Re: heroin

[wraslfan]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/25/us/fda-painkiller-controls/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Will thi do anything to lower the amount Dr's can prescribe?

[DrSnide]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/25/us/fda-painkiller-controls/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Will thi do anything to lower the amount Dr's can prescribe?

It may.  Doc may also make more money since its more office visits or it could lead to more heroin use if their prescriptions are taken away (or more drug seeking in ERs)but it may cut down on those that get addicted in the first place.

My thinking is decrease the frequency at the front end.  Maybe we don't need opioids to cope with every bump and bruise.  But culturally we seem to lack a certain amountnof pain tolerance to begin with.

[MNbadger]

Alcohol costs us 185 million/year socially.
Illicit drugs cost us 185 million/year socially.(this would be far less if they were not illegal).

[Todd]

Alcohol costs us 185 million/year socially.
Illicit drugs cost us 185 million/year socially.(this would be far less if they were not illegal).

If you're talking legalizing THC I'm on board but to legalize meth, herion or cocaine is just not something I can get on board with given the dangers of those drugs. 

[littleguy301]

Alcohol costs us 185 million/year socially.
Illicit drugs cost us 185 million/year socially.(this would be far less if they were not illegal).

If you're talking legalizing THC I'm on board but to legalize meth, herion or cocaine is just not something I can get on board with given the dangers of those drugs. 

I have to agree also with your statement Todd.

While there was a time in my life I would have embraced the legal THC and proudly smoked it in public. But those days are in the past and maybe even 3 decades ago. Man have kids sure changes ones thought train

Now as a more wiser guy, meth coke and the others scare me quite a bit. I feel my 23 year daughter is pretty set and I dont worry as much about that with her as I worry about my 9 year son.

But I see a bigger problem in the prescription drugs now. WOW I am out of date and what I have been seeing in the past few year with that scares me and I dont scare all that easly.

[DrSnide]

Alcohol costs us 185 million/year socially.
Illicit drugs cost us 185 million/year socially.(this would be far less if they were not illegal).

Not sure where you got your numbers but alcohol typically has a much higher "cost" than other drugs.  In large part due to it being legal and socially acceptable to more people. I work at a treatment center and I have to say we don't see that many people with just one addiction anymore.  Its usually two or more  (i.e. cannabis plus opioids or alcohol plus Xanax) there was a time you would have "just an alcoholic" but thats fading so I'm not sure the numbers such as this are as "clean" anymore.

  I'm all for legalizing canabis but lets no pretend there's not consequences to that.  Marijuana isn't as harmless as presented either.  I could tell you some horror stories there but I can say the same for alcohol also.

[Todd]

Alcohol costs us 185 million/year socially.
Illicit drugs cost us 185 million/year socially.(this would be far less if they were not illegal).

Not sure where you got your numbers but alcohol typically has a much higher "cost" than other drugs.  In large part due to it being legal and socially acceptable to more people. I work at a treatment center and I have to say we don't see that many people with just one addiction anymore.  Its usually two or more  (i.e. cannabis plus opioids or alcohol plus Xanax) there was a time you would have "just an alcoholic" but thats fading so I'm not sure the numbers such as this are as "clean" anymore.

  I'm all for legalizing canabis but lets no pretend there's not consequences to that.  Marijuana isn't as harmless as presented either.  I could tell you some horror stories there but I can say the same for alcohol also.

Yep Polysubstance abuse and dependency is on the rise.  I'm seeing it as well.  I agree that there are consequences to Alcohol but I would say that no more so than alcohol and it's probably safer to use for society, not the user.  You legalize THC and the violence around the illegality of it goes away.  I think people are way more violent on alcohol than THC.  So that's my arguement for legalization, it's no more dangerous than ETOH and I would say it's less given societal factors.  For the user yep, smoking is not good for you, it kills brain cells and driving under the influence is dangerous. 

For Meth, Cocain and Heroin you can't say the same about THC or ETOH.  You're not going to die from one single use of those drugs but for the other three you certainly can.  The addictive properties of M, C and H are off the charts compared to THC or ETOH.  You can have a beer and be fine, you can't just have a line or one shot or smoke one dose of meth and be ok. 

I put ETOH and THC in pretty much the same category and the others in dangerous class of narcotics.

[MNbadger]

The numbers were comparing alcohol to ALL other drugs combined.  I am fully aware of the greater damage alcohol does.  This was my point of bringing it up.  Heroin is nothing compared to alcohol. 

