Right decision?
Wouldn't he get more out of learning in a college wrestling room for a year, get stronger, more knowledge? Its not like its going to win them a National championship even if he wins the whole thing.
But he personally is in the mix for his own title.
I think it is good that he is not redshirting. He is ready to compete for a title now. There are only 9.9 scholarships, and I would assume he is getting close to a full scholarship. If he can compete for a title now, why have the scholarship doing nothing?
I think there are 5 to 10 kids a year that fall into this category. Would be great if UW could get one at some point.
The bigger question I think would be why bring in someone like Downey with his history? I think brands was feeling a little pressure, considering the high expectations at Iowa. If Lee redshirted and they did not bring in Downey, a 6th to 10h place finish would have been pretty likely.
Great point jw, a body can only handle so many matches. Who knows how many lee has already had.He has had some health issues already and battling Gilman,Clark ,.McDonough ,Tom and terry on a daily basis is not gonna extend his career.
It may have to do with the fact that he may likely take an Olympic redshirt for 2020 anyways.
Hmmm, I thought I read somewhere that wrestlers body's peak at age 28. How old is Burroughs and Taylor already? You think they are over the hill already?
A males physical peak may indeed be 28 .with the amount of matches wrestled in a yr. now days I believe the physical wear and tare has brought a wrestlers peak down from that
Quote from: Jimmy on January 07, 2018, 06:49:47 PM
A males physical peak may indeed be 28 .with the amount of matches wrestled in a yr. now days I believe the physical wear and tare has brought a wrestlers peak down from that
Great point. Lots of wear and tear...
Quote from: fightfightfight on January 07, 2018, 12:36:58 PM
It may have to do with the fact that he may likely take an Olympic redshirt for 2020 anyways.
Curious why you think that would matter? He can take both a regular RS and an Olympic RS if he wanted to.
With his injury history it is a smart choice not to take it. If he blows out his knee again part way through a season then he has his redshirt available.
Quote from: wrastle63 on January 08, 2018, 09:49:37 AM
With his injury history it is a smart choice not to take it. If he blows out his knee again part way through a season then he has his redshirt available.
Wouldn't that fall under the Medical redshirt area?
The only reason a bluechip recruit gets his redshirt status pulled is because his coach thinks he can win a national championship. There is no grey area on this. In Spencer Lee's case he will be a true contender at the NCAA's, just as the Penn State coaches thought Mark Hall was going to be last year.
In the last 5 years we have started to see some "Once in a lifetime type wrestlers" come out of the US. Snyder, Hall, Lee, and Fix are just the beginning. When coaches are able to land these types of wrestlers, and only have a average option at best in that spot, they will call them up.
You make hay when the sun shines. No reason to red shirt when you can compete. You never know what will happen. Dustin Schlatter won it as a freshman and did not do as well after that. There sre other examples.
Quote from: Razor Ramon on January 09, 2018, 08:58:32 AM
The only reason a bluechip recruit gets his redshirt status pulled is because his coach thinks he can win a national championship. There is no grey area on this. In Spencer Lee's case he will be a true contender at the NCAA's, just as the Penn State coaches thought Mark Hall was going to be last year.
In the last 5 years we have started to see some "Once in a lifetime type wrestlers" come out of the US. Snyder, Hall, Lee, and Fix are just the beginning. When coaches are able to land these types of wrestlers, and only have a average option at best in that spot, they will call them up.
I'll be nice about this, Razor. No grey area? I'd beg to differ. Ooooodles of examples exist of pulling the RS to help the team out. No chance of a national title, the team had an injury and needed the RS to step up. Other reasons exist beyond the "you got a shot to win the big one, kid."
We have seen some amazing athletes do just as you said. Superstars. Many other redshirts get pulled for reasons other than the hopes, and realistic potential of winning, a national championship.
Reminds me of the student who protects their A's to the point of risking missing out on growth because the grades are more important than the growth. Seems to be a philosophical position that, sooner or later, bites the believer in the tail.
Quote from: bigG on January 09, 2018, 10:14:24 AM
Quote from: Razor Ramon on January 09, 2018, 08:58:32 AM
The only reason a bluechip recruit gets his redshirt status pulled is because his coach thinks he can win a national championship. There is no grey area on this. In Spencer Lee's case he will be a true contender at the NCAA's, just as the Penn State coaches thought Mark Hall was going to be last year.
