Participation numbers

[Handles II]

I remember in elementary/middle school we had wrestling in Phy-Ed class. Why did this stop? It was a great introduction for many kids to learn the sport.

This would greatly help if it returned to the curriculum

I teach it at the 7th grade level. I only get 2 class periods for each group of kids, but it's better than none. The reality is that most PE classes have non-wrestling people as teachers, just like all other classes. Not many former wrestlers go into education.

I am sure there are not allot of "Floor Hockey" and "Vollyball" "Dodgeball" players going into Phy Ed either but they all try it in Phy Ed. My point is exposure to variety of physical activities should be on the menu. Wrestling should be one of them. No trying to demean or criticize just saying try it. Heck they even have gymnastics in many classes so why not wrestling ?

Because of  A. interest in teaching it B. knowledge in teaching it C. and admin approval.  If the teachers aren't interested in teaching it, odds are they won't. Those other activites are really simple to teach AND they don't have the whole "touching" issue that wrestling does. Partner dancing isn't taught much anymore due to that as well.

[imnofish]

Good point.  When I first started coaching middle school wrestlers, we had a boys P.E. teacher who coached basketball, but wanted to give kids a more comprehensive experience in his class.  So, at the beginning of my first year at the school, he asked me to stay after school, to teach him the basics and help him develop a wrestling unit for his classes.  We had a sports schedule at the time that encouraged kids to try all the sports back then, since none of the seasons overlapped.  He and I both worked together to encourage the kids to try all sports at least once.  The result was a large turnout for all middle school and high school sports;had 2,400 inhabitants back then, but our middle school wrestlers (grades 6-8) were as many as 70 or 80 back then.  Now, the youth sports programs compete for these kids when they are practically still in diapers, overlap sports seasons, and push for year-round participation.  Another thing that really helped was that our school schedule was not so packed with new subjects back then and we had more staff.  This allowed our school to have a 9 period day, with everyone having a study hall during the last hour.  The principal would cover my study hall once per year, so I could meet will all of the boys in the gym.  This gave me a chance to promote the sport, answer programs, sign up interested students, and hand out information packets, etc.  The other coaches had the same option.  Now, there are fewer class periods, expanded curricular requirements, and fewer staff members due to budget cuts.  Also, teachers' responsibilities have multiplied to such an extent that fewer of them now have the time and energy to coach, or at least coach for long periods of time.  There are also fewer teachers on staff.

When people simply say that kids have changed this is what I tell them.  Sometimes I think the kids have changed less than the world around them has changed.  More single parents and even if a kid has both parents, in general all parents work longer hours and have more stuff going on outside of the family unit.  Schools have changed.  Teachers have changed. Coaches have changed.  In general the lives of all adults are much different than they were 30 years ago.  The way schools and adults treat kids is much different now.  Kids are still the young naive kids they have always been with a few more options than kids in the 80's had. 

Think of what youth wrestling tournaments were in the 80's and what they are now.  I think I wrestled at tournaments in shorts and a T-shirt until maybe 5th grade.  Our middle schools had duals with weight classes with coaches that were teachers.  Freshman were still at the middle school/junior high.

The world has changed! 

Yes, the world has changed.  It always does.  Yet, in general, human nature has not.  What we have to do is find ways to meet kids' needs in ways that help them bond with wrestling, as well as the wrestling community.  How well are we collectively meeting that objective? 

[imnofish]

I remember in elementary/middle school we had wrestling in Phy-Ed class. Why did this stop? It was a great introduction for many kids to learn the sport.

This would greatly help if it returned to the curriculum

I teach it at the 7th grade level. I only get 2 class periods for each group of kids, but it's better than none. The reality is that most PE classes have non-wrestling people as teachers, just like all other classes. Not many former wrestlers go into education.

I am sure there are not allot of "Floor Hockey" and "Vollyball" "Dodgeball" players going into Phy Ed either but they all try it in Phy Ed. My point is exposure to variety of physical activities should be on the menu. Wrestling should be one of them. No trying to demean or criticize just saying try it. Heck they even have gymnastics in many classes so why not wrestling ?

