Booing in the state finals

[1Iota]

There are far worse things you can do in life then simply boo someone.

Like flex your muscles in their general direction. Amirite!

I do not understand booing at a HS event and I wouldn't do it, but I love how this has now been turned into, primarily by you Luke, into this whole issue revolving around a wrestler flexing.  That is disingenuous at best, more accurately it is an absolute lie.  The issue people most familiar with the behavior in question is not how he reacts when he wins, but how he reacts when he loses.  In fact the real action that cost him was his reaction after a meaningless call went against him.  

Can someone explain to me what this person is talking about?

He was definitely, no question, suspended for flexing.

That taunting call alone would not have resulted in a suspension & you know that.  He was visibly upset & arguing a call he didn't agree with.  Whether he used profanity as some have claimed, I am not sure,  but he clearly was challenging the call & received an unsportsmanlike.  You know all of this but have no interest in presenting the actual facts as it gains a lot empathy when it appears he was penalized for flexing, an act almost no one has an issue with. 

[bigG]

He was suspended. Might not get to keep the medal , no matter how nice he was when he "won."

[wrastle63]

There are far worse things you can do in life then simply boo someone.

Like flex your muscles in their general direction. Amirite!

I do not understand booing at a HS event and I wouldn't do it, but I love how this has now been turned into, primarily by you Luke, into this whole issue revolving around a wrestler flexing.  That is disingenuous at best, more accurately it is an absolute lie.  The issue people most familiar with the behavior in question is not how he reacts when he wins, but how he reacts when he loses.  In fact the real action that cost him was his reaction after a meaningless call went against him.  

Can someone explain to me what this person is talking about?

He was definitely, no question, suspended for flexing.

..it gains a lot empathy when it appears he was penalized for flexing, an act almost no one has an issue with. 

One person did, at least, and if some ref hadn't had an issue with a meaningless flex, we wouldn't even be talking about this right now.

How many people have to say this before you get it through your head. IT WASN'T THE FLEX. It was the fact that he was taunting the Burlington crowd that got him the unsportsmanlike.

[ramjet]

Here we go! Luke now showing his displeasure for a specific ref. I bet there is some history. Did this ref some how steal your dreams Luke?

Please let this play out without anymore op-eds.....

[chucker66]

How many people have to say this before you get it through your head. IT WASN'T THE FLEX. It was the fact that he was taunting the Burlington crowd that got him the unsportsmanlike.

What waste-of-time semantics argument are you trying to make here?

He flexed. The ref deemed the flex was a taunt. He didn't flex AND taunt separately. Why are you wasting your own time trying to separate the two, when they were one in the same?

The flex was called a taunt.

FIFY

[bigG]

You mean like people taking a refs call of taunting to court?

I fear if the boy's unicorns and rainbows come true, it will be more to his maleficence than his beneficence. Just IMHO. Only time will tell.

All I know is if a ref dings my kid for taunting, I put it on the kid. Yes, in that situation as well. Gotta stay in control when things get heated. Learning experience. I guess he might not get that chance to grow, now. I hope he gets the chance to grow, though, despite the enablers in his world. I'm sure if things work out against him the ref will be the culprit. Pretty twisted; but such is our world. Stinkin' reality!

So, keep supporting the unicorns and rainbows of the legal system; as opposed to the reality of the refs simple call. The one that really raised the tension in that situation, in which I'm sure the ref was trying to re-establish control, was whoever the adult was who screamed "what the h--l was that!" right before the young man's purported profanity and subsequent taunt call.

When we rely on refs, we needn't enter planet unicorn/rainbow. Boring old earth, there. The right attorney can make dreams come true, though.

[FoldEmUp]

How many people have to say this before you get it through your head. IT WASN'T THE FLEX. It was the fact that he was taunting the Burlington crowd that got him the unsportsmanlike.

What waste-of-time semantics argument are you trying to make here?

He flexed. The ref deemed the flex was a taunt. He didn't flex AND taunt separately. Why are you wasting your own time trying to separate the two, when they were one in the same?

