WI Wt. Classes - (MN dropping weight classes)

[MNbadger]

We see things differently.  You are on the give everyone a trophy path.  I think philosophically kids want to know they earned it and want to work towards it.  If they don't then they are never going to survive in wrestling at all.

All the reasons I loved and took pride in wrestling are disappearing.  Hard work being the toughest practices of any sport.  One on one battles.  Pride of earning your spot as winning the wrestle-off the first time was better than almost all the rest of the victories.  Then working hard to maintain the spot and achieve higher goals.

Seems to me at the same time as all those disappear to supposedly try to increase numbers the numbers are going down.
"Pride of earning your spot as winning the wrestle-off the first time was better than almost all the rest of the victories.  Then working hard to maintain the spot and achieve higher goals."
Still the case today, always has been.
You know, we could add two weights below 106 and those State Champs are likely better than you and I were in high school.
Nothing is disappearing as you claim. 
Coincidence?

I am wearyof the "everyone gets a trophy" claim.  I listened to this as my kids went through sports and it is a made up thing. 
Wrestlers still work hard, likely harder than we ever did. 
"Pride of earning your spot as winning the wrestle-off the first time was better than almost all the rest of the victories.  Then working hard to maintain the spot and achieve higher goals."
Still the case today, always has been.
You know, we could add two weights below 106 and those State Champs are likely better than you and I were in high school.
Nothing is disappearing as you claim.  There might be fewer people wanting to to work hard enough to wrestle, but all sports are seeing this.

[bigoil]

What I really don't understand with the main stream posters is on one hand they are upset with so called opportunities lost, but on the other hand they are the first to want to take away the only opportunities some have.

Getting rid of any of the lower weights is just plain and simple as stupid as it gets!  Yep take away the only opportunity those kids get in high school sports.  How many 106lb kids are on the football field?  How many 106lb kids are standing on first base and hitting 250 feet bombs into right field.  Not too many opportunities for men's gymnastics in Wisconsin High schools.  I know lets get rid of the lower weights and make them managers.  Heck why not just let them clean some of your chalk boards!!

There is plenty of opportunities in high school sports for those big kids that they can excel at....  I get it..you all wanted those football players on the team right.  Some are exceptional athletes, but some are not and they end up just plugging a hole a light heavy.

As I stated before take the college weights and add 2, 3 or 4 below, but don't take opportunities away from someone just because they are small.

I wonder what Spencer Lee would be doing right now if all of you keyboard cowboys had your way.

By the way: No dogs in the fight anymore, but all of my boys were bigs!!

How many seniors are 106? Juniors?

Quite a few 106 # freshman play football on the freshman team.

I love the little guys, I think one of the upper weights could be culled like MN did, and for transparency purposes, that's where my son wrestled.

From the CDC (updated 2021):
5% of 14.5 year old males (freshman) weigh under 90 pounds.
10% of 14.5 year old males (freshman)weigh 95 pounds.
25% of 14.5 year old males (freshman) weigh 106 pounds.
10% of 15.5 year old males (sophomore) weigh 106 pounds.
5% of 16.5 year old males (juniors) weigh under 100 pounds.
Remember, this is examining 9-12 grade males.  If you include 7-8 th the numbers are even lower.  I believe allowing 7-8th graders makes our sport stronger and better in quality.
Some believe varsity sports are for upperclassmen.  Then yes, cut the lower weights.  I do not believe this.  Additionally, if we want to discourage underclassmen, we will only have a worse time with overall numbers.

The average senior male is 18+ in February.

[bulldog]

Gosh...this debate again...Okay. So the argument continues to be "less weight classes means a strong sport"? Or is it "we don't have enough athletes going out so let's reduce the weight classes so it appears we have a stronger sport"

Then there is all the talk about "back when"...I am old enough to remember one division in HS. Why not go back to that? I also remember a 98 lb weight class and we had 3 guys working for that spot...back when.

