Wrestling State tournament- team before individual?

[DocWrestling]

Click on 2016 tournament schedule

http://www.mshsl.org/mshsl/showstate.asp?actnum=424

It is interesting that they only weigh in once for the whole tournament?  But sounds like they weigh in twice if they are in both tournaments?

Personally I don't like that weigh-in system.  It really rewards those wrestlers cutting weight. 
1) You only have to weigh in once
2) You weigh in the day prior to wrestling

[ElectricGuy]

Might be great for the fans but I can guarantee if you poll the athletes that go thru 3 intense day of competing at individual state and they are going to say that they want the week in between to let their bodies recooperate.Any body  know the format that Mn uses,ind state is 3 days and team state is 2 days,,how do they do it all in 1 weekend?

They do Team Weigh-ins on Wednesday Night. Wrestling Starts for Team at 9:00 on Thursday Morning. Semis for Team in all three divisions start at 1:00. Weigh ins for Individual Start at 4:00 on Thursday. Team Consolations at 5:00. Team Finals at 7:00. All on Thursday. Individual Wrestling starts on Friday Morning at 9:00. Semi Finals are not until Saturday Morning. Finals at 7:00 Saturday night.
Again, they run eight mats.

And the team format is 8 teams all three divisions.  Plus they wrestle for 3rd and 5th.  Individual charts are 16 per division.  Some kids wrestled up to 8 times during the extended weekend.  Can't say I heard anybody complaining though.

Was part of a club that had a team there three years in a row,  I don't know one kid that had issue with it.   It's a fantastic event and I love the setup.   The environment for team is electric, because of the added fans.  I love that teams wrestle through 3rd and 5th.

As I mentioned in another thread, to expose more (non-state qualifiers) to individual state I think is a big plus also.

[3wrestle]

Barou, do you know if they weigh-in just once for team and once for individual.

They weigh in for team &
They weighin in the evenings for individual they have a certain amt of time to make it after they finish wrestling that evening. So they must manage their weight thru the day. Where as we weigh in in the mornings.
Many years ago the team portion was scheduled through out the individual portion

[MarkK]

I would love to see it all on one weekend.  I'd love to see the added interest as a result

[Preparewrestlingcoach]

Just saw a tweet listing all the WIAA winter championships and dates and made me think about something.

Would the wrestling tournament series be better if the team state was the week before the individual state essentially swapping weekends?

Should we swap their order?  I would think for the majority the individual tournament is the pinnacle of the wrestling season.  Should that be last?

For the record, i would most prefer to copy the Minnesota system and have them both in the same weekend.

Would love to see them run it like Minnesota.  Not 100% but I'm not sure if the Kohl Center is big enough.

It is big enough. We would put eight mats down. Would limit media and cheerleader areas, but have the layout already. And we could then do both tournaments the same weekend.

I would have to strongly disagree with you guys. As outstanding as the Kohl Center is for spectators it is that disappointing for athletes. As a former wrestler, and now coach the Kohl Center does not serve as an adequate facility for Individual State itself, not to mention what adding team State would do. Individual State hosts 560 wrestlers. For those 560 wrestlers (40 per weight class) there is is maybe 200 square feet of warm up mat, and less than that as far as warm up space on the floor. All season kids are given a mat to warm up on or a hallway to pace back and forth and mental prepare themselves for matches..Then they show up for the biggest tournament of the year and this space is strictly limited at the Kohl Center.

-Now we are proposing we should add team state. Which would add benches for teams, cheerleaders, and managers which would add that many more people to the 1000+ that are already given floor passes. As a spectator sure this sounds great, but space wise this would be ridiculous to try and pull off in an arena that is not designed for wrestling tournaments...

[DarkKnight]

I like the current format, simply because it is what I grew up with and it works!

But if they want to try something new one year, I guess they can do that, and see how that works...

Unless there are so many complaints about the current format, I see no reason to change it

[MarkK]

Just saw a tweet listing all the WIAA winter championships and dates and made me think about something.

Would the wrestling tournament series be better if the team state was the week before the individual state essentially swapping weekends?

Should we swap their order?  I would think for the majority the individual tournament is the pinnacle of the wrestling season.  Should that be last?

For the record, i would most prefer to copy the Minnesota system and have them both in the same weekend.

Would love to see them run it like Minnesota.  Not 100% but I'm not sure if the Kohl Center is big enough.

It is big enough. We would put eight mats down. Would limit media and cheerleader areas, but have the layout already. And we could then do both tournaments the same weekend.

I would have to strongly disagree with you guys. As outstanding as the Kohl Center is for spectators it is that disappointing for athletes. As a former wrestler, and now coach the Kohl Center does not serve as an adequate facility for Individual State itself, not to mention what adding team State would do. Individual State hosts 560 wrestlers. For those 560 wrestlers (40 per weight class) there is is maybe 200 square feet of warm up mat, and less than that as far as warm up space on the floor. All season kids are given a mat to warm up on or a hallway to pace back and forth and mental prepare themselves for matches..Then they show up for the biggest tournament of the year and this space is strictly limited at the Kohl Center.

