Space is limited
Really?
I don
QuoteSpace is limited
Really?
I don
I grew up in the late 60's, 70's and 80's and don't remember such a thing. There was just a difference between what was considered evidence and what was considered faith. Some people have difficulty separating the two, though.
QuotePosted by: bigG
Insert Quote
I grew up in the late 60's, 70's and 80's and don't remember such a thing. There was just a difference between what was considered evidence and what was considered faith. Some people have difficulty separating the two, though
You don
No, but just as the billion year old galaxy idea takes some faith, so does faith in a superntaural being (s). I don't know what, if any evidence exists that the universe is so old. I do know that there are very distinct examples of animals evolving per the fossil record and that there are evidentiary examples of things that conflict with the Bible and other religous books. ASorry, I must have gone to a bad school, or just wasn't listening when the teacher referred to anyone who didn't belive that stuff "religious nuts." Sounds like you might feel a little uncomfortable in your faith.
Oh, okay. Pardon my quoting you. maybe you could return the favor by not getting into your issues with a successful attempt at humor by Kjohnson.
Like the deep thought, though. Keep digging on science and professing your faith as fact, man. Now you can some up with a Biblical quote to prove how wrong science is, or has been. Science makes mistakes. It least it can admit to them.
Good food for thought, Kjohn. :)
Quote from: bigG on March 04, 2013, 02:36:20 PM
Oh, okay. Pardon my quoting you. maybe you could return the favor by not getting into your issues with a successful attempt at humor by Kjohnson.
Like the deep thought, though. Keep digging on science and professing your faith as fact, man. Now you can some up with a Biblical quote to prove how wrong science is, or has been. Science makes mistakes. It least it can admit to them.
Good food for thought, Kjohn. :)
BigG, I don't have time for this (lol).I was just trying to have some fun. The deepest thoughts I get is "how high is up?"
QuoteOh, okay. Pardon my quoting you.
I have no issues with the quote but I
My fault, I should have said "scientists." I think you could have figured that out. My point was your straw man per your quote. Maybe you heard an unfeeling teacher say such a thing. I don't know. I wasn't attacking you nor your religion. Just that you paint the picture of science supporting one idea that may have been accepted by many, then, ask why he would conclude as he did. Maybe he has faith in carbon-dating. You conclude that science was wrong, and now it is right?
Guess I'm asking what your point was, here. Glad you dig science. I meant no offense and ad hominem usually covers an attack per the facts regarding the attacked. If I was getting at you per what I saw as your religiousity coming through, I apologize. I like your observation that science now seems to jibe with a beginning.
Wha.......what the inappropriate term06 is going on in here?
One person start a thread that's supposed to be funny by talking about things people say that are inaccurate and we get what sounds like the rantings of someone who's just been CHOMPING at the bit to get into some deep ridiculous argument about nothing.
LITERALLY NOTHING!
Ok, that's one of those things that annoys the heck out of me.
My cousin will use literally constantly. She just said that the freeway was "literally a parking lot." NO..NO IT WAS NOT! There was traffic because people were driving slow!
Anyway....back to this science and faith stuff....
Nothing is the source of everything per the Tao te Ching. :D
BigG,
I have read many of your posts and consider you one of the most logical and intelligent people on this forum. It was not my intent to create the straw man that you perceived. Science changes with the discovery of new evidence
I didn't know the life of carbon and how it relates to dating. I am no scientist, nor scientologist. I just get a bit snappy when I feel someone is trying to prove science , in a small shell, the correctness of the Bible. I think the bible has more science than not on its side. I just don't wish to see small doses of such proof make it "truth."
I don't know how the Tao te Ching could be a straw man argument. Hard to debate such things. Just a natural philosophy, IMHO.
Sad to think life is centered in nothing. But, from nothing, God supposedly created the earth and us. It's when you name "God" or someone else as the creator and propose his wishes, IMO, humans run into difficult situations. Just my take. We're good. Good to be nothing. For me, at least.
Maybe I get a bit defensive of the religious because I hate to hear "religious nuts"; especially when I hear it used to describe a brilliant young mind who happens to have deeply seeded beliefs. That's on me. I also dislike when I hear someone I feel is painting themselves a victim for their beliefs. Happens much less frequently than our current "victim" state would have us believe.
