Why kids quit wrestling.

[ramjet]

Here lets see what folks perspectives are; you can vote more than once if you want to vote for more than one item....... feel free.

[Handles II]

Do not go out at what age level? There are big differences in the reasons why a seven year old wouldn't join wrestling than a 17 year old.

[DocWrestling]

All are relevant

The time commitment depends on the age.

For youth, it is parents that do not want to give up weekends.  This happens in all sports for any travel sport

For HS, it is the kids that do not want to give up Saturdays.  No other HS sport has to give up so many Saturdays/weekends

[ElectricGuy]

  No other HS sport has to give up so many Saturdays/weekends

You keep banging that drum,  there is no magic bullet for that other than for that team to participate in less tournaments - that's left to that school (kind of like states rights - leave that to that school to find the balance)  I understand eating up a Saturday isn't ideal, but our JV does maybe 5-6 Saturdays over 3 1/2 months - I don't think it drives participation either way.  I believe on JV it's understood that some can skip some of those 5 or 6 if they have to.

Also - just a FYI - our Cross country schedule has 9 Saturdays through sectionals,  participation in our CC both boys and girls has never been higher.   Just sayin...

[DocWrestling]

Some kids do quit wrestling due to the singlet as they approach middle and high school as the become self conscious but I don't think it is many.

There are basketball games, hockey games, cross country meets, etc on some Saturdays but they only last 2 hours.

Volleyball tournaments are the only thing I can think of that comes close to a wrestling tournament especially since our high school baseball team no longer plays doubleheaders on Saturdays.

I do believe if we reduced the amount of weekend events as well as the length of those events we would have more wrestlers and certainly more coaches.  And this is me speaking who is director of the Marty Loy Classic which weighs in at 7:30am and ends at 8:30pm so I guess you could say I am a hypocrite.

Coaches need to look at their schedules and make it easier on themselves and there wrestlers.  Do all those matches really get you better and those long days.  Why not get 5 teams together on a weekday night and just get each wrestler 2-3 quality matches with those of similar talent.  Does not have to be a tournament.  A couple Saturday tournaments are needed and work.

Tournaments right now are built for the top kids.  Many wrestlers are eliminated early and sit around a long time.  Do they always come back the next year?

Tournament formats could also be looked at and overall schedule
1) First rounds are usually a waste of time for the top seeds.  Have A and B level varsity tournaments based on the individuals.  If you have 16 wrestlers, place the top 8 seeds in the gold bracket and the bottom 8 in the silver bracket.  More quality matches.  Kind of what a scramble does already.  Could shorten up tournaments.
2) Get rid of regionals and just have sectionals-  Only wrestlers with winning records qualify for sectionals- Gets rid of one weekend
3) Wrestle individual state and team state the same weekend- gets rid of another weekend

Just throwing out ideas

[aarons23]

Some kids do quit wrestling due to the singlet as they approach middle and high school as the become self conscious but I don't think it is many.

There are basketball games, hockey games, cross country meets, etc on some Saturdays but they only last 2 hours.

Volleyball tournaments are the only thing I can think of that comes close to a wrestling tournament especially since our high school baseball team no longer plays doubleheaders on Saturdays.

I do believe if we reduced the amount of weekend events as well as the length of those events we would have more wrestlers and certainly more coaches.  And this is me speaking who is director of the Marty Loy Classic which weighs in at 7:30am and ends at 8:30pm so I guess you could say I am a hypocrite.

Coaches need to look at their schedules and make it easier on themselves and there wrestlers.  Do all those matches really get you better and those long days.  Why not get 5 teams together on a weekday night and just get each wrestler 2-3 quality matches with those of similar talent.  Does not have to be a tournament.  A couple Saturday tournaments are needed and work.

Tournaments right now are built for the top kids.  Many wrestlers are eliminated early and sit around a long time.  Do they always come back the next year?