The flex was called a taunt.

Luke, I stand with you. The flex was called a taunt. Which was pathetic anyway. People keep trying to act like his dad and the Burlington crowd were a mile apart, when in REALITY his dad was right next to the Burlington section. Most people don't even realize who is dad is to figure that out.

I am going to tell you the same thing Coconut Joe told me just because I went off on Jared Donar, saying he was not going to do well in college, which he didn't..." Hang in there buddy, some people just want to talk about rainbows and unicorns on here " 

By saying this you prove you don't know the facts.  You can see the dad briefly in the video that the mom posted.  The kid flexed nowhere in the vicinity of his dad.  His dad in the video was on the left side of the scorer's table in an argument with another ref.  The kid flexed towards the other side (the direction of the opposite corner of the mat) towards the Burlington section.  They weren't miles apart, but there is no way you can say he was flexing at his dad.  He knew exactly where his dad was and to flex at him he would have had to almost have been flexing directly at the video his mom was taking.  He didn't.  It wasn't a celebratory flex, he was clearly taunting the crowd.  Add in his antics prior to the flex in demonstratively questioning the refs call which had no significance in the outcome of the match and that is all we saw from the video.  Anyone ever follow up with the two refs and Halters opponent to confirm the vulgarity? 

[1Iota]

FoldEmUp--

Were you even there or did you just watch the video? If you were there in person, you would notice things a little different. Also, your directions are just a bit off. Good try though. But okay, you win!! Let's say he did flex directly to Burlington, oh my gosh...a simple flex at the crowd? I have seen wrestlers do "REAL" taunting directly at there opponents faces, and the bottom line is that is way worse then what he ever did.

Did he swear at the ref? don't know...but if he did, hit him a point for that or whatever heck ya...that's uncalled for. I find it funny when the word taunt gets thrown into this it makes it so much worse then it seems.

I was there.  He clearly was flexing at the Burlington crowd and not his Father.  I said the day after I did not agree with the DQ, but this revisionist history is ridiculous.  Also, the original penalty was for his behavior after the call he disagreed with.  As for you earlier claim that most people wouldn't know the Father, tells me you don't really know what you're talking about.  The Father used to coach for Waterford and has been around the wrestling scene in the Southern Lakes area for years.  Most people at this event know who he is. 

[DocWrestling]

1) The ref did absolutely nothing wrong.  He followed the rules.  Some seem to be more upset because other refs have looked away in terms of rules.
2) The wrestler is young and screwed up.  I will not necessarily hold it against the wrestler but he has certainly demonstrated a pattern of behavior in 2 seasons.  I will not boo him but I may not cheer.  People must earn respect in my circles and I don't just automatically respect or cheer for "talent".  He is certainly a great wrestler.
3) My main issue is with the parents, coaches, and AD.  None of them stood up to teach accountability.  Many thought the punishment was harsh but the punishment was one event.  That is not harsh other than the timing of it.  Now many want rules changed because of the timing?  I also have a problem with the coach and AD for even trying to use a JV event to serve the suspension and skirt the meaning of the rule and avoid consequences.  Does that mean high school is more about chasing championships than teaching young boys into becoming men and focusing on life lessons.

Adults booing are a problem but the bigger problem was the adults directly involved from this wrestler's school.  None of these adults care at all now about the judges rulings on possible technicalities within WIAA.  They will not care if the WIAA changes.  If they cared they would have cared before this happened.  The sole goal will be to not have his title stripped and even that is shallow thinking.  Everyone will always know he won it so who cares other than egos what ends up in record book.

[imnofish]

It's too bad that this thread on booing in the state finals quickly devolved into the discussion of a specific case.  

[DocWrestling]

It's too bad that this thread on booing in the state finals quickly devolved into the discussion of a specific case.  

??  There would not have been booing in the state finals if this specific case did not exist.  If the wrestler would have lost at any time I think you would have heard the opposite and heard more cheering than normal

[grasshopper]

It's too bad that this thread on booing in the state finals quickly devolved into the discussion of a specific case. 