Back when we had basketball and wrestling to go out for. If you were a 5' stocky farm kid that threw bricks on the court you wrestled. Or you milked cows. Now there are so many more opportunities for HS kids in schools. So the challenge is recruitment. And sadly, I don't know how many HS programs are cultivating the youth and middle school programs. But this has all been said before...so let's cut weight classes. We can't even get matches up on trackwrestling or figure out how to livestream meets but it is the large number of weight classes that is the problem in Wisconsin Wrestling.

OH and the STATS game. So (according to the stats shared) 10% of 15.5 year old males (sophomore) weigh 106 pounds. Okay...there are 2,131,384 males age 15 in the US. So that means there are 213,000 possible 106 pound athletes in the US.

But now the argument is MN did it so Wisconsin should too? Okay...PA, NJ, IL, Ohio, Iowa, Texas, California (do I need to continue?) all have 14 weight classes. The NFHS has 14 weight classes. So what makes MN's decision right for Wisconsin?

But we want to talk about MN...okay, so why not middle school inclusion?

Good to hear MN cut a weight class...let's watch and see how the sport grows in MN in 5 years.

[crossface21]

I say increase to 18 weights and move to 5 divisions for both boys and girls. I mean, if we want to give more opportunities for State Qualifiers, Placers, and Champions, etc. just add more. I think we can really make a positive impact this way. 

[rankwizard]

I say increase to 18 weights and move to 5 divisions for both boys and girls. I mean, if we want to give more opportunities for State Qualifiers, Placers, and Champions, etc. just add more. I think we can really make a positive impact this way. 
[/quot

We see things differently.  You are on the give everyone a trophy path.  I think philosophically kids want to know they earned it and want to work towards it.  If they don't then they are never going to survive in wrestling at all.

All the reasons I loved and took pride in wrestling are disappearing.  Hard work being the toughest practices of any sport.  One on one battles.  Pride of earning your spot as winning the wrestle-off the first time was better than almost all the rest of the victories.  Then working hard to maintain the spot and achieve higher goals.

Seems to me at the same time as all those disappear to supposedly try to increase numbers the numbers are going down.
"Pride of earning your spot as winning the wrestle-off the first time was better than almost all the rest of the victories.  Then working hard to maintain the spot and achieve higher goals."
Still the case today, always has been.
You know, we could add two weights below 106 and those State Champs are likely better than you and I were in high school.
Nothing is disappearing as you claim. 
Coincidence?

I wearing of the "everyone gets a trophy" claim.  I listened to this as my kids went through sports and it is a made up thing. 
Wrestlers still work hard, likely harder than we ever did. 
"Pride of earning your spot as winning the wrestle-off the first time was better than almost all the rest of the victories.  Then working hard to maintain the spot and achieve higher goals."
Still the case today, always has been.
You know, we could add two weights below 106 and those State Champs are likely better than you and I were in high school.
Nothing is disappearing as you claim.  There might be fewer people wanting to to work hard enough to wrestle, but all sports are seeing this.

I agree with MNBadger. The weights are currently filled with studs at the top, I am not sure why DOCWrestling hates wrestling but it's not because there are 14 weights instead of 13 or 12.

[MNbadger]

I say increase to 18 weights and move to 5 divisions for both boys and girls. I mean, if we want to give more opportunities for State Qualifiers, Placers, and Champions, etc. just add more. I think we can really make a positive impact this way. 

I could see this as positive.
I know you are engaging in hyperbole so I will too.
Shall we go to 8 weights?
One division?

[bulldog]

I say increase to 18 weights and move to 5 divisions for both boys and girls. I mean, if we want to give more opportunities for State Qualifiers, Placers, and Champions, etc. just add more. I think we can really make a positive impact this way. 

I could see this as positive.
I know you are engaging in hyperbole so I will too.
Shall we go to 8 weights?
One division?

And don't separate out girls...8 weights, one division, no gender separation, eliminate JV competition (if you can't make varsity you ride the bench), cut the season down to just January and February, limit competition opportunities, stricter skinfold rules, mat side weigh-ins...

All these WILL make the sport stronger

[Vir Fortis]

What I really don't understand with the main stream posters is on one hand they are upset with so called opportunities lost, but on the other hand they are the first to want to take away the only opportunities some have.

