D2 145

[double dog]

     I did watch this match on the live feed and was surprised at the call.  Not sure what the ref thought he saw. My personal opinion is that both of these wrestlers were working their butt off.  If it was a fleeing the mat call that was pretty lame.  Would really like to have a group three refs and replay available so that the kids who put in the work all year get the most accurate calls possible. As long as I'm dreaming, how about a super sectional for each division and send top sixteen to state where the bracket would be combined into one division. Make it a week long event as two and a half days isn't enough wrestling for me to watch and I get really depressed when wrestling is over and I have to listen to basketball (NOT)! Congrats to the Southern Door wrestler. He was a "Beast" all weekend and earned the win!!

[imnofish]

     I did watch this match on the live feed and was surprised at the call.  Not sure what the ref thought he saw. My personal opinion is that both of these wrestlers were working their butt off.  If it was a fleeing the mat call that was pretty lame.  Would really like to have a group three refs and replay available so that the kids who put in the work all year get the most accurate calls possible. As long as I'm dreaming, how about a super sectional for each division and send top sixteen to state where the bracket would be combined into one division. Make it a week long event as two and a half days isn't enough wrestling for me to watch and I get really depressed when wrestling is over and I have to listen to basketball (NOT)! Congrats to the Southern Door wrestler. He was a "Beast" all weekend and earned the win!!

Sounds like fun, but there is no way the WIAA will support changes that take kids out of the classroom for an entire week. 

[ChargerDad]

I watched both the D2 145 and 160 matches where there were controversial calls.. I'm not a rules expert like many of you on here, but that isn't going to stop me from saying that those two calls were both unfortunate mistakes.  At 145, I couldn't see fleeing or stalling.  My opinions is that call needs to be reserved for cases where it's clear that it's stalling, and that it's potentially impacting the outcome of the match.  In this case I think it was crazy to call stalling.  Nobody around the area I wa sitting could believe the call.  In the 160 match, awarding 1 was inappropriate..  I don't believe you could give an escape.. It was either a reversal, or not, but not an escape, and I think it was a reversal.  Awarding the 1 was the referees trying to put it back on the kids, when in my opinion the kids had already decided it..  Covering up one mistake with a second.  With multiple officials at matside, why can't they gather together and get it right??  I hate seeing these state title matches decided under a cloud of officiating controversy.  It's not fair to either kid.

[imnofish]

I watched both the D2 145 and 160 matches where there were controversial calls.. I'm not a rules expert like many of you on here, but that isn't going to stop me from saying that those two calls were both unfortunate mistakes.  At 145, I couldn't see fleeing or stalling.  My opinions is that call needs to be reserved for cases where it's clear that it's stalling, and that it's potentially impacting the outcome of the match.  In this case I think it was crazy to call stalling.  Nobody around the area I wa sitting could believe the call.  In the 160 match, awarding 1 was inappropriate..  I don't believe you could give an escape.. It was either a reversal, or not, but not an escape, and I think it was a reversal.  Awarding the 1 was the referees trying to put it back on the kids, when in my opinion the kids had already decided it..  Covering up one mistake with a second.  With multiple officials at matside, why can't they gather together and get it right??  I hate seeing these state title matches decided under a cloud of officiating controversy.  It's not fair to either kid.

Good analysis and commentary.  I watched online and agree with your assessment of the 145 situation, pending the opportunity to carefully scrutinize the video more carefully.  At 160, the trick was monitoring the official match clock and determining the wrestlers' status at the moment it ran down.  While I could not do that with the same accuracy as the match officials, I doubted that the bottom wrestler had cleared his hips from underneath, in time to gain control.  I'm looking forward to the opportunity to STUDY this one on video, as well.  In real time, views and perceptions can sometimes be very inconsistent with video evidence.  I am reminded of all of the football, basketball, and hockey videos that have revealed a surprising reality, after the fact.  Of course, high school refs don't have the option to check video, so they have to do the best they can in real time.  Sucks to be them, sometimes...   

[ChargerDad]

I watched both the D2 145 and 160 matches where there were controversial calls.. I'm not a rules expert like many of you on here, but that isn't going to stop me from saying that those two calls were both unfortunate mistakes.  At 145, I couldn't see fleeing or stalling.  My opinions is that call needs to be reserved for cases where it's clear that it's stalling, and that it's potentially impacting the outcome of the match.  In this case I think it was crazy to call stalling.  Nobody around the area I wa sitting could believe the call.  In the 160 match, awarding 1 was inappropriate..  I don't believe you could give an escape.. It was either a reversal, or not, but not an escape, and I think it was a reversal.  Awarding the 1 was the referees trying to put it back on the kids, when in my opinion the kids had already decided it..  Covering up one mistake with a second.  With multiple officials at matside, why can't they gather together and get it right??  I hate seeing these state title matches decided under a cloud of officiating controversy.  It's not fair to either kid.