We're clear, I think. 8)
With that I'd like to throw out another goofy thing people say. "Hindsight is 20/20." Anyone who's worked in law enforcement knows this is quite NOT true. If it were just recollection of the facts, it would be. Throw in experience and bias, time and such, and hindsight isn't close to 20/20. That coming from a guy who wears thick glasses. :) My present isn't 20/20.
I hate the tediousness of cutting and pasting so I
I avoid the whole scientology thing, so I can't call you "scientological" or not.
I do find it odd when scientists attack people in similar fashion to clerics of the church in the past.
I also see a lot of quasi-science attempt to prove a point instead of actually learning something. I'm afraid this is becoming more common as time goes on; just as people trying to verify their religion per the book into which its written. That's begging the question.
Thank you for clarifying the scientology comment. I had no idea how it applied within the context of the conversation.
As I understand it
The Bible is amazing, as are many other books of faith and observable nature (that's why I referenced the Tao). I'm not saying your arguments regarding science and Bible are begging the question per se. They are creating parallels and correlations. Good stuff. The idea that the Bible is correct because it says it is is begging the question. It's taking for truth what is assumed in the first place.
I see quasi-science as you say, but to add that quasi science is that which deviated from the scientific process and focuses on proving something instead of learning from the process itself, and what it yields. Maybe I should refer to that as pseudo-science. Bad syntax on my part.
BigG,
Regarding:
I have faith in God, but not faith that the Bible is necessarily His word. The essence of nature is in things that can't be named.
In terms of faith, I have God. I just have trouble choosing one holy book over another. I chose none. It is interesting that the three major Western religions take truth in the Old testament (as Christians call it.) Good reading.
I fell if God made me, than he needn't put a book on this earth, as it would exclude some of His most important followers.
Regarding your statement
BigG stands for a James Brown reference to Gravity, a name I got while teaching in a Black neighborhood.
I meant,"I feel that if God made me..." My bad.
Jesus fulfilled 350 prophecies according to the New Testament, which is only considered Bible to Christians and, no doubt, a source of popularity for the Bible among Christians. Another reason for continuous circular arguments for Him being the Son of God. The probability only exists if you believe JC did those things. The Quran paints him as a prophet but the Son of God? That's a lot of BigG to hold water.
In the end it's about faith and belief in many things non-evidentiary. It's important to have a spiritual life for the sake of wellness.
Wrench in the gears to call the Bible "His book/word." Though many believe that, I only look for the lessons and I do tend to parallel them with others. Human to do so, me thinks.
If you believe those words are "His", I'd have to say you have the faith in the book. IMHO, it often distorts one from His more simplistic messages; by which we , as humans, have internalized. I wish I was as strong at the statistical side as you are. I'm envious, really. In terms of language, things don't always translate so well, and faith in the ability of people to convey such deep messages has to be strong. I have less faith in those sources. Then again, I read things that are translated from Chinese, Arabic, Sanskrit, among others, and am deeply moved. Then again, most of those don't claim to be word of God. I just worry that the creator would need such documents to bring His message when he is our essence and might leave out those illiterate, or untouched by His word. It's a quandary that I admit to having no solid answers; despite the words of the Bible.
The evolution of the Bible and Christianity is fascinating to say the least. I'd hate to eliminate the human part of the equation, though. Constantine basically chose the "best" story of resurrection from what was to be called Constantinople in Turkey. There wasn't agreement on many things in the scriptures and their meanings. It is faith that says it happened for a reason and came out true to God's word. Again faith is a good thing in terms of spiritual health.
I thought the WWJD thing a few years ago was a very worthwhile idea. Though I may not see him as the Son of God, I try to emulate his logic. Such simple logic seems to have withered over time. Even on here, I hear hate for the poor, painting them as parasitic rats, like Hitler did to Jews, I read posts that are driven by disdain more than any brotherly love (I'm not saying I'm not guilty) and a lack of forgiveness, that is the ultimate show of love for one's humankind. It's disturbing to say the least; leading me to think that many think they know God's intentions, desires for us, and that the person is doing God's work by such actions. The Old Testament is brutal at its nicest; while the New is a revelation to me, in terms of potential peace among people. That peace seems reserved to only those who believe both Old and New. I fins that circular and hypocritical; and , most importantly, contrary to the message of JC. Would He forgive me for not believing He is the Son. Would he , or God himself, judge me as less for not believing so? Hope not. In the words of the great one, Popeye, "I yam what I yam." I do trust that whatever you call my creator, He/She/It gave me the tools to do right in the end, and to remedy the many things I screw up.