Getting rid of any of the lower weights is just plain and simple as stupid as it gets!  Yep take away the only opportunity those kids get in high school sports.  How many 106lb kids are on the football field?  How many 106lb kids are standing on first base and hitting 250 feet bombs into right field.  Not too many opportunities for men's gymnastics in Wisconsin High schools.  I know lets get rid of the lower weights and make them managers.  Heck why not just let them clean some of your chalk boards!!

There is plenty of opportunities in high school sports for those big kids that they can excel at....  I get it..you all wanted those football players on the team right.  Some are exceptional athletes, but some are not and they end up just plugging a hole a light heavy.

As I stated before take the college weights and add 2, 3 or 4 below, but don't take opportunities away from someone just because they are small.

I wonder what Spencer Lee would be doing right now if all of you keyboard cowboys had your way.

By the way: No dogs in the fight anymore, but all of my boys were bigs!!

"Keyboard Cowboys?" You mean people expressing opinions? That this becomes so adversarial is kinda sad.

And Spencer Lee would have been fine. He was 49-0 in Penn at as 113 as a Freshmen and then 48-0 as a 120 the following year.

[panther93]

Forfeits are just a part of wrestling.  A team can have 20+ kids and still forfeit a weight.  My team had 26 this season and still have to forfeit 113 and sometimes 120 while I had good kids sitting JV at other weights. Just a fact of the sport. 

Looking at data and tournaments that we have been to the last two years 113 and 195 have been the two weights with the least amount of wrestlers.  106 has actually been almost full at every tournament and my 6 pounder has one forfeit this season. 

13 will be my vote at the end of the season.

With the mindset that forfeits are just part of it, what's your thought process behind 13 weights?  and will you vote for 13 weight classes without knowing what those 13 weight classes will be?

We know what the weight classes will be.  They have been set by the National Federation.  It is now up to the states to determine what they want to do.  I believe that the 13 number is best for the sport IMO.  Odd numbers make ties in duals clear cut.  It also takes a weight from the top and spreads out the weights in-between a little more.  I think this cleans up the middle and adjusts the weights based on data compiled by the National Federation. 

Is it perfect, far from it, but for many schools putting out 14 varsity wrestlers every year is a real challenge. I have been lucky to coach at a school that backs wrestling and consistently have 20-30 wrestlers out every year.  Even with those numbers it is hard to fill all of the weights with varsity kids. Many times we have JV kids that fill in those rolls and would be better served wrestling in the jv tournaments or duals but are forced into action. As a coach, I try to weigh the benefits of that wrestler participating in the varsity or JV event based on what they will get out of it. I also think this will make our tournament series more competitive and make the state tournament a much tougher event as a whole.  We need to remember that the WIAA already thinks we have too much representation at the state tournament in DII and DIII. Cutting a weight class may give us the leverage to follow Iowa (24 man brackets)and expand the brackets to 16 as they should be.

[littleguy301]

What I really don't understand with the main stream posters is on one hand they are upset with so called opportunities lost, but on the other hand they are the first to want to take away the only opportunities some have.

Getting rid of any of the lower weights is just plain and simple as stupid as it gets!  Yep take away the only opportunity those kids get in high school sports.  How many 106lb kids are on the football field?  How many 106lb kids are standing on first base and hitting 250 feet bombs into right field.  Not too many opportunities for men's gymnastics in Wisconsin High schools.  I know lets get rid of the lower weights and make them managers.  Heck why not just let them clean some of your chalk boards!!

There is plenty of opportunities in high school sports for those big kids that they can excel at....  I get it..you all wanted those football players on the team right.  Some are exceptional athletes, but some are not and they end up just plugging a hole a light heavy.

As I stated before take the college weights and add 2, 3 or 4 below, but don't take opportunities away from someone just because they are small.

I wonder what Spencer Lee would be doing right now if all of you keyboard cowboys had your way.

By the way: No dogs in the fight anymore, but all of my boys were bigs!!

How many seniors are 106? Juniors?

Quite a few 106 # freshman play football on the freshman team.