I agree this conversation has shifted slightly from the goal of my original post.  I will say that for the most part the the consensus is that (regardless of the wrestler’s presence in the tournament) booing him in the finals was not necessary and was inappropriate. 
Personally I agree with this, however I’m not sure that I can personally 100% agree with a “never boo a HS athlete” stance that some have stated as well (not that it isn’t a good policy for those believe that).  I know that personally I would (and probably have already) boo(ed) a wrestler who has been excessively dirty (throwing punches, dangerous slams out of bounds, and etc.) or who have performed classless acts and taunts to an opponent.  I have no personal experience with the case in the topic, but it is very possible that I may have booed him at that DUAL while he was performing the alleged “taunt”.  Heck I might have even booed him if he had wrestled dirty or acted like a jerk in the state finals; but in this particular case I think it was inappropriate to boo him on the biggest stage in Wisconsin wrestling for something that occurred weeks ago. 
P.S  yes there are worse things than booing and there are worse things than flexing at a crowd. Those aren’t really valid arguments in my opinion. There are worse things than getting kicked in the groin and there are worse things that stealing someone’s lunch money; but that doesn’t mean that you should kick someone in the groin because they stole your lunch money 2 weeks ago (my terrible attempt at an analogy to the situation). This thread is essentially about discussing whether the “punishment” levied by the Kohl center fit the “crime”.

[jeast]

Techfall...you can say that about Mr. Donar if you were better than .500 at a B1G school. If in fact your record is better than that, congratulations and what a talent you are, especially to come on here and dis a great young man's career at UW. IF not, you're in no place to judge. Did you even wrestle in College? Do you know the commitment and dedication it takes? I doubt very much that you have an inkling of the sacrifice and effort that Collegiate wrestling takes if you can post something like this years after the fact. What are you looking for? Cudos because of some statement you made years ago about a HS/Collegiate athlete? Ok, here you go....

You rock.

[jeast]

Jeast old buddy don't get too worked up over someone that talks about rainbows & unicorns and has a Enrique Iglacious song for a quote.

Sorry CObadgerfan...you make a great point. All is well.

[bigG]

1Iota--

When I say most people don't realize who his father is, I mean directly on this forum. Out of all the talk over this, and between different threads, it has hardly been brought up who his dad actually is, point being, People like BigG, had no clue that his dad is the one shouting out what the H*** on video. Of course people within the Southern Lakes Conference are going to have a better idea.

Oh, I had a clue. I did suspect as much. Just didn't want to say, as I didn't know for sure. THAT was what created the tensions, IMO. I wasn't there, though. Just watched the video.

Either way. I don't back booing a kid. Kids don't enable themselves. They are enabled from parents fighting their battles.

We as wrestling fans should have a better handle on our own emotions, or we're just as bad as the over-the-top parent. We've seen a lot worse:biting, going for the eyes (love the new NCAA focus on that), pinky bustin', etc. Let the refs do their job or become one. Whether you agree or not with the specific case brought up, no reason to boo. Nature has a way of equaling things out in the end.

COBadger fan, that was great.

I loved watching Donar wrestle. He represented well and was obviously 100% invested. They can't all be NCAA champs; but Badger wrestlers gave/give it all, then and now.

Very unfortunate chain of events to bruise a fine season of our favorite sport. Props to those many men who paid the price and competed at our finest HS tourney. Once again, we focus on one bad event.

I just worry about precedent, here. I work a lot in courts, jail and doing transports of inmates. I've interviewed suspects and also do pretty much the same in my school when things run afoul. I've noticed that hindsight is far from the 20/20 many believe it is. Unreal the difference in interpretation of past events from only 2 different sources. One tries to unveil the essence of the facts. Attorneys are very good at presenting the "facts" from one side. Will the ref get to speak for himself? Should he have to? That will be the story from here on out, sadly. Now we're supposed to rely on a judge who may or may not know a thing about wrestling to weed those things out.

But don't give me no unicorn/rainbow crap for supporting the ref's judgement.

"I can be your hero, baby."

You're MY Ditka!