In the last 5 years we have started to see some "Once in a lifetime type wrestlers" come out of the US. Snyder, Hall, Lee, and Fix are just the beginning. When coaches are able to land these types of wrestlers, and only have a average option at best in that spot, they will call them up.
I'll be nice about this, Razor. No grey area? I'd beg to differ. Ooooodles of examples exist of pulling the RS to help the team out. No chance of a national title, the team had an injury and needed the RS to step up. Other reasons exist beyond the "you got a shot to win the big one, kid."
We have seen some amazing athletes do just as you said. Superstars. Many other redshirts get pulled for reasons other than the hopes, and realistic potential of winning, a national championship.
Reminds me of the student who protects their A's to the point of risking missing out on growth because the grades are more important than the growth. Seems to be a philosophical position that, sooner or later, bites the believer in the tail.
Did Barry pull Jimenez's red-shirt his freshman year thinking national title?
Quote from: Barou on January 09, 2018, 12:16:01 PM
Quote from: bigG on January 09, 2018, 10:14:24 AM
Quote from: Razor Ramon on January 09, 2018, 08:58:32 AM
The only reason a bluechip recruit gets his redshirt status pulled is because his coach thinks he can win a national championship. There is no grey area on this. In Spencer Lee's case he will be a true contender at the NCAA's, just as the Penn State coaches thought Mark Hall was going to be last year.
In the last 5 years we have started to see some "Once in a lifetime type wrestlers" come out of the US. Snyder, Hall, Lee, and Fix are just the beginning. When coaches are able to land these types of wrestlers, and only have a average option at best in that spot, they will call them up.
I'll be nice about this, Razor. No grey area? I'd beg to differ. Ooooodles of examples exist of pulling the RS to help the team out. No chance of a national title, the team had an injury and needed the RS to step up. Other reasons exist beyond the "you got a shot to win the big one, kid."
We have seen some amazing athletes do just as you said. Superstars. Many other redshirts get pulled for reasons other than the hopes, and realistic potential of winning, a national championship.
Reminds me of the student who protects their A's to the point of risking missing out on growth because the grades are more important than the growth. Seems to be a philosophical position that, sooner or later, bites the believer in the tail.
Did Barry pull Jimenez's red-shirt his freshman year thinking national title?
Perfect example. They pulled it because it would make the team better and it did.
Quote from: wrastle63 on January 09, 2018, 12:35:53 PM
Quote from: Barou on January 09, 2018, 12:16:01 PM
Quote from: bigG on January 09, 2018, 10:14:24 AM
Quote from: Razor Ramon on January 09, 2018, 08:58:32 AM
The only reason a bluechip recruit gets his redshirt status pulled is because his coach thinks he can win a national championship. There is no grey area on this. In Spencer Lee's case he will be a true contender at the NCAA's, just as the Penn State coaches thought Mark Hall was going to be last year.
In the last 5 years we have started to see some "Once in a lifetime type wrestlers" come out of the US. Snyder, Hall, Lee, and Fix are just the beginning. When coaches are able to land these types of wrestlers, and only have a average option at best in that spot, they will call them up.
I'll be nice about this, Razor. No grey area? I'd beg to differ. Ooooodles of examples exist of pulling the RS to help the team out. No chance of a national title, the team had an injury and needed the RS to step up. Other reasons exist beyond the "you got a shot to win the big one, kid."
We have seen some amazing athletes do just as you said. Superstars. Many other redshirts get pulled for reasons other than the hopes, and realistic potential of winning, a national championship.
Reminds me of the student who protects their A's to the point of risking missing out on growth because the grades are more important than the growth. Seems to be a philosophical position that, sooner or later, bites the believer in the tail.
Did Barry pull Jimenez's red-shirt his freshman year thinking national title?
Perfect example. They pulled it because it would make the team better and it did.
Not for nationals.
Quote from: Barou on January 09, 2018, 01:07:24 PM
Quote from: wrastle63 on January 09, 2018, 12:35:53 PM
Quote from: Barou on January 09, 2018, 12:16:01 PM
Quote from: bigG on January 09, 2018, 10:14:24 AM
Quote from: Razor Ramon on January 09, 2018, 08:58:32 AM
The only reason a bluechip recruit gets his redshirt status pulled is because his coach thinks he can win a national championship. There is no grey area on this. In Spencer Lee's case he will be a true contender at the NCAA's, just as the Penn State coaches thought Mark Hall was going to be last year.