I meant,"I feel that if God made me
I think you were correct with
I don't have a God, she has me. She didn't have a kid, either (to my knowledge). JK, of course. I guess the easiest way for me to say it, is that I believe in most Gods, and see the scriptures I've read from each as more inclusive than exclusive; just as I see an afterlife without the exclusivity painted by many a Christian. Many a faith has passed over planet earth. I'd be a little ignorant to say that one faith is correct and the others hogwash.
I don't think it a straw man at all to say that you're figuring of probability is based on events not necessarily based on evidence, but a book that claims itself as fact, and the word of God.
I never said God had no word on earth. I believe he has many, and not just the one you believe is His. It's the lessons I take from and the minutia that I avoid in the New and Old testaments, Quran, Torah, Poli Cannon, etc. I do separate my faith from one particular scripture. You don't. No sweat, we can still live in peace.
getting back to the topic
This is a question for anyone that coaches.
Have you ever coached a kid that wrestles a girl and while you are coaching you say something that may not be taken right because your wrestler is wrestling a girl. I mean normal lingo in a match but you might raise eyebrows since it is a girl?
Continued
In response to your most recent post...
Quote
I don't think it a straw man at all to say that you're figuring of probability is based on events not necessarily based on evidence,
Then you could calculate those that you believe are based on evidence.
Quotebut a book that claims itself as fact, and the word of God.
The Book does indeed claim to be the Word of God.
QuoteI do separate my faith from one particular scripture. You don't.
My faith is in the Word which includes "all" scripture.
Oh, so you're okay with the Q'uran, Torah, etc. Well, then we're good. I guess "scripture" to you only applies to the Christian sort. If not, then you can see the beauty in all "scripture." I see the good in most, even the Book of Mormon (dang interesting).
I don't believe any of the many miracles He supposedly performed are based on evidence. Nor do I think Mohammad got flight lifted by a dragon.
Not saying the bible is not his word; but that one must take into context those words as "His" word, IMHO, is not exclusive to the Bible, per se.
Quote
Posted on: Today at 06:56:22 AM
Posted by: bigG
Insert Quote
Oh, so you're okay with the Q'uran, Torah, etc. Well, then we're good. I guess "scripture" to you only applies to the Christian sort. If not, then you can see the beauty in all "scripture." I see the good in most, even the Book of Mormon (dang interesting).
I don't believe any of the many miracles He supposedly performed are based on evidence. Nor do I think Mohammad got flight lifted by a dragon.
Not saying the bible is not his word; but that one must take into context those words as "His" word, IMHO, is not exclusive to the Bible, per se.
I see your first sentence as assumptive, somewhat convoluted and it appears to be setting up another straw man fallacy or possibly a snare. I find that The Q'uran, also transliterated Qur'an, Koran, Al-Coran, Coran, Kuran, Quran, and Al-Qur dramatically conflicts with the Old Testament upon which you state that it was based. Okay is not a word I would use to describe my feelings or beliefs regarding the Quran. I have been caught in snares (figuratively speaking) in the past and I probably will be in the future but I rest assured (Romans 8:39).
Regarding the Torah: The word Torah has a range of meanings and since you didn
And also with you. I can't force myself into believing, wholeheartedly, translations of translations. Then to believe in handpicked history such as Constantine's choice of the resurrection story; as he had several "eyewitness" accounts from which to choose. Maybe it's the cop in me; but my faith in eyewitness accounts is low. Even lower when they took place so long ago and had to survive the filters of history.
You essentially choose which scripture to believe as he gives us free will. So why would those things that you believe be necessarily truth for me?
I can't force myself into believing.
I tried that and it didn
And also with you.
Again, you're using arguments from the Bible to justify it as truth.
You're also using the faith of certain police as evidence. Faith as evidence is scarier than eyewitness evidence.