[MNbadger]

In addition, if the other drugs weren't illegal the comparative costs would be even less for the illicit drugs compared to alcohol.

[Todd]

The numbers were comparing alcohol to ALL other drugs combined.  I am fully aware of the greater damage alcohol does.  This was my point of bringing it up.  Heroin is nothing compared to alcohol. 

I'm not going to die or be severely impaired from having a Sam Adam's Cherry Wheat.  There is certainly no "safe" way to use heroin.

[DrSnide]

Alcohol costs us 185 million/year socially.
Illicit drugs cost us 185 million/year socially.(this would be far less if they were not illegal).

Not sure where you got your numbers but alcohol typically has a much higher "cost" than other drugs.  In large part due to it being legal and socially acceptable to more people. I work at a treatment center and I have to say we don't see that many people with just one addiction anymore.  Its usually two or more  (i.e. cannabis plus opioids or alcohol plus Xanax) there was a time you would have "just an alcoholic" but thats fading so I'm not sure the numbers such as this are as "clean" anymore.

  I'm all for legalizing canabis but lets no pretend there's not consequences to that.  Marijuana isn't as harmless as presented either.  I could tell you some horror stories there but I can say the same for alcohol also.

Yep Polysubstance abuse and dependency is on the rise.  I'm seeing it as well.  I agree that there are consequences to Alcohol but I would say that no more so than alcohol and it's probably safer to use for society, not the user.  You legalize THC and the violence around the illegality of it goes away.  I think people are way more violent on alcohol than THC.  So that's my arguement for legalization, it's no more dangerous than ETOH and I would say it's less given societal factors.  For the user yep, smoking is not good for you, it kills brain cells and driving under the influence is dangerous. 

For Meth, Cocain and Heroin you can't say the same about THC or ETOH.  You're not going to die from one single use of those drugs but for the other three you certainly can.  The addictive properties of M, C and H are off the charts compared to THC or ETOH.  You can have a beer and be fine, you can't just have a line or one shot or smoke one dose of meth and be ok. 

I put ETOH and THC in pretty much the same category and the others in dangerous class of narcotics.

If both alcohol and cannabis were legal and my kid said I'm going to do one in college and then quit when I graduate which one should I do I would probably tell him canabis but it would be close.

Alcohol has a higher "cost" for society because it is more available and more people use it.  For individuals, using heroin as a much, much greatern"cost" than alcohol

[DrSnide]

The numbers were comparing alcohol to ALL other drugs combined.  I am fully aware of the greater damage alcohol does.  This was my point of bringing it up.  Heroin is nothing compared to alcohol. 

I'm not going to die or be severely impaired from having a Sam Adam's Cherry Wheat.  There is certainly no "safe" way to use heroin.

Ironically, you won't die from Heroin withdraw (although you may wish you were dead) but you can from alcohol withdraw.  Which is why medicaid often won't pay for opioid detox since its not "medically necessary" like alcohol withdraw is.

[MNbadger]

"I'm not going to die or be severely impaired from having a Sam Adam's Cherry Wheat.  There is certainly no "safe" way to use heroin."


Simply not true.

There is a staggering difference between the two drugs as far as death, safety, social cost.  Alcohohol dwarfs heroin in all areas, period.

[dman]

"I'm not going to die or be severely impaired from having a Sam Adam's Cherry Wheat.  There is certainly no "safe" way to use heroin."


Simply not true.

There is a staggering difference between the two drugs as far as death, safety, social cost.  Alcohohol dwarfs heroin in all areas, period.

How is that not true??   

[DrSnide]

"I'm not going to die or be severely impaired from having a Sam Adam's Cherry Wheat.  There is certainly no "safe" way to use heroin."


Simply not true.

There is a staggering difference between the two drugs as far as death, safety, social cost.  Alcohohol dwarfs heroin in all areas, period.

If you are saying as a total cost or which is a more common problem, fine, you can make that argument.

If you are saying its better to use heroin than alcohol, that's just ridiculous.

I work with addiction at an AODA treatment center 4 days a week, I'm not just making this stuff up.  Let me ask it this way I said earlier if my son asked me if he should do marijuana or alcohol I would say cannabis (probably and obviously a hypothetical) but if you were asked the same thing about heroin or alcohol would you seriously say heroin?

and I just can't resist saying it.  We have the teacher who told us that only educators knew about education telling the psychologist who works in an AODA treatment center and the Masters level therapist who I'm betting is seeing plenty of addiction issues,  how wrong they are about heroin and alcohol.  Sorry, couldn't resist bring it up, it was just too easy.