Max wt that can be dropped from sat to sat???

[DocWrestling]

As in all things in life, the great majority of people are going to choose the easiest way which is seldom the healthiest way

[boowrestle]

Go back to making a kid make scratch wt and then certify for that wt,in order to get growth allowance.Growth allowance should be a reward for the kids that have been at a wt class during the season not be a end of the season gift to the kids that never could of made the scratch wt in the 1st place!

[Quack]

I like the 1/2 lb a day rule (and the 1.5% body weight in college). It really makes sense, and I argue that a lot of guys follow this rule in college, whether they know it or not. Not many high schoolers follow it because they don't really understand how to manage their weight yet - it takes a lot of time and guidance to do it correctly. You need time in the morning/afternoon/night to work out and subsequently eat properly. I don't think the time structure of most high schools allows for this to be feasible, versus the structure of college classes/life. This may be off topic, but this is what a typical scenario would look like in college:

-Go to bed at 133lbs.
-Wake up at 131lbs, put in 1lb of food/fluids before morning workout. Now at 132lbs.
-Workout - lose 4lbs. Now at 128lbs.
-Put in 4lbs of food/fluids. Back to 132lbs.
-Afternoon workout - lose 5lbs. Down to 127lbs.
-Put in 5lbs at dinner. Back to 132lbs.
-Light night workout - lose 2.5 lbs. Back to 128.5lbs
-Put in 4lbs of food/fluids, and I'm going to bed at 132.5lbs.

The ability to do this in a healthy manner requires a good routine, with quality foods and fluids being put into your body. The pounds lost at each workout will vary depending on the effort put in, as well as one's body weight. It's amazing how much weight one can lose when they are hydrated. You do this enough, and you really only have to be within 4-5lbs of your wrestling weight the morning of a competition. You get your hard workout in right before weigh ins, drop 4-5 lbs to get down to your wrestling weight, and put it back on with a quality meal. Thus your natural weight is really 4-5 lbs heavier (can be even 6-8 lbs for bigger guys), and you're making the weight in a healthy manner by exercising it off. It's not an easy thing to do, and you really have to vary your workouts during the morning and at night throughout the week to keep yourself entertained and not feeling like it's a chore (play basketball with some sweats on, whatever). I witnessed, coached and experienced too many kids in high school who just skipped meals as it came closer to weigh-ins, while upping their workouts. They were drained come weigh-in time, and then binged once they got off the scale. The current rule is in place to protect from that, and it's up to you as parents, coaches, teammates to encourage healthy weight management.

One thing missed here was the floating of weight over night (roughly 2 lb) now put the kid at 130.5 the next morning which now has him at a 2.5 loss in one day...not the 1/2 lb

[hammen]

The 24 hrs started and ended at going to bed, not waking up.

[stbird]

What a topic!  Having once been a drastic weight cutter, I'm not sure if most commenting on here know how extreme it can get.  Matside weigh ins would cure all the problems.  1/2 pound a day limit helps, but still is pretty much a joke.  How about this more realistic scenario.  Boy weighs in at let's say 120 pounds on Saturday morning.  By the time the boy goes to bed that night after wrestling and dinner he's at 130 pounds, eat more on Sunday and goes to bed at 135 pounds.  By the next Saturday he's down at 120.  Anybody thinks this isn't happening routinely just doesn't know.  99 percent of parents don't have a clue.  If they knew they'd be upset, especially mothers, but if the kids know that, they won't tell their parents the truth about what their weight is.  All the coaches want to know is if you are going to make weight.  In my years of wrestling I don't recall a coach ever watching me step on the scale except at weigh ins.  I think the weight certification helps a little bit, but giving parents the option to let their kids drop another weight class?  WTH is that?  Again, if we really want to solve the problem, mat side weigh ins is the way to go. 