In the last 5 years we have started to see some "Once in a lifetime type wrestlers" come out of the US. Snyder, Hall, Lee, and Fix are just the beginning. When coaches are able to land these types of wrestlers, and only have a average option at best in that spot, they will call them up.
I'll be nice about this, Razor. No grey area? I'd beg to differ. Ooooodles of examples exist of pulling the RS to help the team out. No chance of a national title, the team had an injury and needed the RS to step up. Other reasons exist beyond the "you got a shot to win the big one, kid."
We have seen some amazing athletes do just as you said. Superstars. Many other redshirts get pulled for reasons other than the hopes, and realistic potential of winning, a national championship.
Reminds me of the student who protects their A's to the point of risking missing out on growth because the grades are more important than the growth. Seems to be a philosophical position that, sooner or later, bites the believer in the tail.
Did Barry pull Jimenez's red-shirt his freshman year thinking national title?
Perfect example. They pulled it because it would make the team better and it did.
Not for nationals.
Yea he did really bad....he lost to Tomasello 7-2 and to Lambert 4-0. Tomasello won the bracket and Lambert took 6th.
Every team/coach does it, though.
JJ did kind of hurt us in the end. Redshirt stripping has upsides (Snyder and Hall) and downsides. Now, if the guys is good enough, you have to think NCAAs, Olys and worlds. Nice problem.
Quote from: wrastle63 on January 09, 2018, 01:44:46 PM
Quote from: Barou on January 09, 2018, 01:07:24 PM
Quote from: wrastle63 on January 09, 2018, 12:35:53 PM
Quote from: Barou on January 09, 2018, 12:16:01 PM
Quote from: bigG on January 09, 2018, 10:14:24 AM
Quote from: Razor Ramon on January 09, 2018, 08:58:32 AM
The only reason a bluechip recruit gets his redshirt status pulled is because his coach thinks he can win a national championship. There is no grey area on this. In Spencer Lee's case he will be a true contender at the NCAA's, just as the Penn State coaches thought Mark Hall was going to be last year.
In the last 5 years we have started to see some "Once in a lifetime type wrestlers" come out of the US. Snyder, Hall, Lee, and Fix are just the beginning. When coaches are able to land these types of wrestlers, and only have a average option at best in that spot, they will call them up.
I'll be nice about this, Razor. No grey area? I'd beg to differ. Ooooodles of examples exist of pulling the RS to help the team out. No chance of a national title, the team had an injury and needed the RS to step up. Other reasons exist beyond the "you got a shot to win the big one, kid."
We have seen some amazing athletes do just as you said. Superstars. Many other redshirts get pulled for reasons other than the hopes, and realistic potential of winning, a national championship.
Reminds me of the student who protects their A's to the point of risking missing out on growth because the grades are more important than the growth. Seems to be a philosophical position that, sooner or later, bites the believer in the tail.
Did Barry pull Jimenez's red-shirt his freshman year thinking national title?
Perfect example. They pulled it because it would make the team better and it did.
Not for nationals.
Yea he did really bad....he lost to Tomasello 7-2 and to Lambert 4-0. Tomasello won the bracket and Lambert took 6th.
Seriously, that's what you got out of that? Who said he did "really bad" at the Big Ten tournament? Some might think pulling a RS off a true Freshman would make sense if you had a sure fire qualifier. Do you think pulling JJ's RS late in the season was a good idea? He finished 5 - 9.
I get the logic; but (with the bennie of hindshit) think it turned out not-as-good.
Losing to Tomasello 7-2 almost sounds apologetic. Tomasello was/is many miles ahead of JJ.
JJ didn't do really bad. Didn't really kick tail, either. Kind of tepid... for a threat to win his weight in the NCAAs.
Quote from: bigG on January 09, 2018, 10:14:24 AM
Quote from: Razor Ramon on January 09, 2018, 08:58:32 AM
The only reason a bluechip recruit gets his redshirt status pulled is because his coach thinks he can win a national championship. There is no grey area on this. In Spencer Lee's case he will be a true contender at the NCAA's, just as the Penn State coaches thought Mark Hall was going to be last year.
In the last 5 years we have started to see some "Once in a lifetime type wrestlers" come out of the US. Snyder, Hall, Lee, and Fix are just the beginning. When coaches are able to land these types of wrestlers, and only have a average option at best in that spot, they will call them up.
I'll be nice about this, Razor. No grey area? I'd beg to differ. Ooooodles of examples exist of pulling the RS to help the team out. No chance of a national title, the team had an injury and needed the RS to step up. Other reasons exist beyond the "you got a shot to win the big one, kid."
