Will folkstyie ever figure it out?

[Jimmy]

I went to ott this past weekend. Absolutely phenomenal . I like folkstyie and am not saying it needs a major overhaul . Just some tweaks . If you add much faster stalemates , push outs , and educate refs on how to get the refs to use passivity or stalling calls to push the action it would be some simple yet huge strides for folkstyie . When Greco heavies are racking up 15 points combined they are doing something right!

[Oldtimer]

I was also there and feel it was phenomenal.  So many good things happening.  I don't really understand how the passivity rule works though.  I get if you are called for passivity what happens but I don't understand what causes a ref to call it.  Some matches passivity was called in the first 30 seconds on one wrestler when both were fighting for position.  Some passivity calls on the one guy that was making shot attempts.  It didn't make sense to me.

I did think of a way to take the ref out of the equation though.  There are 6 minutes in the match.  How about at the start of the match one wrestler is on the clock to score in 1 minute or gives up a point?  Next minute the other guy is on the clock.  Then alternate each minute.  If you score the clock is off for the rest of that minute.

I think that would remove the subjective calls by refs of who is passive. 

I know with my tremendous influence in the world wrestling community they'll get right on that change.

[jaguarwrestler]

I went to ott this past weekend. Absolutely phenomenal . I like folkstyie and am not saying it needs a major overhaul . Just some tweaks . If you add much faster stalemates , push outs , and educate refs on how to get the refs to use passivity or stalling calls to push the action it would be some simple yet huge strides for folkstyie . When Greco heavies are racking up 15 points combined they are doing something right!

not sure how I feel about a push out rule... I wouldn't mind seeing something like a 20 seconds ride and if you can't turn the other wrestler you go back to both up without an escape points.... wrestler would still be able to earn an escape within the 20 seconds and this time level could be extended depending on the action... but if they are just on the mat with no advancement I would like to see something done, especially due to the fact that we don't have riding points in HS. I'm not sure I like the shot clock, one guy is being punished for lack of action but then the other guy can stall for 30 seconds to make sure they are not scored on. Many times the last 30 seconds of the match the winning wrestler seemed to be allowed to run away. I don't think folkstyle has a scoring problem, many matches last weekend also ended 3-2, 3-3, 4-4, 4-2... or whatever. I absolutely hate all the criteria scenario wins... even some of the wrestlers didn't know if they won or lost, as well as all the challenges and breaks between periods... too many stops in the action. Both have positive and negatives.

[Jimmy]

The way it was explained to me. Passivity is about lack of scoring . Looking busy to look busy is not good enough, you must look busy to score. In matches involving guys like t ram they will alternate passivity calls trying to force action

[DocWrestling]

I am guessing they invented the shot clock to force action.  While I did not watch a ton of matches I never once saw a guy score when the shot clock was on him.  They just gave up the point.

In my opinion the refs stopped action too quickly at times just to put them back neutral and took away the scrambles.

[GradeTough]

I watched a ton of matches and didn't understand the rulings for passivity by the refs. The ruling was too subjective and not consistent between matches. Especially when you witness whistles being blown 30 seconds into a match.

Based on the matches I saw, the refs don't provide a lot of time for a top wrestler to turn a bottom wrestler unless they see a true attempt is made to turn the wrestler. They won't allow a top wrestler to rest on the bottom wrestler. Better to put them back on their feet so both are active.

All styles are exciting. It is fun to see when in Freestyle when a take-down is made and a guy immediately gut wrenches a guy for some quick points. The tide can change in an instance so the wrestler down is never truly out. Pico's comeback from literally being tech'd is proof of that.

[Jimmy]

Like you said gradetough, a true attempt to turn.same thing on their feet wrestlers can't stand there ear to ear, or stand there with wrist control and not do something with it. We have been lulled to sleep the last thirty with defensive low scorin minimal action wrestling. Is it perfect no but imo wrestling in free style and Greco are really headed in the right direction

[TomM]

I am guessing they invented the shot clock to force action.  While I did not watch a ton of matches I never once saw a guy score when the shot clock was on him.  They just gave up the point.

In my opinion the refs stopped action too quickly at times just to put them back neutral and took away the scrambles.

My sentiments exactly. Feel the same way.

