Wisconsin Wrestling Challenge Series 2015

WINfan · January 12, 2015, 12:51:16 PM

I agree, but maybe their could be some type of Line you cant cross. For example, Did that wrestler place top 12 at a christmas tournament. Sectional Qualifier from the year before.

Just to be clear, Im not trying to focus on all the negatives here. I am 100% in support of whats going on with the challenge series and think the organizers have done a great job with it. I think its a great thing for J.V. wrestlers and like you said might be next years state champion. I remember when Brian Barbiaux from Luxemburg was on J.V. his freshman year because he was behind Eric Metzler. I think he won state the following three seasons.

crossface21 · January 12, 2015, 01:03:47 PM

You start putting all these criteria and rules on who can and can't wrestle because of past and future competition, this Challenge Series is going to die pretty quickly or not be attended by many schools. There's no perfect way to do it. I think you just have to hope that coaches use their discretion and to the responsible thing. I bet there will be quite a few kids wrestling Regionals and some even in Sectionals that were part of the Challenge Series and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Too many things can happen between now and the end of the season. We want full teams at the Regionals and just because a kid wrestled in a JV, Sub-varsity, whatever you wanna call it tournament shouldn't disqualify him from future tournaments.

MNbadger · January 12, 2015, 01:10:12 PM

Some useful information:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BPc7OtJfPPJiPVK6vxozt4pzHtmrw7TDFfkI3wPCqjg/edit?usp=sharing

https://sites.google.com/site/mn9gwl/

I will find our conference JV championship eligibility criteria and post it sometime soon.

The criteria for this league is simply 9th grade and under. You can have varsity wrestlers competing in this.

MantyWrestler · January 12, 2015, 02:29:36 PM

I agree with what a lot on here have mentioned. I don't want to make wrestlers shy away fearing they would be ineligible but I did see a couple names on the list of place winners and these are sectional qualifiers who were close to making it to state, coming back from injury.

To me, this is not the place to get them matches. I know they need mat time but there are plenty of JV tournaments out there to get them matches without using this tournament. Now, there are several spots that will not be filled because of this and at least 2 young men missed out on a chance to go the the WWCA state meet.

I feel this even has created 2 state championships here in the state. Varsity and JV. You should not be able to compete in both. Maybe my idea is not the answer but we must think about this and, I hope, not let that type of thing continue. Not fair to the true sub varsity.

Rush66 · January 12, 2015, 02:30:57 PM

I think this is a great thing for kids. The thing is you are all talking about putting limits on kids being able to compete in it. This is for the kids so why not let the kids compete. Example our school is very small (250 kids) and we only have 6 guys on the team. 3 of those 6 should not be on varsity but are because we do not have the numbers. Now with your stipulations our team must choose between having those 3 on varsity for a chance at beating a team, or saving them for JV so they can experience some success. Those kids deserve to participate in both. Now if a school has plenty of guys to fill a Varsity and JV team then ya they should not be allowed to compete in both, but you are hurting the small schools by limiting who can compete. It should be left up to the coach. He is the only person that knows if a kid is good enough to only be on varsity or if they are just on varsity because of low numbers. This is just my opinion.

DocWrestling · January 12, 2015, 02:34:35 PM

Typical fans and parents!!!!!!! Everyone is simply focused on who is going to win or who is not. The whole point seems to be to give JV type wrestlers a different type of venue/format to wrestle in that will excite them, keep them in the sport, motivate them, and prepare them for varsity. Really the person that wins the whole thing is not going to get a much different experience than those that did not qualify.

I am pretty sure the coaches association did not do this so they can see who the best JV wrestler is out there. Some of you sound like you want JV rankings.

I personally would love to see them take another step and add the team component. The top scoring team from each regional (one wrestler per weight class- make only the matches from quarterfinals to finals as scoring bouts to even out different bracket sizes) should advance to a dual format state tourney just like the varsity guys. Reward these teams with quality exciting duals. Only wrestlers that competed in the challenge are eligible for the duals.

aarons23 · January 12, 2015, 02:38:47 PM

Quote from: Rush66 on January 12, 2015, 02:30:57 PM
I think this is a great thing for kids. The thing is you are all talking about putting limits on kids being able to compete in it. This is for the kids so why not let the kids compete. Example our school is very small (250 kids) and we only have 6 guys on the team. 3 of those 6 should not be on varsity but are because we do not have the numbers. Now with your stipulations our team must choose between having those 3 on varsity for a chance at beating a team, or saving them for JV so they can experience some success. Those kids deserve to participate in both. Now if a school has plenty of guys to fill a Varsity and JV team then ya they should not be allowed to compete in both, but you are hurting the small schools by limiting who can compete. It should be left up to the coach. He is the only person that knows if a kid is good enough to only be on varsity or if they are just on varsity because of low numbers. This is just my opinion.