I never said my beliefs, or scriptures, should be necessarily truth for you.
maybe God is testing the amazing abilities of logic he instilled in you to see if you'll have faith in him over some scripture that promises things He can't deliver. No one knows, thus we call it faith, not fact.
BigG
Your statements followed by a response:
Again, you're using arguments from the Bible to justify it as truth.
Where is the word entropy in the Bible? Where is Josephus in the Bible? Where is ShangDi in the Bible? Use your ability to read and reason. You know that this statement is false.
You're also using the faith of certain police as evidence. Faith as evidence is scarier than eyewitness evidence.
If the term
IMHO God needs no seeking. He is already found in me. I feel He is part of me. I feel He doesn't speak through words/scripture, but through the direction He gives me. When I screw up, it's a lesson. When I don't, it's a blessing. I think He has blessed me with the ability to use logic, pragmatism, etc., even to read. I also appreciate the free will he's given me to explore just who/what I think He is. I have no conclusion and feel it's part of my life to find out just who/what he is; and where He wishes I go and what He wishes me to do. I also try to act as I feel Jesus would in many situations, and conclude that he might not necessarily wish me to follow either testament but to seek him through life's journey and internalize the way he carried himself more than reading scriptures.
"The Tao is like a well:
used but never used up.
It is like the eternal void:
filled with infinite possibilities.
It is hidden but always present.
I don't know who gave birth to it.
It is older than God."
You think og God as eternal. Even you say, it starts with nothing. Even before God.
We join spokes together in a wheel,
but it is the center hole
that makes the wagon move.
We shape clay into a pot,
but it is the emptiness inside
that holds whatever we want.
We hammer wood for a house,
but it is the inner space
that makes it livable.
We work with being,
but non-being is what we use."
It's hard to accept nothing!
"Success is as dangerous as failure.
Hope is as hollow as fear.
What does it mean that success is as dangerous as failure?
Whether you go up the ladder or down it,
your position is shaky.
When you stand with your two feet on the ground,
you will always keep your balance.
What does it mean that hope is as hollow as fear?
Hope and fear are both phantoms
that arise from thinking of the self.
When we don't see the self as self,
what do we have to fear?
See the world as your self.
Have faith in the way things are.
Love the world as your self;
then you can care for all things."
I think when we worry about our fears (heaven or heck) we lose some things about ourselves; and we become selfish.
"Approach it and there is no beginning;
follow it and there is no end.
You can't know it, but you can be it,
at ease in your own life.
Just realize where you come from:
this is the essence of wisdom."
You think you come from a God. I feel that what we call God is little more than nothing. Not saying He is irrelevant, saying that He was necessary function of nothing. Again, hard for people to deal with the disorder that is nothing. Thus, God is born.
"Do you have the patience to wait
till your mud settles and the water is clear?
Can you remain unmoving
till the right action arises by itself?"
No, it's human to rush to answers. Can you wait?
I'll quote more when I have time. I was a relatively staunch Christian (three decades ago), until I read some things beyond the Bible and came to the realization that there was something before God... nothing. I may use the word "God" to give you some sort of perspective; but I do believe that before God, there was nothing. Get lost in the woods an enjoy the nothing out there. Those things which you think were created by God, I enjoy them, too. Reality, to me, is that those things may or may not have been created by God. But what preceded those things being, is non-being. So we justify God as being "everywhere." What we see as evidence is nothing. That which preceded God. Perhaps God made me. He was preceded by nothing, IMO. and it's the way of nature to be thus. Perhaps God made all nature. The being exists because of non-being, in the end.
I always preach that you can't prove a negative. You can't prove God doesn't exist or that Jesus didn't do all those great things. It would be easy to prove, scientifically, that Lao Tze didn't exist. Yet we have some words of profound effect that seem to proven time after time.
Probability proves...nothing. A system of logic doesn't prove nor disprove; just as your logic doesn't prove nor disprove JC, God, nor their supposed miracles. Nothing proves them. Nothing is the only proof.
I like Tao, not as a religious deal, nor a faith, but an impressive insight into the interworking of nature. What's more an introspective into what we have, and have had, before all else.
