Barry Davis

[BuckyMatt]

Alvarez was EXTREMELY (still is) confident and cocky when he came to Wisconsin.  Worked out pretty well for us...

In the famous words of Joe Panos in 1993 "Why Not Wisconsin??'

I feel like many of the Badger fans have a million reason why Wisconsin can't and never will compete with the best; budget restrictions, scholarship restrictions, academic restrictions, coaching salary restrictions, state of Wisconsin lack of wrestling talent, lack of good facilities blah blah blah."

Don't you think Alvarez had a lot working against him when he came to Wisconsin in 1989?  Alot of reasons why Wisconsin football should never compete with the big boys?

I want a Coach who is going to say "Why not Wisconsin" and truly believes Wisconsin can compete with Penn State and Iowa.  I believe Askren is that person.

[FoldEmUp]

Alvarez was EXTREMELY (still is) confident and cocky when he came to Wisconsin.  Worked out pretty well for us...

In the famous words of Joe Panos in 1993 "Why Not Wisconsin??'

I feel like many of the Badger fans have a million reason why Wisconsin can't and never will compete with the best; budget restrictions, scholarship restrictions, academic restrictions, coaching salary restrictions, state of Wisconsin lack of wrestling talent, lack of good facilities blah blah blah."

Don't you think Alvarez had a lot working against him when he came to Wisconsin in 1989?  Alot of reasons why Wisconsin football should never compete with the big boys?

I want a Coach who is going to say "Why not Wisconsin" and truly believes Wisconsin can compete with Penn State and Iowa.  I believe Askren is that person.

Matt, not to conflict anything you're saying, but I think it's worth noting that to this day, the Badger Football program isn't in that different of a place than the Badger Wrestling program. NOT competing for National Titles, but in the upper-eschelon of the next "tier". If you want to get into the semantics of 15th best program versus 10th, you probably can prove the football squad is in slightly higher esteem.

But, my greater point, is that the Badger Wrestling team is good, but we all want to be excellent, and that many Badger football fans express the same sentiment, to this day.

The B1G in wrestling is comparable to the SEC in football.  To that end, comparing our current football, which I believe has been far closer to competing for national championships than wrestling, program to wrestling is just a tad off.

[wrastle63]

Alvarez was EXTREMELY (still is) confident and cocky when he came to Wisconsin.  Worked out pretty well for us...

In the famous words of Joe Panos in 1993 "Why Not Wisconsin??'

I feel like many of the Badger fans have a million reason why Wisconsin can't and never will compete with the best; budget restrictions, scholarship restrictions, academic restrictions, coaching salary restrictions, state of Wisconsin lack of wrestling talent, lack of good facilities blah blah blah."

Don't you think Alvarez had a lot working against him when he came to Wisconsin in 1989?  Alot of reasons why Wisconsin football should never compete with the big boys?

I want a Coach who is going to say "Why not Wisconsin" and truly believes Wisconsin can compete with Penn State and Iowa.  I believe Askren is that person.

Matt, not to conflict anything you're saying, but I think it's worth noting that to this day, the Badger Football program isn't in that different of a place than the Badger Wrestling program. NOT competing for National Titles, but in the upper-eschelon of the next "tier". If you want to get into the semantics of 15th best program versus 10th, you probably can prove the football squad is in slightly higher esteem.

But, my greater point, is that the Badger Wrestling team is good, but we all want to be excellent, and that many Badger football fans express the same sentiment, to this day.

Not competing for a National Title? If we beat Ohio State we ARE competing for a national title last year. Our team could arguably be better this year. Think your a little off.

[FoldEmUp]

The B1G in wrestling is comparable to the SEC in football.  To that end, comparing our current football, which I believe has been far closer to competing for national championships than wrestling, program to wrestling is just a tad off.

There's no conference in football that comes close to the Big Ten in wrestling. Six of the top ten are in one conference, regularly? That never happens. Conferences just don't work, when comparing wrestling to anything else.

Looking at the national picture though, the Badgers best finish under Davis was 4th ('10), tied for the best in program history. Since Barry Alvarez took over, the same is true for football ('99), with our best final poll placement being 4th.

Let's not be so literal.  My point was that the SEC is far above the other football conferences the way that the B1G is above all the other wrestling conferences.  Not that they were literally exactly the same.

Comparing finishing fourth in the polls in football to finishing fourth at the NCAA's is way off.  The quality of football teams ranked #1-#20 are much closer in talent than the top #1-#20 ranked wrestling teams.  Penn State has ZERO chance of losing to a team outside the top ten.  Teams in the college football playoff this year lost to unranked football teams.

[DocWrestling]

Football is doing much better than wrestling nationally-  If you don't understand that then I don't know what to say.

Truth is that Lou Holtz who was Alvarez's mentor and head coach told Alvarez not to take the UW job and that he would never win there and it would be career suicide.

His arrogance made him take the job and force changes.  Does that always work?  Honestly not often probably.