[Oldtimer]

The last thing we need is more ref involvement.  So many stops in action and subjective passivity calls.  Also the push-out rule doesn't always make sense to me.  I thought if a wrestler steps out of bounds, 1 point for the other guy.  So many times that did not happen.  I also hate the 2 quick easy points you get for exposing your opponents back even though your opponent is taking you down.  That's why Frank Molinaro is going to the Olympics and Pico is not.

Push out requires the entire foot to be out.  A lot of times I saw partial foot out.  I think they get it right mostly and if question the brick is thrown. The two points is just a rule in freestyle.  You need to learn to score using the rules and Molinaro did just that.

[ChargerDad]

I am guessing they invented the shot clock to force action.  While I did not watch a ton of matches I never once saw a guy score when the shot clock was on him.  They just gave up the point.

In my opinion the refs stopped action too quickly at times just to put them back neutral and took away the scrambles.

Wasn't the first Ramos/Dennis match 2-1 ALL on passivity points??  The penalty for passivity isn't sufficient to actually make the wrestlers wrestle..  Maybe putting one down after first warning for passivity would make them wrestle??  The fear of getting laced and TF'd might make them wrestle???

[bulldog]

I am guessing they invented the shot clock to force action.  While I did not watch a ton of matches I never once saw a guy score when the shot clock was on him.  They just gave up the point.

In my opinion the refs stopped action too quickly at times just to put them back neutral and took away the scrambles.

Wasn't the first Ramos/Dennis match 2-1 ALL on passivity points??  The penalty for passivity isn't sufficient to actually make the wrestlers wrestle..  Maybe putting one down after first warning for passivity would make them wrestle??  The fear of getting laced and TF'd might make them wrestle???

I think they added the shot clock because it sounds cooler then "give him your leg" (old rules).

[Handles II]

I thought (watching on tv) and at iowa city (last trials) that the wrestling was really cool. I attended with some more casual fans who found it extremely boring vs. folkstyle. I agree that some changes could benefit folkstyle. For HS going to the college out-of-bounds rules could keep the action going. For college, much quicker stalling calls.

So who do you cater to, the hardcore fan that can see the intricacies of a 2-on-1, or the casual or neutral fan, kid, or spectator? What is going to get, and most importantly keep more kids in the sport?

 

[jaguarwrestler]

If in folkstyle they made every stalemate a restart on the feet I would be cool with that. So basically of they are on the mat, no one is doing anything productive, start them back on their feet. I would be for the college rule of stalling calls made when going out of bounds. I would also be for the 4 point nf in HS. I think all of these would increase action and scoring without any real massive change to the sport. At the end of the day freestyle is all about who is best on their feet because it is mostly about takedowns. Sure here and there someone gets back points from a tilt, gut or leg lace but for the most part the math is 5 minutes of being on their feet. You don't need to be able to get out, you don't need to be able to turn someone... as long as you have good defense in the neutral position and have a number of solid takedowns in your arsenal you can go far. Being able to turn someone id helpful but not needed. That is why I still like folkstyle, many of the best guys in college are good from all 3 positions.

[Oldtimer]

I am guessing they invented the shot clock to force action.  While I did not watch a ton of matches I never once saw a guy score when the shot clock was on him.  They just gave up the point.

In my opinion the refs stopped action too quickly at times just to put them back neutral and took away the scrambles.

Wasn't the first Ramos/Dennis match 2-1 ALL on passivity points??  The penalty for passivity isn't sufficient to actually make the wrestlers wrestle..  Maybe putting one down after first warning for passivity would make them wrestle??  The fear of getting laced and TF'd might make them wrestle???

From my observation I wouldn't consider what these men are doing to try and get position "not wrestling".  Who thinks it's wise to take a shot without a proper setup?  Each guy is countering setups.  Rarely is there just no action.  Keep in mind if you take a bad shot in freestyle a crotch lift may cost you 2 points and you were the initiator of the move.

I just think the passivity call should go away.  I think Dake slept through most of his weekend by just staying in his stance.  If passivity is a real thing he should have been called numerous times.  It's just too subjective.

[Oldtimer]

I am guessing they invented the shot clock to force action.  While I did not watch a ton of matches I never once saw a guy score when the shot clock was on him.  They just gave up the point.

In my opinion the refs stopped action too quickly at times just to put them back neutral and took away the scrambles.

The person on the clock scored several times throughout the weekend but definitely not the majority of the time