Why kids quit wrestling.

[uncle Fester]

I quit because I got old and lazy...

[Dale Einerson]

Dale,
You had kids competing in two different and solid programs (to say the least).  In your humble opinion, was there more internal or external pressure to make a certain weight class between the two teams?

Granted each team is made up of different individuals, talents, situations, etc as well as your son's each having different personalities and drives. But curious about your take on it.

As a coach I look at it more like when i'm coaching a team sport. I want players to be in a position (or weight) where they are the most effective for themselves and the team. If they aren't effective in that spot, then we need to find an alternate solution. It seems to make sense to my wrestlers, so I really haven't had to do much asking of a kid to make a weight class. If there is an injury or illness, usually they will come to me with their solution. Granted, we aren't even sniffing the tailwind of quality teams yet, and success can change things sometimes for the worse, but it seems there is progress being made.

I appreciate the question Handles; frankly, it is not an easy answer.

From the perspective of "why kids quit wrestling," there is no difference between internal and external pressure as it affects the short term and long term interest in wrestling as a sport, from a wrestler's or a parent's view.

I had 1 kid that didn't cut at all.  Weighed in a full 6-7 pounds under his opponent in the state final match...

I had 3 other kids that cut fairly heavily to round out a line up.  Individually it worked out very well for 2 of them; team-wise it worked out for all of those 3.  Yet, it makes the season very long, affects grades and school performance.  Since I have had 3 wrestle in college, so far, one could argue that the long term affects are not at issue.  However, as the 2 in college right now mature and reach those Junior and Senior seasons, they are still willing and able to make deep cuts, but I see they are less likely to.  They know they can beat out those at similar weights so they are picking their weights and letting others go around them...which, puts that internal and external pressure on others.

I see this as something "normal" or "integral" in the team aspect of the sport, for those individuals on teams that expect to have team success.  It is a complex and emotional topic; I believe, is something that is unattractive about the sport to outsiders and even some participants.

Think about how many times we have heard somebody outside the sport say something along the lines, "wrestlers are crazy!"  The wrestlers and wrestling fans kind of wear comments like that with the same pride they wear gnarly ears.  Yet, it is that craziness and gnarliness that can keep some parents from introducing the sport to their kids, in my rarely humble opinion.

[ramjet]

Dale let me explain where I am coming from;

You eluded to the perception about weight cut and wrestling. I think each and everyone of us has t do everything we can to stop those preconceived notions about weight cutting in wrestling. That includes but is not limited direct conversation with anyone who expresses those sentiments based on the past. I.e. rubber suits saunas and starving. The system in place although not perfect is far healthier and a tremendous step in the right direction.

I would frequently have conversations to wrestlers who gave the perceptions they were starving to make weight. The fact was they ski folded 40 lbs under the walk around weight and if they just cut out soda energy drinks and potato chips they would have easily cut the 10 lbs they wanted too.

Your earlier comments are bad for us they see us in disagree,wNt about weight cutting then they hold on too those out of date perceptions about wrestling and weight cut.

It's a personal choice. Assure I agree internal pressure plays factor but folks like Ben Askren are doing the right thing by being open about weight cut and others are as well. That's the direction and steps we need to take and a healthy weight is not 20 lbs over the ideal weight for the hieght and bone structure of an individual.

Funny not too many talk about the tremendous weight gain football players that play then
one under go at times. The  many get out and drop 50-100 lbs. Which is healthier?

[1Iota]

Dale let me explain where I am coming from;

You eluded to the perception about weight cut and wrestling. I think each and everyone of us has t do everything we can to stop those preconceived notions about weight cutting in wrestling. That includes but is not limited direct conversation with anyone who expresses those sentiments based on the past. I.e. rubber suits saunas and starving. The system in place although not perfect is far healthier and a tremendous step in the right direction.

I would frequently have conversations to wrestlers who gave the perceptions they were starving to make weight. The fact was they ski folded 40 lbs under the walk around weight and if they just cut out soda energy drinks and potato chips they would have easily cut the 10 lbs they wanted too.