Good analysis and commentary.  I watched online and agree with your assessment of the 145 situation, pending the opportunity to carefully scrutinize the video more carefully.  At 160, the trick was monitoring the official match clock and determining the wrestlers' status at the moment it ran down.  While I could not do that with the same accuracy as the match officials, I doubted that the bottom wrestler had cleared his hips from underneath, in time to gain control.  I'm looking forward to the opportunity to STUDY this one on video, as well.  In real time, views and perceptions can sometimes be very inconsistent with video evidence.  I am reminded of all of the football, basketball, and hockey videos that have revealed a surprising reality, after the fact.  Of course, high school refs don't have the option to check video, so they have to do the best they can in real time.  Sucks to be them, sometimes...   

Yea, video may change my mind too..  I was up a ways, and still on a but of a high from the 152 match to watch with complete focus!  From where I was, it was a tough call on the reversal or not, but definitely not an escape.  Looking forward to more commentary on this once everyone can review the video!

[npope]

Personally, in a situation like what is being described in the 160 finals, I like the King Solomon approach; if the answer isn't crystal clear, compromise and let them go at it a little while longer so that their wrestling can decide the issue cleanly.

[ramjet]

I watched both the D2 145 and 160 matches where there were controversial calls.. I'm not a rules expert like many of you on here, but that isn't going to stop me from saying that those two calls were both unfortunate mistakes.  At 145, I couldn't see fleeing or stalling.  My opinions is that call needs to be reserved for cases where it's clear that it's stalling, and that it's potentially impacting the outcome of the match.  In this case I think it was crazy to call stalling.  Nobody around the area I wa sitting could believe the call.  In the 160 match, awarding 1 was inappropriate..  I don't believe you could give an escape.. It was either a reversal, or not, but not an escape, and I think it was a reversal.  Awarding the 1 was the referees trying to put it back on the kids, when in my opinion the kids had already decided it..  Covering up one mistake with a second.  With multiple officials at matside, why can't they gather together and get it right??  I hate seeing these state title matches decided under a cloud of officiating controversy.  It's not fair to either kid.

Well said I only saw the 145 match so that's the only one I can speak too but one thing for sure if there would have no call like there should have been we would not be talking about it all, except what a great match it was......and it was.

[mat time]

Personally, in a situation like what is being described in the 160 finals, I like the King Solomon approach; if the answer isn't crystal clear, compromise and let them go at it a little while longer so that their wrestling can decide the issue cleanly.

+1
The problem is even live video is slower than live action. The ref didn't have the use of slow motion or replay and both instances in the 160 match were hair splitting. I do want to watch the d2 145 match to see what happened there.
Overall I thought the reffing was top notch. Awesome job guys.

[thequad]

I could not see clear enough to make a call on Krueger, but I've said before he likes the edge of the mat. Maybe this referee knew that?

[Quack]

In the 160 match, I didn't like that the ref made a call, then because a coach jumped him he decided to put the match into over time, and change his call.

[UTB]

Tried to watch D2 145 Final on Fox; it appears to me it's the only final missing.  Can anyone help?

[aarons23]

In the 160 match, I didn't like that the ref made a call, then because a coach jumped him he decided to put the match into over time, and change his call.

I believe what you saw was the other ref come from the chair.

[Quack]

In the 160 match, I didn't like that the ref made a call, then because a coach jumped him he decided to put the match into over time, and change his call.

I believe what you saw was the other ref come from the chair.

No, I seen the coach question the ref, then the ref go over to the table ref. He had already made the call, then changed it. The chair ref should not be inputting on any calls unless asked.

[aarons23]

In the 160 match, I didn't like that the ref made a call, then because a coach jumped him he decided to put the match into over time, and change his call.

I believe what you saw was the other ref come from the chair.

No, I seen the coach question the ref, then the ref go over to the table ref. He had already made the call, then changed it. The chair ref should not be inputting on any calls unless asked.

Pretty sure I saw the ref look at the chair ref asking if the time had expired.  I think there is no clear right answer and the refs made the best possible decision.  It's ok for a ref to make a call and then admit it was the wrong call.  It truly was left in the wrestlers hands.  Great match boys.

[woody53]

Quack is right on the first part as I was behind the table. But the Off Mat Official does have the ability to talk to the On Mat Official. The Off Mat Official did not make the call. The On Mat Official did after consultation. We are not allowed video review. This is what we have. The person is not the same as the Table Officials.