Tournament formats could also be looked at and overall schedule
1) First rounds are usually a waste of time for the top seeds.  Have A and B level varsity tournaments based on the individuals.  If you have 16 wrestlers, place the top 8 seeds in the gold bracket and the bottom 8 in the silver bracket.  More quality matches.  Kind of what a scramble does already.  Could shorten up tournaments.
2) Get rid of regionals and just have sectionals-  Only wrestlers with winning records qualify for sectionals- Gets rid of one weekend
3) Wrestle individual state and team state the same weekend- gets rid of another weekend

Just throwing out ideas

so are you changing the format for the Loy?  if not why?

[ElectricGuy]

You beat me too it aaron was going to ask the same question.  Are you changing up the format?

Also, seems like you have some pull, why has Fondy not changed to more of those duals during the week night like your advocating?

I do like your 2 & 3 ideas - btw


Also,  if you think CC is only 2 hrs on a Saturday - it's leaving he house by 7am, busing, warming up, JV compete, Varsity compete travel back -  most days back home by 1-2pm

As for Hockey - yea you might only get two 90 min games one Saturday (not counting the game Friday night) -  but you have to add the 6 hrs waiting between games on that Sat and travel back.    Their all long and painful.

Doc - I thought you said you had kids?   Must not have any in Hockey or CC?

I am looking forward to the new Marty Low format this year and some feedback on how it goes.

[DocWrestling]

Here are my personal responses

1) Regarding the Marty Loy-  I simply run the tournament for the high school under the direction of all the coaches.  The coaches like the Marty Loy even though it is a long day because it is a unique tournament that combines a varsity tourney with a JV tourney at same time in same location (some have not and wanted the JV portion eliminated and left but they have always been the extreme minority).  This is the reason it is a long day.  With so many teams and the format most varsity wrestlers get quality matches and with so many wrestlers we can really bracket up JV's in 8-man brackets with kids of similar ability so the coaches feel it is worth it.  I work for the coaches, if the majority of coaches want a change I would be happy to follow through.  I think the Marty Loy is worth the long day but I agree all these teams would not want that length of a day for all their tournaments.  We run it as fast as we can on 10 mats.  There is not one break like many tournaments do to lengthen the day.

2) I have no pull with the high school team as I am not a coach.  I have shared my ideas with many coaches in and outside of our program.  In speaking with these coaches you find out they are caught in a hard place trying to stick their necks out on their own.  There is nothing against going to fewer events than the maximum or starting their season after Thanksgiving but many fear back lash for being different.  All changes usually make someone happy and another angry.  Very tough to keep everyone happy.  Coaches can also not do it alone.  If they want to have a different format multi-dual some night, they do need other coaches to want and be able to do the same.  That can be very tough when teams are in different conferences with different commitments.

Not everyone agrees especially within the same conference.  I even think our dual meets take too long.  I wish we could go back to wrestling JV and varsity simultaneously on two side by side mats.  Everyone in gym at same time and more energy and shorter night.

I think the long nights and long Saturdays are costing us more coaches than they are wrestlers.  What a sacrifice for a coach with a family to give up all that weekend time.

In terms of youth sports, I agree it is too many weekends as I do have 4 kids that are in youth football (game every Saturday), travel volleyball, travel tennis, travel basketball, wrestling, and of course travel baseball could be worst of all with taking up whole weekends.  I enjoy every minute but I am one of those coaches/parents that are committed to my kids and do not feel like they are a burden on my time.  Everyone that posts on here is probably the same.  The issue is that fewer and fewer parents are like that and many are gettinh selfish and overwhelmed with their time especially for those that work weekends.  That is why parents of all these sports and hockey also cannot wait for their kids to get in high school because it for the most part means fewer weekend events in all sports except for possibly wrestling

[ChargerDad]

My daughter plays middle school basketball, and her basketball tournaments make me wish I was at a poorly run K-8 wrestling tournament,  often starting around 8 AM and ending around 7 PM...  Does that mean we can't make an effort to make the days shorter, obviously not:-)

I think one of the things we do that make no sense at all is ask each other why kids are quitting.  We need to be talking to the kids that should be wrestling but are not and their parents because those are the people whose mind we need to change.  Then, we need to consider making the changes that would make them wrestle, whether it be different options for uniforms or different schedules or whatever else they suggest.  If we just dismiss changes that would increase participation because "they aren't tough enough" then the numbers will be what they are, and we will sit around and complain about low numbers forever with no change.