Because of  A. interest in teaching it B. knowledge in teaching it C. and admin approval.  If the teachers aren't interested in teaching it, odds are they won't. Those other activites are really simple to teach AND they don't have the whole "touching" issue that wrestling does. Partner dancing isn't taught much anymore due to that as well.

Yes, co-ed P.E. classes (to save money) has certainly limited what can be taught. 

[padre]

I found this interesting at our school just for a subtle point.

We have youth girls volleyball that starts in 3rd grade in the schools and club volleyball that starts in 5th grade.  Girls volleyball is very popular hear.

12 girls tried out for freshman team this year.

There is no boys youth volleyball program until high school.  17 freshman boys tried out that had never played before.  More than we got on the wrestling team.

Interesting.

One of the bad things about youth sports is kids quit because they don't think they are good enough long before they have seen all their skills develop and body's develop.  Kids are all different sizes through puberty and some kids are ahead of the game and kids quit before they could have passed those others by.  In boys volleyball nobody is ahead of the others or nobody knows who is better so they all give it a try

We are a small high school and same thing has happened with volleyball.  It's not so much that they are burnt out but they know where they stand as far as playing time in high school and most don't want to be bench warmers.

[switch_it]

Just my two cents to this intriguing discussion.

I am a Physical Education teacher and wrestler who has grown up loving wrestling my entire life.  My only point on that is this.  P.E. should not be treated as a spring board for building any sports program, including basketball, football, wrestling, etc...  If  your argument to include wrestling in a PE curriculum is to boost "extra" curricular numbers, your argument is for the wrong reasons.  PE is about developing knowledge, skills and attitudes to lead a healthy, active lifestyle.

As for wrestling at the Elementary level, why not make it only on your feet until MS level?  Introduce bottom, riding and pinning combinations in MS. 

[DocWrestling]

We are a small high school and same thing has happened with volleyball.  It's not so much that they are burnt out but they know where they stand as far as playing time in high school and most don't want to be bench warmers.

Absolutely true but the odd thing is that wrestling has no benchwarmers.  Kids quit lots of sports because there are only so many spots and they "think" they are not good enough and they won't be able to compete.  But in wrestling there are a lot of open spots to wrestle varsity or JV. Every wrestler gets to compete

[MNbadger]

But in reality, it is used as a springboard for other sports....... In my district the only sports not covered in the Phy. Ed. Curriculum are wrestling, alpine skiing, and Nordic skiing (recently dropped from the curriculum).
They do floor hockey, basketball, volleyball, running(track/cross country),softball, badminton, tennis, soccer, flag football.  Why would these be more valuable for developing knowledge, skills, and attitudes to lead a healthy, active lifestyle than wrestling?

Just my two cents to this intriguing discussion.

I am a Physical Education teacher and wrestler who has grown up loving wrestling my entire life.  My only point on that is this.  P.E. should not be treated as a spring board for building any sports program, including basketball, football, wrestling, etc...  If  your argument to include wrestling in a PE curriculum is to boost "extra" curricular numbers, your argument is for the wrong reasons.  PE is about developing knowledge, skills and attitudes to lead a healthy, active lifestyle.

As for wrestling at the Elementary level, why not make it only on your feet until MS level?  Introduce bottom, riding and pinning combinations in MS. 

[BT]

I think in general, most folks would agree kids today are different from years past.  If not, I think all would agree that if kids haven't, the world available to them and around them has changed dramatically.  That said, the change in kid and or the world around them, that is stark and easy to see, is met with a shocking resistance to change.  Whatever the answers are, realizing we have to adapt as a sport should be a no-brainer but is met with shocking resistance...seemingly by folks that are the quickest to bemoan today's kids.  Can't do both. The sport needs to step back from what benefits the elite, and consider the majority.  What's best for the sport's future as a whole is crucial to keep in mind.  My team isn't great, but we have a full lineup.  Despite that, it's impossible to ignore the byes and forfeits in team lineups.  Be it a shorter season, a continuous season after the x-mas break, a reduction in weight classes or examining antiquated rules like hair, we need to be mindful of adapting to fit the times.

