When is a team too small?

[jaguarwrestler]

I am all for 8th grade inclusion... seems to work well in MN their top 10 teams in the state would crush our top 10 teams in our state. It pains me to say that but it is true.

eliminating weights... hmmm, I will use the same argument I always use.... it would hurt about 25% of teams, help about 25% and do nothing to help 50%

Example:
Team A - fills out 14 weights
Team B - fills out 12 weights missing 132 and 160
Team C - fills out 7 weights 152 and up

say we eliminate a weight at the top and bottom by combining 2 weights.... say 106 and 113 becomes 111 and 195 and 220 becomes 205 so now you have your 12 weights... this does not benefit any team I listed above, if A & B dual they went from 12 matches down to 10 but still have 2 FF's and Team C went down to 6 wrestlers and still FF 6 matches

see the problem is.... wait for it... not all schools have the same weights missing, in fact they all have different weights missing... so picking 2 random weights to eliminate will hurt some teams that already are short, will not help those with 5-9 wrestlers and will hurt the top teams that have put in the blood, sweat and tears to build a program from the ground up.

Ashwaubenon had a great kids program, that fell apart and their HS team has suffered because of it... they have had great softball teams in the past, because they built a great program from youth on up.

I just don't think we can help the problem by eliminating weights. I would rather see schools co-op, expand the state team tourney or at least expand team sectional, triple duals on Thursday nights during season... and how about duals before college matches... why can't we get teams like Verona, deforest, sun prairie, Stoughton and so on to dual before a Badger meet? Or do the same in other cities like La Crosse, Stevens Point, Oshkosh and so on by starting a college met with a HS meet... puts more butts in the seats for both.

[DarkKnight]

The WWCA has proposed just that, a JV state tournament.

Thanks for that breakdown and that synopsis. I am/was in the same place as a coach. It's not always as simple as recruiting.

that is quite awesome... I hope it gets through... something for excellent jv wrestlers to look forward to.

[Handles II]

This is something much better attacked at a conference level. No way will Dave Anderson approve a Jv state wrestling tournament. The WWCA can ask for it until the cows come home but it won't happen.

[chuckref]

This is something much better attacked at a conference level. No way will Dave Anderson approve a Jv state wrestling tournament. The WWCA can ask for it until the cows come home but it won't happen.

And it shouldn't happen at the WIAA level.  They don't have a JV playoff system for any other sports so why should wrestling get one?  Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great idea and I hope it happens but we are being unrealistic if we ask the WIAA to sanction this.

Chuck

[jaguarwrestler]

instead of having a JV state tournament

the week of regionals
have a super sectional
have 16 teams
let the teams bring up to 2 wrestlers per weight so your working with a 32 man bracket, over 2 days
coaches must choose one at each weight that will earn team points.... but all wrestlers you bring have a chance to go to state
Wrestlebacks to 2nd, 3rd... placement matches to 10th for team points.
Take top 2 teams from super sectional to team state
Top 3 at each weight into a 24 man bracket at state with 1st place from super sectional at each weight getting a first round bye at state
Have a double elimination at state with wrestlebacks for 3rd.

everything I just listed is not only possible but would add a lot to the sport in my opinion.

[Handles II]

This is something much better attacked at a conference level. No way will Dave Anderson approve a Jv state wrestling tournament. The WWCA can ask for it until the cows come home but it won't happen.

And it shouldn't happen at the WIAA level.  They don't have a JV playoff system for any other sports so why should wrestling get one?  Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great idea and I hope it happens but we are being unrealistic if we ask the WIAA to sanction this.

Chuck

Agreed. Thus I believe it is a waste of time for the WWCA to even bring it up (if that is their plan) to the WIAA. No reason why there couldn't be a bunch of "conference" or "region" JV tournaments even if they aren't officially sponsored by that entity.  Coaches, fans, parents that want this type of tournament should start it up and get it going. Plan it for next year.

[ramjet]

Our conference does it for Jr High

[cooch]

JV "state" will never happen with the WIAA.  They would have to host a JV state for all sports then.

There were a couple of end of the year JV tournaments that called themselves JV State.

It is tough and frustrating when you travel to a school and wrestle less than half of the intended matches.  And Trust Me, knowing that coaching staff I would bet that BP had "practice" either that night or morning to make up for the lack of matches.

I would hate to see WIAA step in and say if you do not have enough wrestlers to mathematically win a dual you have to forfeit to save money on travel.  Tournaments won't matter as much unless they are dual format.

They do have that rule in baseball / softball.  Think its you can start with eight players but, not with seven or less, the team forfeits at that point.    

   

[Quack]

I am all for 8th grade inclusion... seems to work well in MN their top 10 teams in the state would crush our top 10 teams in our state. It pains me to say that but it is true.

eliminating weights... hmmm, I will use the same argument I always use.... it would hurt about 25% of teams, help about 25% and do nothing to help 50%

Example:
Team A - fills out 14 weights
Team B - fills out 12 weights missing 132 and 160
Team C - fills out 7 weights 152 and up

say we eliminate a weight at the top and bottom by combining 2 weights.... say 106 and 113 becomes 111 and 195 and 220 becomes 205 so now you have your 12 weights... this does not benefit any team I listed above, if A & B dual they went from 12 matches down to 10 but still have 2 FF's and Team C went down to 6 wrestlers and still FF 6 matches

see the problem is.... wait for it... not all schools have the same weights missing, in fact they all have different weights missing... so picking 2 random weights to eliminate will hurt some teams that already are short, will not help those with 5-9 wrestlers and will hurt the top teams that have put in the blood, sweat and tears to build a program from the ground up.

Ashwaubenon had a great kids program, that fell apart and their HS team has suffered because of it... they have had great softball teams in the past, because they built a great program from youth on up.

I just don't think we can help the problem by eliminating weights. I would rather see schools co-op, expand the state team tourney or at least expand team sectional, triple duals on Thursday nights during season... and how about duals before college matches... why can't we get teams like Verona, deforest, sun prairie, Stoughton and so on to dual before a Badger meet? Or do the same in other cities like La Crosse, Stevens Point, Oshkosh and so on by starting a college met with a HS meet... puts more butts in the seats for both.

How would it help our team that has every weight up to 182 except 160? With 2 at 106, 2 at 126, 2 at 138 and 2 at 145. Soon we won't have a kid above 170. as two of the kids drop.

[neutral]

WI Wrestling Challenge Series 2015 ...

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http://wiwrestling.info/index.php?topic=40526.0