When I compare all, I love the humanitarian aspect of JC, the genius of Chalam Balam and Archimedes, the simplicity of the Tao, the humanitarianism of Buddhism, and the life-alignment of Hinduism. There are many more things I believe; but I've gone far enough for today.
Peace be with you.
Sorry for picking and choosing. I once thought I knew it all. The more I learn, the less I know.
Big G since you have quoted from Tao Te Ching 2, Tao Te Ching 11, Tao Te Ching 13 etc. would it be safe to say that you are a Taoist or do you prefer Daoist?
Disregard, I see that after I made this post you modified your initial post apparently adding a few other Gods that you believe in. Now you state "I love the humanitarian aspect of JC, the genius of Chalam Balam and Archimedes, the simplicity of the Tao, the humanitarianism of Buddhism, and the life-alignment of Hinduism". I suppose that if this were a debate that would be one way to make your case. It appears that this God of BigG is unique and the God of your very own construction.
Why do they need a book or books (Tao Te Ching, Chuang Tzu, The Heshang Gong and Daozang... add the rest I'm sure you'll say some don't)?
What outside sources have you used to determine that anything within Taoism (add Buddhism and the rest) is valid?
Feel free to list prophecies fulfilled and science stuff.
Lao-tze also stated (I
Quote from: chrisber on March 12, 2013, 11:05:43 PM
Big G since you have quoted from Tao Te Ching 2, Tao Te Ching 11, Tao Te Ching 13 etc. would it be safe to say that you are a Taoist or do you prefer Daoist?
Disregard, I see that after I made this post you modified your initial post apparently adding a few other Gods that you believe in. Now you state "I love the humanitarian aspect of JC, the genius of Chalam Balam and Archimedes, the simplicity of the Tao, the humanitarianism of Buddhism, and the life-alignment of Hinduism". I suppose that if this were a debate that would be one way to make your case. It appears that this God of BigG is unique and the God of your very own construction.
Why do they need a book or books (Tao Te Ching, Chuang Tzu, The Heshang Gong and Daozang... add the rest I'm sure you'll say some don't)?
What outside sources have you used to determine that anything within Taoism (add Buddhism and the rest) is valid?
Feel free to list prophecies fulfilled and science stuff.
Lao-tze also stated (I
QuoteAll seem to have earned/found peace.
I found peace but I didn
Me, too (BigG +1).
I like to learn more than I like to debate. You have listed several sources, people and writings which you
"I like to learn more than I like to debate."
Me, too. The debate is great. I can , in the end, only promise to keep thumpin' away at texts. Just don't want you t think I discount the Bible (old or new), because I think it's bull. I just can't take it as literal. I don't think the Tao doesn't have translations ( what you read is about fifth on my list; but what I saw as easiest for English speakers.) I'll reiterate that in terms of humanity, I refer to JC, most of the time, in terms of naturalism, Tao, in terms of justice, the Qu'ran, and in terms of mathematics, my heart goes to the Mayans. I have dedicated much time to understanding and teaching their wonderfully simplistic vigesimal system, though I'm still trying to figure out their logic with regard to exponents and the fluidity of functions. It's obvious there, per the Dresden codex, and the eclipse table. I still have much to learn.
The beauty is that you never run out of genius to admire. Nor can you run out of nothing. :)
You stated
I don't know enough about Glen Beck to know if our philosophies jibe or not.
Though I've heard of Ramanujan, I didn't know all that about him. Doggone interesting.
I don't really follow anyone in the political world. Dirty stuff, there. All wearing nice suits and ties; but dirty, IMHO. Then again, I don't know much about it.
I have read about Dr. Rawlins. Interesting experience. I'm fine with finding science and parallels with The Book. Did you see the show on discovery that proved the plagues to be entirely possible, scientifically. great stuff. I love things like that. It wasn't all hocus pocus folks trying to prove aliens hung with the Egyptians. Just evidentiary science. I'm not turned off to Christianity. Heck I might go back to believing The Book is the word of God. That would take a slew of doing. My faith in in JC, though not as a the son of God, but as a human who led by supreme example.