I love the little guys, I think one of the upper weights could be culled like MN did, and for transparency purposes, that's where my son wrestled.

From the CDC (updated 2021):
5% of 14.5 year old males (freshman) weigh under 90 pounds.
10% of 14.5 year old males (freshman)weigh 95 pounds.
25% of 14.5 year old males (freshman) weigh 106 pounds.
10% of 15.5 year old males (sophomore) weigh 106 pounds.
5% of 16.5 year old males (juniors) weigh under 100 pounds.
Remember, this is examining 9-12 grade males.  If you include 7-8 th the numbers are even lower.  I believe allowing 7-8th graders makes our sport stronger and better in quality.
Some believe varsity sports are for upperclassmen.  Then yes, cut the lower weights.  I do not believe this.  Additionally, if we want to discourage underclassmen, we will only have a worse time with overall numbers.

The average senior male is 18+ in February.

What I really don't understand with the main stream posters is on one hand they are upset with so called opportunities lost, but on the other hand they are the first to want to take away the only opportunities some have.

Getting rid of any of the lower weights is just plain and simple as stupid as it gets!  Yep take away the only opportunity those kids get in high school sports.  How many 106lb kids are on the football field?  How many 106lb kids are standing on first base and hitting 250 feet bombs into right field.  Not too many opportunities for men's gymnastics in Wisconsin High schools.  I know lets get rid of the lower weights and make them managers.  Heck why not just let them clean some of your chalk boards!!

There is plenty of opportunities in high school sports for those big kids that they can excel at....  I get it..you all wanted those football players on the team right.  Some are exceptional athletes, but some are not and they end up just plugging a hole a light heavy.

As I stated before take the college weights and add 2, 3 or 4 below, but don't take opportunities away from someone just because they are small.

I wonder what Spencer Lee would be doing right now if all of you keyboard cowboys had your way.

By the way: No dogs in the fight anymore, but all of my boys were bigs!!

How many seniors are 106? Juniors?

Quite a few 106 # freshman play football on the freshman team.

I love the little guys, I think one of the upper weights could be culled like MN did, and for transparency purposes, that's where my son wrestled.

From the CDC (updated 2021):
5% of 14.5 year old males (freshman) weigh under 90 pounds.
10% of 14.5 year old males (freshman)weigh 95 pounds.
25% of 14.5 year old males (freshman) weigh 106 pounds.
10% of 15.5 year old males (sophomore) weigh 106 pounds.
5% of 16.5 year old males (juniors) weigh under 100 pounds.
Remember, this is examining 9-12 grade males.  If you include 7-8 th the numbers are even lower.  I believe allowing 7-8th graders makes our sport stronger and better in quality.
Some believe varsity sports are for upperclassmen.  Then yes, cut the lower weights.  I do not believe this.  Additionally, if we want to discourage underclassmen, we will only have a worse time with overall numbers.

The average senior male is 18+ in February.

Ad 1 year to each grade level. l bet most freshmen are 15 easy. My son was one of the youngest boys in his class and he was still 15 by the time school year came to an end.

Data shows the 3 lightest weight classes are the most forfeited this past year.

Whether I agree with it or not, the powers to be may take it seriously is my point to make.

Does any other sport have a position that usually dominated by underclassmen?

Yes there are sports like track, golf, tennis, cross country and so on that kids can also compete if small. Wrestling isnt the only sport for that small freshmen to senior to be able to compete in. There are plenty.

250 foot bombs.......well guess what that stud 200 pounder that hits 250 foot bombs, has something in common with at that little freshmen....both are hopefully caught for an out. Though maybe some schools play on little league parks so.......

[Handles II]

If you are on here discussing what you feel the weight classes should be, you probably don't understand what Head Coaches will be voting on, which is the NFHS recommend weights for 14,13, or 12 weight classes. The WIAA won't deviate from those no matter what you wish.

[Ghetto]

If you are on here discussing what you feel the weight classes should be, you probably don't understand what Head Coaches will be voting on, which is the NFHS recommend weights for 14,13, or 12 weight classes. The WIAA won't deviate from those no matter what you wish.