[ramjet]

Charger dad you get the prize for making me laugh that first paragraph was hilarious. 

[ChargerDad]

Charger dad you get the prize for making me laugh that first paragraph was hilarious. 

It's only funny because it's true :-P

[oneshot]

Here are my personal responses

1) Regarding the Marty Loy-  I simply run the tournament for the high school under the direction of all the coaches.  The coaches like the Marty Loy even though it is a long day because it is a unique tournament that combines a varsity tourney with a JV tourney at same time in same location (some have not and wanted the JV portion eliminated and left but they have always been the extreme minority).  

DocWrestling...I feel like I am stalking you on here...in regards to the Marty Loy, don't you think it is a great tournament because of the quality of teams that have been at this event in the past. I beleive it has been considered the toughest one day  tournament in Wisconsin because of the quality teams at this event. As long as you keep the quality I don't know if the format would change things. If you move the JV to another gym and ran varsity in the main gym I think the Marty Loy would continue on just fine.

Just my opinion...I think it is somewhat of a cluster trying to ram the JV kids in for skin checks in the morning and rush them out on the mat as fast as you can and the coaches feel rushed because they are trying to herd JV and make get to coaches meetings for varsity. Last year they were starting JV matches before skin checks were done and the coaches couldn't find the wrestlers.

[DocWrestling]

Oneshot,
I appreciate the feedback.  I do believe it is the quality of tournament that keeps teams coming back and makes it worth while to coaches and athletes to give up an entire Saturday.

The morning is a chaotic mess.  Mainly because we wait until the last minute to create all brackets so we can eliminate all scratches and prevent forfeits in both varsity and JV.  It will be different this year in some ways because the WIAA now mandates that every wrestler must weigh in on every competition day.  Thus we will have to weigh in the JV's and that will take some time and slow things down even if we have them pre-bracketed.  It will make the day a little longer.  In the past the coaches have not wanted to wait until after coaches meeting to start wrestling because it ends up being an hour there with no wrestling going on.  Usually leads to more wasted time.  We have always tried to give a quality wrestling experience without keeping teams there any later than they need to as many have very long bus rides home on Saturday night.

In the past we have started wrestling at 8:15am.  This year we may not be able to start wrestling until 9am.

As far as using the small gym for two mats, that has been discussed at length multiple years with our tournament committee, coaches, and officials but never implemented due to difficulties in communication and other issues.  Basically the problems created outweighed the benefits

[aarons23]

Oneshot,
I appreciate the feedback.  I do believe it is the quality of tournament that keeps teams coming back and makes it worth while to coaches and athletes to give up an entire Saturday.

The morning is a chaotic mess.  Mainly because we wait until the last minute to create all brackets so we can eliminate all scratches and prevent forfeits in both varsity and JV.  It will be different this year in some ways because the WIAA now mandates that every wrestler must weigh in on every competition day.  Thus we will have to weigh in the JV's and that will take some time and slow things down even if we have them pre-bracketed.  It will make the day a little longer.  In the past the coaches have not wanted to wait until after coaches meeting to start wrestling because it ends up being an hour there with no wrestling going on.  Usually leads to more wasted time.  We have always tried to give a quality wrestling experience without keeping teams there any later than they need to as many have very long bus rides home on Saturday night.

In the past we have started wrestling at 8:15am.  This year we may not be able to start wrestling until 9am.

As far as using the small gym for two mats, that has been discussed at length multiple years with our tournament committee, coaches, and officials but never implemented due to difficulties in communication and other issues.  Basically the problems created outweighed the benefits

So because you feel yours is a great tournament none of your suggestions apply to you.....just to everyone elses tournaments? And thats going to fix wrestling?

[Stripes]

Doc, do not change the format for the Marty Loy. I know that the jv kids who experience a full gym for the first time think it is awesome. The number of mats and organized chaos also prepares them for varsity tournaments. They also buy into winning for the team. The teams that go there know what it is like and are making a choice that the event is what their team needs. The event is awesome for all involved.