Step on in learning about the Mayan vigesimal system is in knowing that fancy word just means "base 20" as cardinal numbers are base 10, right. We go by tens, then add that magic zero(that which gives the mathematical ability involved with place value) at every ten . Try doing computations with Roman numerals, right? The zero that gives place value is everything in making computations by hand. the Mayans only used three symbols to represent numbers: stone (dot), stick(line) and shell (this is the conch shell, simply drawn). First, I should say that I like these choices, because the stone represents a value of 1, the stick-5, the shell-0.
.-1
..-2
...-3
__-5
so
.
___ is 6
..
___ is 7
...
___ 8
....
___ 9
___
___ 10
.
____
____ 11
___
___
___ 15
....
____
____
____ 19
Here we go, we've run out of room, and NOW we need the zero (I'll use a cap O to represent the conch shell)
.
O is 20
.
. 21
.
.. 22
________________________________________
.
____ is 25 ( you'll notice we go vertically from bottom to top. I always tell kids to tilt their heads to the right so left to right goes from top to bottom (big on top, smaller on bottom). The bigger numbers are always highest up, as they are on the left in our cardinals. I always say "go for a walk?" as my indicator that's what they should do. Then to get the right to left action we have with cardinal numbers. Notice the 20 level is on top, the ones- 19 below.) Now every dot on the 20 level is worth 20, and every stick 100. If I could I'd draw the 20 dot bigger and fatte,r so when I get to twenty five, it doesn't look like 6.
.
____ 25 I won't confuse it for six (below).
.
____ 6
Thus , thirty will look like.
.
____
____
Forty is next
..
O
Fifty
..
___
___
Sixty
...
O
Seventy
...
___
___
Let's go slow now.
71 is
...
.
___
___
61
...
.
51
..
.
___
___
41
..
.
80
....
O
81
....
.
91
....
.
___
___
100 (stick is x 5)
___
O
Let me show you the values
we go 10, 20, 30, etc.
Vigesimal means x 20
Level 5 (8000x20) every dot worth 160,000, every line worth 800,000
Level 4 (400 x20) every dot worth 8,000, every line worth 40,000
Level 3 (20 x20) every dot worth 400 every line worth 2,000
Level 2 (1x20) every dot is 20, every stick is 5x20 or 100
level 1 ones
so I always tell kids to remember this number 168,421, here's how you'd write it. 20 x 20 x20 x 20
. 160k
. 8k
. 400
. 20
. 1
Need more space for millions, you make a new level up 160kx20=3,200,000 per dot, 16,000,000 per line. You can see these numbers in action if you'll look up the Dresden Codex and go the eclipse table and you see the formulation for the prediction of eclipse. mind you there are certain transforms and theorems and the like that are represented by bizarre images as well.
I like the stone as one, it exists but shows no life. the stick had life, and the conch shell is only a shell and void of life, thus zero. Why by 20 instead of ten. The Mayans didn't wear shoes. :)
I hope I explained that okay. I gotta get ready for fondue heaven, bud. I'll check back when I get home or tomorrow morning.
Wow! Enjoy the fondue and take a day or two off... It may take me that long or longer to get a handle on "the Mayan vigesimal system".
QuoteHeck I might go back to believing The Book is the word of God.
BigG + Eternity
The soul is a malleable item. Instead of overthinking it, though, I prefer to let it all happen. That's the Taoist in me. :)
I do advise wrestlers not to overthink. Train hard so you don't have to. You train yourself to react correctly if you train correctly. So, when the match comes, you react.
QuoteI do advise wrestlers not to overthink. Train hard so you don't have to. You train yourself to react correctly if you train correctly. So, when the match comes, you react.
That sounds remarkably Biblical (Proverbs 22:6). Some might call it child abuse (I don't).
Sounds like training to win, to me.
People think I'm ticked at the conquistadors for burning the Mayan codices among many other priceless works. I am. I don't necessarily equate those men to good Christians; but much of their justification was carrying on their own Christian enlightenment. I would say it displayed quite the opposite and many a Christian thought they were wrong for doing it; even back in the day. Bernardino de Sahagun was a friar who reported what happened and showed a voice of repulsion to what the Conquistadors had done. Many Jesuits rightly spoke out against the slavery that was going on. I find the balance interesting and I see how that balance tends to balance things out over time. You see a lot of this in the Muslim spring, among other religious movements that involve politics and the religion they seem to contain, or don't.
