, 08:53:14 AM
In the WIAA rules it states student athletes can do 2 unsanctioned events a season but all the other criteria is still in affect, like weight decent. So if an athlete did more then two events are they still eligible for the post season?
The wiaa uses brackets your in to determine the amount of competition you have.
example: if you went to an event that had a dual style and a individual format and you entered both and were in 2 brackets (one for dual and one for individual) than that would be thought of as your 2 non school usage. That would be 2 brackets at one event.
also the weight plan does NOT include the non school events.
example: if you wrestled for school at 132 weighing in at 131 you would need to follow the WIAA decent plan for your next meet that is a WIAA event. So if you dropped to 126 the next day for a non school event you can wrestle that weight at that event but when you are eligible to wrestle again for the WIAA you would have to be at what ever the decent plan minimum weight so basically you would be 132 for your school event if within 7 days of your last WIAA weigh in.
Decent plan does NOT include non school events.
Quote from: DocWrestling on January 17, 2021, 11:33:12 AM
Quote from: bigoil on January 17, 2021, 09:08:47 AM
It depends when their season started, not all schools had the same start date.
Technically if I understand it, if a high school did not start their wrestling season until now like in some areas then wrestlers could have done unlimited events until their season started and then still have two non sanctioned events once their season started. The start of their season was likely one week prior to first team competition because then they would have had to meet WIAA requirements for minimum number of practices prior to first competition.
I am not sure how the rule is interpreted if a wrestler was doing club wrestling instead of on their WIAA team and then just joins their high school team now?
Just let the ADs and coaches sort it out. No need for parents to get involved.
There is your sticking point as to when the season actually starts.
The WIAA determines the start of a season and the school can chose to start them or wait. Though at some point there is an actually starting point unless your a first year wrestler.
Some schools whether they actually started or not, do put into effect that the start of the season is when the WIAA does start even if the school doesnt start at that date.
Also, if your wrestler choses to enter these competitions they have to notify the school and may have to fill out the paper work doing so. If your athlete does NOT inform the school they could be ruled ineligible also. Strange thing that could be.
The school has monitor these and notify the WIAA of this also.
Bottom line if your athlete is competing in non school events during the season you can also make the school ineligible for competition if the proper guidelilnes are not followed.
Does anyone know if the kids get the extra 1lb allowance at regionals seeming regionals is in January instead of February? And if so, where might I find that information. Thank you.
Quote from: Motion on January 18, 2021, 07:51:11 AM
Does anyone know if the kids get the extra 1lb allowance at regionals seeming regionals is in January instead of February? And if so, where might I find that information. Thank you.
+1 on 01/30/2021
https://www.wiaawi.org/Sports/Winter/Wrestling/Dates-Schedules
Thank you!
Wrestling Tournament Series Assignments & Procedures Revised
https://www.onfocus.news/wrestling-tournament-series-assignments-procedures-revised/
Does anyone know if the Regional sites have been picked up yet. If not, which ones are still in need of a host site?
I'll work on Parker
What's going on with with the Waterford regional? Is "TBA" any different than "site needed"?