-Now we are proposing we should add team state. Which would add benches for teams, cheerleaders, and managers which would add that many more people to the 1000+ that are already given floor passes. As a spectator sure this sounds great, but space wise this would be ridiculous to try and pull off in an arena that is not designed for wrestling tournaments...

You might be right but I'd love to see an arena that was designed for wrestling host such a spectacle

[Grappler]

Preparewrestlingcoach i would disagree that there is not adequate warm up space in the kohl center for wrestlers at individual state...I was always able to find mat space to drill on and there is a nice long hallway to get your warm up taken care of...adding team state to the mix could make things more crowded but in my experience the kohl center worked just fine for me as an individual

[neutral]

I would be okay with all in one weekend - but, if so, why not stretch it into mid-day Sunday ... to space things out better?

As far as team before individual - it makes no sense to me to put 560 wrestlers on hold (without a match for close to 2 weeks) when they've been wrestling once or more per week for 3 months.

There's 560 wrestlers involved in individual state ... and 42 titles.  There's 224 wrestlers (plus strategic moves) involved in team state ... and 3 titles.

I am a huge proponent of TEAM - but I think that sequenced as it is is fairer to the vast majority of wrestlers.

[IJustLikeWrestling]

Last time I checked wrestling is still a TEAM sport. With that being said why would we put all the hype on INDIVIDUAL state? I've been taught my whole life, no matter what sport I was participating in, that it's all about the team and not yourself.

[woody53]

I would be okay with all in one weekend - but, if so, why not stretch it into mid-day Sunday ... to space things out better?

As far as team before individual - it makes no sense to me to put 560 wrestlers on hold (without a match for close to 2 weeks) when they've been wrestling once or more per week for 3 months.

There's 560 wrestlers involved in individual state ... and 42 titles.  There's 224 wrestlers (plus strategic moves) involved in team state ... and 3 titles.

I am a huge proponent of TEAM - but I think that sequenced as it is is fairer to the vast majority of wrestlers.

You need to remember that we are dealing with a UW Facility, so there is a limited time that we can have the Kohl Center.

[neutral]

Last time I checked wrestling is still a TEAM sport. With that being said why would we put all the hype on INDIVIDUAL state? I've been taught my whole life, no matter what sport I was participating in, that it's all about the team and not yourself.

Thanks for the enlightenment.

Wrestling is both a team and individual sport - but unlike other team & individual sports (track, gymnastics, swimming, etc. - whose individual champions are decided within the multiple participant events that comprise their team competitions) ... individual wrestling championships must be conducted in a separate event ... the state individual championships. They must come before, with, or after the team championships - unless you're saying we shouldn't have them at all.

I'm just saying that - if we're going to conduct both ... it's fairest for the most participants for the individual tournament to preceed or coincide with the team tournament.

[paintortureagony]

Have Team State before Individual State:

Wednesday- Team- have all 3 divisions semi finals Wednesday Night
Thursday- Individual- start earlier with the 1st round of the tourney, hopefully be done with all divisions 1st round by 5 pm.
              Team- 7:00 have the Team State finals for all 3 divisions.  Everybody is in town Thursday, so I'm sure most fans of wrestling would love to see team state, it could be a packed house just like Individual Finals.
Friday- Since Team State is done, continue Individual State like it is done now with 2nd & 3rd rounds in morning/afternoon.  Semi Finals on Friday Night.
Saturday- Placing rounds in the morning,  State Finals on Saturday Night.

This means 3 Great nights in a row of Great wrestling (Team State Finals, Semi Finals, and Individual Finals)

Also, I believe not starting at 106 every year for the Individual Finals would be a great idea, to keep everybody in the building throughout all 14 weight classes

[shouldvewrestled]

Have Team State before Individual State:

Wednesday- Team- have all 3 divisions semi finals Wednesday Night
Thursday- Individual- start earlier with the 1st round of the tourney, hopefully be done with all divisions 1st round by 5 pm.
              Team- 7:00 have the Team State finals for all 3 divisions.  Everybody is in town Thursday, so I'm sure most fans of wrestling would love to see team state, it could be a packed house just like Individual Finals.
Friday- Since Team State is done, continue Individual State like it is done now with 2nd & 3rd rounds in morning/afternoon.  Semi Finals on Friday Night.
Saturday- Placing rounds in the morning,  State Finals on Saturday Night.

This means 3 Great nights in a row of Great wrestling (Team State Finals, Semi Finals, and Individual Finals)

Also, I believe not starting at 106 every year for the Individual Finals would be a great idea, to keep everybody in the building throughout all 14 weight classes

Logistically this works but that is basically a half a week of school off for many students at one time.  Academics still should come first. Though I could see WIAA going for this if coaches and ADs would agree to it.

[woody53]

We could do it in three days with eight mats at the Kohl Center.