[hammen]

What a topic!  Having once been a drastic weight cutter, I'm not sure if most commenting on here know how extreme it can get.  Matside weigh ins would cure all the problems.  1/2 pound a day limit helps, but still is pretty much a joke.  How about this more realistic scenario.  Boy weighs in at let's say 120 pounds on Saturday morning.  By the time the boy goes to bed that night after wrestling and dinner he's at 130 pounds, eat more on Sunday and goes to bed at 135 pounds.  By the next Saturday he's down at 120.  Anybody thinks this isn't happening routinely just doesn't know.  99 percent of parents don't have a clue.  If they knew they'd be upset, especially mothers, but if the kids know that, they won't tell their parents the truth about what their weight is.  All the coaches want to know is if you are going to make weight.  In my years of wrestling I don't recall a coach ever watching me step on the scale except at weigh ins.  I think the weight certification helps a little bit, but giving parents the option to let their kids drop another weight class?  WTH is that?  Again, if we really want to solve the problem, mat side weigh ins is the way to go. 

Thank you for listing some of the problems with weight cutting: delusional parents and coaches, and irresponsible kids. Mat side weigh ins isn't the only solution. Education and proper support from all parties for healthy weight management is a solid option. It just seems lots of people like taking her "easy" route and not doing it the proper way. Those things are easily noticed in college due to the level of competition, must less so in high school.

[Quack]

I wish some of you guy that really back the 1/2lb a day were big kids at one point in your life with a pretty high body fat percentage. It is nothing for the bigger kids to lose weight faster than the little guys that don't have much to lose. While Hammen's plan is a good one for a kid in good shape and a perfect world, it does not work well for the larger kids that take weight off faster, by simply becoming more active. I can tell you if I just cut myself back to the calories my Dr wants me to take in, without doing anymore than my normal work day I drop 10+lbs in a week. Been there, done that.... But by all means tell my Dr he doesn't know what he is talking about. It is also nice that he is talking from a College stand point. I don't know many high school kids that have the time or chance to work out 3 times a day like that. Let alone for a kid to drop 2.5-5lb 3 times a day. Not really a high school scenario. So yeah where it looks like this kid can eat and drink a ton, not all kids have that in reality.

I think the idea is a good one, and there is something that needs to be done to try and keep things in check, but I think the Cold, Hard .5lbs a day is not the answer up and down the weight classes.

[littleguy301]

What a topic!  Having once been a drastic weight cutter, I'm not sure if most commenting on here know how extreme it can get.  Matside weigh ins would cure all the problems.  1/2 pound a day limit helps, but still is pretty much a joke.  How about this more realistic scenario.  Boy weighs in at let's say 120 pounds on Saturday morning.  By the time the boy goes to bed that night after wrestling and dinner he's at 130 pounds, eat more on Sunday and goes to bed at 135 pounds.  By the next Saturday he's down at 120.  Anybody thinks this isn't happening routinely just doesn't know.  99 percent of parents don't have a clue.  If they knew they'd be upset, especially mothers, but if the kids know that, they won't tell their parents the truth about what their weight is.  All the coaches want to know is if you are going to make weight.  In my years of wrestling I don't recall a coach ever watching me step on the scale except at weigh ins.  I think the weight certification helps a little bit, but giving parents the option to let their kids drop another weight class?  WTH is that?  Again, if we really want to solve the problem, mat side weigh ins is the way to go. 

Thank you for listing some of the problems with weight cutting: delusional parents and coaches, and irresponsible kids. Mat side weigh ins isn't the only solution. Education and proper support from all parties for healthy weight management is a solid option. It just seems lots of people like taking her "easy" route and not doing it the proper way. Those things are easily noticed in college due to the level of competition, must less so in high school.

I think you hit the nail on the head, the problem is bigger than the half pound a day, it is more like what Hammen point out in his first sentence.

I do think you should base it off a % of body weight.

Like Quack says, big guys can lose more than a half pound a day and still be healthy.

[hammen]

Completely agree Quack. Not everyone can lose that much weight in a high school scenario. Being able to lose that much weight in a healthy manner is due to many factors, including not being able to train at a high level on a consistent basis, effort, and resources. College rooms give you all of those, although effort is really in your hands, unless you want to get beat on for the day. From my high school days, practice rooms were cold, filled with breaks, and varied in intensity based on your attitude and practice partner.