As far as eternity, I think it not reserved just for Christians, rather is unavoidable per our nature; thus many religions see the life in rocks, soil, air, etc., which essentially have the past living in them.
I guess I just don't want it; nor do I wish to seek Him. He's easy enough to find without looking. In fact, he can't be found by looking. Through seeking to be more like Him, I feel I run into to Him regularly. Some Christians doth protest too much, me thinks.
QuotePosted by: bigG
Insert Quote
I guess I just don't want it; nor do I wish to seek Him. He's easy enough to find without looking. In fact, he can't be found by looking. Through seeking to be more like Him, I feel I run into to Him regularly. Some Christians doth protest too much, me thinks.
Aaawwe!! Don't feel bad Rope. I like your debate style. Fortunately my faith in your powers of judgement are nowhere near as strong as Chris's faith in his God. We were having a civil chat. Please don't ruin it with your one-tooth (lack of) style. There's always some Goat Roper out there who has nothing to say; but can't hush himself.
Do you have anything to add to the debate?
Goat Roper, I cannot accept your praise, Praise God! Your comments have tested me far more than BigG.
I have hesitated to answer your question and gave BigG some time to answer it himself (However, it seems that you wanted me to answer). It
Quote from: Goat Roper on March 22, 2013, 03:13:40 PM
I just question "g" when he refers to GOD as "She" and in another post as "He". Is he claiming GOD is both?
Do you think God has a sex or has sex?
I suppose you think Teletubbies do, too.
Nor do I believe hat God is masculine nor feminine, Chris. Mind you my argument with Quetzalcoatl has been one of differing between the kind that took that name and the God as is outlined by the Maya.
I believe God as spirit also, and can't put a fictional/non-fictional label on such accounts.
"yah, I wish I knew the Bible as much as chrisber. Unfortunately, I know as little as you do Cry."
I doubt most of us know what we wish we did; including Chrisber.
Stubborn as a mule, steadfast as a dog. I have strong faith. Sadly, more in people than books. A price I have paid. Perhaps where nothing ends, heaven begins. You can have some of my lunch, Goat. Never been hurtin' for food.
I don't claim God as both, I believe God is neither.
BigG after analyzing some of your discourse (as it appears on this forum), I have come to some understanding as to your overall belief system. Your beliefs appear similar to Taoists, Deists, Myans and Transcendentalists etc. of past ages (
I'll come clean at this point. I was lost and looking at a time. I felt I had not course. I spoke to one Jesuit in Ecuador, who, by chance, I had a breakfast with. We talked about small things. We talked about the middle. I was teetering on my existence. Finally he said the words I needed to hear : "God is love." Right he was. God is love. That's my only true belief, to this day. No books, no philosophy. God is love. Jesus was the perfect vehicle for that thought. Though I might not believe He was son of God. But God is love and Jesus took it to the physical. Took it to humanity, as did Lao Tzu, Mohammad, Siddhartha, etc. Even Gandhi. This is why I live for their words. The simple fact that may happiness rests in the hands of my brother(sister). Love has no gender, neither does God. this is the spirit in which I believe. Quote who you wish; God=Love. That's not to say anything beyond that is hate (like GW might say). Nope, God is Love. Do I have it in me to live by those three words? Hope so, but I'll always fall short.
1 John 4:8
2
It is finished (John 19:30) Τελέω !
I don't know about that last post.
I just got to know a lovely young gal (8th grader) from the outskirts of Oaxaca, Mexico. Being the resident Spanish speaker, and guidance counselor, it's my job to usher in such folks. What a blessing. Really. we have a very inviting school. I couldn't be more proud of my 8th graders, one of which is an absolute saint (you won't read about in the Bible) who came with me to this young woman's home, to invite her to our faire school. So, I take the one young lady who is fluent in Spanish, to greet the new kid (whose second language is Spanish ) and she hears the new kid debating with her mother (who I've known for several years) and says she doesn't know what the heck they're saying. The new kid (and her mom) speak Mixteco. She is a living piece of history. One of about 40,000 to speak the last dialect of the Maya. I'm acclimated to the language but can't speak fluently by any stretch.