You shouldn't be allowed to compete in both..... Does it not seem fair to your situation.....possibly. But your guys are getting varsity experience. Without a rule the lines will be crossed.... And that will take away from the intent of this tournament and will take away from the wrestlers it was intended for. Jmo!

foose4 · January 12, 2015, 04:29:37 PM

Hard to make a rule for a tournament we have no control over - the WIAA Tournament Series.

The WWCA can only control the Challenge Series and that is before the Regionals/Sectionals, etc.

So again, unless the WIAA puts out a rule (which they won't) nothing can be done about it as the Challenge Series is before the State Series so the Rule has to be in place on the SECOND TOURNAMENT which it won't be.

If the Challenge Series makes a rule "You can't compete in WIAA Individual State Series if you enter here".....who is going to enforce that rule? Nobody

Let's quit complaining about who wrestled in it and just be happy the coaches association took the initiative to do something GREAT for kids that aren't wrestling Varsity due to better wrestler over them or for kids that are on Varsity but outmatched get a shot to wrestle kids they can compete better with.

imnofish · January 12, 2015, 04:43:28 PM

I can see a lot of support for this event, as well as interest in making it the best it can be. Simplicity just might be the best course of action, though. Lots of different ideas expressed here, each with their own advantages and disadvantages. At least we're coming together to actually do something positive for sub-varsity wrestlers and the sport in general. Keeping that mission foremost should provide appropriate guidance in future manifestations of this ideal.

aarons23 · January 12, 2015, 04:49:15 PM

I think the idea of " just don't worry about it" is what will kill an event like this. Like any great idea once put into action there are always things that can be improved to make it better. I have already heard one coach say he doesn't know if he will support it next year because it should have been a JV only tournament. No there can not be any rules denying entrance into the WIAA tourney but the WWCA certainly can put stipulations on who can compete based on prior results. Setting a max number of varsity matches wrestled could be one, requiring at least one JV tournament prior to challenge series could be another, no one who places in top 8 or 12 in any varsity tournament that year or prior years could make them ineligible. If coaches want or need to get their varsity wrestler more experience this is not the place....take them to a lower level varsity tournament.

woody53 · January 12, 2015, 06:09:18 PM

As an outsider who has no horse in this race now, this is one of the best ideas our Coaches Association has backed. Another opportunity for wrestlers. Is it perfect? No. What tournament series is for everyone. This year will be my 40th State Wrestling Tournament I have worked. Everyone knows my whole agenda is about opportunity. Whether it be wrestlebacks or double elimination. All about another opportunity for a wrestler. As Administrators of tournaments, that is the best thing we can give our sport, and our athletes. Opportunity.

imnofish · January 12, 2015, 07:29:04 PM

Quote from: woody53 on January 12, 2015, 06:09:18 PM
As an outsider who has no horse in this race now, this is one of the best ideas our Coaches Association has backed. Another opportunity for wrestlers. Is it perfect? No. What tournament series is for everyone. This year will be my 40th State Wrestling Tournament I have worked. Everyone knows my whole agenda is about opportunity. Whether it be wrestlebacks or double elimination. All about another opportunity for a wrestler. As Administrators of tournaments, that is the best thing we can give our sport, and our athletes. Opportunity.

+ 1,000,000...

PCA · January 12, 2015, 07:38:21 PM

We just have to remember this a work in progress. I think it is a great event and are somethings we can change to make it even better. If we can give some good suggestions then we can get those changes made to benefit the JV wrestlers.

imnofish · January 12, 2015, 07:41:21 PM

Well-stated and very PC, PCA.

hasbeen · January 12, 2015, 09:06:00 PM

I just don't see how the rules on who was "eligible" as stated were that difficult to understand. Each coach knows who are varsity and non varsity kids on their roster. If you plan on him being in the line up at regionals then he is a varsity wrestler. Just because he may have missed an earlier tournament or you purposely held him out of a tough holiday tournament he is still a varsity wrestler.