Its funny to think that it's not more typical in high school than college - the academic rigors I college are way more demanding, and thus take up much more time than high school. Also three workout days are always typical - it really depends on how your body feels. Plus you have Mom to make you all the food you desire in high school - cooking is a lot of work on your own

[mat time]

Go back to making a kid make scratch wt and then certify for that wt,in order to get growth allowance.Growth allowance should be a reward for the kids that have been at a wt class during the season not be a end of the season gift to the kids that never could of made the scratch wt in the 1st place!

+ 1000000000
I don't think u can make it any simpler than this.

[digimon]

I would prefer percentage or making scratch weight to receive the growth allowance pounds. A 132 State Champion had to make that 132 weight and get certified at some time in the season.

[stbird]

Hammen keeps talkinga about "doing it the right way".  That is great in a perfect world, but the problem is that kids are wrestling below a healthy weight, so it is impossible to get their in a healthy way.  When the fat is pretty much gone you have very few choices.  Lose hard earned muscle slowly, "the right way!", or put on the plastic suit, hop in the sauna and work off the same weight in 20 minutes and drink it back in 20 minutes after weigh ins. 

Matside weigh ins would "stop the madness" once and for all.  Other than that we are just wasting time even discussing it. 

[1Iota]

What a topic!  Having once been a drastic weight cutter, I'm not sure if most commenting on here know how extreme it can get.  Matside weigh ins would cure all the problems.  1/2 pound a day limit helps, but still is pretty much a joke.  How about this more realistic scenario.  Boy weighs in at let's say 120 pounds on Saturday morning.  By the time the boy goes to bed that night after wrestling and dinner he's at 130 pounds, eat more on Sunday and goes to bed at 135 pounds.  By the next Saturday he's down at 120.  Anybody thinks this isn't happening routinely just doesn't know.  99 percent of parents don't have a clue.  If they knew they'd be upset, especially mothers, but if the kids know that, they won't tell their parents the truth about what their weight is.  All the coaches want to know is if you are going to make weight.  In my years of wrestling I don't recall a coach ever watching me step on the scale except at weigh ins.  I think the weight certification helps a little bit, but giving parents the option to let their kids drop another weight class?  WTH is that?  Again, if we really want to solve the problem, mat side weigh ins is the way to go. 

I might repost this once a week jus to keep it on the forum.  A few years back the 106lb champion in D-1 was working a youth tournament the very next day.  He acknowledge to us that he weighed 124lbs that morning, not 12 hours removed from wrestling his championship match. 

[hammen]

Hammen keeps talkinga about "doing it the right way".  That is great in a perfect world, but the problem is that kids are wrestling below a healthy weight, so it is impossible to get their in a healthy way.  When the fat is pretty much gone you have very few choices.  Lose hard earned muscle slowly, "the right way!", or put on the plastic suit, hop in the sauna and work off the same weight in 20 minutes and drink it back in 20 minutes after weigh ins. 

Matside weigh ins would "stop the madness" once and for all.  Other than that we are just wasting time even discussing it. 

It's not impossible. If you can't get down there in a healthy manner, through hard work and discipline, then I question why the kid is wrestling at that weight. Whose decision is that? Stopping the madness might be to just change the culture in high school, by wrestling at healthy weights, not skipping meals, not withholding fluids from your body. It's common practice in college, why can't it be in high school?

[firemanscarry]

I'm not sure that rules will do as much good as vigilant oversight by the adults involved.  Our coaches watched us weigh in every night, and if they caught you before school in the morning they would make you weigh in then, too.  My drastic weight cuts were never during the season.  They started with about two weeks left of football.  During the season, I rarely got more than a couple pounds overweight between Saturday and Monday, and I was making some pretty big cuts overall.  I just didn't want to face a coach on Monday morning and explain to him how come I had gained eight pounds in two days.  They made us maintain pretty well during the season, and that probably kept us healthy.

I was wondering if anybody ever busted a 285 pounder for losing more than four pounds during the week.  I got that big for a while as an adult, and it wasn't unusual for me to change five or six pounds either way in a couple days without really making much effort.