I just think you have to make a bold choice if you want to try for top 3 in the Big Ten.  You need someone to push UW administration for changes and you need someone that might look attractive to recruits.  Colleges are hiring younger coaches to better relate and communicate with younger athletes and social media

[wrestle03]

DocWrestling:
I don't care if you get Askren or any other of your dream candidates, Badger wrestling will never be a top 3 finisher in the Big10.  Pipe dreams are one thing, but reality is a whole other.  The lack of in state talent and lack of All-Americans this state produces cannot be argued. 

[GradeTough]

DocWrestling:
I don't care if you get Askren or any other of your dream candidates, Badger wrestling will never be a top 3 finisher in the Big10.  Pipe dreams are one thing, but reality is a whole other.  The lack of in state talent and lack of All-Americans this state produces cannot be argued. 

Colleges don't recruit just from within their State borders. You get talent from across the land.

[wrestle03]

Wow, you are a genius GradeTough.  If you had to just take in-state talent WI would be 10 to 14 in the Big10 every year.  But you think their going to recruit and get better guys than Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois, Minnesota............Ill stop with those schools.  Guess what?  It's never going to happen.

[GradeTough]

Wow, you are a genius GradeTough.  If you had to just take in-state talent WI would be 10 to 14 in the Big10 every year.  But you think their going to recruit and get better guys than Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois, Minnesota............Ill stop with those schools.  Guess what?  It's never going to happen.

You are correct in that I am highly intelligent. Thanks!

If a great staff is put in place I do believe they would be able to have higher rated recruiting classes than they have in years past. The other schools you mentioned have a head start on future recruits. Which is obvious. Success has a way of changing momentum.

[FoldEmUp]

Wow, you are a genius GradeTough.  If you had to just take in-state talent WI would be 10 to 14 in the Big10 every year.  But you think their going to recruit and get better guys than Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois, Minnesota............Ill stop with those schools.  Guess what?  It's never going to happen.

Really?  If you're talking recent history I'll agree with you...but certainly not historically true.

Here are the last five years according to Flo:  5 year cycle: #18, NR, #20, NR, NR

Historically?

2012:  #8 overall behind Iowa, Michigan, and Illinois.  Ahead of the rest.  Including this year what were the previous four years?  #8, #14, #UR, #12

http://d1collegewrestling.net/Recruiting_Rankings2012.html
https://www.flowrestling.org/rankings/6031439-2012-recruiting-class-rankings/14106-2012-recruiting-class-rankings

2011:  #14 overall behind Nebraska, Ohio State, Penn St. but ranked right there with Minnesota.  Ahead of Iowa, Michigan and Illinois.

https://www.flowrestling.org/rankings/6031438-2011-recruiting-class-rankings/14105-2011-recruiting-class-rankings

2008:  #4 overall behind Minnesota.  Ahead of everyone else.

http://d1collegewrestling.net/Recruiting_Rankings2008.html

[bigoil]

Wow, you are a genius GradeTough.  If you had to just take in-state talent WI would be 10 to 14 in the Big10 every year.  But you think their going to recruit and get better guys than Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois, Minnesota............Ill stop with those schools.  Guess what?  It's never going to happen.

10 years ago you wouldn't have mentioned tOSU or PSU on that list and now they are the top dogs by far with practically a dual meet in the BIG 10 finals.

[jaguarwrestler]

why are we comparing football to wrestling? I thought football had twice as many programs, so ranked 5th in wrestling is like ranked 10th in football. A 17th place finish in nationals is like 34th at football based on teams you have to compete against. Stop with the 4th is the best football has done... that is out of there control, loose 1 game and you might finish 4th but they don't have a good system to determine actual finish in the country. Our football program is much more successful than our wrestling program, not even in the same league. Oh and by the way, we have had 4 coaches in the last 15 years in football, if we finished outside the top 20 for a few years they would not extend a contract

[DocWrestling]

Programs change over time based on coach and tradition.

I see Penn St and Ohio St being the cream of the crop going forward due to their geography with in-state and entire east coast.

Minnesota is in a perilous spot now with coaching change

Iowa has tradition but if they start to falter or change coaches they do not have the in state talent to survive either.

No state has the instate talent other than maybe Penn St or Ohio St.  Illinois is probably 3rd.

Won't be easy to make top 3 in Big Ten but there has been more volatility in NCAA wresting with the top 5 and top 10 than ever before.  Teams have moved in and out.  Unfortunately UW has not been one to move in to top 10. The positive is they really have never fallen out of top 20.  been holding steady

[wrestle03]

I think you all just need to prepare yourself, and not be surprised or disappointed when Brandvold/Ruschell are named interim coaches for next year, and after the one year on interim basis one of them is the new permanent head coach.  Rumors are running wild that this is exactly what will happen.

[leg turk]

so, are you saying that Wisconsin doesn't really produce great college wrestlers?