We have seen some amazing athletes do just as you said. Superstars. Many other redshirts get pulled for reasons other than the hopes, and realistic potential of winning, a national championship.
Reminds me of the student who protects their A's to the point of risking missing out on growth because the grades are more important than the growth. Seems to be a philosophical position that, sooner or later, bites the believer in the tail.
I'll be even nicer, bigG. I was referring to BLUECHIPS that get their RS pulled. You are referring to the countless number of mid-level wrestlers that get put in the lineup. Not even close to the same thing. Stay on topic.
Johnny Jimenez' RS should never have been pulled.
Jimenez was never going to be an All American (at least not at Wisconsin).
In hindsight, pulling the redshirt was not the best decision.
Quote from: Ghetto on January 09, 2018, 09:30:24 PM
Johnny Jimenez' RS should never have been pulled.
Why? To give him the 5th year so he can go from a low end qualifier in year 4 to an AA candidate in his last year? How many guys do that? Does he want to be in school for 5 years?
If he graduates from the UW in 4 years while wrestling all 4 years that would some accomplishment in itself
Quote from: mkm13 on January 10, 2018, 10:49:41 AM
Quote from: Ghetto on January 09, 2018, 09:30:24 PM
Johnny Jimenez' RS should never have been pulled.
Why? To give him the 5th year so he can go from a low end qualifier in year 4 to an AA candidate in his last year? How many guys do that? Does he want to be in school for 5 years?
Ron Jeidy was a National Champ as a 5th Year Senior.
Jesse Witmer was a 5 th yr. sr. national champ having been second string the three yrs prior
If he doesn't win a national championship this year, many will say he should have redshirted.
Quote from: mkm13 on January 10, 2018, 10:49:41 AM
Quote from: Ghetto on January 09, 2018, 09:30:24 PM
Johnny Jimenez' RS should never have been pulled.
Why? To give him the 5th year so he can go from a low end qualifier in year 4 to an AA candidate in his last year? How many guys do that? Does he want to be in school for 5 years?
It was pulled for no good reason that I know of, at a time where he couldn't be successful in that season.
Quote from: Razor Ramon on January 09, 2018, 03:50:22 PM
Quote from: bigG on January 09, 2018, 10:14:24 AM
Quote from: Razor Ramon on January 09, 2018, 08:58:32 AM
The only reason a bluechip recruit gets his redshirt status pulled is because his coach thinks he can win a national championship. There is no grey area on this. In Spencer Lee's case he will be a true contender at the NCAA's, just as the Penn State coaches thought Mark Hall was going to be last year.
In the last 5 years we have started to see some "Once in a lifetime type wrestlers" come out of the US. Snyder, Hall, Lee, and Fix are just the beginning. When coaches are able to land these types of wrestlers, and only have a average option at best in that spot, they will call them up.
I'll be nice about this, Razor. No grey area? I'd beg to differ. Ooooodles of examples exist of pulling the RS to help the team out. No chance of a national title, the team had an injury and needed the RS to step up. Other reasons exist beyond the "you got a shot to win the big one, kid."
We have seen some amazing athletes do just as you said. Superstars. Many other redshirts get pulled for reasons other than the hopes, and realistic potential of winning, a national championship.
Reminds me of the student who protects their A's to the point of risking missing out on growth because the grades are more important than the growth. Seems to be a philosophical position that, sooner or later, bites the believer in the tail.
I'll be even nicer, bigG. I was referring to BLUECHIPS that get their RS pulled. You are referring to the countless number of mid-level wrestlers that get put in the lineup. Not even close to the same thing. Stay on topic.
So, what is your criteria for distinguishing between a Blue Chip and mid level? No grey area, eh?
Quote from: bigG on January 11, 2018, 08:37:49 AM
Quote from: Razor Ramon on January 09, 2018, 03:50:22 PM
Quote from: bigG on January 09, 2018, 10:14:24 AM
Quote from: Razor Ramon on January 09, 2018, 08:58:32 AM
The only reason a bluechip recruit gets his redshirt status pulled is because his coach thinks he can win a national championship. There is no grey area on this. In Spencer Lee's case he will be a true contender at the NCAA's, just as the Penn State coaches thought Mark Hall was going to be last year.
In the last 5 years we have started to see some "Once in a lifetime type wrestlers" come out of the US. Snyder, Hall, Lee, and Fix are just the beginning. When coaches are able to land these types of wrestlers, and only have a average option at best in that spot, they will call them up.