Your earlier comments are bad for us they see us in disagree,wNt about weight cutting then they hold on too those out of date perceptions about wrestling and weight cut.

It's a personal choice. Assure I agree internal pressure plays factor but folks like Ben Askren are doing the right thing by being open about weight cut and others are as well. That's the direction and steps we need to take and a healthy weight is not 20 lbs over the ideal weight for the hieght and bone structure of an individual.

Funny not too many talk about the tremendous weight gain football players that play then
one under go at times. The  many get out and drop 50-100 lbs. Which is healthier?

Until we in the wrestling community are honest about the reality of the sport, don't expect anyone on the outside to have a different perception.  There is still a tremendous emphasis on cutting weight in our sport & while the skin fold test has helped reduce the health risk, it has not changed the focus on cutting.  Why is cutting weight still so much a part of our sport?  Because it works.  With all other things being equal, the naturally larger competitor has an advantage in size & strength.  Youth, HS, college, & Olympic athletes all understand this universal rule.   The dedicated serious wrestler is going to be willing to make the sacrifices necessary to give himself every competitive advantage.  Many other kids will not be willing to do this & thus will find themselves at a competitive disadvantage which causes them to leave the sport. 

HS football is not an apples to apples comparison.  The excessive weight gains seen in football generally come at the college & pro level.  Most HS kids are naturally growing.  Also, this growth is in the form of muscle, which is not the same as adding 50lbs of fat.   

[ramjet]

Skinfold has made that weight cutting healthy the intent of that rule. As far as weight cutting as long as it done healthy I see little issue in it that was my point from the start. But let's face the days of rubber suits and spitting all day are behind us for the most part.

[crossface21]

It's going to take a generation or 2 to start getting rid of the stigma of weight cutting and wrestling to the degree that it has been in the past. However, the top teams will continue to push it to some degree to get all the best wrestlers in the line up. There are parents right now that cut weight in HS and college that push that on their kids as the way it has to be. It's going to take time and education of weight cutting before it changes for the better. Cutting weight has improved at the HS level IMO, but it's still an issue. Maybe not to the extent that it was 20 years ago, but it will still happen. IMO, the teams that aren't as successful don't need to push it as much because obviously they don't have as much to gain.

[MNbadger]

Iota,
"HS football is not an apples to apples comparison.  The excessive weight gains seen in football generally come at the college & pro level.  Most HS kids are naturally growing.  Also, this growth is in the form of muscle, which is not the same as adding 50lbs of fat." 

Not so, read this:


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/30/sports/30obesity.html?_r=3&;

[ramjet]

Added

[bigoil]

I hear over and over again from kids, that they don't want to wear those skin tight spandex uniforms, that shows their stuff.

Adding to that stigma of the Singlet is the perception that wrestlers (I have two specific occurrences of that this past week one being specific about a person another being about the sport)are gay, not that there is anything wrong with that but to a 12-18 YO kid, those words can have a major effect on your decisions.

[1Iota]

Skinfold has made that weight cutting healthy the intent of that rule. As far as weight cutting as long as it done healthy I see little issue in it that was my point from the start. But let's face the days of rubber suits and spitting all day are behind us for the most part.

I agree that the skin fold has dramatically reduced the health concerns. It has not however reduced the prevalence for cutting weight in order to compete.  This thread was specifically asking why kids leave the sport, & whether healthy or not, cutting weight is not fun.  Many kids decide they do not want to participate in a sport in which cutting weight is a necessary component to being successful.   

[imnofish]

Iota,
"HS football is not an apples to apples comparison.  The excessive weight gains seen in football generally come at the college & pro level.  Most HS kids are naturally growing.  Also, this growth is in the form of muscle, which is not the same as adding 50lbs of fat." 