[imnofish]

I think in general, most folks would agree kids today are different from years past.  If not, I think all would agree that if kids haven't, the world available to them and around them has changed dramatically.  That said, the change in kid and or the world around them, that is stark and easy to see, is met with a shocking resistance to change.  Whatever the answers are, realizing we have to adapt as a sport should be a no-brainer but is met with shocking resistance...seemingly by folks that are the quickest to bemoan today's kids.  Can't do both. The sport needs to step back from what benefits the elite, and consider the majority.  What's best for the sport's future as a whole is crucial to keep in mind.  My team isn't great, but we have a full lineup.  Despite that, it's impossible to ignore the byes and forfeits in team lineups.  Be it a shorter season, a continuous season after the x-mas break, a reduction in weight classes or examining antiquated rules like hair, we need to be mindful of adapting to fit the times.

Yes!  I think the key to doing what's best for the sport has to hinge on what today's kids need to gain from their participation in it.  If we focus on finding out what that is, rather than automatically assuming the validity of traditional paradigms, it would be a step in the right direction, IMO. 

[Handles II]

The video of the parents fighting at the youth tournament is now highly circulating on social media. It's not a good look for our sport, but my hopes are that it helps us really push for parents in the stands.

As many of us are or were HS coaches, we certainly wouldn't want that type of behavior, or parents on the mat in our tournaments. We understand how negative that could be for even HS wrestlers (although at our Sectional meet, 3 in the corner for some teams seemed to mean 4 coaches, 2 video, 2 camera, the kid's youth coach, club coach, two practice partners, and Uncle Joe). Why on earth would we continue to allow this for our (hopefully) future wrestlers? It MUST change.

[DocWrestling]

It would be nice if we followed Illinois and only allowed wrestlers to register through a coach.  Then each tournament can issue lanyards with credentials to each team.  Maybe one credential per five wrestlers.  Only those with the credentials can be matside.

Now the problem is size of tournaments as many do not even have enough seats if we required everyone in the stands.

We have to get rid of K-8 tournaments and only have two age groups at each tournament.  Now they can be managed.  Right now it is get as many people in your building as you can and get them out as fast as you can and that is not really a system that is good for anyone and certainly not for participation.

My impression is that we are losing all the "average" wrestlers.  The "good" and "excellent" wrestlers keep going to tournaments and keep competing.  Then we always seem to have beginners trying out the sport but I think as they become average they are over the tournament scene and disappear.

The tournaments certainly are not a welcome atmosphere to new families that have never been to a wrestling tournament before.   

[ramjet]

The video of the parents fighting at the youth tournament is now highly circulating on social media. It's not a good look for our sport, but my hopes are that it helps us really push for parents in the stands.

As many of us are or were HS coaches, we certainly wouldn't want that type of behavior, or parents on the mat in our tournaments. We understand how negative that could be for even HS wrestlers (although at our Sectional meet, 3 in the corner for some teams seemed to mean 4 coaches, 2 video, 2 camera, the kid's youth coach, club coach, two practice partners, and Uncle Joe). Why on earth would we continue to allow this for our (hopefully) future wrestlers? It MUST change.

Agreed

Can you imagine the kid and the tons of "instruction" coming form 3-different adults etc.....crazy tough on the kids. Heck tough for any adult to follow much less a younger kid. I say make youth dual based compititions it would put everyone in better place.

[Handles II]

Ben Askren had a nice video post about this, and he repeated what he's said many times in the past, there is zero reason (other than money) why we should have k-2 competition, and even for 3-4 it's unnecessary. This could eliminate some of the parent on the mat problems and be helpful for the sport as a whole.

[imnofish]

Ben Askren had a nice video post about this, and he repeated what he's said many times in the past, there is zero reason (other than money) why we should have k-2 competition, and even for 3-4 it's unnecessary. This could eliminate some of the parent on the mat problems and be helpful for the sport as a whole.

Absolutely agree!  If there is any program below 5th grade, it should be intramural, noncompetitive, and focused on learning and having fun.  That should be the formula for all youth sports. 

[gablesgrip1]

The WWF and USA wrestling need to stop with the 4th grade and younger national and state tournaments.  All about making money and they do not care about the average wrestlers.  The WWF generate tons of money from these young families only to lose more than half or more of them by the time they are in high school.  And the WIAA don't care either because all they want is the top 16 kids at high school state