I'll be nice about this, Razor. No grey area? I'd beg to differ. Ooooodles of examples exist of pulling the RS to help the team out. No chance of a national title, the team had an injury and needed the RS to step up. Other reasons exist beyond the "you got a shot to win the big one, kid."
We have seen some amazing athletes do just as you said. Superstars. Many other redshirts get pulled for reasons other than the hopes, and realistic potential of winning, a national championship.
Reminds me of the student who protects their A's to the point of risking missing out on growth because the grades are more important than the growth. Seems to be a philosophical position that, sooner or later, bites the believer in the tail.
I'll be even nicer, bigG. I was referring to BLUECHIPS that get their RS pulled. You are referring to the countless number of mid-level wrestlers that get put in the lineup. Not even close to the same thing. Stay on topic.
So, what is your criteria for distinguishing between a Blue Chip and mid level? No grey area, eh?
bigG did you actually read what I posted? I specifically said there was no grey area when it came to pulling a redshirt because the coach thinks he can win a national title. I wasn't talking about a grey area on what separates a bluechip from a mid-level wrestler. The last time UW had a scenario to where if they could pulled the redshirt option because they believed that wrestler could win a national title was Andrew Howe.
What does distinguish a bluechip from just another wrestler is the level of commitment (scholarship) that the top programs are willing to make to that athlete at the time of recruiting. Spencer Lee, Mark Hall, and even Myles Martin were guys who were recruited by every top program, not just a couple of big name schools here and there.
Yes, I read it. Even with blue chips, there will be grey area. They've been pulled for more than just the hopes of a an NCAA champion. They get pulled to help the team, sometimes delayed in the hopes of an Oly redshirt, later.
Howe wasn't recruited by every top program. Far from it. So, you'll call a guy like that a Blue Chip because the RS was pulled? Howe became a blue chipper.
I'll just ask this because I don't know the answer; but is JJ on a full ride?
I believe when JJ committed it was said he was getting 70%.
70% of what??? That is a game recruiters like to play, be very careful of that!! 70% can mean many things
Yeah, that could be the root of some colorful salesmanship.
Iowa freshman Spencer Lee could vault Hawkeyes wrestling back into NCAA contention
https://www.landof10.com/iowa/iowa-wrestler-spencer-lee-vault-hawkeyes-back-wrestling-contention
National contention isn't happening this year. Maybe the article was a couple years to premature.
Sounds like wishful thinking, there. Still, the coaches want the best team they can field.
He just beat the defending national champion. Hard to argue that pulling his redshirt was not a good thing.
Quote from: Jimmy on January 07, 2018, 06:49:47 PM
A males physical peak may indeed be 28 .with the amount of matches wrestled in a yr. now days I believe the physical wear and tare has brought a wrestlers peak down from that
Wonder if a former collegiate wrestler would say the weight cut and match is tougher than a practice? Maybe it is a fine hair I am splitting as to have the matches you have the practices, yet, I wonder if most collegiate wrestlers wouldn't say that practices are harder on a body than that 7 minutes...
I guess it worked out. :)
Sure did. But, I'd worry about an Imar or Mongoose future a bit. 4-timer is a huge burden, if it comes to that. Still, I think we're all pretty wowed by Lee's mojo. Most of us were pretty high on the Mongoose during his frosh year, too.
Coaches have time to study and make adjustments, over 4 years of chasing the top talent. Two years ago, how many envisioned Snyder getting beaten by anyone, or repeatedly being taken into overtime? No matter how talented a wrestler is, he does not compete in a vacuum.
Yeah. I wasn't trying to imply Imar or Mongoose degraded; rather the competition came up to their level.
I wasn't implying that you were implying. ;D
Sorry to imply that you implied my supposed implication. IMPLICATOR!!!!! :)
Quote from: bigG on March 22, 2018, 08:55:31 AM
Sorry to imply that you implied my supposed implication. IMPLICATOR!!!!! :)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
What are you implying now?
Quote from: bigG on March 22, 2018, 10:20:27 AM
What are you implying now?
I'm implying that my perceived implications were every bit as non-existent as your perceived implications. :D
Whether the implications were perceived or palpably implied, your present implication I perceive as palpable but perfectly perplexing as implications perpetuate potential implicit perceptions.
Just sayin'.
I be sayin' that you be sayin' that you be lovin' you some o' dat alliteration stuff. ;)
Dass what Im sayin'!
Say whaaaat?