Not so, read this:


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/30/sports/30obesity.html?_r=3&

Even as kids grow, many football coaches do encourage kids to eat large amounts of food and lift weights year-round.  When I was in high school, my coach got my schedule changed so I could eat all 3 lunch periods.  I lifted weights like crazy and ate like a pig, so I could bulk up to a whopping 175.  Then, I cut 30 lbs., so I could wrestle at 145.  This was back in the late 60s/early 70s, so that's probably just old school thinking, right?  Wrong! Just 3 years ago, my nephew was being encouraged to do the same thing.  He played football as high as 265, then cut down to 220 for wrestling.  Not a healthy dynamic, IMO.

[billymurphy]

Wrestling is a Dang tough sport.
Not all kids have the personality for it.
It is a great skill to learn for sure.

[Dale Einerson]

Dale let me explain where I am coming from;

You eluded to the perception about weight cut and wrestling. I think each and everyone of us has t do everything we can to stop those preconceived notions about weight cutting in wrestling. That includes but is not limited direct conversation with anyone who expresses those sentiments based on the past. I.e. rubber suits saunas and starving. The system in place although not perfect is far healthier and a tremendous step in the right direction.

I would frequently have conversations to wrestlers who gave the perceptions they were starving to make weight. The fact was they ski folded 40 lbs under the walk around weight and if they just cut out soda energy drinks and potato chips they would have easily cut the 10 lbs they wanted too.

Your earlier comments are bad for us they see us in disagree,wNt about weight cutting then they hold on too those out of date perceptions about wrestling and weight cut.

It's a personal choice. Assure I agree internal pressure plays factor but folks like Ben Askren are doing the right thing by being open about weight cut and others are as well. That's the direction and steps we need to take and a healthy weight is not 20 lbs over the ideal weight for the hieght and bone structure of an individual.

Funny not too many talk about the tremendous weight gain football players that play then
one under go at times. The  many get out and drop 50-100 lbs. Which is healthier?

Until we in the wrestling community are honest about the reality of the sport, don't expect anyone on the outside to have a different perception.  There is still a tremendous emphasis on cutting weight in our sport & while the skin fold test has helped reduce the health risk, it has not changed the focus on cutting.  Why is cutting weight still so much a part of our sport?  Because it works.  With all other things being equal, the naturally larger competitor has an advantage in size & strength.  Youth, HS, college, & Olympic athletes all understand this universal rule.   The dedicated serious wrestler is going to be willing to make the sacrifices necessary to give himself every competitive advantage.  Many other kids will not be willing to do this & thus will find themselves at a competitive disadvantage which causes them to leave the sport. 

HS football is not an apples to apples comparison.  The excessive weight gains seen in football generally come at the college & pro level.  Most HS kids are naturally growing.  Also, this growth is in the form of muscle, which is not the same as adding 50lbs of fat.   

All things being considered, I didn't "elude to a perception" at all...I answered a thread on why kids quit wrestling with an honest answer.  Just had dinner last night with a high school state champion who turned into a successful college wrestler  Unprompted, he brought up that the weight cutting affects school performance and social interaction.  I decided not to argue with him...

[Say-Say]

Wrestling is a Dang tough sport.
Not all kids have the personality for it.

This.

[Oldtimer]

I hear over and over again from kids, that they don't want to wear those skin tight spandex uniforms, that shows their stuff.

Adding to that stigma of the Singlet is the perception that wrestlers (I have two specific occurrences of that this past week one being specific about a person another being about the sport)are gay, not that there is anything wrong with that but to a 12-18 YO kid, those words can have a major effect on your decisions.

I take this one with a grain of salt.  Some people also think wrestlers look like beasts in a singlet.  I've seen some incredibly sharp looking singlets out there.  Kids trade them at big tournaments.  They are afraid they look gay???  Seriously??? Kid needs some education.  Somewhere down the road someone won't want to wrestle if you go to shorts because they don't like them.  If someone doesn't want to wrestle only because of the singlet I probably don't want them anyway.  I foresee mucho complaining and excuses about stuff down the road from them rather than developing and improving.  Wow... I'm usually not this opinionated.  Must have struck a nerve.