Exactly. Here is what is in front of coaches to vote on.

The weight class choices for boys will be as follows:

12 – 108, 116, 124, 131, 138, 145, 152, 160, 170, 190, 215, 285

13 – 107, 114, 121, 127, 133, 139, 145, 152, 160, 172, 189, 215, 285

14 – 106, 113, 120, 126, 132, 138, 144, 150, 157, 165, 175, 190, 215, 285.

[hornbuckleb]

What I really don't understand with the main stream posters is on one hand they are upset with so called opportunities lost, but on the other hand they are the first to want to take away the only opportunities some have.

Getting rid of any of the lower weights is just plain and simple as stupid as it gets!  Yep take away the only opportunity those kids get in high school sports.  How many 106lb kids are on the football field?  How many 106lb kids are standing on first base and hitting 250 feet bombs into right field.  Not too many opportunities for men's gymnastics in Wisconsin High schools.  I know lets get rid of the lower weights and make them managers.  Heck why not just let them clean some of your chalk boards!!

There is plenty of opportunities in high school sports for those big kids that they can excel at....  I get it..you all wanted those football players on the team right.  Some are exceptional athletes, but some are not and they end up just plugging a hole a light heavy.

As I stated before take the college weights and add 2, 3 or 4 below, but don't take opportunities away from someone just because they are small.

I wonder what Spencer Lee would be doing right now if all of you keyboard cowboys had your way.

By the way: No dogs in the fight anymore, but all of my boys were bigs!!

"Keyboard Cowboys?" You mean people expressing opinions? That this becomes so adversarial is kinda sad.

And Spencer Lee would have been fine. He was 49-0 in Penn at as 113 as a Freshmen and then 48-0 as a 120 the following year.

As long as we are just expressing opinions, I will express another one.  Unfortunately wrestling has been and always will be their own worst enemy, and that's across the board every level and every age group.  The only time we work together to truly make the sport better is when we are on the Olympic chopping blocks.  We all believe it is the best sport ever created.  Ever try to explain why wrestling is so great to someone that understands nothing about the sport.  It's tough, I get excited, talk over myself, express so much passion, but in the end, they usually just nod and go on their way.

Girl's/Women's wrestling has put us back on the "mat."  Made the sport relevant to the outsiders.  Heck, since Girl's/Women's wrestling has gained in popularity we are content to let Greco crawl into a corner and die.  I love how many in this state worked their butts off to bring girl's wrestling into the spot light, and in a few weeks, many will be honored at the Kohl Center.

If you are truly a wrestling fan, I believe you need to support all levels, and all disciplines of the sport.  Here in Wisconsin, we are crazy youth supporters, really ecstatic about High School, like to watch the Badgers, and talk infrequently about the Olympic level athletes.

So now we want to exclude smaller freshman wrestlers from varsity competition.  If you do that, shouldn't you exclude the big freshman as well (Mirasola's, Hopke, Breske.)  Alex Deringer, Hunter Marko and Jens Lantz were all little freshman.

We have to many forfeits so now the only answer is to remove smaller weight classes.  Are we going to jump the gun in a few weeks .... and if there are any empty slots in the Girl's brackets, or if some of the Girl's there are not varsity worthy....are we reducing weight classes....I sure hope not!

Again, the college weights and adding 2, 3 or 4 supports consistency.  Consistency and support are what this sport deserves.

We preach that if you are willing to work hard it doesn't matter about your size, age, ethnicity or sex ... anything is achievable in this sport.

[DocWrestling]

My proposal for some sort of consistency would be 12 weight classes for duals.  Eliminate 106 and 220 and keep the rest the same.

At individual tournaments then we could just add back 106 and 220 and wrestle 14 weight classes.

The catch would be to make everything scratch weight.  No more growth allowance or additional pounds for consecutive days.  If you really care about the little guys you should be all for this.  You want to win the 106 state championship then weigh 106 on championship Saturday and not 111.

Go back to the 7% rule and not worry about descent plans

[bulldog]

Junior High Inclusion...