It's been a labor of love, as I hope to one day be fluent in Mixteco. People here like to think "a Mexican is a Mexican." The difference between both these girls is unreal. One brought up in Guanajuato speaking pure Spanish, the other pure Maya and speaking both Mixteco and Spanish. I'm teaching her English while she teaches me Mixteco, and Spanish is our common denominator. Totally different from any language you ever heard. I'm enthralled. So, this girl comes to my school adamantly (one month from her mountain village near Oaxaca) close to the Guatemala border. Doesn't ewant to talk the first week. Court says she gotta be in school, my job to make sure someone looks out for her. Everyday, I have her in my office. She and I chat real well, now. Finally, she trusts me. She now tells me about what she misses, and just how odd the world here, seems. She misses taking her 6 goats up the mountain to graze, to get our of school and spend the late afternoons and evenings in the village center, looking at boys and giggling with her friends. She ate the same food everyday: black beans, rice, handmade tortillas, tamales, apples and oranges. So, I get her those things for lunch (if mom doesn't bring them). She hangs in my office.
I talk to her about religion and she says her religion is nature. I ask her to expand. I ask "do you believe in Jesus?" she says she does. I ask if she believes he is the son of God. She looks at me and says You are a son of God, like I'm a Daughter of God, just as Jesus is a son of God. I ask if she believes that God is everywhere. She says he is, in the rocks, animals, trees, etc. She says that those ARE the Gods. The things we can't communicate with but with a deeper vision if what life really is. I ask if she believes in only one God. She pauses, and says, "I believe in all the Gods, and accept all of them that exist." "The mountain is a God, so is the water. These are all things that we need." I think long and hard, and , hopefully, have a lot more time with this kid, and wonder if existence in the nature of this world doesn't make for Godliness. The one thing that really stands out is that she is much more open, and sees the Bible as an important book; but not the first nor last word; rather an instrument with which improve our treatment of God(s), and to enrich our souls. Perhaps not a concrete "this is right, the rest is wrong" sort of thing, but an opening to greater knowledge , peace, and forgiveness; oneness. I feel this is an element missing in the livers of many modern Christians. That said, I don't feel it was a mistake that she was cast into my midst. I hope I bless her as she has done me. I had to be the bad guy about insisting she be in school daily. She didn't like me for awhile. I felt bad knowing how out of place she was. I guess I didn't know just how out of place, as she didn't know how much I wanted her happiness. So, we meet and her deceased father now has set her in my world. I don't owe her or him; rather I just feel and know it's right that I'm where I am and she where she is. Perhaps the most Godly thing I think Christians could do is to embrace the Gods we think are myth and equate them to the Biblical and conclude that they are not necessarily putting on in front of the other, but combining beliefs to make for an eternal God.
Wish I could say the Bible is it. I can't. Too much to go with it that too many followers won't acknowledge. So, I'll float quietly along; not saying one is or isn't truth; but willing to accept the truth as I learn it to be so. I feel privileged. Born relatively poor raised boring, I wonder what I've done to get such a privilege. I might just be fortunate that instead of pursuing such privilege, I just let it happen. Either way, looks like I got a knew quasi-daughter. Another pain in the butt that will make me so much happier than if she never showed up to begin with. :) I'm lucky to be here. knucklehead counselor from Milwaukee, 8th grade girl from Mixteco Oaxaca. What are the chances we could even communicate. We do now, thank God.
He is risen!
Matthew 28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
Mark 16:6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.
Luke 24:1-12
John 2:22
From the other thread
I think all trees bear fruit. Just some less noticeable than others, and some less edible than others. Who would think that the nastiness that grows from cocoa could end up something as divine as chocolate. I think its' what you make of the fruit. Did JC use the dead tree for firewood? That's what I'd do, if I were JC.
I'm gonna get that young gal going on Google earth so she can take my little Spanish speakers on a tour of her town. I work on English with her when I get the chance. She'll learn...slo but sho.
I wish I could get into the Bible as you do. Maybe it's my short attention span that leads me back to the simplicity (and brevity) of the Tao.
Many great lessons in both, and most spiritual books out there.
Did JC use the dead tree for firewood?
Good question, I would use it as firewood however, the scripture doesn